Author Topic: Prophecy  (Read 254259 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline eaglesway

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 4617
  • Gender: Male
  • Grace & Peace be multiplied unto you, in Jesus
    • Hell is a Myth.com
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #425 on: September 12, 2012, 06:41:13 AM »
Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand(chiloi- thousand) years,

Rev 5:11  And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands(chilias-thousands) of thousands;
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11313
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #426 on: September 12, 2012, 09:47:37 AM »
Looks like somebody insulted the Prophet, peace be on him, but don't you love the new democracy in Arab spring?  oops, there goes two american embassies.  Maybe we should give them more billions of dollars?


 :umnick:






Protesters scale US embassy walls in Cairo over prophet 'insult' (+video)
Protesters reacted angrily to Egyptian media reports of a film produced in the US that mocks the prophet Muhammad.

By Kristen Chick, Correspondent / September 11, 2012



Hundreds of protesters gathered in front of the embassy, alternating religious slogans with chants against the US or President Obama. Some climbed over the wall and tore down the American flag, raising instead a black flag with an Islamic inscription that is often associated with Islamic extremists.

"Insulting [the prophet] is like insulting every Muslim citizen across the world," he says. "We cannot accept that this is a kind of freedom" in the US.

He says he demanded that Egypt withdraw citizenship from anyone who worked on the film. He also had demands for the US to "stop these actions, and understand that [insulting the prophet] is a special case."

"There is a new situation after the revolution in Egypt," he says. "We cannot accept this kind of insulting. The relationship between the US and Egypt could be affected by this kind of attitude."

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Middle-East/2012/0911/Protesters-scale-US-embassy-walls-in-Cairo-over-prophet-insult-video



In Egypt, Libya fierce clashes cause damage, death (+video)

Response to a U.S. film protestors say insulted the Prophet Mohammad lead to the death of one American and injured others in Benghazi, Libya. Protestors demanded the movie be banned and asked for an apology.

"One American staff member has died and a number have been injured in the clashes," Abdel-Monem Al-Hurr, spokesman for Libya's Supreme Security Committee, said, adding he did not know the exact number of injured or what the cause of death was.

The violence in Benghazi followed protests in neighboring Egypt where protesters scaled the walls of the Cairo embassy and tore down the American flag and burned it during protests over what demonstrators said was a U.S. film that insulted the Prophet Mohammad.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Latest-News-Wires/2012/0911/In-Egypt-Libya-fierce-clashes-cause-damage-death-video



In Benghazi, Reuters reporters on the scene could see looters raiding the empty U.S. consulate's compound, walking off with desks, chairs and washing machines.

Unknown gunmen were shooting at the buildings, while others threw handmade bombs into the compound, setting off small explosions. Small fires were burning around the compound.

Passersby entered the unsecured compound to take pictures with their mobile phones and watch the looting.


« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 09:55:24 AM by Molly »

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11313
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #427 on: September 12, 2012, 12:44:35 PM »
CNN reporting


America's ambassador to Libya has been killed in that violence over some stupid movie.


arrrrgh!  Thanks Hillary and Barry!  You have SO made the world a safer place.


Let's close the embassy permenantly and use the money to make 10000 movies.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 12:50:00 PM by Molly »

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11313
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #428 on: September 12, 2012, 01:03:11 PM »
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_SIIxholL4

rest in peace Chris Stevens, US Ambassador to Libya

rest in peace Freedom of Speech


CNN three other state dept workers have been killed as well


Islamic group fired rockets at them.  Embassy seems to be burning to the ground from pictures.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 01:06:57 PM by Molly »

Doug

  • Guest
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #429 on: September 12, 2012, 02:09:51 PM »
Rev 20:2  And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand(chiloi- thousand) years,

Rev 5:11  And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands(chilias-thousands) of thousands;

Most Greek texts have χίλια ἔτη, a thousand years, in Revelation 20:1-7.

