Author Topic: Prophecy  (Read 190911 times)

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Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1275 on: December 11, 2012, 12:05:23 AM »
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author=Molly link=topic=10395.msg146065#msg146065 date=1355176028]

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8 But all this is only the first of the birth pains, with more to come.

--Mat 24

And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall grow cold.

--Mat 24:12

 "People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, inhuman, implacable, slanderers, profligates, brutes, haters of good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, holding to the outward form of religion but denying its power. Avoid them!"-- (2 Tim 3:2-5)

9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.--Mat 24

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

--Mat 24

I would just as soon be a saint asleep in Christ waiting for my resurrection as opposed to one who must "endure". Anyone who desires to "endure" the above will find the conditions may be little different than a Nazi death camp.

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10 "Because you have obeyed my command to persevere, I will protect you from the great time of testing that will come upon the whole world to test those who belong to this world.
--Rev 3

Well, my opinion is "good luck" even to this endtime ecclesia, they will probably still get plenty of heat for all their endurance pains.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1276 on: December 11, 2012, 12:23:56 AM »
Here's the thing, though.

It's trials which keep us close to Christ and allow him to show us his mighty arm and how much he cares for us.  We learn to trust in him and depend on him.  We develop a close relationship with him under pressure.

  It's a strange thing that when everything is going well, people tend to forget God and think they don't need him
.
I don't know why that is, but it's unfortunate.



Consider it a great joy, my brothers, whenever you experience various trials,
Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

--James 1


"patience"
G5281
υπομονή
hupomonē
hoop-om-on-ay'
From G5278; cheerful (or hopeful) endurance, constancy: - enduring, patience, patient continuance (waiting).


17 You say, 'I am rich. I have everything I want. I don't need a thing!' And you don't realize that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked. 18 So I advise you to buy gold from me—gold that has been purified by fire. Then you will be rich. Also buy white garments from me so you will not be shamed by your nakedness, and ointment for your eyes so you will be able to see.  --Rev 3

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1277 on: December 11, 2012, 01:21:20 AM »
Speaking of 2Tim 3



thirteen and fourteen year old boys shoot young mother over a cigarette and post on facebook.


http://pittsburgh.cbslocal.com/2012/12/10/beaver-falls-woman-shot/

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1278 on: December 11, 2012, 02:34:49 AM »
.......just like the days of Noah[times so evil our heavenly Father even takes pause to this good/evil exercize

  set up.]  Night before last I was told.'It is painful up here,Sheila." I considered..then the scriptures about

  the whole creations groans for the manifestation of the sons of God..and how His Holy spirit grieves

  and Him being with all the creation and in His creation through these times.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1279 on: December 11, 2012, 03:34:21 AM »
Thank you so much for sharing that Sheila. It was a timely reminder for me.  :HeartThrob:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1280 on: December 11, 2012, 03:36:46 AM »
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author=Molly link=topic=10395.msg146068#msg146068 date=1355178236]

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It's trials which keep us close to Christ and allow him to show us his mighty arm and how much he cares for us.  We learn to trust in him and depend on him.  We develop a close relationship with him under pressure.

There were no atheists left aboard the Titanic by the time it went under the water into its' watery depths, that you can be sure of, a lot of soul searching going on during the short time the ship had left.

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  It's a strange thing that when everything is going well, people tend to forget God and think they don't need him. I don't know why that is, but it's unfortunate.

It's why God causes illnesses & all sorts of evil to fall upon all men & women alike, to keep them constantly reminded of their dependence on a higher power for all that which sustains life. Those who are the least mindful of these things will usually be the ones most distant from their creator, what was that parable about the "rich guy"?

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Consider it a great joy, my brothers, whenever you experience various trials, Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.
--James 1

I have a very personal opinion about this verse. The whole idea of considering it a great joy in experiencing trials, it sounds a bit like someone in a prison camp suffering Stockholm Syndrome. No thanks, I don't seek to have a "trying of my faith", I'll just settle for whatever miniscule reward comes to me for the least amount of pain possble, I'm not a glutton for punishment.


