Author Topic: Prophecy  (Read 188501 times)

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Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #450 on: September 13, 2012, 06:06:39 PM »
There goes Tunisia



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Anti-Islam film protests spread across Middle East
13 September 2012 Last updated at 10:46 ET

bbc.co.uk




Arab spring: an interactive timeline of Middle East protests
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2011/mar/22/middle-east-protest-interactive-timeline

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #451 on: September 13, 2012, 06:17:53 PM »
well, I don't know what to say, when you can read the news right out of the Bible before it even happens...


 :umnick:



Smoke rising from US embassy compound in Yemen: Sky Arabia
By Gerry Davies || September 13, 2012 at 08:34 GMT
|| 1 comment || Add comment
Oh dear…..

UPDATE: Yemeni demonstrators storm the US embassy in Yemeni capital Sanaa, security forces open fire.

Look at that smoke rising from the wreck of the theory of dispensationalism!

Doug

I'm just a simple country girl.

I don't know what dispensationalism is so I don't understand your statement.


Wikipedia says:

Dispensationalists believe that the nation of Israel (not necessarily the same as the state of Israel) is distinct from the Christian Church, and that God has yet to fulfill His promises to national Israel. These promises include the land promises, which in the future world to come result in a millennial kingdom and Third Temple where Christ, upon His return, will rule the world from Jerusalem for a thousand years.

They also promote a wooden literalist view of the prophecies of scripture which is equivalent to "dumbing down" bible prophecy. So, for example, they interpret Ezekiel's prophecy about Gog and Magog as a military invasion, in the territory of the ancient land of Canaan, or Palestine.

A wooden literal view insists that the horses the invaders ride are literal horses, their swords are literal swords, their bows and arrows are literal bows and arrows, their spears are literal spears, their shields are literal shields, and handstaves are literal handstaves. All these are said to be suitable for fuel, that supplies Israel's fuel for a literal seven years, so they have no need to cut down any trees, and so presumably all these weapons are made of wood. Some dispensationalists have broken ranks, and said the horses are not literal horses, but "attack helicopters," and bows and arrows are "missiles" and have made many other similar fantastic claims.

Obviously the theory is quite flammable, metaphorically speaking, rather like wood, and so its claims can be used as fuel, instead of wood, and as it burns up, it produces lots of heat and smoke and noise, in a figurative sense of course.


Doug


Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #452 on: September 13, 2012, 06:23:05 PM »
Quote from: Doug
Dispensationalists believe that the nation of Israel (not necessarily the same as the state of Israel) is distinct from the Christian Church, and that God has yet to fulfill His promises to national Israel. These promises include the land promises, which in the future world to come result in a millennial kingdom and Third Temple where Christ, upon His return, will rule the world from Jerusalem for a thousand years.


so how are current events sending this up in smoke?

Seems to me it is being played out right before our eyes.




Keep not thou silence, O God: hold not thy peace, and be not still, O God.
 
2 For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.
 
3 They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.
 
4 They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.
 
5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee:
 
6 The tabernacles of Edom, and the Ishmaelites; of Moab, and the Hagarenes;
 
7 Gebal, and Ammon, and Amalek; the Philistines with the inhabitants of Tyre;
 
8 Assur also is joined with them: they have holpen the children of Lot. Selah

--Psa 83

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #453 on: September 13, 2012, 07:33:05 PM »
my, my...



 :umnick:


There may be no anti-Islamic movie at all
Some interesting and convincing points are made.

By Dan Murphy, Staff writer / September 12, 2012



The online 14-minute clip of a purportedly anti-Islamic movie that sparked protests at the US embassy in Cairo and and the US consulate in Benghazi, Libya is now looking like it could have been ginned up by someone sitting in a basement with cheap dubbing software



http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2012/0912/There-may-be-no-anti-Islamic-movie-at-all

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #454 on: September 13, 2012, 07:45:03 PM »
You wouldn't have to tell me twice.  Uh, oh, Yemen is the gateway to Saudi Arabia.  And, after all Mr. O did to help them out...go figure..

 :umnick:





Americans told to leave Yemen amid anti-American protests

September 13, 2012
Following the protests in Egypt and the deadly attacks on the U.S. Embassy in Libya, hundreds of angry anti-American protesters in Yemen's capital are chanting "death to America" outside the U.S. Embassy compound there.


Amid the aggressive protests, Americans have been told to leave Yemen immediately for their own safety.

http://www.examiner.com/article/americans-told-to-leave-yemen-amid-anti-american-protests?

