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Offline eaglesway

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #625 on: September 28, 2012, 09:22:46 AM »
Amen, and ALL the virgins could hear the cry. All of them were awakened by it. But only half of them could follow all the way to the feast. "The Bridegroom Cometh!"

Come Quickly Lord Jesus!

We speak a wisdom among the mature....

God has revealed them to us by the Spirit.....

The carnal man does not receive the deep things of God for it is foolishness to him, he is still under the heavens, under the elemental principles, needing to be taught again the foundations of the oracles of God.

The carnal man is unable to follow when the prophetic word speaks, COME, when the Spirit and the Bride say COME...... Come to the feast, the wedding feast where the BRIDE is UNITED TO THE LAMB OF GOD...... He is calling us to His footstool, to be one at His table, in His house, but who can hear it? And of those who hear, who has the oil to carry them outside the camp, through the night to where there is no need of sun or moon because the God is the light and the Lamb is the Lamp in the midst of it?

The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #626 on: September 28, 2012, 01:25:12 PM »
The disciples go privately to Jesus and ask him--what will be the sign of your return and of the end of the age?

Jesus points them to Daniel 11 and commands them to read and understand it.


15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) Mat 24


So we go to Daniel 11.  We see in Dan 11:21  the rise to power of a vile man.

21 And in his estate shall stand up a vile person, to whom they shall not give the honour of the kingdom: but he shall come in peaceably, and obtain the kingdom by flatteries.


The person described here is easily identified with Antiochus IV Epiphanes, king of Syria and Mesopotamia in the second century BC. He also ruled over the area of Jerusalem. He tried to impose the hellenistic culture and pagan worship by force, and made it illegal to practice the Mosaic law, or keep the sabbath day, practice circumcision, observe holy days, etc. In his days the Jerusalem temple was dedicated to Zeus.

In Daniel's prophecies, Antiochus IV and the events during his reign were not a type of a future human who would do similar things in the earthly Jerusalem, but they were typical of the spiritual assault on the church, the heavenly Jerusalem, which occurs in the present age.

And, in Dan 11:31, we see that this man will lead an invading army into Jerusalem.  And, it's here that we see the phrase that Jesus pointed us to.

31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.


If we go to Dan 12:1, we see the words Jesus used about a great tribulation.

and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time:

Jesus, in fact, tells us in Mat 24, there will never be such a tribulation again in all of human history.  So this is a one time event in its severity, so severe that were it not cut short no flesh would survive.


In Matt. 24:15-16 Jesus says, "When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:"

No one can "see" the abomination that Antiochus IV set up, which has long disappeared. It is thought to be an image of Zeus. But Jesus is referring to another kind of abomination, IMO. It is the spiritual abomination that has been present in the church since the first century, represented in various ways in several prophecies of Daniel. There are allusions to it in chapters 7, 8, 9, 11, and 12. One has to take all these prophecies into account, as well as the words of Jesus, and prophecies in Revelation, to "see" the abomination, and understand it. In Daniel 7 it is the "little horn" of the fourth beast which makes war against the saints and overcomes them. Its "eyes like the eyes of a man" seem to represent a human viewpoint, as opposed to the divine one. In Daniel 8 it is represented by a "king of fierce countenance" who fights against Christ. But in John's epistles it is called the spirit of antichrist. It is not a human individual.

Jesus also said, "For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it." [Matt. 16:25] Therefore he was not telling people to "flee into the mountains" to save their own lives in a physical sense, when he referred to "seeing" the abomination of desolation. The mountains he meant are symbols of the promises of God. The kingdom of God is called a "mountain." The blessings Jacob received were compared to the "everlasting hills." [Gen. 49:26] David said, "Thy righteousness is like the great mountains." [Psa. 36:6] These are the mountains we should flee to, i.e. God's promises.

In Daniel 12, we are told that the minute that army enters Jerusalem, start counting.

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


The abominable army will hold the city for 3.5 years, and those who survive for 45 more days will be blessed.


1,335 days is not 3.5 years. Neither is 1,290 days. In 3.5 years there are about 1,278 days, or, if counting by lunar months, 1,270 days. That includes one year of 13 months. It is impossible to get 1,290 days to fit three and a half years in any calendar. They must therefore be understood as representing not a natural three and a half years, but a symbolic period. The same applies to 1,335 days.