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17 You say, 'I am rich. I have everything I want. I don't need a thing!' And you don't realize that you are wretched and miserable and poor and blind and naked. 18 So I advise you to buy gold from me—gold that has been purified by fire. Then you will be rich. Also buy white garments from me so you will not be shamed by your nakedness, and ointment for your eyes so you will be able to see.  --Rev 3

For sure this end-time ecclesia will have a tough time of it. Glad I won't share being "purified by fire" that this ecclesia must endure during the great tribulation, three & one half years of the pure hell of Nazi death camps all over again, but I guess it's what God often needs to do to get the attention of those who are his.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1281 on: December 11, 2012, 06:09:41 AM »
The Lord says,


"I was ready to respond, but no one asked for help.
    I was ready to be found, but no one was looking for me.
I said, 'Here I am, here I am!'
    to a nation that did not call on my name.
2 All day long I opened my arms to a rebellious people.

    But they follow their own evil paths
    and their own crooked schemes.
3 All day long they insult me to my face
    by worshiping idols in their sacred gardens.
    They burn incense on pagan altars.

4 At night they go out among the graves,
    worshiping the dead.
They eat the flesh of pigs
    and make stews with other forbidden foods.
5 Yet they say to each other,
    'Don't come too close or you will defile me!
    I am holier than you!'
These people are a stench in my nostrils,
    an acrid smell that never goes away.
 

6 "Look, my decree is written out in front of me:
    I will not stand silent;
I will repay them in full!
    Yes, I will repay them—
7 both for their own sins
    and for those of their ancestors,"
    says the Lord.
"For they also burned incense on the mountains
    and insulted me on the hills.
    I will pay them back in full!
 

8 "But I will not destroy them all,"
    says the Lord.
"For just as good grapes are found among a cluster of bad ones
    (and someone will say, 'Don't throw them all away—
    some of those grapes are good!'),
so I will not destroy all Israel.
    For I still have true servants there.
9 I will preserve a remnant of the people of Israel
    and of Judah to possess my land.
Those I choose will inherit it,
    and my servants will live there.
10 The plain of Sharon will again be filled with flocks
    for my people who have searched for me,
    and the valley of Achor will be a place to pasture herds.
 

11 "But because the rest of you have forsaken the Lord
    and have forgotten his Temple,
and because you have prepared feasts to honor the god of Fate
    and have offered mixed wine to the god of Destiny,
12 now I will 'destine' you for the sword.
    All of you will bow down before the executioner.
For when I called, you did not answer.
    When I spoke, you did not listen.
You deliberately sinned—before my very eyes—
    and chose to do what you know I despise."
 

13 Therefore, this is what the Sovereign Lord says:
"My servants will eat,
    but you will starve.
My servants will drink,
    but you will be thirsty.
My servants will rejoice,
    but you will be sad and ashamed.
14 My servants will sing for joy,
    but you will cry in sorrow and despair.
15 Your name will be a curse word among my people,
    for the Sovereign Lord will destroy you
    and will call his true servants by another name.
16 All who invoke a blessing or take an oath
    will do so by the God of truth.
For I will put aside my anger
    and forget the evil of earlier days.
 

17 "Look! I am creating new heavens and a new earth,
    and no one will even think about the old ones anymore.
18 Be glad; rejoice forever in my creation!
    And look! I will create Jerusalem as a place of happiness.
    Her people will be a source of joy.
19 I will rejoice over Jerusalem
    and delight in my people.
And the sound of weeping and crying
    will be heard in it no more.
 

20 "No longer will babies die when only a few days old.
    No longer will adults die before they have lived a full life.
No longer will people be considered old at one hundred!
    Only the cursed will die that young!

21 In those days people will live in the houses they build
    and eat the fruit of their own vineyards.
22 Unlike the past, invaders will not take their houses
    and confiscate their vineyards.