But the Tischendorf 8th Edition of the Greek New Testament, the expression χίλιοι ἔτος is used, thousands of years.

If chilioi is the correct word, the idea that Christ will return to reign upon earth for one thousand years is undermined. But Revelation 20 does not say Christ reigns for one thousand years; it is saints who are beheaded and who do not worship the beast who reign with him for a thousand years. Many scriptures say Christ's reign is forever. The notion  that his reign ends in general rebellion, is contrary to this prophecy of Isaiah: "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever." [Isa. 9:7]

Doug

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13135
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #430 on: September 12, 2012, 02:49:03 PM »
Quote
Many scriptures say Christ's reign is forever.
Using the same word that are usually used to prove hell isn't everlasting.
Plus we are told Jesus hands over His Kingdom to Father. That sounds like the end of Jesus' reign.

Quote
The notion  that his reign ends in general rebellion, is contrary to this prophecy of Isaiah: "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever." [Isa. 9:7]
Interesting verse Doug. Unfortunately it add even more confusion...

Satan is locked up. Jesus rules. And then 'suddenly'  satan is allowed messing up things.
The way I understand it satan doesn't escape but is released (on authority of Father/Son)
Again part of the Plan?

Jesus rules until all enemies are under His feet. The word 'until' gives two pieces of information.
The rule ends when all enemies are defeated.
Enemies are defeated gradually. The 1000 years are not complete peace. But more like increasing peace.
Quote
The notion  that his reign ends in general rebellion
If there is total peace and people all are saints who are part of that final rebellion?
Quote
increase of his government
This also shows His kingdom isn't 100% peacefull from the start.
So perhaps the final rebellion  is just part of the submitting process that went on for a 1000 year.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Doug

  • Guest
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #431 on: September 12, 2012, 03:50:25 PM »
Quote
Many scriptures say Christ's reign is forever.
Using the same word that are usually used to prove hell isn't everlasting.


Which word is that? Does it appear in the following scripture?

"Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end"

Plus we are told Jesus hands over His Kingdom to Father. That sounds like the end of Jesus' reign.


Or maybe not.

1 Corinthians 15:24-26
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.


Quote
The notion  that his reign ends in general rebellion, is contrary to this prophecy of Isaiah: "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever." [Isa. 9:7]
Interesting verse Doug. Unfortunately it add even more confusion...

Satan is locked up. Jesus rules. And then 'suddenly'  satan is allowed messing up things.
The way I understand it satan doesn't escape but is released (on authority of Father/Son)
Again part of the Plan?

Satan is the "strong man" that was bound by Jesus. And Jesus said to his disciples,

Matthew 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

In the lives of the apostles, and saints, Satan was bound, but he was still active in the rest of the world. He had some influence upon Ananias.

Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

So Satan is bound, in respect to individuals. Peter said, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" [1 Peter 5:8]

He is pictured ascending out of his pit, as saints become seduced by him. The apostles warned about this.

James wrote: "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." [James 4:7]

Jesus rules until all enemies are under His feet. The word 'until' gives two pieces of information.
The rule ends when all enemies are defeated.


Why? I would think that it is the warfare that ends.

Enemies are defeated gradually. The 1000 years are not complete peace. But more like increasing peace.

The Old Testament describes the reigns of the kings of Israel and of Judah, which are examples for the instruction of Christians. Some of those kings sought God, and followed his ways; some did not. IMO, the thousand years in Rev. 20 is a symbolic number that represents the reigns of individual believers. Like the reigns of those ancient kings, some are longer, some more illustrious, than others.

Quote
The notion  that his reign ends in general rebellion
If there is total peace and people all are saints who are part of that final rebellion?

Some of the most active and influential opponents of the Christian faith and the Bible are ex-Christians. This has been true throughout the history of the church. They turn others against the church.

Quote
increase of his government
This also shows His kingdom isn't 100% peacefull from the start.
So perhaps the final rebellion  is just part of the submitting process that went on for a 1000 year.

