Prophecy

[Molly]

THE SONG OF MOSHEH AND THE SONG OF THE LAMB

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uv88ENKjAYE




And they sing the song of Moses, the servant of God, and the song of the Lamb, saying, "Great and amazing are your deeds, O Lord God the Almighty! Just and true are your ways, O King of the nations!

--Rev 15:3




Then Moses and the Israelites sang this song to the Lord:

"I will sing to the Lord,
for he is highly exalted.
Both horse and driver
he has hurled into the sea.

2 "The Lord is my strength and my defense;
he has become my salvation.
He is my God, and I will praise him,
my father's God, and I will exalt him.
3 The Lord is a warrior;
the Lord is his name.


4 Pharaoh's chariots and his army
he has hurled into the sea.
The best of Pharaoh's officers
are drowned in the Red Sea.
5 The deep waters have covered them;
they sank to the depths like a stone.
6 Your right hand, Lord,
was majestic in power.
Your right hand, Lord,
shattered the enemy.

7 "In the greatness of your majesty
you threw down those who opposed you.
You unleashed your burning anger;
it consumed them like stubble.
8 By the blast of your nostrils
the waters piled up.
The surging waters stood up like a wall;
the deep waters congealed in the heart of the sea.


9 The enemy boasted,
'I will pursue, I will overtake them.
I will divide the spoils;
I will gorge myself on them.
I will draw my sword
and my hand will destroy them.'
10 But you blew with your breath,
and the sea covered them.
They sank like lead
in the mighty waters.

11 Who among the gods
is like you, Lord?
Who is like you—
majestic in holiness,
awesome in glory,
working wonders?

12 "You stretch out your right hand,
and the earth swallows your enemies.
13 In your unfailing love you will lead
the people you have redeemed.
In your strength you will guide them
to your holy dwelling.


14 The nations will hear and tremble;
anguish will grip the people of Philistia.
15 The chiefs of Edom will be terrified,
the leaders of Moab will be seized with trembling,
the people of Canaan will melt away;
16 terror and dread will fall on them.


By the power of your arm
they will be as still as a stone—
until your people pass by, Lord,
until the people you bought pass by.


17 You will bring them in and plant them
on the mountain of your inheritance—
the place, Lord, you made for your dwelling,
the sanctuary, Lord, your hands established.

18 "The Lord reigns
for ever and ever."

--Exodus 15

[reFORMer]

Rv 14^2-3 (CLT)
2 And I hear a sound out of heaven as the sound of many waters and as the sound of loud thunder, and the sound which I hear is as lyre singers playing on their lyres.
3 And they are singing a new song before the throne and before the four animals and before the elders. And no one was able to learn the song except the hundred forty-four thousand, who have been bought from the earth.

Rv 15^2-4 (CLT)
2 And I perceived as it were a glassy sea, mixed with fire, and those who come off conquerors from the wild beast, and from its image, and from the number of its name, standing on the glassy sea, having the lyres of the Lord God.
3 And they are singing the song of Moses, the slave of God, and the song of the Lambkin, saying, "Great and marvelous are Thy acts, Lord God Almighty! Just and true are Thy ways, King of the eons!
4 Who may by no means be afraid of Thee, Lord, And glorify Thy name? For Thou only art benign. For all the nations shall arrive And worship before Thee, For Thy just awards were made manifest."

These Overcomers expressing universal coming to God, universal yieldedness to God, and universal worship of God, sing the song of Moses (the slave of God) and the song of the the little Lamb, (both in Rev 15³)  These two songs and a third song "the new song" (which no one can learn except the 144,000) are related in the work to which they testify.

The Overcomer Moses arrived and through his ministry the people of God were corporately brought a significant step up into greater intimacy with God as well as a significantly increased identity and expression of it.  The same was the result of the work of the lambkin Who Overcame death and hades.  We were brought into greater intimacy with God and we received a higher identity from God.  This also took on a greater expression in the world.

The new song (of the 144,000) cannot be learned by others in part because, Overcoming death and entering into immortality is not learned.  It is similar to being born again in this regard.  It is something God must preform.  This is the third in a row of songs that concern a big change in the people of God wrought by Overcomers' ministries.  The same changes are in view, only in an ultimate intensification this third time.  We are to be brought closer to God by the transformation of our physical bodies into incorruptible bodies of glory.  Our identity as being born of God will be revealed when the physical is born of resurrection.  All creation will be set free.

[eaglesway]

Awesome, Thank You Jesus!

[reFORMer]

The new song (of the 144,00) is new because it is The Third Day song.

"After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight." (Hosea 6²), KJV)

And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there: (John 2¹, KJV)

And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third [day] I shall be perfected." (Luke 13³², KJV)

And it shall come to pass in the last days, [that] the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. (Isaiah 2², KJV)  This is similar to Micah 4¹.

[Molly]

A Star of David in the sky made by #Hamas missiles and Iron Dome smoke trails

https://twitter.com/agcelotto/status/270327312640270336/photo/1




Great and marvelous are Thy works, YHWH,
Elohim El Shaddai.