For my people will live as long as trees,
    and my chosen ones will have time to enjoy their hard-won gains.
23 They will not work in vain,
    and their children will not be doomed to misfortune.
For they are people blessed by the Lord,
    and their children, too, will be blessed.
24 I will answer them before they even call to me.
    While they are still talking about their needs,
    I will go ahead and answer their prayers!
25 The wolf and the lamb will feed together.
    The lion will eat hay like a cow.
    But the snakes will eat dust.
In those days no one will be hurt or destroyed on my holy mountain.
    I, the Lord, have spoken!"


--Isaiah 65

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1282 on: December 11, 2012, 05:40:19 PM »
IMO, Putting preterists in a group and then defining them as ALL believing these things doesn't do them justice just as persons, just as ET'ers put universalists in a group and say what we believe? There are several forms of preterism and some people believe some of their tenets and some believe many. Few believe ALL.
Like ET and UR and ED, verses of scripture may be used to defend all three positions. :Peace2:

Yes, but we do know that two of the three positions are wrong because they cannot include ALL the scripture within their position. UR does that and is IMO a foundation doctrine, or elementary principle of the oracles of God (Hebrews 5:11-15 & 6:1-6).

Eschatology is a little different because it deals with events in play and prophesies not yet clearly defined. The only Preterists I feel are actually heretical are those who teach there is no physical resurrection, a teaching that rejects the foundation doctrine, or elementary principle, of the resurrection of the dead as taught by the jesus and the apostles.

Presently, there is not always a distinct line of demarcation of "Dispensation theology" & "Preterist theology". Most who believe they are in the pure Dispensation camp in fact carry a lot of holdover theology of Preterism, they just haven't figured it out. The RaptureReady site is a perfect example of this.

Dispensation theology is still an evolving concept, it's only about 200 years old, some are further along with it than others. The greatest achievement of Dispensation theology is throwing off many of the shackles of Replacement Theology, however many of those shackles still remain, as by example the notion that the first three chapters of Revelation is an historical account of ages of the Christian Church, however I expect that within a few decades even this error will be recognized by those in the Dispensation theology camp.

As for me, I'm way beyond where 95% of those in the Dispensation camp are, most of them do not believe in Universal Reconciliation that in ages yet future all will be saved, this is their greatest under-achievement to date.

« Last Edit: December 11, 2012, 06:06:48 PM by Paul L »

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1283 on: December 11, 2012, 07:23:11 PM »
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
--Mat 24

I Thes. 4:15 For this we are saying to you+ by the authority of the Master's Word,
that we who are alive and surviving to the Master's Presence,
 shall by no means surpass those who have
fallen asleep. 16 For the Master Himself will descend from heaven at a
shout of command by the voice of a Chief Messenger, and at a blowing
of the trumpet of God,
and the dead who are in union with the Anointed
One will first rise up. 17 Then after that, we who are alive and surviving,
will at the same time be seized away together with them into the air
among the clouds to meet the Master, and so we will always be together
with the Master. 18 Therefore, you must be continually encouraging one
another with these words!

Are you trying to equate the above two posts as being similar or dis-similar with regards to an event of Christ's coming to Earth?

The greatest dis-similarity is Matt 24 nowhere alludes to a resurrection, whereas 1Thess 4: 16-17 clearly does. In order to "rise up" to meet him "into the air" requires we also be changed in accordance with Apostle Paul's description of the resurrection in 1 Cor 15: 51-54.



29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:


30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.


31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

--Mat 24



So when all these things begin to happen, stand and look up, for your salvation is near!"  --Lk 21:28



51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

--1 Cor 15



7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

--Rev 10



The seventh angel sounded his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, which said: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will reign for ever and ever."

--Rev 11:15




13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
 
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
 
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
 
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

--1 Thess 4




29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
 
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
 
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

--Mat 24




24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
 
25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.
 
26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
 
27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

--Mark 13




so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

--Heb 9:28





All the same event.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYTQ6gpcuYA

 :dsunny:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1284 on: December 11, 2012, 08:36:19 PM »
Quote
author=micah7:9 link=topic=10395.msg146085#msg146085 date=1355246591]

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51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.--1 Cor 15

7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.--Rev 10

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
 
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
 
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
 
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
 
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
 
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.--1 Thess 4

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.--Mat 24

27 And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.--Mark 13

Quote
All the same event.

