Author Topic: Prophecy  (Read 231437 times)

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Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #400 on: September 11, 2012, 06:25:26 PM »
Quote
A large Gog-Magog battle that starts the "end-time"

Does this go on for 3.5 years?  Because Daniel starts counting from the time Jerusalem is invaded, and Jesus returns at the end of the Gog-Magog war.

As I just pointed out to WhiteWings, the Gog-Magog war occurs at the conclusion of the Millenium. Please folks, just read Rev 20:7-9, it is crystal clear when this occurs, Armegeddon is by now over a thousand years in the past & AntiChrist has been dispatched into the pages of history never to return.
Why 1000 years in the past. Why not now or 1000 year into the future?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #401 on: September 11, 2012, 06:35:27 PM »
Quote
A large Gog-Magog battle that starts the "end-time"

Does this go on for 3.5 years?  Because Daniel starts counting from the time Jerusalem is invaded, and Jesus returns at the end of the Gog-Magog war.
I don't know the exact duration of the wars but imo they all are short. But as with most wars they cause shortage (food/water) and illness. So the effects last much longer.
In the past the duration of a war had relation to the severity and number of deaths.
Today that's far less so. NBC/ABC weapons can cause massive amounts of deaths in just a few hours.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #402 on: September 11, 2012, 08:12:34 PM »
Quote from: ww
1335 days until Hanukah.

Hanukah = Festival of lights = Feast of rededication


In about 167 BC  Antiochus Epiphanes conquered Jerusalem and put a Zeus statue in the Holies of Holies and offered a swine on the altar of burned offering.
The Jews revolted (Maccabees)  and won. Rededication of the Temple started and was completed at the end of the 1335 days

On the 24th day of the ninth month [Kislev] of the Jewish calendar, the day before Hanukkah, two previous battles were won:  defeat of the syrian army and recapture of the temple 165 bC, and british capture of Jerusalem from the turks 1917.

Haggai names this date as the day of God's victory over the invading endtimes army.



20 And again the word of the Lord came unto Haggai in the four and twentieth day of the month, saying,
 
21 Speak to Zerubbabel, governor of Judah, saying, I will shake the heavens and the earth;
 
22 And I will overthrow the throne of kingdoms, and I will destroy the strength of the kingdoms of the heathen; and I will overthrow the chariots, and those that ride in them; and the horses and their riders shall come down, every one by the sword of his brother.
 
23 In that day, saith the Lord of hosts, will I take thee, O Zerubbabel, my servant, the son of Shealtiel, saith the Lord, and will make thee as a signet: for I have chosen thee, saith the Lord of hosts.

--Haggi 2
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 08:23:21 PM by Molly »

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #403 on: September 11, 2012, 11:18:15 PM »
Quote
A large Gog-Magog battle that starts the "end-time"

Does this go on for 3.5 years?  Because Daniel starts counting from the time Jerusalem is invaded, and Jesus returns at the end of the Gog-Magog war.

As I just pointed out to WhiteWings, the Gog-Magog war occurs at the conclusion of the Millenium. Please folks, just read Rev 20:7-9, it is crystal clear when this occurs, Armegeddon is by now over a thousand years in the past & AntiChrist has been dispatched into the pages of history never to return.

Quote
Why 1000 years in the past. Why not now or 1000 year into the future?

I guess the best answer would because God says so. He picks the times & seasons to suit himself, not our personal conveniences. If God were to try & pick times & seasons to suit the personal conveniences of trillions of bickering human beings, I imagine even he would become a bit weary for the task at hand.

God has written down the chronology of Old Testament prophecy in Revelation, instructs John to deliver it to the seven ecclesias on the first day of the Day of the Lord & I have no desire to quibble with it. God is a little bigger & a little smarter than I am, but I figure I can at least be a little smarter than the people of House of Israel, listen to God & not be so stiff-necked & just accept the order of things.

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #404 on: September 12, 2012, 12:26:41 AM »
THAT 1000 YR4 DAY OF THE lORD..WHAT DOES IT MEAN.....