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #455 on: September 13, 2012, 08:11:22 PM »
Tying modern events to revelations written in the Bible,

Is quite naughty. 
 :shakepoint:

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #456 on: September 13, 2012, 08:18:06 PM »
Amazing how fast this has spread.  Kind of like a ..virus...




 :umnick:



Violent protests erupt at embassies as U.S. seeks killers
By Josh Levs and Tricia Escobedo, CNN
updated 12:46 PM EDT, Thu September 13, 2012

Since Tuesday's deadly assault in Libya -- and a protest the same day at the U.S. Embassy in Cairo -- demonstrations, both small and large, have been reported in Israel, Gaza, Libya, Egypt, Yemen, Sudan, Tunisia, Morocco, Iraq, Iran and among Muslims in the Indian-controlled region of Kashmir. Security has been heightened at U.S. diplomatic missions worldwide.






http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/13/world/meast/embassy-attacks-main/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #457 on: September 13, 2012, 11:15:31 PM »

Ezek 39:9-10 is a description of the materials of the weapons of war Gog & Magog used against Israel at the conclusion of the Millenium. There was enough wood to be burned for the kindling of fires by the saints of Israel that the people did not need to cut down a single tree in Israel for seven years. That's a lot of wood. These described weapons cannot be of the type used in present day warfare, metal does not burn & thus cannot be used for kindling. These are stone age weapons materials.

The technology, knowledge, skills & experienced tradesman required to craft weapons as we know them today have been with us for only 150 years. It  took thousands of years of development  in human history before we graduated from weapons described in verse 9,  the end of AntiChrist's rule will create a knowledge gap that God will not allow humankind to recover from, thus we have Gog & Magog  coming to Israel with the types of weapons described in verse 9.
About 40 years ago there was a (Chick?) tract that explained this fulfillment of prophecy, in that Soviets had developed a material from super compressed wood that was lighter and more resilient than steel and burned better than coal.

It wouldn't matter, you can't make gun barrels from wood or any kind of composite materials. Gun barrels require "rifling" of the barrel to generate spinning action of the projectile to maintain accurate trajectory, can only do this with the high heat durability of steel which is readily machined for "rifling". The military in all countries have even ceased making gunstocks from wood because composite materials are lighter than wood and do not readily break down from heat generated by repeating action from the gun barrels onto which they are mounted.  You can't build tanks from wood, nor rockets & missiles. Not much left you can make from wood in modern weapons technology is there?


If this prophecy describes the millennium, as the dispensationalists say, how can there be a rebellion at the end of it, where hordes of people come against the land of Israel, "horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: ... all of them with shield and helmet"? Also among the weapons are shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, handstaves, and spears. [Ezek. 39:11]

If the nations in the millennium do not learn war any more, how is it that after a thousand years of Christ's reign, they organize themselves into armies, and invade the promised land, looking for "silver and gold," and "cattle and goods," and a great spoil?

How come, if "nation shall not lift up sword against nation" in the millennium, these invaders from various nations at the end of the millennium are all equipped with swords?

Doug

Well Doug, I don't actually know everything "dispensationalists" believe about the Millenium. Many seem to think it will be a time of world peace & a loving thy neighbor sort of existence, but that is not the picture in Ezek 38 & 39. You are so steeped in Catholic Preterist theology that the present existence of a Jewish state with Jerusalem as its capital is nothing more to you than a product of a bunch of conspiracy theorists conspiring to make your church look bad. Consequently every sentence you  produce here is steeped in so much replacement theology that nothing about the Bible is real unless it has approval of the Pontiff. Do you even believe there are nonCatholic Christians?

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #458 on: September 14, 2012, 05:10:12 AM »
How do ten countries act like one mind with violent attacks on American embassies in each one?  How do they organize one mind within 24 hours?   Why is this happening now and not last year or the year before?

Tunisia, Egypt, Yemen,  and Libya have just gone through their so called 'arab spring' where they are supposedly embracing 'self governance and freedom and democracy' courtesy of Mr. O and Mrs. C.   Has this past week's of out of the blue violence in any way resembled our idea of democracy and freedom?