There have been rebels since the first century, and some are mentioned in the New Testament. Acts 8:18-24 describes the incident where Simon the sorcerer offered money, to receive the power given to Peter.

Peter described the false teachers in 2 Peter 2. He said there would be many.

2 Peter 2
18 For when they speak great swelling words of vanity, they allure through the lusts of the flesh, through much wantonness, those that were clean escaped from them who live in error.
19 While they promise them liberty, they themselves are the servants of corruption: for of whom a man is overcome, of the same is he brought in bondage.
20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.

John referred to power-seeking men who rejected the authority of the apostles.

3 John 1:9
I wrote unto the church: but Diotrephes, who loveth to have the preeminence among them, receiveth us not.

The antichrist spirit was already present in the church.

Doug

Doug

  • Guest
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #432 on: September 12, 2012, 04:38:49 PM »
Quote from: Doug
This seems to be a parallel to the things John described in Revelation 20:8-9, where people who are deceived come against the camp of the saints, and the beloved city, which is the church.



8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

--Rev 20



These people are not christians, and never were.  Their names are not written in the book of life.  They worshipped the beast.


In prophecy, human governments are represented by animals, usually predatory ones. The ancient kingdom of Babylon was represented by a lion, Persia by a bear, the hellenistic Greek kingdoms by a leopard with four heads, and Rome by a terrible beast with ten horns. In Revelation 13, John combines all these in a composite beast, that seems to represent human government. The total number of heads and horns in John's beast is equal to those of the four beasts of Daniel 7. And governments in all nations today incorporate elements derived from those ancient powers. Democracy, for example, is a word that comes from the Greek dēmokratía, popular government. The economic, philosophical, religious, legal, and military traditions of the nations of the world today are largely derived from those ancient world empires.

The governments of Britain, Canada, the USA, and other modern nations are likely included in the "beast" in Revelation 13. Where does the word "senate" originate? Rome. "The modern word senate is derived from the Latin word senātus (senate), which comes from senex, 'old man.' The members or legislators of a senate are called senators. The Latin word senator was adopted into English with no change in spelling.... The original senate was the Roman Senate, which lasted until 580 (various efforts to revive it were made in Medieval Rome). In the Eastern Roman Empire, the Byzantine Senate continued until the Fourth Crusade, circa 1202–1204." - Wikipedia.

Revelation 13:7
And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

In WW1 and WW2, "Christians" fought against each other; German Protestants and Catholics fought against English and American Protestants and Catholics. Their armies no doubt included devout believers on each side. They were "overcome" by the beast!

Political parties in the USA employ animals as their emblems, or as their logos, the Republicans an elephant, and the Democrats a kicking donkey. The government is represented by either one of these, or both at the same time, as when the powers are divided.

In scripture all human governments are represented by a "beast."

All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.  Rev 13:8

Right.

Doug

Offline Paul L

  • Est
  • *
  • Posts: 259
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #433 on: September 12, 2012, 05:03:50 PM »

Enemies are defeated gradually. The 1000 years are not complete peace. But more like increasing peace.
 
This also shows His kingdom isn't 100% peacefull from the start.
So perhaps the final rebellion  is just part of the submitting process that went on for a 1000 year.

Your above synopsis about the Millenium is about right on the money. The entirety of the book of Ezekiel is critical to the understanding of the Millenium. The Millenium is the time of the regathering of the northern ten tribes to Israel, which most of these ten tribes are reluctant to do, this is what the entirety of the book of Ezekial is about (the Millenium) . The scattered  ten tribes do not view Israel as a safe place to return to even after they've seen the defeat of Israel's false messiah at Armegeddon (Megiddo), they may even be thinking this new guy is also a false messiah, they need to be convinced.

The northern ten tribes have been scattered all throughout the nations, & after AntiChrist's system has been destroyed at Christ's coming, the world order of nations is thrown back into the stone age. Modern commerce as we know it today will cease completely, the world's population will be a fraction of what it was before the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.