   EXODUS 20;6 AND DEUT 5;10  GIVES CLARIFICATION

...BUT SHOWING LOVE TO A THOUSAND GENERATIONS OF THOSE WHO LOVE ME AND KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS

Offline lomarah

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #405 on: September 12, 2012, 12:50:22 AM »
Sheila does that mean the thousand year reign isn't a literal thousand years of reigning but rather symbolic in nature? I've been wondering about that for awhile.
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #406 on: September 12, 2012, 01:20:41 AM »
Quote
Why 1000 years in the past. Why not now or 1000 year into the future?

I guess the best answer would because God says so.
Where did God say so?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #407 on: September 12, 2012, 01:22:08 AM »
Some examples of the use of "a thousand" in scripture are:

Psalm 50:10
For every beast of the forest is mine, and the cattle upon a thousand hills.

1 Chronicles 16:15
Be ye mindful always of his covenant; the word which he commanded to a thousand generations;

Psalm 90:4
For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.

Psalm 105:8
He hath remembered his covenant for ever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations.
   
2 Peter 3:8
But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Practically every time period mentioned in Revelation is figurative, and the thousand years is no exception, IMO.

According to several scholars, Johann Albrecht Bengel (1687-1752) was the person most responsible for reviving chiliasm amongst scholars in Germany in the 18th century. Bengel became famous for his edition of the Greek New Testament, and his commentaries. Franz Delitzsch wrote of him, "To whom else do we owe it, that the orthodox Church of the present time does not brand the Chiliastic view of the last times as a heterodoxy, as is done in almost all old manuals of dogmatics; but, on the contrary, has allowed it to enter into her innermost life, so that there is scarcely a believing Christian now, who does not take this view?"

Bengel insisted that the thousand years of Revelation 20 should be taken literally, and denounced those who disagreed with his interpretation. He wrote: "… he who embraces the Divine authority of the Apocalypse, must also of necessity admit the thousand years in some sense. … But there are some who, compelled by this Text, acknowledge that there is to be a remarkable and long-continued tranquility of the Church, and maintain this with impunity. How with impunity? On account of this one thing, that they remove from their mouth the thousand years which have proceeded from the mouth of God. It is of no advantage thus to alarm good men. But these thousand years do not run on even a step simultaneously with the times of the beast, nor do they altogether precede those times, but totally follow them." [Johann Albrecht Bengel. Gnomon of the New Testament, Volume 5 (1858). pp. 364-365.]

Bengel struggled to overcome an odium that was connected with chiliasm, because of its condemnation in the Augsburg Confession of 1530, where it was referred to as a "Jewish opinion." The 17th article included the paragraph:

They condemn the Anabaptists who think that to condemned men and the devils shall be an end of torments. They condemn others also, who now scatter Jewish opinions, that, before the resurrection of the dead, the godly shall occupy the kingdom of the world, the wicked being every where suppressed [the saints alone, the pious, shall have a worldly kingdom, and shall exterminate all the godless].

Events in the years 1533-1535 only seemed to confirm the pernicious nature of the doctrine of chiliasm. During that period the city of Munster in Westphalia was declared to be "new Jerusalem" after a group of Annabaptists gained control of the city council. Owen Chadwick described how Dutch prophet and ex-innkeeper, John of Leyden, was "proclaimed King of New Zion, wore vestments as his royal robes, and held his court and throne in the market-place. Laws were decreed to establish community of goods, and the Old Testament was adduced to permit polygamy. Bernard Rothman, once a man of sense, once the friend of Melanchthon, took nine wives." Meanwhile, the Bishop of Munster collected an army and began the siege of the city. Chadwick described the events that followed: [Owen Chadwick, The Reformation (New York: Penguin Books, 1997) pp. 190-191.]

They now believed they had been given the duty and the power of exterminating the ungodly. The world would perish, and only Munster would be saved. Rothman issued a public incitement to world rebellion: 'Dear brethren, arm yourselves for the battle, not only with the humble weapons of the apostles for suffering, but also with the glorious armour of David for vengeance…in God's strength, and help annihilate the ungodly.' An ex-soldier named John of Geelen slipped out of the city, carrying copies of this proclamation into the Netherlands, and planned sudden coups in the Dutch cities…. At last, on 25 June 1535, the gates of Munster were opened by sane men within the walls, and the bishop's army entered the city. The cages where the corpses of Anabaptist leaders were hung are still hanging on the tower of St. Lambert's Church.

Bengel was a notorious date-setter, and he predicted the second coming and the start of the millennium in 1836. He had a considerable influence on John Wesley (1703–1791).