To date, rulers have been forced from power in Tunisia,[1] Egypt,[2] Libya,[3] and Yemen;[4] civil uprisings have erupted in Bahrain[5] and Syria;[6] major protests have broken out in Algeria,[7] Iraq,[8] Jordan,[9] Kuwait,[10] Morocco,[11] and Sudan;[12] and minor protests have occurred in Lebanon,[13] Mauritania,[14] Oman,[15] Saudi Arabia,[16] Djibouti,[17] and Western Sahara.[18] Clashes at the borders of Israel in May 2011,[19] and the protests in by the Arab minority in Iranian Khuzestan erupted in 2011 as well.[20] Weapons and Tuareg fighters returning from the Libyan civil war stoked a simmering rebellion in Mali, and the consequent Malian coup d'état has been described as "fallout" from the Arab Spring in North Africa.[21] The sectarian clashes in Lebanon were described as a spillover violence of the Syrian uprising and hence the regional Arab Spring.[22] Most recently, in September 2012 a wave of social protests swept Palestinian Authority, demanding lower consumer prices and resignation of the Palestinian Prime Minister Fayyad.




What does the Psalmist prophesy about these middle east countries?

5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: Psa 83



"confederate" [against thee]

H1285
בּרית
berı̂yth
ber-eeth'
From H1262 (in the sense of cutting (like H1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh): - confederacy, [con-]feder[-ate], covenant, league.


They are forming a caliphate with our help, one mind, one goal.  wake up wake up wake

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #459 on: September 14, 2012, 08:10:25 AM »
(This maybe "off topic". . .)

What has been on radio and TV news, the little I've heard from our government officials responding to the Moslem's murdering rampages of hatred and anger is very frustrating to me.  How inexcusable, we absolutely do not align ourselves in any way with the video they say.  Mrs. Clinton calls the video, "Completely unjustifiable."  Nobody in the government remembers to mention there is freedom of speech in America, and we're struggling to keep it.  Things in the media are not given the same value here as is given by those in societies where knowledge and books, and the popular media is state controlled with a religious agenda.  Many of us tend to see right through contrived rants against something.  We have freedom of religion here too, something else we are struggling to maintain.  We can own a Koran, or a Bible, as well as other religious and philosophical literature; but, they cannot have Bibles.  Has freedom of speech and religion here been passed by for something else?
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #460 on: September 14, 2012, 09:43:27 AM »
Quote from: Reformer
Nobody in the government remembers to mention there is freedom of speech in America, and we're struggling to keep it.

Romney remembered and said it and has been beaten up by the press for two days because of it.  He's the only one who said, look, these are our values and our laws and our Constitution and we support them. 

But, I think you are absolutely right--if they can use this as a way to inhibit free speech, they will most certainly do it.

There wasn't even a movie, just a poorly made movie trailer, which is so amateurish and puerile that it is pretty much impossible to watch.  Nor did the actors know what they were participating in, according to interviews, because the movie was dubbed after the fact.

Who made the movie trailer?  Nobody seems to know, yet, but CNN is now suggesting an Egyptian Christian made it [after suggesting a Jew made it two days ago], so you get the drift.  It must be the Jews and the Christians!

Meanwhile, I read that Sharia law calls slander anything that makes a muslim feel uncomfortable, and they would love to have this made a world wide law.  I would guess that pretty much stifles the rest of the world who is not muslim from saying just about anything at all.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #461 on: September 14, 2012, 09:51:33 AM »
I saw an ambassador to the US being interviewed by Greta tonight (one of the rational-thinking ones, right?  an ambassador).  He said if someone makes a movie like that they should be investigated, that they're a terrorist like any other.  Nice.

I think there's a disconnect somewhere.  Probably goes back a few thousand years, don't you think?
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #462 on: September 14, 2012, 01:58:36 PM »

What does the Psalmist prophesy about these middle east countries?

5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: Psa 83

For sure "the times they are a'changing". Rising prosperity inspires diverse cultures to impose their values on their neighbors. This is true whether you live in the Hamptons or in the Middle East. In the Hamptons where the 1% live, they look down on those who live in Nashville; in the middle east you are looked down on if you are not Muslim. If you live in Italy, you are looked down on if you are not Catholic, everybody imagines they are somehow superior to most of the rest of the world's populations & cultures. We are now coming upon the times when all these diverse cultures are violently clashing, and it's only just beginning.

Amidst all this Israel will not be found to be complacent in defending its right to exist even as most the rest of the world could care less that it does. Ps 83 certainly can be poignant to the extent that so many in the world want to see the country disappear, and sadly a lot of those living in the western world of so-called Christendom feel the same way. Uh........Preterists, Replacement Theologists, Muslims.......you have never been invested with with authority to rewrite the words of Holy Writ, God has merely allowed you a short season to display your pompous demeanor before he brings about your humility by the literal fulfillment of his Word.


Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #463 on: September 14, 2012, 02:58:07 PM »

What does the Psalmist prophesy about these middle east countries?

5 For they have consulted together with one consent: they are confederate against thee: Psa 83

The people listed in Psalm 83 include some that have disappeared from the earth, although some dispensationalists have linked them with modern nations in the mid-east. The attempts are misguided; for example Bill Saulus thinks that Edom refers to Palestinians. IMO he is uninformed, and his claims have no merit.

The people of Edom became Jews, when they were forced to convert by Johanan Hyrcanus about 130 BC. The dynasty of Herod was of Edomite ancestry.

Amalek, and Assur are also people mentioned in Psalm 83 who have disappeared. So clearly that psalm does not apply to particular modern nations in the Middle East. The list includes people who were enemies of Israel in ancient times. Perhaps the psalm is figurative of all the enemies of the saints.

For sure "the times they are a'changing". Rising prosperity inspires diverse cultures to impose their values on their neighbors. This is true whether you live in the Hamptons or in the Middle East. In the Hamptons where the 1% live, they look down on those who live in Nashville; in the middle east you are looked down on if you are not Muslim. If you live in Italy, you are looked down on if you are not Catholic, everybody imagines they are somehow superior to most of the rest of the world's populations & cultures. We are now coming upon the times when all these diverse cultures are violently clashing, and it's only just beginning.

Amidst all this Israel will not be found to be complacent in defending its right to exist even as most the rest of the world could care less that it does. Ps 83 certainly can be poignant to the extent that so many in the world want to see the country disappear, and sadly a lot of those living in the western world of so-called Christendom feel the same way. Uh........Preterists, Replacement Theologists, Muslims.......you have never been invested with with authority to rewrite the words of Holy Writ, God has merely allowed you a short season to display your pompous demeanor before he brings about your humility by the literal fulfillment of his Word.

The literalism advocated by dispensationalists is a "dumbing down" of the prophecies of scripture. Their approach often leads to absurd conclusions, and contradictions. And the dispensationalists can't agree on their interpretations. Classical dispensationalism, progressive dispensationalism, revised dispensationalism, ultradispensationalism, are some of the rival, competing varieties. For example, dispensationalist H. A. Ironside is noted for his blistering attack upon ultradispensationalism or Bullingerism. Perhaps their disputes fulfill Ezekiel 38:21, "And I will call for a sword against him throughout all my mountains, saith the Lord God: every man's sword shall be against his brother."

A "sword" in scripture can refer to a nasty style of speech.

Psalm 64:3
Who whet their tongue like a sword, and bend their bows to shoot their arrows, even bitter words:

Doug
« Last Edit: September 14, 2012, 03:28:07 PM by Doug »

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #464 on: September 14, 2012, 04:25:49 PM »

The literalism advocated by dispensationalists is a "dumbing down" of the prophecies of scripture. Their approach often leads to absurd conclusions, and contradictions. And the dispensationalists can't agree on their interpretations. Classical dispensationalism, progressive dispensationalism, revised dispensationalism, ultradispensationalism, are some of the rival, competing varieties. Doug

It takes a Preterist to get this backwards Doug. Dispensationalists started their movement in the 1800's after the discoveries of Greek manuscripts written between 200 & 400 AD. Now the Catholic Church could no longer falsely declare itself as the safe harbor of Holy Writ by claiming it held the only documents inside the Vatican upon which Holy Writ is transcribed to an illiterate populace. With Christendom outside the Catholic church now in possession of much older documents, the Vatican could no longer keep its monopolistic stranglehold on the accuracy of the written script, so they pervert it with "replacement theology".

The only thing you point out with any reasonable degree of accuracy are points in detail where Dispensationalists disagree with one another, good thing they do, or I too would still be mired in their confusions about a few things. At least they're on the right track which is more than I can say about the Vatican which once wanted to execute Galileo for his declaration that the Sun is the center of the solar system & not the Earth.

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #465 on: September 14, 2012, 06:18:55 PM »
In general, it would be reasonable to say, all apples are fruit. An old tradition says that the fruit Eve ate in the garden of Eden, and offered to Adam, was an apple. This gave rise to the association of apples with something that was desirable, but forbidden.

The city of New York is sometimes referred to as "the Big Apple," alluding to the carnal temptations there. Apparently this term was popularized in the 1920s by John J. Fitz Gerald, a sports writer for the New York Morning Telegraph, in a column about horse racing.