Just and true are Thy ways,
Thou King of saints.

Who shall not fear Thee, O YHWH,
and glorify Thy Name?

For Thou only art set-apart,
For all nations shall come and worship before Thee,
For Thy judgments are made manifest.

--Rev 15

[Molly]

The High Priest Caiaphas prophesies that Jesus will die to gather together all 12 tribes of Israel--Ephraim [house of Israel] and Judah [house of Judah].



49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

--John 11





Paul also preaches the gathering together of the scattered tribes of Israel.  He talks about the promise made to Abraham which applies to all 12 tribes, the everlasting covenant.



6 "I'm on trial now because I expect God to keep the promise that he made to our ancestors. 7 Our twelve tribes expect this promise to be kept as they worship with intense devotion day and night. Your Majesty, the Jews are making accusations against me because I expect God to keep his promise.





This gathering together is an end time prophecy.


Jeremiah 50:4 "In those days, at that time," declares the LORD, "the people of Israel and the people of Judah together will go in tears to seek the LORD their God.

Jeremiah 50: 20 In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

[eaglesway]

The High Priest Caiaphas prophesies that Jesus will die to gather together all 12 tribes of Israel--Ephraim [house of Israel] and Judah [house of Judah].



49 And one of them, named Caiaphas, being the high priest that same year, said unto them, Ye know nothing at all,

50 Nor consider that it is expedient for us, that one man should die for the people, and that the whole nation perish not.

51 And this spake he not of himself: but being high priest that year, he prophesied that Jesus should die for that nation;

52 And not for that nation only, but that also he should gather together in one the children of God that were scattered abroad.

--John 11





Paul also preaches the gathering together of the scattered tribes of Israel.  He talks about the promise made to Abraham which applies to all 12 tribes, the everlasting covenant.



6 "I'm on trial now because I expect God to keep the promise that he made to our ancestors. 7 Our twelve tribes expect this promise to be kept as they worship with intense devotion day and night. Your Majesty, the Jews are making accusations against me because I expect God to keep his promise.





This gathering together is an end time prophecy.


Jeremiah 50:4 "In those days, at that time," declares the LORD, "the people of Israel and the people of Judah together will go in tears to seek the LORD their God.

Jeremiah 50: 20 In those days, and in that time, saith the Lord, the iniquity of Israel shall be sought for, and there shall be none; and the sins of Judah, and they shall not be found: for I will pardon them whom I reserve.

"For I will pardon them whom I reserve"(the remnant)

IMO, In this age, those who are pardoned are those who have come, are coming, and will come, into the one new man, in Christ.

The holy seed of Abrahams faith is for Jew and Gentile now, in Christ....Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham. And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed. So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
(Gal 3:6-9)


Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
(Gal 3:13-17)

The covenant of Abraham is ratified IN CHRIST and the covenant made 430 years later was the lesser covenant.

But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe. But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed. Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster. For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
(Gal 3:22-29)


The heirs are those who have come into Christ by faith.


For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that you being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world(as Gentiles): But now in Christ Jesus you(Gentiles) who at one time were far off are (now)made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who has made both(Jew & Gentile) one(the Body of Christ), and has broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain (Jew & Gentile) one new man(the Body of Christ), so making peace; And that he might reconcile both(Jew & Gentile) unto God in one body(the Body of Christ) by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: And came and preached peace to you which were afar off(Gentile), and to them that were nigh(Jew). For through him we both(Jew & Gentile) have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow-citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together is growing unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom you also are being built together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
(Eph 2:10-22)

From these verses it looks to me like the gathering together is into the one new man, neither Jew nor Gentile, in Christ, the seed of Abraham.

If any man be in Christ Jesus he is a new creation, old things pass away, behold all things become new......Behold I am making all things new.

[Molly]

Yes, but nevertheless, the promise goes to whom it was made.  Paul and Caiaphus claim it for the 12 tribes of Israel.  Obviously the Jews didn't want to hear it then, and the Christians [Ephraim] don't want to hear it now.  But, I only mention it because he will bring them "together in one" at the end times.  I believe that the Christians must minister to the Jews at the end time because it will be the time of Jacob's trouble, preceding the return of Christ, bringing everything full circle. 


For by people of strange lips and with a foreign tongue the LORD will speak to this people,

to whom he said, "This is the resting place, let the weary rest"; and, "This is the place of repose"--but they would not listen.

--Isa 28:11,12



Matthew 11:28 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObyOYaGwv7g

[sheila]

  don't fail to appreciate the law of the leavening of Christ and the Kingdom of Heaven...til the whole

   lump becomes leavened with Christ...til the stone not cut out by human hands becomes a

  mountain that fills the earth.   til all the children of God[Adam a son of God] are brought into ONE...son of man

    son of Adam/son of God

   the promised seed of the woman[adam=God made them male/female]   

[eaglesway]

Yes, but nevertheless, the promise goes to whom it was made.  Paul and Caiaphus claim it for the 12 tribes of Israel.  Obviously the Jews didn't want to hear it then, and the Christians [Ephraim] don't want to hear it now.  But, I only mention it because he will bring them "together in one" at the end times.  I believe that the Christians must minister to the Jews at the end time because it will be the time of Jacob's trouble, preceding the return of Christ, bringing everything full circle.