William Hendriksen wrote: "The expression 'a time, and times, and half a time' occurs first in the book of Daniel 7:25; 12:7. It is the period of the antichrist. John emphasizes the fact that the spirit of the antichrist is in the world already. (I Jn. 4:3). In the Apocalypse this period of three years and a half refers to the entire gospel age. It is followed by the 'three days and a half' during which 'the beast that comes up out of the abyss'–the antichristian world in its final phase–will kill the witnesses and will silence the voice of the gospel (cf. Rev. 11:7 ff.)." [William Hendriksen. More Than Conquerors: An Interpretation of the Book of Revelation. Baker Books, 1998. p. 144.]

This is the right approach to the time, and times, and a half in Daniel, IMO. It is a symbol representing the whole age of the church, or a portion of it. It is not three and a half literal years. Everything in Daniel's prophecies is finished, when it ends. [Dan. 12:7] Therefore it could not have occurred in the first century as preterists claim. The following chart illustrates the various numbers associated with the time, and times, and a half.


And, again, in Dan 12 we see that this time of the great tribulation will end with a resurrection.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt

"To say this has already been fulfilled is dangerous. It robs the church of the only compass she has in the darkest storm she will ever go through. It robs urgency from our spirit."

The primary sign of the end of the age and the beginning of Jacob's trouble is the invasion of Judea and the destruction of Jerusalem.  This is prophecy.  It hasn't happened yet.  There will be those in the church who will turn their backs on Israel.  We see it happening now.  Peter says there will be many scoffers. Paul tells us there will be a falling away and love will grow cold.  But, Daniel also tells us that God will raise up a remnant of the church who will stand with the Jews and against the Antichrist during this last 3.5 years of the age.

32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits. Dan 11

Applying the prophecies discussed above to the earthly Jerusalem is spurious. It disregards the New Testament scriptures that refer to Jerusalem as "the Jerusalem which is above" and "heavenly Jerusalem." [Gal. 4:26; Heb. 12:22] When Jesus ascended to the throne of his Father, Jerusalem was raised up too, as foretold in Isa. 2:2. It is now "the city of the great king." [Matt. 5:35] In the present age, the nations flow into the church, not the earthly Jerusalem.

The earthly Jerusalem is no longer in view in the prophecies, as Jesus told the Samaritan woman.

John 4
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Doug
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 01:50:16 PM by Doug »

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #627 on: September 28, 2012, 01:28:52 PM »
Indeed, Daniel 11 not only tells us that Jerusalem will be invaded, we are told why:  rage against God for creating a covenant with a group of people and rage against God's covenant people for receiving that unmerited grace.  Four times this is mentioned by the last two books of Daniel.

28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land. Dan 11

30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and have indignation against the holy covenant: so shall he do; he shall even return, and have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant.  Dan 11


32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries:  Dan 11


and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.  Dan 12


We see this rage and jealousy, against God's chosen people and against God himself for choosing them, from the beginning, when God favored Abel over Cain.  The result was murder.

And, when Jesus addresses the Pharisees in Mat 23, he accuses them of the same rage and jealousy as Cain, and tells them its source is their father, Satan. This rage always seeks the same end, murder.  Satan hates God's people from the beginning and seeks to destroy them.
 

34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.  Mat 23

It is Satan himself who rages against God's chosen, as the covenant is announced for the first time in Genesis 3--.

15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.  Gen 3

It is this same rage against God that murdered Jesus.

In the same way, we will see this same rage at the end of the story, the final indignation against God for giving his people land through an everlasting covenant.  How dare they possess this land?  What did they do to deserve it?  Why did God favor them and not us?  And, they seek with the same blood vendetta that Cain exhibited to even the score, an age old battle between brothers, one who receives unmerited grace and one who seeks to take it for his own.

But, this is a battle between God and Satan, a battle in the heavenlies, spilling over onto the earth.


That which none of the Rulers of this world understood, for if they had known it, they would not have crucified The Lord of Glory.   1 Cor 2:8
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 01:50:13 PM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #628 on: September 28, 2012, 02:05:41 PM »
Quote from: Doug
The person described here is easily identified with Antiochus IV Epiphanes, king of Syria and Mesopotamia in the second century BC. He also ruled over the area of Jerusalem. He tried to impose the hellenistic culture and pagan worship by force, and made it illegal to practice the Mosaic law, or keep the sabbath day, practice circumcision, observe holy days, etc. In his days the Jerusalem temple was dedicated to Zeus.

Really?  Where was the resurrection at the end of the story?



1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

--Daniel 12




Daniel tells us repeatedly, and Jesus confirms, that all these things are happening at the end of the age.

Offline lomarah

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #629 on: September 28, 2012, 02:09:51 PM »
   DON'T FORGET ESTER,MOLLY...LET A SEARCH BE MADE FOR BEAUTIFUL YOUNG VIRGINS

  FOR THE KING.....