Doug

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #408 on: September 12, 2012, 01:26:50 AM »
I think so..Lomorrah....I think it symbolizes the full sentence of death in the flesh of the corruptible image and 1000years/generations

  raised up inChrist. OF ALL MEN into the incorruptible image.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #409 on: September 12, 2012, 01:39:43 AM »
Quote from: Doug
Practically every time period mentioned in Revelation is figurative, and the thousand years is no exception, IMO.

I don't think so.  Otherwise, why would daniel say, when you see the armies standing in Jerusalem, start counting the days, 1260,1290, etc  Daniel is very specific and the book of revelation just quotes Daniel.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #410 on: September 12, 2012, 01:42:10 AM »
I think so..Lomorrah....I think it symbolizes the full sentence of death in the flesh of the corruptible image and 1000years/generations

  raised up inChrist. OF ALL MEN into the incorruptible image.

Problem is, Sheila, you are looking thousands of years down the road, and I'm trying to look at the next 4 months.

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #411 on: September 12, 2012, 01:44:15 AM »
another reason I think so.  bride price for sarah 10000 peices of silver...that she was untouched. and in songs of songs the 1000 shekels of silver

 each was to bring for the fruit of the vineyard. God says 'and this is all the fruit..when you take away6 all their sin.  only Christ can do that for

  his vineyard.  in the law 1/5 of the value was to be added to anything redeemed...song states...and 200 are for those who tend it's fruit...

   the Lord is all about increasing

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #412 on: September 12, 2012, 01:57:44 AM »
Quote from: Doug
Practically every time period mentioned in Revelation is figurative, and the thousand years is no exception, IMO.

I don't think so.  Otherwise, why would daniel say, when you see the armies standing in Jerusalem, start counting the days, 1260,1290, etc  Daniel is very specific and the book of revelation just quotes Daniel.

Daniel also said none of the wicked would understand his prophecies. So it does not appear reasonable that these periods would be literal days, as in that case anyone could figure it out.

Each of these numbers refer to events of a spiritual nature, to which earth days, earth months, and earth years would not apply. 

Doug

Offline lomarah

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #413 on: September 12, 2012, 02:00:37 AM »
Yeah I have no problem believing the 1000 years are figurative. What of the next part then, "when the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth - Gog and Magog - to gather them for battle."?
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #414 on: September 12, 2012, 02:03:51 AM »
when God said to not eat,lest the day ye eat of it ye die...I think that was the death sentence reigning...the corruptible 1000 oyears..of which Christ began ruling in the

 midst as the tol promised seed of the woman. That is why Christ is Lord of the dead and living..and God is the God/Lord of the living[because all live unto Him]

  Molly, my sister...I too..look for the grand finale and wrapping up of all things...I have read in the lost books about the dragons of Arabia prophesied

   covering the earth like a hissing snake. and yes, they may very well serve3 as a typeology of the kingdom of darkness/gog's and magog's.

   but there are many anti-christs..and throughout many generations of time they have done their will through thecorruptible flesh of fallen Adam.

   Judus is a son of perdition..but so to the spirit of satan has been operative in many who associate with Christ[spirit] betray him to death in myriads of ways

  for money,power prestige etc.  It is a spiritual battle..and corruptible flesh of men are used in it

  I am just trying to widen the scope of what is seen..what has been taking place since man was placed on the earth


Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #415 on: September 12, 2012, 02:04:30 AM »
Quote from: Doug
Practically every time period mentioned in Revelation is figurative, and the thousand years is no exception, IMO.

I don't think so.  Otherwise, why would daniel say, when you see the armies standing in Jerusalem, start counting the days, 1260,1290, etc  Daniel is very specific and the book of revelation just quotes Daniel.

Daniel also said none of the wicked would understand his prophecies. So it does not appear reasonable that these periods would be literal days, as in that case anyone could figure it out.

Each of these numbers refer to events of a spiritual nature, to which earth days, earth months, and earth years would not apply. 

Doug

Anyone can figure it out.  Just like anyone could figure out who Jesus was 2000 years ago.

But, they didn't, because their eyes were blinded.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #416 on: September 12, 2012, 02:06:49 AM »
28 Then shall he return into his land with great riches; and his heart shall be against the holy covenant; and he shall do exploits, and return to his own land.