You can bet there will be no electronic communications systems, weapons of battle will become sticks & stones because factories once producing today's weapons of mass destruction have been destroyed & the transportation system will be horse & buggy, and your feet. Realize the fact that many of those ten tribes returning to Israel  will be carried on the backs of those who were once their Gentile hosts, that's quite a telling picture of the condition of the world during the Millenium.

For a thousand years the 12 tribes of Israel will rebuild their country, they become esconced safely in their land & wouldn't you know it but what Gog & Magog don't like what they see in a country now becoming much more prosperous than themselves. They see there are no armies defending the borders of Israel or within the nation itself, easy pickings so they think, so they conjure up an invasion force (Ezek 38 & 39). Just as Israel has had a thousand years to rebuild their country, the gentile nations have also had a thousand years to rebuild theirs, out of stone age materials. They come against the mountains of Israel with such great quantities of wooden built materials that northern Israelites don't need firewood for a long time.

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13135
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #434 on: September 12, 2012, 05:07:52 PM »
Quote
Many scriptures say Christ's reign is forever.
Using the same word that are usually used to prove hell isn't everlasting.

Which word is that?
She bolded words.

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the increase of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David's throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever/olam. The zeal of the LORD Almighty will accomplish this." Isaiah 9:6-7

(2Pet 1:11) For so the entrance will be furnished to you abundantly into the eternal/aiōnios kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

(Rev 11:15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever/aiōn and everever/aiōn.


Quote
Does it appear in the following scripture?

"Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end"
(Isa 9:7) Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, on the throne of David, and on his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from now on even for ever/olam. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

But obviously you are pointing to "no end". I can't explain that otherwise than the verse sounds impossible.
A kingdom without an end can exist.
"increase of .... peace there shall be no end"
How can peace keep increasing if there is already total peace?





Quote
Plus we are told Jesus hands over His Kingdom to Father. That sounds like the end of Jesus' reign.


Or maybe not.
Can you explain why he verse you quoted below (maybe) shows Jesus' reign never ends?

Quote
1 Corinthians 15:24-26
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.



Quote

Quote
The notion  that his reign ends in general rebellion, is contrary to this prophecy of Isaiah: "Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever." [Isa. 9:7]
Interesting verse Doug. Unfortunately it add even more confusion...

Satan is locked up. Jesus rules. And then 'suddenly'  satan is allowed messing up things.
The way I understand it satan doesn't escape but is released (on authority of Father/Son)
Again part of the Plan?

Satan is the "strong man" that was bound by Jesus. And Jesus said to his disciples,

Matthew 18:18
Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

In the lives of the apostles, and saints, Satan was bound, but he was still active in the rest of the world. He had some influence upon Ananias.

Acts 5:3
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?

So Satan is bound, in respect to individuals. Peter said, "Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:" [1 Peter 5:8]

He is pictured ascending out of his pit, as saints become seduced by him. The apostles warned about this.

James wrote: "Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you." [James 4:7]
Do I correctly summarize your view as follows?
Saints are immume to the things of satan. Their holiness restrains/chains satan.
But not so for the unholy people. On them satan has the same effect he had since creation.


Quote
Enemies are defeated gradually. The 1000 years are not complete peace. But more like increasing peace.

The Old Testament describes the reigns of the kings of Israel and of Judah, which are examples for the instruction of Christians. Some of those kings sought God, and followed his ways; some did not. IMO, the thousand years in Rev. 20 is a symbolic number that represents the reigns of individual believers. Like the reigns of those ancient kings, some are longer, some more illustrious, than others.
That's not far from my point.
No matter if it's about individuals, kingdoms or shome other group of people they are not yet submitted to Jesus for some reason. But Jesus keeps trying until He succeeds to establish world peace.
That may take exactly a literal 1000 years, 1000 days or 1000 millenia. Let's not argue about that right now.


