Author Topic: Prophecy  (Read 255802 times)

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Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #225 on: August 30, 2012, 04:31:20 AM »

The bible is meaningless as a guide to the future
of Israel, Spain, New Zealand and the USA.
 

With all due respect, I realize you feel Christians should not contend with one another over holy writ, but that is not in accord with what Apostle Paul commanded us to do, recall he commanded us the search the scriptures daily to see whether anything be true. It is when we brush aside Paul's advice that the Body of Christ runs into problems with polluting doctrines & teachings that result in weird oddball groups to rise up who think that by committing suicide, at the time appointed by their leader, that they will ascend to the surface of the Hale-Bob comet & take a ride around the sun & end up at Heaven's Gate at the end of the ride (when was that? Mid 90's as I recall).

It is never wrong to press another member of the Body of Christ about a teaching, theory, etc. But I could agree with you that there is a point of "backing off", but only after a reasonable time of honest debate, don't forget the Apostles had many of those among themselves, it even caused Paul & Barnabas to part company over the intenseness of their differences.

God indeed is love, but he also gave us a brain for use as a tool to reason with. Everyday I look at blueprints by which I must discern if a building can be engineered & constructed in the manner proposed by the architect, I almost always find problems which if not corrected in the final design, would result in bodily harm or even death to occupants. Throughout the period of the European Dark Ages the Body of Christ was in death throes because so many allowed a dictator in Rome guide their lifestyles & culture, then they learned to read, now the Body can't be dictated to anymore, but now there are those complaining about that.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #226 on: August 30, 2012, 07:27:29 AM »
Quote from: dajo
The bible is meaningless as a guide to the future
of Israel, Spain, New Zealand and the USA.
To Love one another is our final command and the bible can be used,
to prove that to fellow believers.

These are some of the great Christian Nations.

I would say they are the inheritors of the birthright passed down from Abraham through Ephraim [house of Israel] which we see here as Jacob prophesies over his grandsons:

18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

--Gen 48:19



"HIS SEED"


Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

--Gal 3:16



SHALL BECOME



"A MULTITUDE"

H4393
מלו    מלוא    מלא
melô'  melô'  melô
mel-o', mel-o', mel-o'
From H4390; fulness (literally or figuratively): -  X all along, X all that is (there-) in, fill, (X that whereof . . . was) full, fulness, [hand-] full, multitude.



"OF NATIONS"

H1471
גּי    גּוי
gôy  gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.



a multitude of nations= the fulness of the Gentiles



It is this birthright that Paul is revealing to the Gentiles as a mystery:


Even the mystery which has been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory


--Col 1:26-27



And it is this prophesy over Ephraim [house of Israel] that Paul refers to in Romans 11 when he tells us that the Jews [house of Judah] will receive salvation after THE FULNESS OF THE GENTILES be brought into the New Covenant.



For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

--Rom 11:25



The book of Daniel. and Jesus himself, tells us that the invasion of Jerusalem by foreign armies will kick off the last three and a half years before the return of Christ.

It is during this time that "the enlightened ones"  of the church [the Maskilim]  will minister to and evangelize the Jews [house of Judah] who are to be brought into the New Covenant before the Age ends [and after the fulness of the Gentiles has been achieved]--so that God can hold both sticks in one hand, another OT prophesy.

So there is still a lot going on with the church in the end times.

« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 07:46:16 AM by Molly »

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #227 on: August 30, 2012, 02:51:04 PM »
I've been thinking quite a bit over this christian nation thing.  There has never been a nation that is governed by the head, Christ.  There have been nations that set out to serve and honor God, but yet had human headship.  Just like the body of Christ suffers under human headship, as there can only be one head.  Remember there wasn't supposed to be a king in Israel, and they got Saul.  Or Abimelech, the thorn bush, kind of like a crown of thorns on the head.

I don't think there has ever been a "christian nation". 