32 And such as do wickedly against the covenant shall he corrupt by flatteries: but the people that do know their God shall be strong, and do exploits.

36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.

37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.

--Dan 11



Obama White House ordered coverup of religious symbols for Georgetown speech
April 16, 2009 | 3:39pm

Surprising word today that President Barack Obama's White House asked Georgetown University to cover all religious symbols at the scene of the president's economic speech at the Roman Catholic institution Wednesday.

And the prestigious Jesuit university agreed.



This includes a mosaic of Jesus Christ covering the entire 14-story southern wall of the Hesburgh Library next door to the speech site in the Joyce Center, primarily used for athletic-related events such as basketball, hockey and raucous pre-game pep rallies. (See photo below.)

Turns out, the usual movable drapery barriers were not tall enough to hide the cross and IHS emblem, a traditional Catholic abbreviation for the name of Jesus Christ. So the school agreed to cloak the entire wall structure with the religious symbols.

An online petition asking Notre Dame to rescind its invitation to Obama has gathered several hundred thousand signatures.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/04/obama-notre-dame-georgetown.html



Notre Dame Faculty to Obama: 'This Is a Grave Violation of Religious Freedom and Cannot Stand'
CNS News ^ | 2/12/12 | Terence P. Jeffrey


Posted on Monday, February 13, 2012 12:15:11 PM by rhema

Twenty-five Notre Dame faculty members--led by the university's top ethics expert, and including some of the school's most eminent scholars--have signed a statement declaring that President Barack Obama's latest version of his administration's mandate that all health insurance plans in the United States must cover sterilizations and all FDA-approved contraceptives, including those that cause abortions, is "a grave violation of religious freedom and cannot stand."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2845939/posts



BETWEEN THE LINES
Dems denied God 3 times
Exclusive: Joseph Farah believes platform debacle will translate into shellacking at polls
Published: 4 days ago

http://www.wnd.com/2012/09/dems-denied-god-3-times/




U.S. President Barack Obama Avoids Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu Meeting

Reuters | Posted: 09/11/2012 2:36 pm Updated: 09/11/2012 6:30 pm

By Matt Spetalnick and Allyn Fisher-Ilan

WASHINGTON/JERUSALEM, Sept 11 (Reuters) - In a highly unusual rebuff to a close ally, the White House said on Tuesday that President Barack Obama would not meet Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during a U.S. visit later this month, as tensions escalated over how to deal with Iran's nuclear program.

The apparent snub, coupled with Netanyahu's sharpened demands for a tougher U.S. line against Iran, threatened to plunge U.S.-Israeli relations into crisis and add pressure on Obama in the final stretch of a tight presidential election campaign.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2012, 02:23:00 AM by Molly »

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #417 on: September 12, 2012, 02:26:39 AM »
Yeah I have no problem believing the 1000 years are figurative. What of the next part then, "when the thousand years are over, Satan will be released from his prison and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth - Gog and Magog - to gather them for battle."?

Peter said, "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." [2 Peter 3:8] The saints are "the children of light" and "children of the day," not of the night, or darkness. [1 Thess. 5:5] And so, we could say that the saints are the "children of the thousand years;" as with God one day is as a thousand years.

Their lives are with God; the whole time of their reign with Christ is a "day." David said, "For a day in thy courts is better than a thousand. I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness." [Psa. 84:10]

Peter referred to the saints as a "royal priesthood." [1 Peter 2:9-10]

John said that the saints are "priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years." [Rev. 20:6] The thousand years is a label John puts on the spiritual life of every saint. This could be called a discrete Millennium, as it is personal, and individual. That is, for the individual Christian, Satan is bound in a bottomless pit, and that person reigns with Christ as a member of the "royal priesthood" of the saints. The thousand years applies to individual saints, not to Christ, as his reign is forever.

If the individual remains faithful, the "thousand years" or his Christian experience is a foretaste of eternal life in Christ's kingdom. If not, then he will become deceived, and will be one of those who come against the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. For such people, the thousand years ends, they cease to be what John depicts as "beheaded," which depicts those who are of a humble and contrite spirit.