Yes, and I understand that and agree with it. The promises of God are without repentence and all Israel shall be saved. My point is that IMO the joining together began at Pentecost and the "one new man" will be complete in this age. The rest of Israel will be saved, but in the age(s) to come(each in his own order).

In Galatians Paul explains that the promise that gathers the children of God is ratified FIRST in Abraham and his SEED, according to faith, and that the promises to earthly Israel are secondary and do not annul the primary covenant which is to ALL who are of faith, Jew and Gentile.

"For you are all children of God through faith in Jesus Christ"........"If you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise."

The only reason I mentioned it is because IMO John 11:52 is not about the 12 tribes but about  the children of God. A prophecy that Christ should die....

"Not for that nation only(Israel), but also that He should gather together into one the children of God who were scattered abroad(Gentiles)".--Isa 28:11,12









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObyOYaGwv7g
[/quote]

[Molly]

"For you are all children of God through faith in Jesus Christ"........"If you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise."

This never comes out right, but, yes, we Christians [Gentiles] identify ourselves with faith because we are justified by faith.

The promise was given to Abraham when he was a Gentile [because there were only Gentiles then].   It is only fitting therefore that it is first received by the Gentiles [which is the whole world that are not Jewish]

Yet, at these last times, it might be hard to identify the Jews as our brothers when they mostly have no faith, but we must, because we will be [and we are] protecting them and bringing them into the faith now.  The age will not be over until they realize who their Messiah is and call for his return.

In other words, We are Israel and so are they.



26 And so all Israel shall be saved:

as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
 
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

--Rom 11




30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
 
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.


--Rom 11

[eaglesway]

"For you are all children of God through faith in Jesus Christ"........"If you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise."

This never comes out right, but, yes, we Christians [Gentiles] identify ourselves with faith because we are justified by faith.

The promise was given to Abraham when he was a Gentile [because there were only Gentiles then].   It is only fitting therefore that it is first received by the Gentiles [which is the whole world that are not Jewish]

Yet, at these last times, it might be hard to identify the Jews as our brothers when they mostly have no faith, but we must, because we will be [and we are] protecting them and bringing them into the faith now.  The age will not be over until they realize who their Messiah is and call for his return.

In other words, We are Israel and so are they.



26 And so all Israel shall be saved:

as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
 
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

--Rom 11




30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
 
31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.


--Rom 11

All of the above I agree with.

that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

As you quoted in your former post, " For by a people of strange lips and a foreign tongue I will speak to this people".


As Paul explained in Romans 9-11, some natural branches were cut-off. We, as wild olive branches were grafted in. We can also be cut-off, especially for boasting over the former branches, who will eventually all be grafted back in.

The Olive Tree now is made up of the original root, begun as a seed through Abraham, extended through the trunk of Israel , and now flourishing with branches both Hebrew and Gentile. Eventually every living being will be in that tree. :o) Praise God!

The revelation of God was presented to the world through the nation of Israel. Now it is presented through the church which is at present mostly made up of Gentile believers. I believe before the end of this age that the One New Man will manifest as never before, the eclessia of God, Jew and Gentile, sanctified and empowered with the message AND the manifestation of the kingdom of God.

I believe this prophecy in Revelation is a picture of this.

And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire: And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth, And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices. And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not. And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. And the voice which I heard from heaven spake unto me again, and said, Go and take the little book which is open in the hand of the angel which standeth upon the sea and upon the earth. And I went unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey. And I took the little book out of the angel's hand, and ate it up; and it was in my mouth sweet as honey: and as soon as I had eaten it, my belly was bitter. And he said unto me, Thou must prophesy again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and kings.
(Rev 10:1-11)

In another prophecy about olive trees, there is a prophecy that I believe refers to the manifestation of the one new man out of the eclessia/church/body of Christ...

Then he said to me, "This is the word of the LORD to Zerubbabel saying, 'Not by might nor by power, but by My Spirit,' says the LORD of hosts. 'What are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a plain; and he will bring forth the top stone with shouts of "Grace, grace to it!"'" Also the word of the LORD came to me, saying, "The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house, and his hands will finish it. Then you will know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. "For who has despised the day of small things? But these seven will be glad when they see the plumb line in the hand of Zerubbabel--these are the eyes of the LORD which range to and fro throughout the earth."
(Zec 4:6-10)

The setting of a "topstone", "capstone",or "headstone" is the closing, or finishing of an arch. You build the two legs of an arch on supports and framing until you reach the top. The setting of the capstone suddenly unites the arch as one integral piece that stands alone and all the supports are knocked out- no longer necessary.