Actually there was one "nation". "And all those who had believed were together and had all things in common;"

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #228 on: August 30, 2012, 02:54:39 PM »

Quote from: RHM
Actually there was one "nation". ..

One nation under God with Liberty and Justice for all?

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #229 on: August 30, 2012, 03:14:34 PM »
Quote from: dajo
The bible is meaningless as a guide to the future
of Israel, Spain, New Zealand and the USA.
To Love one another is our final command and the bible can be used,
to prove that to fellow believers.

These are some of the great Christian Nations.

I would say they are the inheritors of the birthright passed down from Abraham through Ephraim [house of Israel] which we see here as Jacob prophesies over his grandsons:

18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.

19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.

--Gen 48:19


The general beliefs that you outline here seem a lot like the beliefs of the Christian Identity movement. They believe that whites of European descent can be traced back to the "Lost Tribes of Israel." They say that Jesus Christ will return to the Earth following a period of "tribulation." They view the apocalypse as a racial battle.

The book of Daniel. and Jesus himself, tells us that the invasion of Jerusalem by foreign armies will kick off the last three and a half years before the return of Christ.

It is during this time that "the enlightened ones"  of the church [the Maskilim]  will minister to and evangelize the Jews [house of Judah] who are to be brought into the New Covenant before the Age ends [and after the fulness of the Gentiles has been achieved]--so that God can hold both sticks in one hand, another OT prophesy.

So there is still a lot going on with the church in the end times.

The church, in Rev. 12, is represented by the woman clothed with the sun, who is seen in heaven. Paul said believers "sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus" which explains why she is in heaven.

Ephesians 2:4-7
But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)
And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

The believer is in heaven, as Christ's Spirit is given to them; they are called temples of God.

1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?

See also 1 Cor. 6:19. Those who do not have the Spirit are not of Christ. This is what makes one a "Christian." Not race. Not whether one is white, of Caucasian descent, lives in the USA, or New Zealand, or Spain, or the UK, or Germany, or Russia.

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

In Rev. 12:6, the woman flees to the wilderness.

Revelation 12:6
And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.

The 1,260 days are not literal days or years, but symbolic, and represent the whole of the remaining time of the church since the Apocalypse was written. In the wilderness there is a place for her that has been prepared by God. In John 14:2, Jesus said, "I go and prepare a place for you." I suggest the "place" of the woman, and the "place" Jesus is preparing for each of us, are the same.

In the wilderness the woman is nourished. Her nourishment is spiritual, and this refers to teachings from the word of God, corresponding to the manna that the Israelites received in the wilderness. Jesus said, "I am the living bread which came down from heaven." [John 6:41, 51]

The wilderness is church's spiritual environment, not a literal wilderness. The meaning of the wilderness of Rev. 12:6 becomes clear, when the significance of the great city in Rev. 11:8 is understood. The concept of the wilderness in Rev. 12:6, 14 contrasts with the great city called Sodom and Egypt, which were both places from which the people of God escaped. Lot and his daughters came out of Sodom, into a wilderness. And the people of Israel came out of Egypt, into a wilderness. The saints are separate from the worldly system in a spiritual sense. The woman fleeing to the wilderness does not mean that the church goes to a literal desert, but the meaning is spiritual.

Paul said the saints have been delivered from the power of darkness, and are translated into Christ's kingdom. No change in location is involved.

Colossians 1:12-14
Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Peter said the saints have escaped the corruption that is in the world. [2 Pet. 1:4] James said, "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world." [Ja. 1:27]

The wilderness in Rev. 12:6 represents the spiritual place where believers come when they depart from the great city, mystical Babylon, and enter into the light of the gospel and Christ's kingdom. When Jesus prayed for his church he said,

John 17:14-16
I have given them thy word; and the world hath hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil.
They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.

In Rev. 12:13, after the war in heaven, where Satan is cast to the earth, he persecutes the woman.