I deleted the last part of your reply because I either didn't understand it or it's just repeating previously made points. But if you want I'll reply anyway. But that would be just repeating what I wrote above :-)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3831
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #435 on: September 12, 2012, 05:09:59 PM »
 man in the corrupt image is always a beast[you have no life in yourself]Nebuchaddnezer given mind of beast for seven times.

  as we have all bore the image of the corruptible..so,too shall we all bear the image of the incorruptible.

  until man be wetted with the dew of heaven[annointed with spirit] and claim...that it is God who rules

   thus a new name that is recorded in the book of life...and death of the corrupt image

Offline sheila

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3831
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #436 on: September 12, 2012, 05:19:57 PM »
the seven trumpets are the seven 'times' that pass before the mind of the beast is wetted with the dew of heaven..and in contrition confesses it is God who reigns

   also seven thunders is seven judgements of God..on prince of this world and wicked works...of which Jesus testified John 7;7  theworld can not hate you,

  but it hates me  BECAUSE I TESTIFY THAT WHAT IT DOES IS EVIL

  be careful,less you devour one another[like beasts]



Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 13135
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #437 on: September 12, 2012, 05:23:19 PM »

Enemies are defeated gradually. The 1000 years are not complete peace. But more like increasing peace.
 
This also shows His kingdom isn't 100% peacefull from the start.
So perhaps the final rebellion  is just part of the submitting process that went on for a 1000 year.

Your above synopsis about the Millenium is about right on the money. The entirety of the book of Ezekiel is critical to the understanding of the Millenium. The Millenium is the time of the regathering of the northern ten tribes to Israel, which most of these ten tribes are reluctant to do, this is what the entirety of the book of Ezekial is about (the Millenium) .
Who are the 10 lost tribes is a very complex debate. By that I'm not meaning list with names from the OT, but which persons are part of those tribes. Say I have a few drops of Jewish blood. Perhaps even 20%. But if I truely don't know that why would I feel called to move to Israel?
Can't it "just" be becoming a believer in YHWH and follow His laws instead of moving to Israel.
A spiritual Israel. Besides of that Israel is to small. Assume 1 biljon Christians immigrate to Israel.
I think most children would be born in a stable :P
Quote
The northern ten tribes have been scattered all throughout the nations, & after AntiChrist's system has been destroyed at Christ's coming, the world order of nations is thrown back into the stone age. Modern commerce as we know it today will cease completely, the world's population will be a fraction of what it was before the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.

You can bet there will be no electronic communications systems, weapons of battle will become sticks & stones because factories once producing today's weapons of mass destruction have been destroyed & the transportation system will be horse & buggy, and your feet. Realize the fact that many of those ten tribes returning to Israel  will be carried on the backs of those who were once their Gentile hosts, that's quite a telling picture of the condition of the world during the Millenium.

For a thousand years the 12 tribes of Israel will rebuild their country, they become esconced safely in their land & wouldn't you know it but what Gog & Magog don't like what they see in a country now becoming much more prosperous than themselves. They see there are no armies defending the borders of Israel or within the nation itself, easy pickings so they think, so they conjure up an invasion force (Ezek 38 & 39). Just as Israel has had a thousand years to rebuild their country, the gentile nations have also had a thousand years to rebuild theirs, out of stone age materials. They come against the mountains of Israel with such great quantities of wooden built materials that northern Israelites don't need firewood for a long time.
It took far less than a thousand years to go from bow and arrow to all the stuff the army has today. Plus, even if each and every weapon and factory is destroyed the knowledge still exists.

Quote
They see there are no armies defending the borders of Israel or within the nation itself, easy pickings so they think
Surely it takes them less than a 1000 years to notice that....?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11313
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #438 on: September 12, 2012, 05:28:03 PM »
Quote from: Doug
1 Corinthians 15:24-26
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

I think Paul is finessing a few ages here.  It's obvious this doesn't happen until after the 1000 years at least because that's when death and hell are thrown into the lake of fire, at the second resurrection.