In any case, the finishing of the temple surely looks ahead beyond the temple Zerrubabel actually finished with Ezra and Nehemiah and Joshua and Haggai and Zechariah, to the temple that we are, built of living stones,fitly joined, Messiah being the chief cornerstone- a habitation of God in the Spirit.

For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. Now therefore you are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom the whole building fitly framed together grows into a holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are built together for a dwelling place of God through the Spirit.
(Eph 2:18-22)

Glory!


Jesus is Head over all things to His body, the church, the fulness of Him who fills all in all. IMO, In order for the prophecies concerning the church and Messiah and Israel to be fulfilled- the manifestation of the One New Man, unto full stature(the measure of the stature of the fulness of the Son of God Eph 4), Jew and Gentile, has to be fulfilled.

Seven eyes, seven thunders, seven spirits of God, seven colors of light to make light(rainbow)....all of these things speak of fulness, completion, perfection, and the manifestation of god without lack.

Jesus, Head over all things to the ecclesia, His body, the FULNESS OF HIM WHO FILLS ALL IN ALL.(Eph 1)

So that you may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the height and depth and length and breadth; And to know the love of Christ which surpasses all knowledge, THAT YOU MAY BE FILLED UP TO ALL THE FULNESS OF GOD.(Eph 3)

Until we all become one in faith, and in the knowledge of the Son of God, and become a perfect(complete,mature) man ACCORDING TO THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULNESS OF MESSIAH:
(Eph 4:13)

I believe this corporate manifestation of the church is as sure a prophecy as any :o)

We already saw it once, from Pentecost and the first century AD(early rain). We have seen periodic glimpses in different places and times. I think we will see it in even greater glory(latter rain), for the ushering in of the next age in which Messiah will reign on earth. 

[goodreport]

Yes, but nevertheless, the promise goes to whom it was made.  Paul and Caiaphus claim it for the 12 tribes of Israel.  Obviously the Jews didn't want to hear it then, and the Christians [Ephraim] don't want to hear it now.  But, I only mention it because he will bring them "together in one" at the end times.  I believe that the Christians must minister to the Jews at the end time because it will be the time of Jacob's trouble, preceding the return of Christ, bringing everything full circle.

Yes, and I understand that and agree with it. The promises of God are without repentence and all Israel shall be saved. My point is that IMO the joining together began at Pentecost and the "one new man" will be complete in this age. The rest of Israel will be saved, but in the age(s) to come(each in his own order).

In Galatians Paul explains that the promise that gathers the children of God is ratified FIRST in Abraham and his SEED, according to faith, and that the promises to earthly Israel are secondary and do not annul the primary covenant which is to ALL who are of faith, Jew and Gentile.

"For you are all children of God through faith in Jesus Christ"........"If you are Christ's then you are Abraham's seed and heirs according to the promise."

The only reason I mentioned it is because IMO John 11:52 is not about the 12 tribes but about  the children of God. A prophecy that Christ should die....

"Not for that nation only(Israel), but also that He should gather together into one the children of God who were scattered abroad(Gentiles)".--Isa 28:11,12









http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ObyOYaGwv7g

[/quote]

Eaglesway... please expand on your "opinion": The joining together began at Pentecost...  I have several "opinions" about the one new man and I know I will learn/grow from your "opinion" ... I just need a bit more of an explanation.  Thanks.

Molly, I continue to appreciate your bringing these current events issues as they are related to the Scriptures to this forum.

[eaglesway]

When the LORD first spoke through Hosea, the LORD said to Hosea, "Go, take to yourself a wife of harlotry and have children of harlotry; for the land commits flagrant harlotry, forsaking the LORD." So he went and took Gomer the daughter of Diblaim, and she conceived and bore him a son. And the LORD said to him, "Name him Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will punish the house of Jehu for the bloodshed of Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel. "On that day I will break the bow of Israel in the valley of Jezreel."

The sin of Jehu was the utter and terrible destruction of the enemy by fire(he gathered his enemies by a false proclamation into the temple of Baal, then closed the doors, locked them and burned them all to death).

Jezreel symbolizes judgment (cutting off)  do to lack of mercy.


Then she conceived again and gave birth to a daughter. And the LORD said to him, "Name her Lo-ruhamah, for I will no longer have compassion on the house of Israel, that I would ever forgive them. "But I will have compassion on the house of Judah and deliver them by the LORD their God, and will not deliver them by bow, sword, battle, horses or horsemen."


Lo-ruhamah symbolizes mercy triumphing over judgment, all Israel will be saved, but with a special note that it will be "not by might nor by power but BY MY SPIRIT".