   IF I HAVE FOUND FAVOUR WITH YOU O'KING  AND IF IT PLEASES YOUR MAJESTY

  GRANT ME MY LIFE..THIS IS MY PETITION, AND SPARE MY PEOPLE  THIS IS MY REQUEST

   FOR I AND MY PEOPLE HAVE BEEN SOLD FOR DESTRUCTION AND SLAUGHTER AND

  ANNHILATION........IF WE HAD MERELY BEEN SOLD AS SLAVES I WOULD HAVE KEPT QUIET


   WHO IS HE..WHERE IS THE MAN WHO HAS DARED DO SUCH THING


  IF YOU DO NOT KNOW MOST BEAUTIFUL OF WOMEN FOLLOW THE TRACKS OF THE SHEEP

  AND GRAZE YOUR YOUNG GOATS BY THE TENT OF THE SHEPHERD


   ESTER IS A PICTURE OF THE BRIDE OF THE kING OF kINGS...THE MOST BEAUTIFUL

  OF WOMEN IS THE CHURCH HE HAS BEEN MAKING SPOTLESS..THE FIVE WISE VIRGINS

   THE ONLY DAUGHTER OF HER MOTHER[JERUSALEM ABOVE]

     rEV 16;18       ..

   OUR GOD IS A SHAKER AND A MOVER         
Vashti made her own feast (the Rapture,) not coming when the king called for her.  She thought she'd disappear to her own chambers rather than be on display as the king wanted.  Haddasah (as Ishtar to the Gentiles) celebrated Tabernacles with the king.

Wow guys... thank you! Never saw that before, beautiful!!
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #630 on: September 28, 2012, 02:19:57 PM »
Quote from: Doug
1,335 days is not 3.5 years. Neither is 1,290 days.

Close enough  1290/365=3.5342

But, since he gives you days, just count them.



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year - Similar

In the Julian calendar, the average length of a year is 365.25 days.

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #631 on: September 28, 2012, 03:03:41 PM »
Quote from: Doug
The person described here is easily identified with Antiochus IV Epiphanes, king of Syria and Mesopotamia in the second century BC. He also ruled over the area of Jerusalem. He tried to impose the hellenistic culture and pagan worship by force, and made it illegal to practice the Mosaic law, or keep the sabbath day, practice circumcision, observe holy days, etc. In his days the Jerusalem temple was dedicated to Zeus.

Really?  Where was the resurrection at the end of the story?



1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

--Daniel 12




Daniel tells us repeatedly, and Jesus confirms, that all these things are happening at the end of the age.

The prophecy describes events in the future from Daniel's time, that were accurately fulfilled, up to the days of Antiochus IV. The last section of the prophecy including chapter 12 applies to events of a spiritual nature in the church age. The resurrection is at the end of the age.

Charles H. H. Wright (1836-1909) provided the following commentary. [Charles H. H. Wright, Daniel and his prophecies. Williams and Norgate, London. 1906.]

[begin quote]

p. 279

Modern critics are right in interpreting in some way or other the entire chapter, from ver. 21 to the end, as having more or less distinct reference to Antiochus and the times following. It is absurd to interpret these verses, with Jerome (after Hippolytus and other Church Fathers), of the imaginary Antichrist of the latter days. Jerome is, indeed, positive on that point. So far as ver. 20 inclusive he states that he is in accord in the main with Porphyry as to the interpretation of the chapter. But of the following twenty-four verses, as well as of portions of ch. xii., he says: "Nostri autem haec omnia de Antichristo prophetari arbitrantur, qui ultimo tempore futurus est." Jerome is, however, not consistent. For in the after verses he explains many events as fulfilled in the history of Antiochus Epiphanes. Pusey agrees in the main with Jerome's interpretation. It is extraordinary to maintain that so much should be told in the chapter of Alexander the Great and the kings of Syria who followed him, and that just at the very point when the prophecy begins really to touch the interests of the holy nation, it should break off and pass over to the days immediately preceding the Second Advent of Christ. Such an interpretation will never satisfy real Biblical students. Nor is the theory of a double interpretation of prophecy satisfactory. It is incongruous to regard a prophecy first as predicting in detail events which were to occur prior to the beginning of Messianic days, and then as predicting a second set of events to take place at the end of the world. Such a theory may have been excusable in the loose interpretations of bygone days; it is indefensible in the present age of critical interpretation.