The nations you refer to as "great Christian Nations" are not the "wilderness" where those who are truly Christians flee. How can great nations flee to the wilderness? Neither is the "wilderness" the USA, or other places that were colonized by Western European countries. It is a spiritual state of separation from the world, which John identifies with Babylon, and Egypt, and Sodom.

Revelation 18:4
And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

John said,

1 John 2:15
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

James said,

James 4:4
Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

Doug

Creation Concept
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 03:20:19 PM by Doug »

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #230 on: August 30, 2012, 04:17:08 PM »
Quote from: Doug
The general beliefs that you outline here seem a lot like the beliefs of the Christian Identity movement. They believe that whites of European descent can be traced back to the "Lost Tribes of Israel."

The beauty of the lost tribes is that they were lost.  We can play games around who they might be today, but lost is lost.  I believe they are the Christians, his sheep, of any race.  If we are hid in Christ, who is anyone to say who we are?

Abraham is told, all the nations of the earth shall be blessed through you.


Quote
The believer is in heaven, as Christ's Spirit is given to them; they are called temples of God.

Maybe so but an interesting thing happens at the end of the age.  The New Jerusalem comes down to earth in fulfillment of the New Covenant.



2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

--Rev 21


on earth as it is in heaven
« Last Edit: August 30, 2012, 04:22:53 PM by Molly »

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #231 on: August 30, 2012, 04:24:08 PM »

Quote from: RHM
Actually there was one "nation". ..

One nation under God with Liberty and Justice for all?

The Christian Identity movement in America developed out of an earlier nineteenth century doctrine known as British Israelism. The following is from an essay about the development of this kind of thinking, by Michael Barkun:

In retrospect, we can see in British-Israelism a bizarre religious manifestation of British imperial aspirations, for if the British were indeed descendants of the Israelites, then they were God's chosen people, ruling not simply by power but by divine plan. Yet Anglo-Israelism never developed as a separate religious denomination. Its members remained within their original churches, often the Church of England. By the 1870s and 1880s, the movement had begun to take organized form and branches spread to present and former outposts of the empire, notably to Canada and the United States.  Although eventually an umbrella organization formed — the British-Israel World Federation — it was in truth a movement without a head, and as it spread, its doctrines began to shift in some of the distant venues. It was these doctrinal mutations that set the stage for Christian Identity.

Once British-Israelism began to grow outside Great Britain itself, two major doctrinal deviations occurred that had major implications for the subsequent development of Christian Identity. One concerned the place of Britain; the other concerned the place of the Jewish people. As far as the significance of Britain was concerned, British-Israel writers had deduced it from a variety of highly questionable sources, including spurious etymologies (e.g., deriving "Saxons" from "Isaac's sons"), variant readings of biblical passages, and interpretations of historical and archaeological evidence. American Anglo-Israelites were not necessarily disposed to criticize this kind of argumentation on methodological grounds, but they were anxious to place America at the center of God's plan, for American British-Israelites, like many other Americans in the late 19th century, bought into concepts of Manifest Destiny. There was also a well-entrenched belief, harking back to the Puritans, that America was "the new Israel." Why, then, should it not be linked to Israel by biology as well?

Beyond considerations of America's special place in the world, when British-Israelism crossed the Atlantic, it became enmeshed in radical American political currents. This became evident in the early 1920s, when a major Anglo-Israelite in Oregon turned out to be a leader in the Ku Klux Klan at a time the Klan was a major power on the West Coast. The high tide of British-Israelism in America was reached in the next decade, for the Great Depression was a boon to all manner of fringe groups that would otherwise not have gotten a hearing. British-Israelism in America during the 1930s took the form of the Anglo-Saxon Federation of America, led by a tireless Massachusetts lawyer, Howard Rand, who crisscrossed the country organizing branches. Rand was joined in the Federation's leadership by William J. Cameron, an executive of the Ford Motor Co. Cameron was not only Henry Ford's public relations man; he had also edited Ford's weekly newspaper, the Dearborn Independent. In the early 1920s, the Independent had published an infamous set of articles, "The International Jew," which popularized the Czarist forgery The Protocols of the Elders of Zion, probably the most influential anti-Semitic tract of the 20th century. Cameron almost certainly wrote many of these articles himself. Although Ford closed the Independent in 1927, Cameron's presence in the Anglo-Saxon Federation provided a conduit for anti-Semitism in the inner circle of American British-Israelism.   