 When she had weaned Lo-ruhamah, she conceived and gave birth to a son. And the LORD said, "Name him Lo-ammi, for you are not My people and I am not your God." Yet the number of the sons of Israel Will be like the sand of the sea, Which cannot be measured or numbered; And in the place Where it is said to them, "You are not My people," It will be said to them, "You are the sons of the living God." And the sons of Judah and the sons of Israel will be gathered together, And they will appoint for themselves one head, And they will go up from the land, For great will be the day of Jezreel.
(Hos 1:2-11)

Loammi symbolizes what Paul stated in Romans,

 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?
(Rom 11:15)

Paul makes this clear by quoting this very verse from Hosea,

And He did so to make known the riches of His glory upon vessels of mercy, which He prepared beforehand for glory, even us, whom He also called, not from among Jews only, but also from among Gentiles. As He says also in Hosea, "I WILL CALL THOSE WHO WERE NOT MY PEOPLE, 'MY PEOPLE,' AND HER WHO WAS NOT BELOVED, 'BELOVED.'" "AND IT SHALL BE THAT IN THE PLACE WHERE IT WAS SAID TO THEM, 'YOU ARE NOT MY PEOPLE,' THERE THEY SHALL BE CALLED SONS OF THE LIVING GOD."
(Rom 9:23-26)

and,

For just as you once were disobedient to God, but now have been shown mercy because of their disobedience, so these also now have been disobedient, that because of the mercy shown to you they also may now be shown mercy.
For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. Oh, the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable are His judgments and unfathomable His ways!
For WHO HAS KNOWN THE MIND OF THE LORD, OR WHO BECAME HIS COUNSELOR? Or WHO HAS FIRST GIVEN TO HIM THAT IT MIGHT BE PAID BACK TO HIM AGAIN? For from Him and through Him and to Him are all things. To Him be the glory forever. Amen.
(Rom 11:30-36)

The Jews in the old testament are Jezreel
The Jews in the new testament are Lo-ruhamah
The Jews in the kingdom of heaven are, with the Gentiles- Loammi

[eaglesway]

Eaglesway... please expand on your "opinion": The joining together began at Pentecost...  I have several "opinions" about the one new man and I know I will learn/grow from your "opinion" ... I just need a bit more of an explanation.  Thanks.

Molly, I continue to appreciate your bringing these current events issues as they are related to the Scriptures to this forum.

My view on the one new man would be hard to put in short form :o), but basically, I believe God has been revealing Himself to man over time through stages. Adam, Able, Enoch, Noah the anit-quarian fathers of man, then post-flood, Babel, Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the patriarchs into Israel(the land). Then comes David, kings and kingdoms and finally on into the Coming of Messiah. Israel was the Lampstand but that privilege was transferred to the church/body/ecclesia.

"Except you repent I will remove your Lampstand from its place" (to the Ephesian church in Revelation 2:5)

Interstingly enough, it is the Ephesians who, IMO, best tell the story of the ONE NEW MAN.

Begotten through the preaching of Paul, of Jews and Gentiles, Paul wrote the epistle to the Ephesians as unto Jews and Gentiles-expressing the One New Man-as the fulfilment of the purpose of the church.

"Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, unto a mature man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Messiah."

When Paul leaves for Rome, knowing he may never return he gathers the elders from Ephesus and leaves them with this exhortation.

"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
(Act 20:27-32)

Apparently they did so. Many years later, when Jesus speaks to them through John, He commends them for having tested them who called themselves apostles but were not.

Yet, even so He has something against them for which the privilege of being a "Lampstand church", one upon which the manifest presence of the Holy Spirit abides in love and power.

"and great grace was upon them all and the word of the Lord grew and multiplied and great signs and wonders to place at the hands of the apostles and they were all as one soul and no one among them had any need and the Lord added to the church daily such as were appointed to deliverance."

The above paraphrase combining a couple verses in Acts is a description of a Lampstand church, which, in my opinion, is the manifestation of the ONE NEW MAN. A fulfillment of the "mature man" of Ephesians 4 .

I also think this is the "man-child" of Revelations 12. The church as a bride is gestating from her pastoral womb sons(mature disciples) to go forth in prophetic and evangelistic maturity to carry the battle to the enemy...."and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it(the church).....redeeming men through the ministry of reconciliation.

I also think this is the great angel with one foot on the land and one foot on the sea in Revelations 10- clothed in the clouds(great cloud of witnesses) head in heaven(seated in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus), little book in hand(the prophetic thread runs through Daniels little book, to the little book opened by the Lamb for Joh to receive his revelation, then on into the hand of the ONE NEW MAN, manifesting in power and maturity as he prophecies to nations and kings.

These pictures of the ecclesia, and process of maturing into the sons of God walking in the fulness of God are also richly embedded into the letter Paul wrote to the Ephesians:

I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling(ministry of reconciliation), what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints(the character of Jesus), and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe(the anointing). These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
(Eph 1:18-23)

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ, for by grace you have been saved, and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
(Eph 2:4-10)


For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.
(Eph 3:14-21)

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
(Eph 4:11-16)

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;
(Eph 5:25-28)

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
(Eph 6:10-17)

In other words the one new man is the mature manifestation of the church, operating in the Spirit together as members of one another under the Headship of Jesus.

"And the Lord worked with them, confirming the word with signs and wonders following."

I wrote some more on this in two consecutive posts starting at

 http://tentmaker.org/forum/book-of-revelation/the-body-of-christ-in-unity-in-john%27s-revelation/msg141562/#msg141562

[Molly]

Jezreel is literally "the seed of God."