It will be remembered that peace was concluded between Antiochus the Great, king of Syria, and Ptolemy V. Epiphanes, of Egypt, on the basis that the Egyptian monarch should marry Cleopatra, daughter of Antiochus, and that the provinces of Ccelo-Syria and Palestine should be assigned to Cleopatra as her dowry. The Syrian troops never actually evacuated those provinces, although the tribute of those lands was for a time divided between the kings of Syria and Egypt. Ptolemy V., however, was not willing permanently to put up with such a state of affairs, and had commenced preparations for another war with Syria to recover those lost provinces, when he was carried off by poison, B.C. 181. His son, Ptolemy VI. Philometor, then a mere child, succeeded to the throne of Egypt, and Cleopatra acted as the regent of the kingdom. That able woman contrived to keep peace with Syria for nearly eight years. But after her death in B.C. 173, the ministers and guardians of the child-king, namely, Eulaeus and Lenaeus, declared war against Antiochus Epiphanes in order to recover the much-coveted territories.
   
This led to Antiochus Epiphanes first campaign against Egypt, which proved a brilliant success. The Egyptian forces were overthrown in B.C. 170 in the decisive battle of Pelusium. The Syrian armies overran Egypt, and penetrated as far as Memphis. The youthful Egyptian monarch was either taken captive by Antiochus, or surrendered up to that king from motives of policy. Antiochus, actuated by similar motives, treated the boy-king ostensibly with great kindness, and won him over for a season to his side.
   
Such are the events, in the opinion of the majority of critics, detailed in Dan. xi. 22, 23: "And the arms of a flood shall be swept away from before him, and they shall be shivered in pieces, and also a prince of covenant (i.e. a prince confederate with him). And from the time of entering into alliance with him he shall work craftily, and shall go up, and become strong with a small nation."

There is here the ring of genuine prophetic language. In Isa. viii. 7, 8, the invading army of Assyria is described as a mighty river overflowing its banks, and sweeping away everything by the force of its mighty waters. The phrase is employed earlier in this chapter of Daniel (ver. 10) in the same signification, and again recurs in ver. 25. The expression cannot be used of an army acting on the defensive, and borne down in flight, like the Egyptian army at the battle of Pelusium. Antiochus, having mobilised his army with great rapidity, was able to invade Egypt before the Egyptian forces were able to cross the frontiers. The Syrian forces might well be compared to an overwhelming deluge, although such a comparison does not suit the armies of Egypt. 

...

p. 283

Verse 24 continues the general narrative of the doings of Antiochus Epiphanes in Egypt. "Suddenly he shall even come into the fattest places of a province, and he shall do that which his fathers have not done, nor the fathers of his fathers; spoil and plunder and riches shall he scatter among them, and against fortresses shall he devise machinations; and for a time" (ver. 24). Ewald explains "the fattest places of a province" to mean Galilee or Lower Egypt. The expression is peculiar, whether interpreted of one or the other.

The way in which Antiochus acted differently from all his predecessors was in plundering the province in order to lavish gifts upon his friends. That feature of his character is expressly noticed in i Macc. iii. 20. It is also alluded to by Polybius, while Livy, who had a mean opinion of Antiochus character and abilities in general, confesses: "In two great and honourable points his disposition was truly that becoming a king, namely, in the gifts he bestowed upon cities, and in his worship of the gods" (lib. xli. 20).

In the closing words of ver. 24 we light again upon a genuinely Danielic sentence, "and that for a season" The phrase is of peculiar interest, not only as indicating an upward glance of the prophet heavenwards, while predicting the days of darkness, but also as bringing the paragraph (consisting of verses 22, 23, and 24) to a close. The history of the invasion of Egypt by Antiochus in those verses is set forth in general terms, the same history being repeated a second time in the verses following in more detailed language. Hence it is probable that in this portion of the chapter two distinct paraphrases have been united, which would account for the peculiar character of some of the expressions employed, and serve to explain the use of phraseology not in harmony with other parts of the prophetic narrative.

Verses 25 and 26 form an excellent continuation of the history from the close of ver. 21, which seems broken in upon by the insertion of verses 22-24: "And he shall stir up his might and his courage against the king of the south [note here the resumption of the ordinary phraseology] with a great army [no mention is here made of "a small nation"], and the king of the south shall be stirred up to battle with a great army and strong exceedingly; but he shall not stand, for they shall devise devices against him. And they that eat of his dainties shall destroy him, and his army shall overflow, and many shall fall down slain."