Most of the nations of Europe, and north Africa, and the Middle East, were part of the Roman Empire, represented by the fourth beast in Dan. 7. It would certainly have included England. And in Rev. 13, John includes all four beasts in his composite beast, and says of this beast:

Revelation 13:6-9
And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

In ch. 14 there is a powerful warning from an angel against those who worship the beast. 

Revelation 14:8-11
And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Doug

Creation Concept

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #232 on: August 30, 2012, 04:37:12 PM »
The Roman Empire is long gone, Doug.

It was conquered by the Ottoman Empire.


The Ottoman Empire was one of the longest lasting empires in history; such that the Ottoman State, its politics, conflicts, and cultural heritage in a vast geography provide one of the longest continuous narratives. During the 16th and 17th centuries, in particular at the height of its power under the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent, the empire was one of the most powerful states in the world – a multinational, multilingual empire that stretched from the southern borders of the Holy Roman Empire to the outskirts of Vienna, Royal Hungary (modern Slovakia) and the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth in the north to Yemen and Eritrea in the south; from Algeria in the west to Azerbaijan in the east;[8] controlling much of southeast Europe, Western Asia and North Africa.[9] At the beginning of the 17th century the empire contained 32 provinces and numerous vassal states, some of which were later absorbed into the empire, while others were granted various types of autonomy during the course of centuries.[dn 4]
--Wikipedia


The Ottoman Empire received a fatal wound after World War I [the head that was wounded and comes alive again] and today is looking to rise again as nation after nation falls to the Muslim brotherhood and the Sunni Muslims.


It's all about the Middle East,  Doug.  Keep your eye on ground zero, the city of Jerusalem.

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #233 on: August 30, 2012, 05:06:19 PM »
The Roman Empire is long gone, Doug.

It was conquered by the Ottoman Empire.


The Ottoman Empire was one of the longest lasting empires in history; such that the Ottoman State, its politics, conflicts, and cultural heritage in a vast geography provide one of the longest continuous narratives. During the 16th and 17th centuries, in particular at the height of its power under the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent, the empire was one of the most powerful states in the world – a multinational, multilingual empire that stretched from the southern borders of the Holy Roman Empire to the outskirts of Vienna, Royal Hungary (modern Slovakia) and the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth in the north to Yemen and Eritrea in the south; from Algeria in the west to Azerbaijan in the east;[8] controlling much of southeast Europe, Western Asia and North Africa.[9] At the beginning of the 17th century the empire contained 32 provinces and numerous vassal states, some of which were later absorbed into the empire, while others were granted various types of autonomy during the course of centuries.[dn 4]
--Wikipedia


The Ottoman Empire received a fatal wound after World War I [the head that was wounded and comes alive again] and today is looking to rise again as nation after nation falls to the Muslim brotherhood and the Sunni Muslims.


It's all about the Middle East,  Doug.  Keep your eye on ground zero, the city of Jerusalem.

The beast has seven heads. What are they? The nations of NW Europe were never conquered by the Muslims. The whole world does not worship Islam, or any particular Muslim nation, and it is not likely it ever will. But, Western Civilization has spread its influence around the whole world, in economics, religion, philosophy, politics, science, technology etc.

And, the formation of the Jewish state in 1948 healed a "deadly wound" of one of the heads of the beast, the Roman province of Judea, that was inflicted in 70 AD.