The day of Jezreel is the day that all twelve tribes are once again reunited under one banner, Israel--through Christ.

Strictly speaking, Loammi in Hosea is referring to the ten tribes of the house of Israel who were divorced by God.

The house of Judah was never divorced by God--but left desolate by the Messiah.

The house of Judah stayed close to God in that they carried the OT back from exile in Babylon and rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem.  Because of them, we have the OT.  They retained their identity.

But, the house of Israel, the northern ten tribes became Loammi--NOT A PEOPLE, NOT MY PEOPLE--until Jesus came 2000 years ago.

These are the Gentiles who accept Christ as their LORD and Savior, imo.


"Loammi"

H3818
לא עמּי
lô' ‛ammıy
lo am-mee'
From H3808 and H5971 with pronominal suffix, not my people; lo Ammi, the symbolical name of a son of Hosea: - Lo-ammi.



10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

--Hos 1

[eaglesway]

Jezreel is literally "the seed of God."

The day of Jezreel is the day that all twelve tribes are once again reunited under one banner, Israel.

Strictly speaking, Loammi in Hosea is referring to the ten tribes of the house of Israel who were divorced by God.

The house of Judah was never divorced by God--but left desolate by the Messiah.

The house of Judah stayed close to God in that they carried the OT back from exile in Babylon and rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem.  Because of them, we have the OT.  They retained their identity.

But, the house of Israel, the northern ten tribes became Loammi--NOT A PEOPLE, NOT MY PEOPLE--until Jesus came 2000 years ago.

These are the Gentiles who accept Christ as their LORD and Savior, imo.


"Loammi"

H3818
לא עמּי
lô' ‛ammıy
lo am-mee'
From H3808 and H5971 with pronominal suffix, not my people; lo Ammi, the symbolical name of a son of Hosea: - Lo-ammi.



10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

--Hos 1

And the LORD said to him, "Name him Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will punish the house of Jehu for the bloodshed of Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel.
(Hos 1:4)

In the context within which I was writing, being the story of judgment and redemption told in Hosea as expressed in the names of the three children of Gomer-

 the child/son Jezreel was named for  exactly what the Lord spoke to Hosea, the bloodshed done by Jehu on that day. In essence, he struck the rock, and was struck in return. The narrative in Hosea shows this as not a good thing, but a manifestation of God's displeasure- but gladly, nevertheless to be followed by mercy :o)

As for Loammi, Paul clearly explains this(Romans chapters 9-11) as being Jews receiving mercy jointly with the Gentiles, quoting from the very verse in Hosea, his whole point being that they could not b be complete without us and we cannot be complete without them.

[Molly]

Jezreel is literally "the seed of God."

The day of Jezreel is the day that all twelve tribes are once again reunited under one banner, Israel.

Strictly speaking, Loammi in Hosea is referring to the ten tribes of the house of Israel who were divorced by God.

The house of Judah was never divorced by God--but left desolate by the Messiah.

The house of Judah stayed close to God in that they carried the OT back from exile in Babylon and rebuilt the Temple in Jerusalem.  Because of them, we have the OT.  They retained their identity.

But, the house of Israel, the northern ten tribes became Loammi--NOT A PEOPLE, NOT MY PEOPLE--until Jesus came 2000 years ago.

These are the Gentiles who accept Christ as their LORD and Savior, imo.


"Loammi"

H3818
לא עמּי
lô' ‛ammıy
lo am-mee'
From H3808 and H5971 with pronominal suffix, not my people; lo Ammi, the symbolical name of a son of Hosea: - Lo-ammi.



10 Yet the number of the children of Israel shall be as the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured nor numbered; and it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people, there it shall be said unto them, Ye are the sons of the living God.

--Hos 1

And the LORD said to him, "Name him Jezreel; for yet a little while, and I will punish the house of Jehu for the bloodshed of Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel.
(Hos 1:4)

In the context within which I was writing, being the story of judgment and redemption told in Hosea as expressed in the names of the three children of Gomer-

 the child/son Jezreel was named for  exactly what the Lord spoke to Hosea, the bloodshed done by Jehu on that day. In essence, he struck the rock, and was struck in return. The narrative in Hosea shows this as not a good thing, but a manifestation of God's displeasure- but gladly, nevertheless to be followed by mercy :o)

As for Loammi, Paul clearly explains this(Romans chapters 9-11) as being Jews receiving mercy jointly with the Gentiles, quoting from the very verse in Hosea, his whole point being that they could not b be complete without us and we cannot be complete without them.

I agree about the completeness part, but the Jews were never Lo-ammi.  They were always and to this day identified and identifiable as the people of God, because God did not divorce them.

But, who are the Gentiles?  They are the heathen, the nations, the non identifiable, the unwashed masses, NOT A PEOPLE< NOT MY PEOPLE.   They are also the first to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior.  This is what identifies them as those in the Hosea prophecy as the ones called Lo-ammi, because it is those Lo-ammi [the divorced house of Israel] who later become the sons of the living God [Christians].