What "event" & when? The resurrection of saints spoken of by the Apostle Paul? If there is just one of these resurrections then it occurs  in accordance with Rev 20:5 :"But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection", doing the math, this is after the millennium is over, not before it.

Now what?




Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1285 on: December 11, 2012, 09:10:56 PM »
Paul,

I see two resurrections, one, which happens at the end of this age, of the dead in Christ [appropriately called the first resurrection], and one at the end of the millenium rule and reign of Christ and his saints.  Do you just see one resurrection?



4 Then I saw thrones, and the people sitting on them had been given the authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
 
5 This is the first resurrection. (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. For them the second death holds no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ and will reign with him a thousand years.

--Rev 20

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1286 on: December 12, 2012, 02:00:22 AM »
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author=Molly link=topic=10395.msg146088#msg146088 date=1355253056]

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I see two resurrections, one, which happens at the end of this age, of the dead in Christ [appropriately called the first resurrection], and one at the end of the millenium rule and reign of Christ and his saints.  Do you just see one resurrection?

Actually what I'm attempting to do is to get readers to factually absorb the words present within the texts of Mat 24 & Mark 13.

Within the text of the entirety of Matt 24 & especially highlighting verse 31 there is not one word about dead people coming back to life nor in Mark 13:27, only that a living remnant are being "gathered", a remnant of living people saved out of the Tribulation.

Then if I could get readers to think about the fact that the text is conspicuously absent of language about a "resurrection" of the dead, then maybe I could stir their curiosity as to why. I was intimating the possibility it's because the resurrection they hope for in Matt 24 & Mark 13 is absent from the text because the 1st resurrection is yet 1000 years beyond Matt 24 & Mark 13. Presently my challenge to them in light of Rev 20:5 is to prove this is not the case.


Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1287 on: December 12, 2012, 02:48:14 AM »
I *think*  this is a really good video with a lot of information.




Chrislam: One World Religion Emerging

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPZTmefDpuc

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1288 on: December 12, 2012, 03:17:21 AM »
Whenever a person believes the resurrections take place, it is clear from Rev 20:5 that there is 1000 years between them. The dead and the "rest of the dead".

They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

In Matthew 24:30,31...

30 "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

This appears to integrate with Paul's take on the relationship between the coming of the Lord and the resurrection.

1 Cor 15;51,52 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed—  in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed

1Cor 15:20-23 But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him

2 Thess 2:2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers and sisters, 2 not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by the teaching allegedly from us—whether by a prophecy or by word of mouth or by letter—asserting that the day of the Lord has already come.

1 Thess 4:14-17 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. According to the Lord's word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.

From the parrallel of these verses it seems that Paul saw the gathering at the coming of the Lord to involve a resurrection. IMO there is only one coming of the Lord. It is at the end of this age and commences the millenial reign. He comes "in the clouds", meaning, as I see it, "that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him". Paul is quite clear that the dead in Christ will rise first, and that we "who are alive and remain" will follow the dead in Christ and meet the Lord "in the air".

So what I see is Jesus returning immediatley after the tribulation of those days, at the last trumpet, surrounded by "ten thousands of ten thousands(see hebrews 12, myriads of angels and the spirits of righteous men made perfect). Those who are alive and remain follow immediately after. The "gathering of His elect" that Jesus speaks of is from "the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other".

All this is IMO the first resurrection of Rev 20:5. The "rest of the dead" will not rise until after the thousand years is over.

 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them.  The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

Notice the difference between "the four winds of the heavens" and "the four corners of the earth". Where the "elect" and Gog/Magog are gathered.

11 Then I saw a great white throne and Him who sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away. And there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.

Rev 2:14-16 for when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do the things in the law, these, although not having the law, are a law to themselves, who show the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and between themselves their thoughts accusing or else excusing them) in the day when God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ(Great White Throne), according to my gospel.

In My Opinion the first resurrection is for the overcomers in Christ-it is the resurrection of the reward of the righteous(Philippians 3:7-14). Everyone else follows after in the second resurrection and there are several categories of judgment in it which is the Great White throne judgment- for everyone who rises in the second resurrection, after the 1000 years are done when death and the grave and the sea give up their keep.