Doug

Creation Concept


Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #234 on: August 30, 2012, 06:25:02 PM »
Quote from: Doug
The beast has seven heads. What are they?


7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

--Rev 17



At the end of the war, the Allies occupied İstanbul and the Ottoman government collapsed. The Treaty of Sèvres, a plan designed by the Allies to dismember the remaining Ottoman territories, was signed on August 10, 1920, though never ratified by the Sultan.

The Lausanne Treaty formally acknowledged the new League of Nations mandates in the Middle East, the cession of their territories on the Arabian Peninsula, and British sovereignty over Cyprus. The League of Nations granted Class A mandates for the French Mandate of Syria and Lebanon and British Mandate of Mesopotamia and Palestine, the later comprising two autonomous regions: Mandate Palestine and Transjordan). Parts of the Ottoman Empire on the Arabian Peninsula became part of what is today Saudi Arabia and Yemen. The dissolution of the Ottoman Empire became a pivotal milestone in the creation of the modern Middle East, the result of which bore witness to the creation of new conflicts and hostilities in the region.--Wikipedia




10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition

--Rev 17


Five are fallen--Egyptian, Assyria, Babylonian, Persian, Greece

One is, the sixth--Roman

The other is not yet come, the seventh--Ottoman

This one is the beast that was [the seventh], and is not, and is the eighth--Ottoman



'Revival of the Ottoman Empire and Bible Prophecy'

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGi3h50JLdE

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #235 on: August 30, 2012, 06:43:27 PM »
Quote from: Doug
And, the formation of the Jewish state in 1948 healed a "deadly wound" of one of the heads of the beast, the Roman province of Judea, that was inflicted in 70 AD.

Judea was never an empire, so it does not fit into the beast prophecy of Rev 17 or Daniel, either.

Judea [house of Judah] was then and is now about the size of New Jersey.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #236 on: August 30, 2012, 06:59:29 PM »
and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is. 

--Rev 17


The ones whose names are written in the book of life will not worship the beast.  They worship the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Holy One of Israel.

Everyone else will be amazed [wonder] when the beast kingdom that was dealt the mortal head wound comes back to life.  Many will be worshipping the beast.  What or who will they be worshipping?  Bar codes on groceries?  The Pope?   The head of a secular one world government?

 Or, Satan, himself?


Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made.  Gen 3





Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #237 on: August 30, 2012, 07:00:57 PM »
when something is an eternal truth...it is perpetuated time and again..in scripture...take for instance the enmity between the seed of the serpent and the woman...

  Cain and Abel Jacob and Ishmael. Pharisees and sadducees and Jesus

...the Kingdom of Heaven is like a woman who hid a measure of leavening in a bowl of flour...until the whole amount was leavened..

   different groups/nations/societies and individuals have served in creation to testify to His word...to show plainly in a 'seen' way what transpires in the unseen realm.

   Pharoah served as an evil example of the oppression of Israel..as did Assyria etc.

   it is always GOD'S CHOSEN and the adversary pitted against them..that resists the will of God


    Our spirit is in a clay vessel..a human body surrounds thye Holy spirit in us all.....Gog's crowd can be likened to the multitude of sin in our flesh..that fights against

   the camp'token of Holy spirit'" in us[Holy city]........because the wicked encompass the righteous justice does not go forth....the sin in our flesh can and has,caused us to

  miss the mark or fall short of God's Glory.


   Beast has seven heads can also be the seven continents or land masses that the harlot sits on..encompassing the entire earth...some can see this as the truth leavens out to fill

  the all.  Some can't see the forest for the tree's. Truth is truth...let truth increase! Truth is also the prince of Persia that Gabriel and Michael dealt with.  and we are told the

  Prince of Greece was coming. Being sold to the Greeks can symbolize vain philospy  of men instead of truth of Holy spirit

 Now the scriptures say Michael will stand up..  Michael's name means 'WHO IS LIKE GOD"? which of course no-one compares..

  and NOTHING can stand in the way of His express will

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #238 on: August 30, 2012, 07:07:44 PM »
...and wars and desolations shall continue until the end...and ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars.....it's all about the enmity of the seeds

Offline lomarah

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #239 on: August 30, 2012, 07:14:03 PM »
Wow, very cool!
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #240 on: August 30, 2012, 07:20:11 PM »
It's a spiritual war which is being fought in the heavens but played out on earth in a very real way.