After the battle at Pelusium (which was the only engagement which corresponds with the descriptions in Daniel and i Macc.), Antiochus Epiphanes overran the most fertile provinces of Egypt, and got possession by fraud or force of the person of its king. The Egyptians, under the idea that Ptolemy Philometor had acted in a cowardly manner, placed his brother Physcon on the throne. Physcon, with his sister Cleopatra, retreated to the fortified city of Alexandria, the siege of which was commenced by Antiochus. The inter vention of the Romans obliged Antiochus to abandon the siege; and, troubles having broken out in Cilicia, he returned to his own dominions, not, however, before he had set up Ptolemy VII. Philometor as king over the larger part of Egypt. Philometor soon made peace with his brother Physcon. The two brothers reigned for a while as joint-kings of Egypt, and sought the help of Rome against Antiochus. Antiochus, having settled matters in Cilicia, marched once more against Egypt. His fleet was successful at Cyprus, but no allusion to that success occurs in the Book of Daniel. The kings of Egypt were unable to stem the advance of the invader, and were compelled to retire within the walls of Alexandria. There is, then, a similarity between the description given in Daniel and the first campaign of Antiochus in Egypt. The mighty armies arrayed on both sides correspond satisfactorily, the defeat of the king of Egypt, and the inundating stream of the Syrian army overwhelming the provinces of Egypt. But historians of the period do not record the treachery on the part of the Egyptian nobles alluded to in the Book of Daniel, namely, on the part of the courtiers who fed at the royal table and partook of the dainties of the king. It is possible, however, that such details might have been known to the Jewish writer, whether prophet, paraphrast, or historian. Jerome is honest enough to confess that no mention is made in history of the two kings sitting at one table, each devising mischief against the other, which is so vividly pictured in ver. 27. The LXX. and Theodotion, led probably by the want of correspondence between the prediction and the history, modified ver. 26. See Critical Commentary.

[end quote]

Doug
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 03:06:58 PM by Doug »

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #632 on: September 28, 2012, 03:41:59 PM »
Quote from: Doug
1,335 days is not 3.5 years. Neither is 1,290 days.

Close enough  1290/365=3.5342

But, since he gives you days, just count them.



en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Year - Similar

In the Julian calendar, the average length of a year is 365.25 days.


Daniel's calendar was not the Julian one. In a Jewish year of 12 months there were about 354 days, and in a year of 13 months there were about 384 days.

Daniel's numbers make fools of those who say they refer to a literal three and a half years. Isaiah wrote, "But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." [Isa. 28:13] This applies to them; they are snared, and fall backward, because their claims and interpretations based upon flawed assumptions are false. This applies to futurists, and preterists, IMO.

Doug




Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #633 on: September 28, 2012, 03:47:12 PM »
Quote from: Doug
The prophecy describes events in the future from Daniel's time, that were accurately fulfilled, up to the days of Antiochus IV. The last section of the prophecy including chapter 12 applies to events of a spiritual nature in the church age. The resurrection is at the end of the age.

Daniel 12 is a continuation of Daniel 11.  The events are related and sequential, just like those in Mat 24.   Remember it says, AT THAT TIME. 

Are you saying the resurrection referred to at the end of these events is a spiritual resurrection?  some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt?

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #634 on: September 28, 2012, 04:22:58 PM »
'Jesus Not Allowed': Anti-Faith Sentiment Sweeps US
By Paul Strand
CBN News Washington Sr. Correspondent
Tuesday, September 25, 2012


Could you imagine going to jail for your faith? A recent report warns that it could happen.

CBN News investigated the growing wave of hostility to Christianity in America that's led to hundreds of court cases.

No Religion Allowed

Angela Hildenbrand faced the very real possibility of going to jail for her faith. The trouble began when a federal judge ruled that no one at her Texas high school could pray or even use words like "prayer" or "amen" during the 2011 graduation ceremonies.

As class valedictorian, Hildenbrand felt God deserved the praise, even if it meant jail for her.

"I was definitely preparing myself to have to make that sort of tough decision and mentally prepare myself for what well could be coming next," she told CBN News.

Hildenbrand's case is just one of more than 640 cases of religious hostility cited in a new report by the Liberty Institute. General Counsel Jeff Mateer, who takes on many of these cases, helped put the survey together.

"The atheists and the secularists are well-organized and they're well-funded," the Liberty Institute attorney told CBN News.

"The rate of hostility to people of faith is overwhelming," he said. "It's increasing. Every day, we're getting calls."

One call involved the Veterans Administration demanding to preview Scott Rainey's prayer for a Memorial Day ceremony at Houston National Cemetery.

They told Rainey, who pastors the Living Word Church of the Nazarene in Houston, he couldn't pray "in Jesus' name."

"I have never said a prayer in my life where I didn't end it saying 'in the name of Jesus Christ I pray, amen,'" Pastor Rainey said.

Contending for the Faith

Mateer is also working to save this veteran's memorial cross in San Diego, one of several cases that could have serious national consequences if courts order their removal.