I realize all of this is figurative language to a great extent but I think there is some context that can be established through these verses. If "the dead in Christ rise first" and those who remain alive "follow after" and are "gathered together" to "meet the Lord in the air" and shal thus "ever be with the Lord"- then IMO the context of all these other things like the shout, the trumpet, the "clouds", the "gathering" are all speaking of the first resurrection at the beginning of the millenial reign.      Peace :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1289 on: December 12, 2012, 03:24:09 AM »
there is 1000 years between them. The dead and the "rest of the dead".

They had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

In Matthew 24:30,31...

30 "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven.

 :nod:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1290 on: December 12, 2012, 03:41:25 AM »
I *think*  this is a really good video with a lot of information.




Chrislam: One World Religion Emerging

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPZTmefDpuc

Can't see it on this computer, but found this;

Chrislam's Rick Warren Partnering With Mosques To Teach That God And Allah Are The Same
 
Rick Warren has decided to spend his time and wealth promoting the hybrid Chrislam religion.
RELATED STORY: Click here to read about Rick Warren's beginnings in Chrislam…
From WND: (OCREGISTER) — The Rev. Rick Warren, pastor of Saddleback Church in Lake Forest and one of America's most influential Christian leaders, has embarked on an effort to heal divisions between evangelical Christians and Muslims by partnering with Southern California mosques and proposing a set of theological principles that includes acknowledging that Christians and Muslims worship the same God.

The effort, informally dubbed King's Way, caps years of outreach between Warren and Muslims. Warren has broken Ramadan fasts at a Mission Viejo mosque, met Muslim leaders abroad and addressed 8,000 Muslims at a national convention in Washington D.C.
Saddleback worshippers have invited Muslims to Christmas dinner and played interfaith soccer at a picnic in Irvine attended by more than 300 people. (The game pitted pastors and imams against teens from both faiths. The teens won.)

The effort by a prominent Christian leader to bridge what polls show is a deep rift between Muslims and evangelical Christians culminated in December at a dinner at Saddleback attended by 300 Muslims and members of Saddleback's congregation. source – WND

From Stand Up For The Truth: This past Sunday, a major shift was announced by Pastor Rick Warren at his Saddleback Church in Orange County, California, that has many Christian leaders concerned. As Saddleback hosted its "celebration of Jesus (pbuh)," attended by a number of Muslim communities in Southern California, something theologically significant happened at the dinner portion of the event.

Only a select number of people were invited to the dinner. A document one year in the making was presented which encourages Christians and Muslims to "appreciate the similarities of our faiths." What does this mean? Is it simply a way to reach out a helping hand to the communities in Southern California, or is something more serious happening? source – Stand Up For The Truth
From Time: WASHINGTON — Defying some of his fellow conservative Christian critics, one of the most prominent religious leaders in the country told several thousand American Muslims on Saturday that "the two largest faiths on the planet" must work together to combat stereotypes and solve global problems. source – MSNBC

http://www.nowtheendbegins.com/blog/?p=8961
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1291 on: December 12, 2012, 03:56:59 AM »
Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God.

The only way to the Christian God is through Jesus Christ and obviously that is not true of  Allah,  the muslim god.  They consider Jesus a prophet of less status than Muhammed.

Rick Warren et al have been bought off by someone, IMO.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1292 on: December 12, 2012, 04:20:13 AM »
Quote from: eaglesway
In My Opinion the first resurrection is for the overcomers in Christ-it is the resurrection of the reward of the righteous(Philippians 3:7-14). Everyone else follows after in the second resurrection and there are several categories of judgment in it which is the Great White throne judgment- for everyone who rises in the second resurrection, after the 1000 years are done when death and the grave and the sea give up their keep.