Quote from: Paul
Realize the fact that many of those ten tribes returning to Israel will be carried on the backs of those who were once their Gentile hosts, that's quite a telling picture of the condition of the world during the Millenium.

Where do you see this in scripture?  And, also where do you see the rest of the world will be in the stone age?

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11313
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #439 on: September 12, 2012, 05:31:33 PM »
Quote from: ww
Who are the 10 lost tribes is a very complex debate. By that I'm not meaning list with names from the OT, but which persons are part of those tribes. Say I have a few drops of Jewish blood. Perhaps even 20%. But if I truely don't know that why would I feel called to move to Israel?
Can't it "just" be becoming a believer in YHWH and follow His laws instead of moving to Israel.
A spiritual Israel. Besides of that Israel is to small. Assume 1 biljon Christians immigrate to Israel.
I think most children would be born in a stable :P

God would know who his people are.  I think they will re-establish the borders of Israel to the original tract of land given to Abraham, from the Nile to the Euphrates, and then God will turn it into the garden of Eden.   I have to admit it doesn't really interest me, either, but Jesus will be there, so that changes the equation.

I keep forgetting that once we accept Christ, we are no longer Gentiles.

Offline sheila

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3831
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #440 on: September 12, 2012, 05:48:33 PM »
Zechariah 13;7 strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered, and I will turn my hand against the little ones. In the whole land 2/3 will be struck down

  the third I will bring into the fire.I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. they will call on my name,and I will answer them

  I will say..they are my people and they will say....the Lord is our God

Offline Paul L

  • Est
  • *
  • Posts: 259
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #441 on: September 12, 2012, 11:54:21 PM »

Quote from: Paul
Realize the fact that many of those ten tribes returning to Israel will be carried on the backs of those who were once their Gentile hosts, that's quite a telling picture of the condition of the world during the Millenium.

Where do you see this in scripture?  And, also where do you see the rest of the world will be in the stone age?

Ezek 39:9-10 is a description of the materials of the weapons of war Gog & Magog used against Israel at the conclusion of the Millenium. There was enough wood to be burned for the kindling of fires by the saints of Israel that the people did not need to cut down a single tree in Israel for seven years. That's a lot of wood. These described weapons cannot be of the type used in present day warfare, metal does not burn & thus cannot be used for kindling. These are stone age weapons materials.

The technology, knowledge, skills & experienced tradesman required to craft weapons as we know them today have been with us for only 150 years. It  took thousands of years of development  in human history before we graduated from weapons described in verse 9,  the end of AntiChrist's rule will create a knowledge gap that God will not allow humankind to recover from, thus we have Gog & Magog  coming to Israel with the types of weapons described in verse 9.

Unable to locate the passage that states to the effect that the gentile nations will be found carrying Israelites back to Israel. I did read just the other day, thought it was in Ezekiel but I guess maybe not.

Offline thinktank

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2672
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #442 on: September 13, 2012, 12:35:29 AM »
Quote from: ww
Who are the 10 lost tribes is a very complex debate. By that I'm not meaning list with names from the OT, but which persons are part of those tribes. Say I have a few drops of Jewish blood. Perhaps even 20%. But if I truely don't know that why would I feel called to move to Israel?
Can't it "just" be becoming a believer in YHWH and follow His laws instead of moving to Israel.
A spiritual Israel. Besides of that Israel is to small. Assume 1 biljon Christians immigrate to Israel.
I think most children would be born in a stable :P

God would know who his people are.  I think they will re-establish the borders of Israel to the original tract of land given to Abraham, from the Nile to the Euphrates, and then God will turn it into the garden of Eden.   I have to admit it doesn't really interest me, either, but Jesus will be there, so that changes the equation.

I keep forgetting that once we accept Christ, we are no longer Gentiles.


That's where Gog and others come in folks. God annhilates the nations surrounding Israel BEFORE Armageddon, allowing the Israelites to come back to Israel.