Corporations have also picked up on this imagery and made use of it for advertising purposes. Today, in the technological age, some apples are not fruit, but computers, or mobile phones, or similar devices. The name "apple" has been employed for its mythical associations, and now is used for things that have nothing to do with literal apples.

The ambiguous use of "apple" described above is parallel to the use of the term "Israel" in the New Testament.

Paul makes use of the contradictory meanings of the word Israel, already revealed in the Old Testament prophecies, in his epistle to the Romans. 

Romans 9:6-8
Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:
Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.
That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

His statement "they are not all Israel, which are of Israel" may be compared with: "not all are apples, which are of apple."

This may seem to contradict, but obviously, the statement is meaningful, because of the different meanings and associations that may be attached to the word apple. It can mean a fruit, or a tree, or it may be understood as referring to a city, or to the name of a US corporation, or a device produced by that company. Perhaps this could be made more explicit: "not all are apples, which are of Apple."

Dispensationalists "dumb down" prophecy, when they say that there can only be one meaning for "Israel," and they declare that it applies only to those who are ethnic descendants of Jacob, along with those who by circumcision of the flesh, become Jews according to the law of Moses.

They deny that in the New Testament, "Israel" can take a spiritual meaning. Their denial is as silly and simplistic as if one were to deny that an "apple" can be anything other than a fruit.

Doug

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #466 on: September 15, 2012, 04:30:40 AM »
Just reading the news


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2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.  Isa 19

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #467 on: September 15, 2012, 08:11:05 AM »

Amidst all this Israel will not be found to be complacent in defending its right to exist even as most the rest of the world could care less that it does. Ps 83 certainly can be poignant to the extent that so many in the world want to see the country disappear, and sadly a lot of those living in the western world of so-called Christendom feel the same way. Uh........Preterists, Replacement Theologists, Muslims.......you have never been invested with with authority to rewrite the words of Holy Writ, God has merely allowed you a short season to display your pompous demeanor before he brings about your humility by the literal fulfillment of his Word.
I generally love the modern nation of Israel.  A person doesn't even have to believe in the Bible to respect it as the only freedom loving republic in that area of the world.  They're also the only modern country there.  But, in questioning some of the dipSINsationalist doctrines about that country, I've found a lack of foundation; that is, no direct Biblical quotations saying the identical things as important assumptions they make.  They use an interpretive process rather than quotations.  They learn it from each other, without healthy cross checking with other approaches to understanding.  If the modern "alyhah" is so important to interpret Biblical writings --which is what is being done, it's not prophesying--  then, why is there no prophesy of returning after the return from Babylon in Hebrew Scripture?  There certainly is no mention of it in what men have called the New Testament.

Recently it has been popular to call "Replacement Theology" what history reveals was the theological position in so many churches for hundreds of years.  I tend to consider the people united with and representing Institutional Christianity as that Mystery Babylon to which John refers.  I certainly am under no obligation to believe or behave in line with what they promote as orthodoxy or orthopraxy.

What does it sound like to you when Jesus says, "The kingdom will be taken away from you and given to another people who will bear the fruit thereof."  "They are being replaced" naturally comes to mind.  The truth for most of us it is not a replacement, but a doctrine of God unfolding an advanced meaning that was in His original though.  It is the next step up fom what went before, a continuum where the ancient root sustains our more recent grafting in.  It is the mockers lie to call it replacement.  The substance casting the shadows throughout the Hebrew Scriptures came in the person of Jesus, the Messiah, and His many-membered body, the Eclessia.  While this superseded the religion of the ancient saints upon which it was built, nothing can supersede the revelation of the sons of God.

I take a bit here and a little there.  I dearly love and consider the most profitable interpretations of Scripture to be symbolic.  There are Literalist considerations, and Historicist too.  I'm a partial Preterit because I can clearly see many fulfillments to prophecies.  When I show those to some DipSINsationalists I get nowhere.  They profess a belief in double fulfillment.  I have certain pre-millennial ideas, the revealing of the sons of God and their taking charge of things that brings in the millennium.  I'm a post-millennialist because I believe in a further coming of the Lord, His head and body, on a great white Throne.  Heavens and earth fled and there was no place found for them due to the glory of this many-membered countenance.