"Are we going to bulldoze all those crosses?" Mateer asked. "We're going to sandblast God from the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier?"

But Mateer says the good news is, when believers fight back, they usually win.

"You need to stand up and fight," he said. "And that's exactly what Angela did."

Just one day before Hildenbrand's graduation, an appeals court ruled she could pray and say whatever she wanted.

"I thank You for Your great love for us and for our great nation, where we are free," she prayed at her graduation. "And it's in Jesus' name I pray, amen."

Courts eventually ruled that Pastor Rainey -- and all veterans at burials -- are allowed to freely express their faith.

But there is an across-the-board assault of religious hostility, and Americans' religious liberty hangs in the balance.

http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/us/2012/September/Jesus-Not-Allowed-Anti-Faith-Sentiment-Sweeps-US/?utm_sou





And because of the abundance of evil, the love of many will grow cold.

--Mat 24:12

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #635 on: September 28, 2012, 04:27:07 PM »
Quote from: Doug
The prophecy describes events in the future from Daniel's time, that were accurately fulfilled, up to the days of Antiochus IV. The last section of the prophecy including chapter 12 applies to events of a spiritual nature in the church age. The resurrection is at the end of the age.

Daniel 12 is a continuation of Daniel 11.  The events are related and sequential, just like those in Mat 24.   Remember it says, AT THAT TIME. 

Are you saying the resurrection referred to at the end of these events is a spiritual resurrection?  some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt?

Daniel 11
32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.
33 And they that understand among the people shall instruct many: yet they shall fall by the sword, and by flame, by captivity, and by spoil, many days.
34 Now when they shall fall, they shall be holpen with a little help: but many shall cleave to them with flatteries.
35 And some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end: because it is yet for a time appointed.

As I understand it, the above applies mainly to the Christian church. In the prophecy, events in the time of Antiochus IV were a figure and a type of the spiritual warfare in the future, in the Christian church, during the entire age of the church. For example, "they that understand among the people shall instruct many" refers to those who preach the gospel. And "some of them of understanding shall fall, to try them, and to purge, and to make them white, even to the time of the end," brings the time span of the prophecy right to the end of the age, and events yet in the future, such as the resurrection mentioned in Dan 12:1.

Many Christians have "fallen" into error, and the intent is to "purge, and to make them white," similar to what we read in Revelation: "Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy." [Rev. 3:4] And, speaking of the bride, John wrote, "And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints." [Rev. 19:8]

Daniel 11:45
And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

The "glorious holy mountain" is none other than the church, the heavenly Jerusalem, and the true temple. It was "raised up" to heaven when Jesus ascended to his Father's throne after his resurrection, which fulfils Isa. 2:2. This is probably what Paul alludes to in 2 Thess. 2:3-5. It is not referring to a human individual, but a seducing spirit.

Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

This is speaking of the resurrection, discussed at length in 1 Cor. 15. It corresponds also to the things described in Rev. 11:15-18.

Doug


« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 04:32:57 PM by Doug »

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #636 on: September 28, 2012, 04:41:30 PM »
Quote from: Doug
Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

This is speaking of the resurrection, discussed at length in 1 Cor. 15. It corresponds also to the things described in Rev. 11:15-18.


well this is also speaking of the great tribulation which Jesus talks of in Mat. 24.


So we have


1)the abomination that causes desolation standing in Jerusalem

2)Jesus cites this prophecy in Daniel, and says run for the hills when you see it

3)Then, start counting the days of the great tribulation, which both Jesus and Daniel cite, such as never was before and never will be again

4)Then at that time Michael will stand up for his people and deliver them

5)Then there will be a resurrection of the dead


There is no implied distance of thousands of years between these events.  In fact, the angel tells Daniel how to count the days.


Daniel asks again, when will these things happen?

And, again, He is told, at the end of the age.


8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

--Dan 12



And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draws near.

--Luke 21:28


 :iagree:


« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 04:52:42 PM by Molly »

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #637 on: September 28, 2012, 05:35:49 PM »
Quote from: Doug
Daniel 12:1
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

This is speaking of the resurrection, discussed at length in 1 Cor. 15. It corresponds also to the things described in Rev. 11:15-18.


well this is also speaking of the great tribulation which Jesus talks of in Mat. 24.


So we have


1)the abomination that causes desolation standing in Jerusalem

2)Jesus cites this prophecy in Daniel, and says run for the hills when you see it

3)Then, start counting the days of the great tribulation, which both Jesus and Daniel cite, such as never was before and never will be again

4)Then at that time Michael will stand up for his people and deliver them

5)Then there will be a resurrection of the dead


There is no implied distance of thousands of years between these events.  In fact, the angel tells Daniel how to count the days.


