Author Topic: Prophecy  (Read 211692 times)

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Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #650 on: September 29, 2012, 07:02:34 AM »
Jesus preached it later after the cross "more clearly" (no parables) -  through the Apostle Paul.   :Peace2:

many mysteries.

For sure, many mysteries in the "whole counsel".  Reminds me of "the logos is complete but not completely understood".   :nod:

 By more clearly I mean specifically what Paul said with these things (to which Jesus had earlier alluded/signified);   "the gospel .. by which also you are savedů that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures.. I decided not to know any thing among you, except Jesus Christ, and him crucified".
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 07:05:49 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #651 on: September 29, 2012, 07:50:18 AM »
Did Jesus preach this gospel?

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but yes, He said He would destroy the temple and raise it again in 3 days.  Which was a parable, right?

So did He want them all to understand at that point?  Or was there more to the plan?

That is a side step...why? What was the gospel that Jesus preached? Seems, the gospel is the cross and after. Jesus came preaching the kingdom. And what has that to do with destroying the temple in 3 days?
The understanding, is in understanding of the parables. The parables were not given for simplicity, but for the wisdom of the Holy Spirit to discern to those with ears to hear.
As well, if you did not "see and hear" the words of the parables taught by Jesus, then the words of Paul, in his epistles still sound as the tinkle of brass, which we see through out religion and all the harlot denominations expressed today in Christendom.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #652 on: September 29, 2012, 08:15:35 AM »
Did Jesus preach this gospel?

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but yes, He said He would destroy the temple and raise it again in 3 days.  Which was a parable, right?

So did He want them all to understand at that point?  Or was there more to the plan?

That is a side step...why? What was the gospel that Jesus preached? Seems, the gospel is the cross and after. Jesus came preaching the kingdom. And what has that to do with destroying the temple in 3 days?
The understanding, is in understanding of the parables. The parables were not given for simplicity, but for the wisdom of the Holy Spirit to discern to those with ears to hear.
As well, if you did not "see and hear" the words of the parables taught by Jesus, then the words of Paul, in his epistles still sound as the tinkle of brass, which we see through out religion and all the harlot denominations expressed today in Christendom.

What do you perceive as a side-step?

That's what I meant by the parable piece.  Most didn't understand at the time although Jesus talked about it with the temple parable .

I agree Jesus preached about the kingdom.  As for how it's connected, I see it as all tying together like a thread running through the whole gospel.  The Lamb slain from the foundation.   I believe His parable of the temple was predicting His death and resurrection, portending what Paul then preached post-cross. 
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 08:33:20 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #653 on: September 29, 2012, 08:58:52 AM »
Well we know that from Gen. 2:17.
Side step= getting away from the confrontation, whatever that may be.
"Most didn't understand at the time although Jesus talked about it with the temple parable ." Jab
NO ONE understood, that's why He spoke in parables. The parables are to be understood through wisdom, and that wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit, not from MY or YOUR understanding.
"I agree Jesus preached about the kingdom."
No Jesus came preaching the kingdom.
Mat_4:23  And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Jesus preached the kingdom.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #654 on: September 29, 2012, 09:10:15 AM »
Actually, he speaks in parables so that they won't understand.



10 And the disciples came, and said unto him, Why speakest thou unto them in parables?

11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

--Mat 13



11 And he said unto them, Unto you it is given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God: but unto them that are without, all these things are done in parables:

12 That seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.

--Mark 4

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #655 on: September 29, 2012, 09:26:19 AM »


You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you.  Jn 15:16

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #656 on: September 29, 2012, 09:29:50 AM »
I agree that was the purpose for parables.  Thus my earlier question "did He want them all to understand at that point?  Or was there more to the plan?". 

As far as Jesus' preaching - "the Kingdom is like unto..."

Blessings.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #657 on: September 29, 2012, 09:32:38 AM »
Right.  That really threw me for a loop back in the day.

He doesn't want them to understand, lest they turn and be healed?

Which brings us back to Romans 11...