12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

--Eph 6

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #241 on: August 30, 2012, 07:24:36 PM »


Maybe so but an interesting thing happens at the end of the age.  The New Jerusalem comes down to earth in fulfillment of the New Covenant.



2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

--Rev 21


on earth as it is in heaven

And what is the bride?  How many brides does God have? 

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #242 on: August 30, 2012, 07:30:21 PM »


Maybe so but an interesting thing happens at the end of the age.  The New Jerusalem comes down to earth in fulfillment of the New Covenant.



2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.

--Rev 21


on earth as it is in heaven

And what is the bride?  How many brides does God have?

The bride are the ones who will commune with God inside the New Jerusalem, also known as the sons of God.


24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
 
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
 
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
 
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

--Rev 21

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #243 on: August 30, 2012, 08:08:23 PM »
"Ye Watchers and Ye Holy Ones"
by John A.L. Riley, 1853-1945

1. Ye watchers and ye holy ones,
Bright seraphs, cherubim, and thrones,
Raise the glad strain, Alleluia!
Cry out, dominions, princedoms, powers,
Virtues, archangels, angels' choirs,
Alleluia! Alleluia!

2. O higher than the cherubim,
More glorious than the seraphim,
Lead their praises, Alleluia!
Thou Bearer of the eternal Word,
Most gracious, magnify the Lord,
Alleluia! Alleluia!

3.Respond, ye souls in endless rest,
Ye patriarchs and prophets blest,
Alleluia! Alleluia!
Ye holy Twelve, ye martyrs strong,
All saints triumphant, raise the song,
Alleluia! Alleluia!

4. O friend, in gladness let us sing,
Supernal anthems echoing,
Alleluia! Alleluia!
To God the Father, God the Son,
And God the Spirit, Three in One,
Alleluia! Alleluia!

The Lutheran Hymnal
Hymn #475
Text: Ps. 148
Author: John A.L. Riley, 1906
Tune: "Lasst uns erfreuen"
1st Published in: Geistliche Kirchengesaeng
Town: Cologne, 1623



MUSIC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6SHaa2hE7c


Molly I asked the spirit a very specific question, before I posted.
My Israel, Spain, New Zealand and USA post

The fact that you answered made me giggle.
The fact that you answered not quoting scriptures made the
hair on the back of my neck stand up.
I would like to ask you a few questions.
Is this the right venue?


Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #244 on: August 30, 2012, 08:44:14 PM »

    YEAH...AND THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND IS THE GLORY AND HONOUR OF GOD.

    THE BRIDE IS THE SEAMLESS INNER GARMENT...THE INNER MAN THAT IS RENEWED DAILY

   IF WE BE SEATED IN HEAVENLY PLACES..AND HAVE OUR CONVERSATIONS IN HEAVEN WHILE IN THE SPIRIT.....

  WHEN WE SPEAK AND WITTNESS TO THESE THINGS WE SEE AND HEAR..IT IS THAT 1000 YEAR REIGN/OR JUDGEMENT DAY/SABBATH  OF WHICH IT IS REST

    HE IS SHAKING THE HEAVENS AND THE EARTH..AS WITTNESSED BY EARTHQUAKES IN DIVERSE PLACES AND SPACEQUAKES

   THE EARTHQUAKES IS NOTHING BUT THE EARTH HELPING THE WOMAN AND OPENING IT'S MOUTH AND SWALLOWING THE FLOODWATERS..FOR THERE