MTH; says GO Ye out and meet the bridegroom, the bridegroom is in  Jerusalem. The ones who refused to return had their lamps blown out and therefore did not make it to the promised land and were shut out, as Jesus said ye will se Abrahma but ye yourselfs shut out.


Offline reFORMer

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 1943
  • Gender: Male
  • Psalm 133
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #443 on: September 13, 2012, 06:12:12 AM »

Ezek 39:9-10 is a description of the materials of the weapons of war Gog & Magog used against Israel at the conclusion of the Millenium. There was enough wood to be burned for the kindling of fires by the saints of Israel that the people did not need to cut down a single tree in Israel for seven years. That's a lot of wood. These described weapons cannot be of the type used in present day warfare, metal does not burn & thus cannot be used for kindling. These are stone age weapons materials.

The technology, knowledge, skills & experienced tradesman required to craft weapons as we know them today have been with us for only 150 years. It  took thousands of years of development  in human history before we graduated from weapons described in verse 9,  the end of AntiChrist's rule will create a knowledge gap that God will not allow humankind to recover from, thus we have Gog & Magog  coming to Israel with the types of weapons described in verse 9.
About 40 years ago there was a (Chick?) tract that explained this fulfillment of prophecy, in that Soviets had developed a material from super compressed wood that was lighter and more resilient than steel and burned better than coal.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline Paul L

  • Est
  • *
  • Posts: 259
  • Gender: Male
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #444 on: September 13, 2012, 01:22:34 PM »

Ezek 39:9-10 is a description of the materials of the weapons of war Gog & Magog used against Israel at the conclusion of the Millenium. There was enough wood to be burned for the kindling of fires by the saints of Israel that the people did not need to cut down a single tree in Israel for seven years. That's a lot of wood. These described weapons cannot be of the type used in present day warfare, metal does not burn & thus cannot be used for kindling. These are stone age weapons materials.

The technology, knowledge, skills & experienced tradesman required to craft weapons as we know them today have been with us for only 150 years. It  took thousands of years of development  in human history before we graduated from weapons described in verse 9,  the end of AntiChrist's rule will create a knowledge gap that God will not allow humankind to recover from, thus we have Gog & Magog  coming to Israel with the types of weapons described in verse 9.
About 40 years ago there was a (Chick?) tract that explained this fulfillment of prophecy, in that Soviets had developed a material from super compressed wood that was lighter and more resilient than steel and burned better than coal.

It wouldn't matter, you can't make gun barrels from wood or any kind of composite materials. Gun barrels require "rifling" of the barrel to generate spinning action of the projectile to maintain accurate trajectory, can only do this with the high heat durability of steel which is readily machined for "rifling". The military in all countries have even ceased making gunstocks from wood because composite materials are lighter than wood and do not readily break down from heat generated by repeating action from the gun barrels onto which they are mounted.  You can't build tanks from wood, nor rockets & missiles. Not much left you can make from wood in modern weapons technology is there?

Doug

  • Guest
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #445 on: September 13, 2012, 05:00:34 PM »

Ezek 39:9-10 is a description of the materials of the weapons of war Gog & Magog used against Israel at the conclusion of the Millenium. There was enough wood to be burned for the kindling of fires by the saints of Israel that the people did not need to cut down a single tree in Israel for seven years. That's a lot of wood. These described weapons cannot be of the type used in present day warfare, metal does not burn & thus cannot be used for kindling. These are stone age weapons materials.

The technology, knowledge, skills & experienced tradesman required to craft weapons as we know them today have been with us for only 150 years. It  took thousands of years of development  in human history before we graduated from weapons described in verse 9,  the end of AntiChrist's rule will create a knowledge gap that God will not allow humankind to recover from, thus we have Gog & Magog  coming to Israel with the types of weapons described in verse 9.
About 40 years ago there was a (Chick?) tract that explained this fulfillment of prophecy, in that Soviets had developed a material from super compressed wood that was lighter and more resilient than steel and burned better than coal.