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #658 on: September 29, 2012, 09:37:22 AM »
It also partially fulfills this prophecy [the rest to be fulfilled at the end of the age]


9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
 
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
 
11 Then said I, Lord, how long? And he answered, Until the cities be wasted without inhabitant, and the houses without man, and the land be utterly desolate,
 
12 And the Lord have removed men far away, and there be a great forsaking in the midst of the land.
 
13 But yet in it shall be a tenth, and it shall return, and shall be eaten: as a teil tree, and as an oak, whose substance is in them, when they cast their leaves: so the holy seed shall be the substance thereof

--Isaiah 6





But when oak trees and terebinth trees
    are cut down, stumps are left.
And my holy people will be like stumps
    that begin to grow again."
« Last Edit: September 29, 2012, 09:45:36 AM by Molly »

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #659 on: September 29, 2012, 10:05:02 AM »
Yes, one thing leads to another, fitting together perfectly in His plan.  All the while, the thread of the Lamb runs throughout.  Molly, that was one thing that really strenthened UR for me;  since Jesus basically "hid" Himself and His purpose from most (He explained to His disciples in private, and did choose some in that age), if there wasn't "more to the plan", then He would have been purposefully "sending most to hell".  Which then brings up something that I think was important for you - God's plan for the Ages.  Starting at the beginning, the Lamb slain from, ending with all nations blessed and God All in All.  Real big.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #660 on: September 29, 2012, 04:10:18 PM »
Yes, one thing leads to another, fitting together perfectly in His plan.  All the while, the thread of the Lamb runs throughout.  Molly, that was one thing that really strenthened UR for me;  since Jesus basically "hid" Himself and His purpose from most (He explained to His disciples in private, and did choose some in that age), if there wasn't "more to the plan", then He would have been purposefully "sending most to hell".  Which then brings up something that I think was important for you - God's plan for the Ages.  Starting at the beginning, the Lamb slain from, ending with all nations blessed and God All in All.  Real big.

 :iagree:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #661 on: September 29, 2012, 09:07:55 PM »
Well we know that from Gen. 2:17.
Side step= getting away from the confrontation, whatever that may be.
"Most didn't understand at the time although Jesus talked about it with the temple parable ." Jab
NO ONE understood, that's why He spoke in parables. The parables are to be understood through wisdom, and that wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit, not from MY or YOUR understanding.
"I agree Jesus preached about the kingdom."
No Jesus came preaching the kingdom.
Mat_4:23  And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.
Jesus preached the kingdom.

I believe the book of revelation is about Jesus Christ and him crucified.

There are in my opinion so many children of God waxing falsely their
so called wisdom and spiritual insights regarding this one book.

If you are looking for something more wise and more spiritual than the cross
of my Lord and Savior you won't find it.

In your life time this generation will see those you carry the cross.
Those who carry the cross only will lead this church age as it finds it way
back to the cross and into the kingdom of God
That is here now and can only be entered through the cross.

You will either enter led by the HOLY SPIRIT.

or you  will be put in by the HOLYSpirit

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #662 on: September 30, 2012, 05:22:51 AM »
The kingdom of God is the manifested glory of God. It transforms(restoration) and translates(revelation) things. "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven".

It is not, "Please let me get to heaven".

The meek shall "inherit the earth".

The holy city is "coming down out of heaven".

The mustard seed becomes a tree that "fills the whole earth".


The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #663 on: September 30, 2012, 03:19:43 PM »
I agree that was the purpose for parables.  Thus my earlier question "did He want them all to understand at that point?
Depends on the Trinity view....
My answer: Father/HS didn't want it. Jesus had no control over it.

(Luke 8:10) And he said, To you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #664 on: September 30, 2012, 03:23:43 PM »
NO ONE understood, that's why He spoke in parables. The parables are to be understood through wisdom, and that wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit, not from MY or YOUR understanding.
All teachers used parables.
First a rather complex/deep parable. Then immediately followed by an example everyone understood. Jesus never gave the explanations in public.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #665 on: September 30, 2012, 06:37:40 PM »
NO ONE understood, that's why He spoke in parables. The parables are to be understood through wisdom, and that wisdom comes from the Holy Spirit, not from MY or YOUR understanding.
All teachers used parables.
First a rather complex/deep parable. Then immediately followed by an example everyone understood. Jesus never gave the explanations in public.

Should that be true, then why did the disciples, go a fishing(Jo. 21:3)? If they understood the parables, I would think they would be teaching what they had understood of the explanations Jesus gave.?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #666 on: September 30, 2012, 07:21:52 PM »
If Jesus gave you personally a very clear explanation of a parable would that mean you understand all parables?
« Last Edit: September 30, 2012, 07:39:10 PM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #667 on: September 30, 2012, 07:33:26 PM »
 YOU BROUGHT UP A VERY GOOD POINT,MICAH

   MARK 16;7  BUT GO TELL HIS DISCIPLES AND PETER,'HE IS GOING AHEAD OF YOU

   INTO GALILEE.THERE YOU WILL SEE HIM,JUST AS HE TOLD YOU.

Offline CHB

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #668 on: September 30, 2012, 08:56:29 PM »

Should that be true, then why did the disciples, go a fishing(Jo. 21:3)? If they understood the parables, I would think they would be teaching what they had understood of the explanations Jesus gave.?