11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
--Hos 1

[goodreport]

Eaglesway... please expand on your "opinion": The joining together began at Pentecost...  I have several "opinions" about the one new man and I know I will learn/grow from your "opinion" ... I just need a bit more of an explanation.  Thanks.

Molly, I continue to appreciate your bringing these current events issues as they are related to the Scriptures to this forum.

My view on the one new man would be hard to put in short form :o), but basically, I believe God has been revealing Himself to man over time through stages. Adam, Able, Enoch, Noah the anit-quarian fathers of man, then post-flood, Babel, Abraham Isaac and Jacob, the patriarchs into Israel(the land). Then comes David, kings and kingdoms and finally on into the Coming of Messiah. Israel was the Lampstand but that privilege was transferred to the church/body/ecclesia.

"Except you repent I will remove your Lampstand from its place" (to the Ephesian church in Revelation 2:5)

Interstingly enough, it is the Ephesians who, IMO, best tell the story of the ONE NEW MAN.

Begotten through the preaching of Paul, of Jews and Gentiles, Paul wrote the epistle to the Ephesians as unto Jews and Gentiles-expressing the One New Man-as the fulfilment of the purpose of the church.

"Until we all attain to the unity of the faith, unto a mature man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Messiah."

When Paul leaves for Rome, knowing he may never return he gathers the elders from Ephesus and leaves them with this exhortation.

"For I did not shrink from declaring to you the whole purpose of God. "Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood. "I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. "Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears. "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
(Act 20:27-32)

Apparently they did so. Many years later, when Jesus speaks to them through John, He commends them for having tested them who called themselves apostles but were not.

Yet, even so He has something against them for which the privilege of being a "Lampstand church", one upon which the manifest presence of the Holy Spirit abides in love and power.

"and great grace was upon them all and the word of the Lord grew and multiplied and great signs and wonders to place at the hands of the apostles and they were all as one soul and no one among them had any need and the Lord added to the church daily such as were appointed to deliverance."

The above paraphrase combining a couple verses in Acts is a description of a Lampstand church, which, in my opinion, is the manifestation of the ONE NEW MAN. A fulfillment of the "mature man" of Ephesians 4 .

I also think this is the "man-child" of Revelations 12. The church as a bride is gestating from her pastoral womb sons(mature disciples) to go forth in prophetic and evangelistic maturity to carry the battle to the enemy...."and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it(the church).....redeeming men through the ministry of reconciliation.

I also think this is the great angel with one foot on the land and one foot on the sea in Revelations 10- clothed in the clouds(great cloud of witnesses) head in heaven(seated in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus), little book in hand(the prophetic thread runs through Daniels little book, to the little book opened by the Lamb for Joh to receive his revelation, then on into the hand of the ONE NEW MAN, manifesting in power and maturity as he prophecies to nations and kings.

These pictures of the ecclesia, and process of maturing into the sons of God walking in the fulness of God are also richly embedded into the letter Paul wrote to the Ephesians:

I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened, so that you will know what is the hope of His calling(ministry of reconciliation), what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints(the character of Jesus), and what is the surpassing greatness of His power toward us who believe(the anointing). These are in accordance with the working of the strength of His might which He brought about in Christ, when He raised Him from the dead and seated Him at His right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come. And He put all things in subjection under His feet, and gave Him as head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
(Eph 1:18-23)

But God, being rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, even when we were dead in our transgressions, made us alive together with Christ, for by grace you have been saved, and raised us up with Him, and seated us with Him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, so that in the ages to come He might show the surpassing riches of His grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast. For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.
(Eph 2:4-10)


For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God. Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us, to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.
(Eph 3:14-21)

And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ. As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming; but speaking the truth in love, we are to grow up in all aspects into Him who is the head, even Christ, from whom the whole body, being fitted and held together by what every joint supplies, according to the proper working of each individual part, causes the growth of the body for the building up of itself in love.
(Eph 4:11-16)

Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless. So husbands ought also to love their own wives as their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself;
(Eph 5:25-28)

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
(Eph 6:10-17)

In other words the one new man is the mature manifestation of the church, operating in the Spirit together as members of one another under the Headship of Jesus.

"And the Lord worked with them, confirming the word with signs and wonders following."

I wrote some more on this in two consecutive posts starting at

 http://tentmaker.org/forum/book-of-revelation/the-body-of-christ-in-unity-in-john%27s-revelation/msg141562/#msg141562

WOW!!!! aka Wondrous things Out of the Word

Thanks so much for taking the time to reply...  I anticipated a great blessing and received a magnificent blessing.  I printed the earlier posts (The body of Christ...) and will also print this one so that I can more carefully read and study and learn and grow...  May God richly bless you... thank you so much for your gracious and generous sharing.

[Molly]

The Body of Christ is nowhere present within the pages of Revelation simply because it is a book about the restoration of Israel, by contrast the Body of Christ is composed primarily of non-Israelites, this being the case, what's the point of having the Body of Christ present on the Earth if we are not "appointed unto wrath"?