It wouldn't matter, you can't make gun barrels from wood or any kind of composite materials. Gun barrels require "rifling" of the barrel to generate spinning action of the projectile to maintain accurate trajectory, can only do this with the high heat durability of steel which is readily machined for "rifling". The military in all countries have even ceased making gunstocks from wood because composite materials are lighter than wood and do not readily break down from heat generated by repeating action from the gun barrels onto which they are mounted.  You can't build tanks from wood, nor rockets & missiles. Not much left you can make from wood in modern weapons technology is there?

Isaiah said,

Isaiah 2:2-4
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the Lord, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the Lord from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

If this prophecy describes the millennium, as the dispensationalists say, how can there be a rebellion at the end of it, where hordes of people come against the land of Israel, "horses and horsemen, all of them clothed with all sorts of armour, even a great company with bucklers and shields, all of them handling swords: ... all of them with shield and helmet"? Also among the weapons are shields and bucklers, bows and arrows, handstaves, and spears. [Ezek. 39:11]

If the nations in the millennium do not learn war any more, how is it that after a thousand years of Christ's reign, they organize themselves into armies, and invade the promised land, looking for "silver and gold," and "cattle and goods," and a great spoil?

How come, if "nation shall not lift up sword against nation" in the millennium, these invaders from various nations at the end of the millennium are all equipped with swords?

Doug

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11313
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #446 on: September 13, 2012, 05:01:52 PM »
well, I don't know what to say, when you can read the news right out of the Bible before it even happens...


 :umnick:





Smoke rising from US embassy compound in Yemen: Sky Arabia
By Gerry Davies || September 13, 2012 at 08:34 GMT
|| 1 comment || Add comment
Oh dear…..

UPDATE: Yemeni demonstrators storm the US embassy in Yemeni capital Sanaa, security forces open fire.

Doug

  • Guest
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #447 on: September 13, 2012, 05:13:09 PM »
well, I don't know what to say, when you can read the news right out of the Bible before it even happens...


 :umnick:



Smoke rising from US embassy compound in Yemen: Sky Arabia
By Gerry Davies || September 13, 2012 at 08:34 GMT
|| 1 comment || Add comment
Oh dear…..

UPDATE: Yemeni demonstrators storm the US embassy in Yemeni capital Sanaa, security forces open fire.

Look at that smoke rising from the wreck of the theory of dispensationalism!

Doug

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11313
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #448 on: September 13, 2012, 05:22:08 PM »
well, I don't know what to say, when you can read the news right out of the Bible before it even happens...


 :umnick:



Smoke rising from US embassy compound in Yemen: Sky Arabia
By Gerry Davies || September 13, 2012 at 08:34 GMT
|| 1 comment || Add comment
Oh dear…..

UPDATE: Yemeni demonstrators storm the US embassy in Yemeni capital Sanaa, security forces open fire.

Look at that smoke rising from the wreck of the theory of dispensationalism!

Doug

I'm just a simple country girl.

I don't know what dispensationalism is so I don't understand your statement.

But, do you think God has put that hook into the mouth of Leviathan, yet?


 :umnick:



CNN:  Live shots being fired now, situation getting more and more tense

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11313
Re: Prophecy
« Reply #449 on: September 13, 2012, 05:34:58 PM »
Strange how all hell breaks loose right after Mr. O. snubs Israel.

 :umnick:




Obama 'snubs' Israeli leader on US visit
by Matt Spetalnick and Allyn Fisher-Ilan, September 13 2012


WASHINGTON — In a highly unusual rebuff to a close ally as tension increases over how to deal with Iran's nuclear program, the White House has said President Barack Obama would not meet Benjamin Netanyahu during the Israeli prime minister's US visit later this month.


http://www.bdlive.co.za/world/americas/2012/09/13/obama-snubs-israeli-leader-on-us-visit
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 05:38:19 PM by Molly »