  ARE THREE THINGS EVEN FOUR THAT THE EARTH CAN NOT BEAR...A WOMAN THAT IS MARRIED BUT UNLOVED ,IS ONE OF THEM


   THE SPACE QUAKES AND STELLAR CLOUDS TESTIFY OF HIS RETURN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF HEAVEN..THE THUNDERS [7] SHAKE THE HEAVENS

  WITH HIS JUDGEMENTS

   ALL THROUGH-OUT THE BOOK OF THE REVELATION OF CHRIST WE SEE THE BANNEROF HIS LOVE DISPLAYED FOR HER. SUCH THINGS AS

  GIVE HER DOUBLE FOR THE WAY SHE TREATED YOU.  ARMIES OF HEAVEN RIDING ON WHITE HORSES..WAGING WAR IN RIGHTEOUSNESS AND TRUTH

   THE FIRE THAT COMES DOWN AND CONSUMES GOG'S CROWD IS THE ANGELS BUNDLING AND BURNING TARES

     IT'S SO AWESOME

   

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #245 on: August 30, 2012, 08:57:36 PM »
"Ye Watchers and Ye Holy Ones"
by John A.L. Riley, 1853-1945

1. Ye watchers and ye holy ones,
Bright seraphs, cherubim, and thrones,
Raise the glad strain, Alleluia!
Cry out, dominions, princedoms, powers,
Virtues, archangels, angels' choirs,
Alleluia! Alleluia!

2. O higher than the cherubim,
More glorious than the seraphim,
Lead their praises, Alleluia!
Thou Bearer of the eternal Word,
Most gracious, magnify the Lord,
Alleluia! Alleluia!

3.Respond, ye souls in endless rest,
Ye patriarchs and prophets blest,
Alleluia! Alleluia!
Ye holy Twelve, ye martyrs strong,
All saints triumphant, raise the song,
Alleluia! Alleluia!

4. O friend, in gladness let us sing,
Supernal anthems echoing,
Alleluia! Alleluia!
To God the Father, God the Son,
And God the Spirit, Three in One,
Alleluia! Alleluia!

The Lutheran Hymnal
Hymn #475
Text: Ps. 148
Author: John A.L. Riley, 1906
Tune: "Lasst uns erfreuen"
1st Published in: Geistliche Kirchengesaeng
Town: Cologne, 1623



MUSIC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k6SHaa2hE7c


Molly I asked the spirit a very specific question, before I posted.
My Israel, Spain, New Zealand and USA post

The fact that you answered made me giggle.
The fact that you answered not quoting scriptures made the
hair on the back of my neck stand up.
I would like to ask you a few questions.
Is this the right venue?
I quoted scripture all through my answer to you.

Sure.

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #246 on: August 31, 2012, 01:48:09 AM »
Re: "lost sheep of the house of Israel..."


"lost"

Strong's Concordance #622 - apollimi, from 575 & the base of 3639; to destroy fully.

#3639- ruin, death, punishment.

The English word "lost" is an erroneous translation holdover from the Latin Vulgate by the King James translators. The "punishment" of the northern ten tribes was banishment from their homeland via being taken into captivity by the Assyrians, it is no more complicated than that, it is not in losing their identity.

A lot of  Christian cultic activity has its' roots in numerous mistranslations of the Bible, and this is one of them.   

I can tell you with absolute certainty where you can find all of the progeny of the punished northern ten tribes, they are not hard to find, just go to any synagogue outside the land of present day Israel. Why outside of Israel? Because most of the tiny land mass we call Israel today was also the realm of the southern three tribes, Judah, Benjamin, & Levi; these are Jews in the strictest use of the term.

I will repeat it again from the Greek, punished not "lost". You do not have to be lost to be punished. I punished my 10 year old the other day by banishing him to his for the weekend, but I always knew where he was & so did he. 




Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #247 on: August 31, 2012, 03:17:07 AM »

Lost can mean Lost which is why it was translated 'lost'


"lost"  [sheep of the house of Israel]

G622
ἀπόλλυμι
apollumi
ap-ol'-loo-mee
From G575 and the base of G3639; to destroy fully (reflexively to perish, or lose), literally or figuratively: - destroy, die, lose, mar, perish.

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #248 on: August 31, 2012, 05:54:30 AM »
Quote from: Doug
The general beliefs that you outline here seem a lot like the beliefs of the Christian Identity movement. They believe that whites of European descent can be traced back to the "Lost Tribes of Israel."

The beauty of the lost tribes is that they were lost.  We can play games around who they might be today, but lost is lost.  I believe they are the Christians, his sheep, of any race.  If we are hid in Christ, who is anyone to say who we are?


Those who apply the sayings of Jesus about "the lost sheep of the house of Israel" to the ten northern tribes taken into captivity to Assyria, seem to misuse those scriptures, IMO.

Jesus gave three parables about things that were lost, in Luke 15. The first was about a lost sheep. [vs. 3-7] Then he told a parable about a lost penny. [vs. 8-10] His third parable was about a lost son. [vs. 11-32]

The "lost sheep of the house of Israel" ought to be understood along the lines of these three parables, as the saying is related to the gospel. It is not a cryptic reference to where the Israelite tribes might be found today.

Jesus said to the Samaritan woman who he met at the well, "salvation is of the Jews." Then he went on to say, "true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth." [John 4:22-24]

For Jesus, an Israelite was expected to be without guile. He said of Nathaniel, "Behold an Israelite indeed, in whom is no guile!" [John 1:47] This is also said of the 144,000 seen on mount Zion in Rev. 14. "And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God." [vs. 5]

Paul said that being a Jew meant to be circumcised in heart; he discounted the importance of descent from Abraham in the flesh. [Rom. 2:28-29] Paul said that Jesus was "a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers," [Rom. 15:8-9] and also said that "For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh." [Phil. 3:3]

Worship in the spirit is contrasted with the letter in Rom. 2:29, and Rom 7:6, where Paul says that we "should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter."

So in the light of all these things I conclude that the saints are the "lost sheep" that Christ came for. Also consider:

John 9:39
And Jesus said, For judgment I am come into this world, that they which see not might see; and that they which see might be made blind.

Jews who did not believe in Jesus were blinded; Paul said of them,

2 Corinthians 3:14-16
But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.

Jesus also said to the Jews, "They that are whole need not a physician; but they that are sick. I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance." [Luke 5:31-32]

These sayings indicate he did not come for the "righteous" in Israel, but for the "sinners." Not for those who are "whole" in Israel, but the "sick." He did not come for those sheep who were "safe" in the sheepfold but those who are "lost." It has a spiritual meaning. It is not about race, or their ethnic background.

Doug

Creation Concept


Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #249 on: August 31, 2012, 06:29:14 AM »


The bride are the ones who will commune with God inside the New Jerusalem, also known as the sons of God.


24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
 
25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.
 
26 And they shall bring the glory and honour of the nations into it.
 
27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

--Rev 21

New Jerusalem is the bride adorned for her husband.  Who is the husband?  Does He marry a literal city? Or is it the bride that goes back to Ezekiel 16.  This is why I ask, how many brides does God have?  I don't mean to put words into your mouth Molly, but it seems you would say at least 3. 

1) ethnic Israel
2) spiritual Israel (christians)
3)The literal city new Jerusalem

My answer is there is only one bride, and 3=2.  The New Jerusalem is the body of people.  It is where God dwells, which is where?  Yes in you, that is the hope of glory, that is the great mystery concerning Christ and the church, His bride.  Now this doesn't discount 1) ethnic israel, because as the wealth comes in from the nations they become part of the city.  There is no need for the temple in the city, because it is the temple.  What is the temple?  YOU, don't you know you are the temple of the living God.  We are a living temple jointly fitted together.