Doug


Offline sheila

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #418 on: September 12, 2012, 02:40:48 AM »
as far as I can see,Lomorrah regarding the release of satan from the abyss to go forth and mislead..these are men that are not regenerated in Christ as yet.

  the spirit of the adversary uses them to do their will. I think it no coincidnce that the spiritual regeneration that has occurred in these last few

   decades of those called out and the MONUMENTOUS JUDGEMENT THAT ALL MEN SHALL BE SAVED AND RE#CEIVE FREE GIFT OF ETERNAL

  LIFE.....that at that very time violence both here and abroad..and kill every american is echoed..throughout many countries.

   I beleive it is in that very thing they are being manipulated to fight against the camp of the Holy city.  Herod went after all male children ....wher-ever the spirit

  of Christ is or a manchild caught up to the throne of God..you shall see enmity...be it Go9g..a dragon..original serpent..anti-christ etc...and they use

  corruptible flesh of deceived to accomplish it.

  I most certainly do beleive the end of all the temporal is at hand...nation against nation..kingdom against kingdom.

  the fire of God will burn the evil tares up on those who are not regenerated in Christ..they shall be seperated from their deceivers


  any of you had a long time friend suddenly turn on you for no cause?  think not that gog's crowd is only in the arabs  muslims flesh..

  any of you tempted to live a 'normal' life...he's in your flesh too..known as sin/corruption

Offline lomarah

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #419 on: September 12, 2012, 03:30:51 AM »
Wow very interesting stuff here! Doug that was a really interesting take on it.

Sheila, I hear you about Gog, that annoying sin/corruption. Question, are you saying that the nations hate America because of the camp of the Holy city being in it? Or did I read that wrong?
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Doug

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #420 on: September 12, 2012, 04:18:32 AM »
In Revelation 12:1, the woman in heaven is adorned with a crown of twelve stars, which likely alludes to the throne of David. Christ inherited David's throne, and the saints who are "beheaded" reign with him. This is a metaphor depicting a contrite spirit. But in verse 4, some are described following the tail of the dragon. "And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth."

The stars cast to the earth are former saints, those who return to the world. Being drawn by the dragon's tail pictures being deceived. 

This seems to be a parallel to the things John described in Revelation 20:8-9, where people who are deceived come against the camp of the saints, and the beloved city, which is the church.

Doug

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #421 on: September 12, 2012, 04:58:09 AM »
The twelve stars refer to the twelve tribes of Israel which gives birth to Jesus/the church.

The child is snatched up to heaven so the dragon goes after the woman who is left behind.

This could refer to the rapture of the church, with the Jews being left behind to be persecuted.  [Also, ascension of Jesus to heaven and saints sitting in heaven with him].

But this is an endtimes prophecy.

So we see the Jews being carried away into the desert on the wings of eagles, where they are protected and nurtured by God.  One third of the Jews will be saved out of Jacob's Trouble [the Great Tribulation].

These Jews in revelation 12 are keeping the commandments of Jesus.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #422 on: September 12, 2012, 05:04:39 AM »
Quote from: Doug
This seems to be a parallel to the things John described in Revelation 20:8-9, where people who are deceived come against the camp of the saints, and the beloved city, which is the church.



8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

--Rev 20



These people are not christians, and never were.  Their names are not written in the book of life.  They worshipped the beast.



All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast--all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world.  Rev 13:8

Offline reFORMer

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #423 on: September 12, 2012, 05:57:25 AM »
The word "Millennium" in Revelation is plural, literally "MillenniumS."
________________________________________

There is NO "Battle of Armageddon."  The nations are only gathered to battle.  The mounted presence of the the breathing Word of God stops it.

There is a description of blood flowing (not splattering) in the valley "to the horses bridles."   That is approximately 5 1/2 feet deep.  The valley averages about 5 miles wide by 200 miles long.  To fill that volume means somewhat over 9 trillion people.  That is more than 2,000 adult bodies for every one that now exists, assuming everyone is an adult and drained of about 8 quarts of blood.  Where do these people come from?  Where would the corpses go?  It seems very unlikely to expect some kind of literal fulfillment here.
________________________________________

Have you ever looked up figs and fig trees to try and establish they represent Israel?  It seemed to me a very shaky assumption, nothing to lean on.  Is the fig tree Satan?
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #424 on: September 12, 2012, 06:35:05 AM »
well, it could mean that in a certain part of the river, like in the center of the channel where the armies are trying to cross it after it is dammed up, it might not mean the WHOLE river from shore to shore :o) But still, that is a lotta blood.
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