Back to what I started with, modern Israel, what is it?  What if "the great working of deception God sends to lead astray the nations that they may be judged that received not a love of the truth that they would be saved" proves to be something coming forth from Israel?  Whether or not it was the real thing or a modern reconstruction, the world would go after the ark of the Covenant it it was found.  Where would we find prophets coming in Jesus' name, calling fire down from heaven, using lazer holographic fire, maybe strong enough to consume from space someone who won't bow...
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 08:37:32 AM by reFORMer »
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #468 on: September 15, 2012, 08:31:13 AM »
Quote from: Reformer
There certainly is no mention of it in what men have called the New Testament

Go back and read Romans 9, 10, and especially 11 four or five times.


Quote
"The kingdom will be taken away from you and given to another people who will bear the fruit thereof

until until until


For the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 08:36:15 AM by Molly »

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #469 on: September 15, 2012, 08:45:48 AM »
Quote from: Reformer
There certainly is no mention of it in what men have called the New Testament

Go back and read Romans 9, 10, and especially 11 four or five times.


Quote
"The kingdom will be taken away from you and given to another people who will bear the fruit thereof

until until until


For the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.
"Until, until, until " is not a quotation of Scripture.  And, there is NO mention of "alyhah," the return to the land, in Romans.  I don't need to read page after page til I'm bamboozled about what my original question was.  Quote it if the statement exists.  It only requires a phrase, only just one in the Authors own Words.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #470 on: September 15, 2012, 08:58:32 AM »
Quote from: Reformer
There certainly is no mention of it in what men have called the New Testament

Go back and read Romans 9, 10, and especially 11 four or five times.


Quote
"The kingdom will be taken away from you and given to another people who will bear the fruit thereof

until until until


For the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.
"Until, until, until " is not a quotation of Scripture.  And, there is NO mention of "alyhah," the return to the land, in Romans.  I don't need to read page after page til I'm bamboozled about what my original question was.  Quote it if the statement exists.  It only requires a phrase, only just one in the Authors own Words.


38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


"For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'"
 

Mat 23



Paul tells us when that 'until' happens--after we reach the fulness of the Gentiles [at the end of the age].


Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #471 on: September 15, 2012, 02:12:20 PM »


until until until


For the gifts and calling of God are IRREVOCABLE.
"Until, until, until " is not a quotation of Scripture.  And, there is NO mention of "alyhah," the return to the land, in Romans.  I don't need to read page after page til I'm bamboozled about what my original question was.  Quote it if the statement exists.  It only requires a phrase, only just one in the Authors own Words.


38 Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.


"For I say to you, from now on you will not see Me until you say, 'BLESSED IS HE WHO COMES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD!'"
 

Mat 23



Paul tells us when that 'until' happens--after we reach the fulness of the Gentiles [at the end of the age].

Jesus did not mean they would not "see" him in a physical way, observing his flesh, because many of the Jews saw him after he said this, as he made his way to the cross. He must have meant to "see" him in the sense of understanding with their hearts and realizing who he was, their Saviour. He said to his disciples:

Luke 10:22-24
22 All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
23 And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see:
24 For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.

God has to open our minds, in order that we can see Jesus.

John 14:6-10
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

How did those disciples see the Father? Not with eyes of flesh. The same applies to his words in Matthew 23:39, "Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord."

On Pentecost, when many thousands of Jews believed, they said, "Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord," about the apostles who preached the gospel.

Jesus illustrated this same principle when he said,

Matthew 25:31-40
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

Doug

« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 02:24:14 PM by Doug »

Offline thinktank

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #472 on: September 15, 2012, 09:22:29 PM »
Just reading the news


 :umnick:





2 And I will set the Egyptians against the Egyptians: and they shall fight every one against his brother, and every one against his neighbour; city against city, and kingdom against kingdom.  Isa 19

The prophets say that the devil wants to bring the end on his time schedule, but God has other plans, to prosper the nations, resurrect USA and bring the gospel to the middle east.
But also warn about political correctness and how FEAR can bring irrational laws in response to violent intimidation, stifling Gods people and the good of Christianity.

« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 09:51:35 PM by thinktank »

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #473 on: September 15, 2012, 09:28:33 PM »
Quote from: Doug
God has to open our minds, in order that we can see Jesus.

So true.  Amen!  And, they have been blinded.  But, they will see Jesus in person when he returns at the end of the age to save them.   And,  Paul confirms to us when that 'until' will happen.





25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

--Romans 11
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 09:33:49 PM by Molly »

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #474 on: September 15, 2012, 09:56:33 PM »
mOLLY   I WISH YOU WOULD START A NEW THREAD ABOUT THE FULLNESS OF THE GENTILES.  I HAVE HEARD TWO INTERPRETATIONS

  ON IT,WHAT IT MEANS ETC.