 :thumbsup:

They may have partly understood some of the parables but
I don't believe they fully understood things till after Christ was crucified and resurrected.  (John 2:22)   (Acts 11:16)

(John 14:26) But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, AND BRING ALL THINGS TO YOUR REMEMBRANCE, WHATSOEVER I HAVE SAID UNTO YOU.

CHB

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #669 on: September 30, 2012, 09:37:20 PM »
Luk 22:31  And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:
Luk 22:32  But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #670 on: September 30, 2012, 10:12:07 PM »
MAYBE THEY WERE TOLD TO GO THERE.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #671 on: October 01, 2012, 12:27:21 AM »
Yeah maybe.
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #672 on: October 02, 2012, 08:32:57 PM »
 :flamebreath:   the disciples went a fishing in Gailee..because Jesus told that that he would

  go ahead of them into Galilee after he was raised.  the angel told them women to tell them

  that he was not in the grave..but had went ahead of them into Galilee as he had told them.

   they went there waiting for Him..and went fishing there while they waited for the angel told them

  they would see him there..and also Jesus told them women don't be afraid and tell my brothers to go

  to Galilee,there they will see me.

   granted the disciples did not understand fully..for Jesus said that 'I yet have many things to say to you..

  but at present you can not bear them"  but the above is why they went to Lake Tiberius/sea of Galilee

   they were told to go there

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #673 on: October 03, 2012, 08:12:29 AM »
I'm concerned about our entering into practicing the prophetic, by words and visions, and not be limited to the pale substitute of interpreting the written record of what others heard and said and saw.  God says He wants everybody to speak in tongues, and even more, that we should all prophecy.  "Now I want you all to be speaking in languages, yet rather that you may be prophesying..." (1 Co 145, CLT) Look at verse one here in 1 Co 14 "1 Be pursuing love. Yet be zealous for spiritual endowments, yet rather that you may be prophesying."  Again in 1429-31, "Now, as to prophets, let two or three speak, and let the others discriminate.  Yet if it should be revealed to another sitting by, let the first hush, for you can all be prophesying one by one, that all may be learning and all be consoled."  Consider vs. 31, "You can all be prophesying . . ."

Perhaps the biggest barrier to people of God entering into prophesying is they and their gifts have been replaced with a performance, usually a sermon, by the same paid man whose authority is names of honor given by other men.  Where, if not when together will we cultivate this that is clearly God's will for us?  "The spirit of prophecy is the testimony to Jesus."  Just begin to tell someone, or a group, what the council of God is toward them.  Speak what is God's will for them.  While saying these things God may take it on up.  In the midst of doing this I've had a vision interrupt, and when I told the vision to the brother I was speaking to in front of the congregation, the people there began to shout and clap.  The became very boisterous.  The vision was a prophecy that come to him at least three times previously.  The people there knew what it meant, but I had to have it explained to me.

Without appreciating what it means to have the spirit of the resurrected and ascended Jesus in us, that all He is and does is in us as a potential to partake of and grow into, how will we come into the Perfect Man, the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ?  Without meeting in a way that is conducive for each of us to exercise to our own spiritual development, how will we come into "the image and likeness of God?"  Prophesying is essential and at the heart of our being like the Lord.  Are we only to enter in outside the meeting of the brethren?  How can we get free to meet under the Headship of Jesus Christ?
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #674 on: October 03, 2012, 08:30:39 AM »
Noun 1. prophecy - knowledge of the future (usually said to be obtained from a divine source)
 2. prophecy - a prediction uttered under divine inspiration




How does that saying go? 
"You can't handle the truth."


But, what does it say of God's people that the truth must be watered down and delivered to them only in pleasantries?

Yet, we look at the prophets of old, and what pleasantries came out of their mouths?

And, to skip over all the bad stuff, also known as judgment on a people who will not change its ways,  shows a lack of courage and character, an unwillingness to see the problem, and repent.




9 That this is a rebellious people, lying children, children that will not hear the law of the Lord:
 
10 Which say to the seers, See not; and to the prophets, Prophesy not unto us right things, speak unto us smooth things, prophesy deceits:
 
11 Get you out of the way, turn aside out of the path, cause the Holy One of Israel to cease from before us.
 
12 Wherefore thus saith the Holy One of Israel, Because ye despise this word, and trust in oppression and perverseness, and stay thereon:
 
13 Therefore this iniquity shall be to you as a breach ready to fall, swelling out in a high wall, whose breaking cometh suddenly at an instant.

--Isa 30


« Last Edit: October 03, 2012, 08:39:48 AM by Molly »