I realize all of this is figurative language to a great extent but I think there is some context that can be established through these verses. If "the dead in Christ rise first" and those who remain alive "follow after" and are "gathered together" to "meet the Lord in the air" and shal thus "ever be with the Lord"- then IMO the context of all these other things like the shout, the trumpet, the "clouds", the "gathering" are all speaking of the first resurrection at the beginning of the millenial reign.      Peace :o)

I agree.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1293 on: December 12, 2012, 06:24:46 AM »
Christians and Muslims do not worship the same God.

The only way to the Christian God is through Jesus Christ and obviously that is not true of  Allah,  the muslim god.  They consider Jesus a prophet of less status than Muhammed.

Rick Warren et al have been bought off by someone, IMO.

IMO, that's why we have to be careful about clinging to and standing for sound doctrine.  "Deceivers will wax worse and worse..deceiving and being deceived".

A well-known minister said these things.  Even more than that, he's a believer in some form of universal salvation.

"..the operative idea here is that there is a right and wrong theology -- a right God and a wrong God. But this is an invalid premise. All versions of God are the same thing: A HUMAN INTERPRETATION OF THE UNIVERSAL CONSCIOUSNESS."

"God, however, is Spirit and cannot be confined exclusively to any particular religion including Christianity. He's not Jewish or Christian or Hindu or Buddhist; yet, He is all of that if we want or need Him to be.."

"Everyone loves Christ. The word "Messiah" simply means "anointed one." All the religions spiritually overlap and are intertwined. They all have meaning and all should be respected and valued. I'm discovering that the Prophets are basically saying the same thing; it is the theologians that are confused."

"[God is] so inclusive, it's hard to believe.  He put the versions of Himself back together in Christ. There's a version of God that's Hindu. There's a version of God that's Jewish, Muslim, Christian, Baha'i. It's so beautiful."


Caveat emptor!
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1294 on: December 12, 2012, 02:36:01 PM »
So--I was watching 'I've got a secret' on youtube, a show that happened in 1956, and the guest won the whole pot, which was 80 dollars.

That seemed like a small amount of money for a game show, so I went to the inflation calculator and found out that 80 dollars in 1956 was the equivalent of almost 700 dollars today.

Inflation is the hidden tax.  We live with inflation now.

But, the Bible tells us there will be hyperinflation in the last days.

And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

--Rev 6.6


This translation makes it a little clearer what is being said:

And I heard a voice from among the four living beings say, "A loaf of wheat bread or three loaves of barley will cost a day's pay. And don't waste the olive oil and wine."

--Rev 6.6


A day of work for a loaf of bread!


What is the average day's wages? 


Making some assumptions about an average day's pay for the average American, I calculated that would be 252 dollars in today's money for a loaf of bread.

Bread is currently about 4 dollars.


if bread is worth 4 dollars today and in that day it will be worth 252 dollars, that means each one of today's dollars will be the equivalent of 63 of those future dollars. What will the grocery bill look like? 200 dollars worth of groceries today will cost you 200 x 63 or  $12,600 in that day.

Did I do that right? :mshock:

My calculations might be silly, but you get the point.  Our money will be quickly becoming worthless.


Who will hyperinflation hurt the most?  The poor and the elderly.  And, children, because they always get hurt the most.

Are you listening Ben Bernake?



5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.

6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

--Rev 6



« Last Edit: December 12, 2012, 03:15:22 PM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1295 on: December 12, 2012, 03:29:54 PM »
PS  That is Christ's voice which is saying a loaf of bread will cost a day's wages, because he is the one standing in the midst of the beasts.

So, take heed!  [note to self].



And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.

--Rev 6.6




And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as though it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.

--Rev 5.6

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1296 on: December 12, 2012, 07:10:56 PM »
  this has to do with Elijah that comes again..  the prince of this world against the King of Kings.....no rain
 
  during Elijah's prophesying..and two wittnesses.   there is spiritual bread from heaven provided by

  God and the Christ that if a man eat he can live[give us this day our daily bread] that God provides that a

  man may live before Him.  God has His provisions and the prince of this world his.

   the plague of no rain unless they go up..is involved with high prices of  material food...as He attempts to

   bring men to repentance.  Holy spirit wine and oil of God and  wine of fornication and oil of the prince of this

  world.