Daniel asks again, when will these things happen?

And, again, He is told, at the end of the age.


8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.

--Dan 12



And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draws near.

--Luke 21:28


 :iagree:

"1)the abomination that causes desolation standing in Jerusalem"

Daniel 12:1 says, "And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people..." and Revelation 12:7 says, "And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon."

The warfare of the saints is spiritual. Paul said, "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." [Eph. 6:12]

The "desolation" Daniel's prophecies allude to is about spiritual desolation, the confusion in the church, apostasy, general lack of faith, lack of conviction, false interpretations, and the proliferation of false prophets, etc.

"2)Jesus cites this prophecy in Daniel, and says run for the hills when you see it"

Luke 9:23-24
And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me.
For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.

Jesus was not saying flee to save your own life. He said "flee to the mountains" meaning seek God's promises, as mountains represent the lofty, spiritual, everlasting promises of God. This is shown in Genesis 47:26, where Jacob said, "The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills." The blessings he received were spiritual, and everlasting, like lofty mountains.

"3)Then, start counting the days of the great tribulation, which both Jesus and Daniel cite, such as never was before and never will be again"

No scripture puts a time or a number on the duration of "the great tribulation." Deceived dispensationalists say it is seven years, but they mistake Christ for Antichrist, and they say the "covenant" in Dan. 9:27 is one that Antichrist makes with the Jews. In fact, it refers to the holy covenant Christ makes with the saints, which is like a betrothal, and promises eternal life to those who believe in him.

IMO, when Jesus said, "But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be" [Matt. 24:20-21] he alluded to the judgment, and the fate of those "left behind" when the resurrection occurs. This is "winter" in a spiritual sense, as it follows the harvest of the saints, those who are in his heavenly kingdom. The "sabbath day" is a shadow and type of the "rest" promised to the saints. To flee on the sabbath, would mean one had to seek God's salvation, when the church was already enjoying the benefits of the glorious kingdom. By all means, "pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day" and that one may be ready and prepared when the day comes. Jesus said, "Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man." [Luke 21:36] The "winter" and "sabbath day" in Matt. 24:20 are both figures of the judgment, IMO.

"4)Then at that time Michael will stand up for his people and deliver them"

Many believe Michael refers to Jesus. He is our shepherd, and he is already seeking his sheep. "For thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep that are scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. And I will bring them out from the people, and gather them from the countries, and will bring them to their own land, and feed them upon the mountains of Israel by the rivers, and in all the inhabited places of the country." [Ezek. 34:11-13] The "sheep" represent Christians, and the "mountains of Israel" represent the promises of God, which includes the promise that the Spirit will guide us into the truth. This is a wonderful promise, a spiritual "mountain." Peter said, "According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust." [2 Peter 1:3-4]

"5)Then there will be a resurrection of the dead"

This is another promise to the saints, one of the "mountains" Jesus encouraged us to flee to.

"There is no implied distance of thousands of years between these events."

Peter said, "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." [2 Peter 3:8] In prophecy, events that are widely separated in terms of human time are often concatenated. God's time is not our time. When the resurrection occurs, it will seem to Daniel as if it was just a moment from the time of his death in the 6th century BC. "And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things? And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand." [Dan. 12:8-11]

Doug
 

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #638 on: September 28, 2012, 07:52:08 PM »
Amen, and ALL the virgins could hear the cry. All of them were awakened by it. But only half of them could follow all the way to the feast. "The Bridegroom Cometh!"

Come Quickly Lord Jesus!

We speak a wisdom among the mature....

God has revealed them to us by the Spirit.....

The carnal man does not receive the deep things of God for it is foolishness to him, he is still under the heavens, under the elemental principles, needing to be taught again the foundations of the oracles of God.

The carnal man is unable to follow when the prophetic word speaks, COME, when the Spirit and the Bride say COME...... Come to the feast, the wedding feast where the BRIDE is UNITED TO THE LAMB OF GOD...... He is calling us to His footstool, to be one at His table, in His house, but who can hear it? And of those who hear, who has the oil to carry them outside the camp, through the night to where there is no need of sun or moon because the God is the light and the Lamb is the Lamp in the midst of it?

Eaglesway
I hope you do not mind when I read your post I thought that if I changed a few words in your post it would be closer to how I see things.
I am not saying I disagree with your post or that you would agree with the changes I made to your post.

Amen, and ALL the virgins could hear the cry. All of them were awakened by it. But only half of them could follow all the way to the feast. "The Bridegroom Cometh!"

Come Quickly Lord Jesus!