The saints [body of Christ] are present during the 3.5 years of the great tribulation [Jacob's trouble], seen here:


He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

---Dan 7:25


The saints are present after the Antichrist is revealed:

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.


Antichrist is given power over the saints as well as all nations of the world for a short period of time:


Revelation 13:7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.


But the saints will triumph in the end:

Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever--yes, for ever and ever.'

[Molly]

 




Netanyahu trying to convince Israeli hawks he won the Gaza war


http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/netanyahu-trying-to-convince-israeli-hawks-he-won-the-gaza-war.premium-1.479974








While people are saying, "There is peace and security," then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

--1 Thess 5:3

[Molly]

Obamacare at work. You asked for it.  You got it.



Orlando Health to cut record number of jobs to save money

Reduction of 400 jobs will help position system for health-care overhaul, officials say

In the largest staff reduction in its nearly 100-year history, Orlando Health is cutting up to 400 jobs starting immediately, hospital system officials announced Monday.

The move is part of a broader effort to position the hospital system for the health-care overhaul, CEO Sherrie Sitarik said.


Such cost-cutting measures are happening across the country. On Wednesday, Wake Forest Baptist Medical Center in North Carolina announced that it would cut 950 jobs by June.

Last month, Louisiana State University announced it would cut 1,495 positions as well as programs across its seven hospitals to trim more than $150 million from its budget.

"It's a challenging time for hospitals," said John Bigalke, senior partner of global health care for Deloitte, one of the nation's largest professional services firms.



http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/breakingnews/os-orlando-health-layoffs-20121116,0,7763193.story





7 And the Lord said unto Samuel, Hearken unto the voice of the people in all that they say unto thee: for they have not rejected thee, but they have rejected me, that I should not reign over them.

--1 Sam8:7

[Paul L]

The Body of Christ is nowhere present within the pages of Revelation simply because it is a book about the restoration of Israel, by contrast the Body of Christ is composed primarily of non-Israelites, this being the case, what's the point of having the Body of Christ present on the Earth if we are not "appointed unto wrath"?

The saints [body of Christ] are present during the 3.5 years of the great tribulation [Jacob's trouble], seen here:

OK, I looked below in Dan 7:25, I didn't see anything about Body of Christ saints.

He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the law; and they shall be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time.

---Dan 7:25

How do you know the "saints" being referred to in this passage are Israelite saints or Body of Christ saints? There is a distinguishing difference....the context of the "saints" of the entire 7th chapter is Daniel's people, Israelite "saints".

The saints are present after the Antichrist is revealed:

You bet, Israelite "saints".

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction.

And the point you're making with the above quote is?

Antichrist is given power over the saints as well as all nations of the world for a short period of time:


Revelation 13:7 He was given power to make war against the saints and to conquer them. And he was given authority over every tribe, people, language and nation.

Which "saints" ? Israelite or Body of Christ?

Daniel 7:18 But the saints of the Most High will receive the kingdom and will possess it forever--yes, for ever and ever.'

Once again which of the two groups of saints are being discussed here? Israelite or Body of Christ?

Dan 9:24 is discussing only Daniel's people upon whom the 70 weeks are conferred, Daniel knows nothing about the Body of Christ.... I don't get the point of how you are using 2 Thess 2:3? 

[eaglesway]

This goes to a basic dispensational debate.

 IMO, in this age, there are only one kind of saints. Everyone who believes is "in Christ", Jew and Gentile.

This is made clear in Romans 9-11, Galatians 3 and 4, Ephesians 1 and 2- among many others

The dividing wall is removed in Christ. The wild olive branches are grafted into ONE olive tree in Christ.

For there is one Lord, one faith, one body, one spirit, one baptism(Eph 4)

We are all members of one another in Christ.


IMO. People who break up the body of Christ in this age do so to justify their dispensational theories and to avoid the correction of the word by saying, "Oh, THAT, That's for The Jews, Oh, THAT's for the Gentiles.

[Paul L]

 

IMO, in this age, there are only one kind of saints. Everyone who believes is "in Christ", Jew and Gentile.

True, these are Body of Christ saints during this age of "grace", there are no Jew/ Gentile distinguishing characteristics. You're following quotes are perfectly vaild....

This is made clear in Romans 9-11, Galatians 3 and 4, Ephesians 1 and 2- among many others

The dividing wall is removed in Christ. The wild olive branches are grafted into ONE olive tree in Christ.

For there is one Lord, one faith, one body, one spirit, one baptism(Eph 4)

IMO. People who break up the body of Christ in this age do so to justify their dispensational theories and to avoid the correction of the word by saying, "Oh, THAT, That's for The Jews, Oh, THAT's for the Gentiles.

Fair point.....but square this with Dan 9:24. Are all of us Daniel's people then? You want to break up "dispensational theories", so who are Daniel's people here upon whom the 70 weeks are conferred? Body of Christ saints? Israelite saints?