    the world is in a great spiritual famine for hearing the word of God. He can  sustain us during the financial

  embargo the prince of this world uses in spiritual warfare.Also God will 'trouble' those that trouble us.......

  and famine/drought,war,pestilence plagues are worked against the prince of this world

   many years ago..material food miraculously appeared for me to eat....I have no doubt in His power to sustain

 my physical body if He choose...Elijah fed of raven...widows oil and flour.


   count everything you have in this material world as dross..for satan can and will use it against you to

 compel you to take the mark of the beast to keep it.  parable of man that found pearl in field...seek ye first

  the kingdom of heaven.....

     Just as the days of Noah...financial/political evil spirit giants/corporations will consume resources on this earth.

   monsanto etc.                                                                                                                                    .until the  earth

 be covered with the knowledge of God as with water. the time for destroying those who destroy the earth.

  then God's temple in heaven was opened,and  within His temple was seen the ark of the Covenant.[shut the door

  behind you til the wrath be passed]..

  and there came flashes of lightening[east to the west] rumblings peals of thunder an earthquake and

 a great hail storm[coming on the clouds of heaven]For the son of man shall be like lightening which flashes

  and lights up the sky from one end to the other,but first He must suffer many things and be rejected of this

  generation.   It will be justb like this on the day the son of man is revealed

    it has been wittnessed that the kings of this earth work economic embargoes and hardship on peoples

  that do not assent with their plans.   It also is wittnessed that God takes away vineyards,provisions etc

  from the people when they harden their heart in rebellion.  Be prepared for these things[and I do not mean

  by storing up material provisions where robbers and theives break in] but prepare yourself spiritually

  and store up your treasure in heaven[better inheritance]  keep seeking the kingdom of heaven.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1297 on: December 12, 2012, 10:21:24 PM »
WOW. Good word!!!  :cloud9: :HeartThrob:

I feel the same way. If God can rain manna down from heaven for the Israelites in the wilderness and destroy the rich with a breath, why would we want to even try to put our trust in anything else?
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1298 on: December 12, 2012, 11:11:38 PM »
.seek ye first

  the kingdom of heaven...until the  earth

 be covered with the knowledge of God as with water. the time for destroying those who destroy the earth.

  then God's temple in heaven was opened,and  within His temple was seen the ark of the Covenant.[shut the door

  behind you til the wrath be passed]..

  and there came flashes of lightening[east to the west] rumblings peals of thunder an earthquake and

 a great hail storm[coming on the clouds of heaven]For the son of man shall be like lightening which flashes

  and lights up the sky from one end to the other,but first He must suffer many things and be rejected of this

  generation.    prepare yourself spiritually

  and store up your treasure in heaven[better inheritance]  keep seeking the kingdom of heaven.

amen!
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #1299 on: December 13, 2012, 12:02:04 AM »
Quote
author=eaglesway link=topic=10395.msg146098#msg146098 date=1355275041]

Quote
In Matthew 24:30,31...

30 "Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory.[d] 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

So where's the resurrection here? If there is a resurrection of the dead here, why is Christ himself not coming to do this gathering of the elect? The text clearly states he is sending angels to do the gathering, angels do not possess the power of resurrection, only Christ does.

Quote
This appears to integrate with Paul's take on the relationship between the coming of the Lord and the resurrection.

In spite of the stark dis-similarity I just pointed out immediately above this quote of yours?

Therefore:
1Cor 15:20-23 ....... "in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive....."

2 Thess 2:1-2 Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him.......

Quote
1 Thess 4:14-17 For we believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him.

......you bet, because only he has the power to give life, angels gathering the elect in Matt 24:31 are impotent to do so. Therefore, because it is Christ's intention at this coming to also bring the dead back to life, therefore it is he who must do the gathering, not angels.

Quote
....l the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will come down from heaven,

In finality why is the Lord himself descending & doing the gathering "himself"? Because only he has the power to give life to the dead at the resurrection, angels who gather the elect in Matt 24:31 do not have this power, this is exactly the reason why there is no mention of a resurrection in Matt 24:31.