We speak a wisdom among the mature....Those that eat meat and no longer drink milk
God has revealed them to us by the Spirit.....

The carnal( the person who still believes that Jesus will torture other people for ever) man does not receive the deep things of God for it is foolishness to him, he is still under the heavens, under the elemental ( elementary) principles, needing to be taught again the foundations of( pure everlasting LOVE) the oracles of God.

The carnal( the person who still believes that Jesus will torture other people for ever) man is unable to follow when the prophetic word speaks, COME, when the Spirit and the Bride say COME...... Come to the feast, the wedding feast where the BRIDE is UNITED TO THE LAMB OF GOD...... He is calling us to His footstool, to be one at His table, in His house, but who can hear it? And of those who hear, who has the oil to carry them outside the camp, through the night to where there is no need of sun or moon because the God is the light and the Lamb is the Lamp in the midst of it?

People who believe in ET have to make sure that the way they were saved was the right way before they follow. In other words they go back to the first time they believed and recall whether it was done properly.   

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #639 on: September 28, 2012, 10:26:22 PM »
  THIS CAN HAPPEN

    THINKING HE WAS IN THEIR COMPANY THEY TRAVELED ON FOR A DAY. THEN THEY BEGAN

  LOOKING FOR HIM AMONG THEIR RELATIVES AND FRIENDS.. WHEN THEY DID NOT FIND HIM THEY

  WENT BACK TO JERUSALEM TO FIND HIM.

  AFTER THREE DAYS THEY FOUND HIM IN THE TEMPLE COURTS

   WHY WERE YOU SEARCHING FOR ME? HE ASKED  DIDN'T YOU KNOW I HAD TO BE IN MY FATHER'S HOUSE?

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #640 on: September 28, 2012, 11:00:08 PM »
The promise of the Holy Spirit is that he has and will
directly lead and grow and nurture your spirit.
Once you set out to preach the TRUE Gospel.

If we were to think of,
and categorize all the different nations and dialects.
The category list would be long.
Each category would have millions of people in them.

To then say the true gospel must be preached to each one.
and then the end comes.
Means the end is no where near.
It is just another distraction.

(IMO it is a satanic distraction that people can see
 the end of every one else's time on earth but not their own)


Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #641 on: September 29, 2012, 01:12:54 AM »
This is the true gospel, and I would say, yes, it has been preached to the ends of the earth by now.



3 Then he told them many things in parables, saying: "A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4 As he was scattering the seed, some fell along the path, and the birds came and ate it up. 5 Some fell on rocky places, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6 But when the sun came up, the plants were scorched, and they withered because they had no root. 7 Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the plants. 8 Still other seed fell on good soil, where it produced a crop—a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. 9 Whoever has ears, let them hear."

--Mat 13

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #642 on: September 29, 2012, 01:30:48 AM »
The gospel;  Jesus Christ crucified for our sins and risen again.

I Corinthians 15
1 Now I make known to you, brethren, the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received, in which also you stand,
2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast the word which I preached to you, unless you believed in vain.
3 For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received, that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4and that He was buried, and that He was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #643 on: September 29, 2012, 02:07:42 AM »
Did Jesus preach this gospel?
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #644 on: September 29, 2012, 02:17:39 AM »
Did Jesus preach this gospel?

I'm not sure what you're getting at, but yes, He said He would destroy the temple and raise it again in 3 days.  Which was a parable, right?

So did He want them all to understand at that point?  Or was there more to the plan?

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #645 on: September 29, 2012, 02:33:21 AM »
Jesus preached it later after the cross "more clearly" (no parables) -  through the Apostle Paul.   :Peace2:

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #646 on: September 29, 2012, 02:34:14 AM »
This is my favorite gospel--


The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "ALL THE NATIONS WILL BE BLESSED IN YOU."

--Gal 3:8

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #647 on: September 29, 2012, 02:47:08 AM »
Yes, that's good alright.  Seems to me there's a lot of gospel in the scriptures, aka Good News.

My personal belief is that the cross and what was accomplished there is the center of it, where it all hinges - the foundational part. 

The Bible says Paul preached the whole gospel, the "whole counsel of God".  But it seems to me that when he boiled it all down to his very core message, this was it -  "..I decided not to know any thing among you, except Jesus Christ, and him crucified.. I Cor. 2:2

Blessings.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #648 on: September 29, 2012, 02:48:52 AM »
 :thumbsup:

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #649 on: September 29, 2012, 06:33:45 AM »
Jesus preached it later after the cross "more clearly" (no parables) -  through the Apostle Paul.   :Peace2:

Perhaps no parables, but many mysteries.
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com