Author Topic: Prophecy  (Read 255951 times)

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Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #375 on: September 10, 2012, 08:17:26 PM »
"Therefore, behold, I will allure her, Bring her into the wilderness And speak kindly to her. "Then I will give her her vineyards from there, And the valley of Achor as a door of hope. And she will sing there as in the days of her youth, As in the day when she came up from the land of Egypt. "It will come about in that day," declares the LORD, "That you will call Me Ishi And will no longer call Me Baali. "For I will remove the names of the Baals from her mouth, So that they will be mentioned by their names no more. "In that day I will also make a covenant for them With the beasts of the field, The birds of the sky And the creeping things of the ground. And I will abolish the bow, the sword and war from the land, And will make them lie down in safety. "I will betroth you to Me forever; Yes, I will betroth you to Me in righteousness and in justice, In lovingkindness and in compassion, And I will betroth you to Me in faithfulness. Then you will know the LORD. "It will come about in that day that I will respond," declares the LORD. "I will respond to the heavens, and they will respond to the earth, And the earth will respond to the grain, to the new wine and to the oil, And they will respond to Jezreel. "I will sow her for Myself in the land. I will also have compassion on her who had not obtained compassion, And I will say to those who were not My people, 'You are My people!' And they will say, 'You are my God!'"
(Hos 2:14-23)

"Come, let us return to the LORD. For He has torn us, but He will heal us; He has wounded us, but He will bandage us. "He will revive us after two days; He will raise us up on the third day, That we may live before Him. "So let us know, let us press on to know the LORD. His going forth is as certain as the dawn; And He will come to us like the rain, Like the spring rain watering the earth."
(Hos 6:1-3)

That sounds like the muslims, doesn't it?  He puts her in the desert.  She will call him ISHI--[ISSA].    ISHI is husband.  Baali is master.  No more will she call him Baali.  Muslims worship Baal/Satan [Allah] according to Walid Shoebat who was a muslim--he gives a long list of reasons to prove this.

All these muslim countries turn to God after the final battle and end of the Age.



22 And the Lord shall smite Egypt: he shall smite and heal it: and they shall return even to the Lord, and he shall be intreated of them, and shall heal them.
 
23 In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians.
 
24 In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land:
 
25 Whom the Lord of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.
--Isa 19

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #376 on: September 10, 2012, 10:39:02 PM »
Ezekiel 38, 39 The Battle of Gog and Magog
May 19, 2009

by Joel Richardson



I. PASSAGE OVERVIEW:

A. Ezekiel 38-39 is one of the most critical and most essential end time passages to grasp. Yet it is one of the most significantly misunderstood and misinterpreted of all of the significant end time passages.

B. While several other passages use historical types or foreshadows (Antiochus Epiphanes, Assyrian, etc.), to give us information about the Antichrist, in this passage God addresses the Antichrist directly. It is a straight forward futuristic prophecy without any historical partial fulfillment. Where the Antichrist comes from as well as the primary nations that will make up his ten nation coalition are all named quite clearly.

C. Portrayed in this passage is a large end time coalition of nations primarily from the Middle East and northern Africa joining together to invade the land of Israel. The leader of this coalition is called Gog.  The invasion concludes with a series of both natural and supernatural events that leave the invading armies shattered in the land of Israel.

II. ALL PROPHETS ESSENTIALLY SPOKE OF THE SAME THING, TOLD THE SAME GENERAL STORY, ALBEIT USING VARIOUS LENSES AND SHARING VARIOUS EMPHASISҍ

A. The general story told by all of the prophets is fairly simple. Each one of the elements of the following story are repeated numerous times throughout the prophets.

B. Today, by and large, the Church is generally very Old Testament / Tanakh illiterate. If we simply understand the commonly repeated themes throughout the prophets, then we recognize that this is simply the same story that has been told over and over again.

1. In the last days,

2. A large coalition of nations from the Middle East (neighbors of Israel),

3. Will gather together and invade Israel.

4. They will be led by an evil world leader (The Antichrist).

5. They will kill a majority of the inhabitants of the land.

6. Many of the Jews that survive will be taken captive.

7. In the midst of this darkest time in Israel's history, God Himself, through the Messiah will intervene, appear and deliver His people, the Jewish nation.

8. He will physically defeat all of the enemies of Israel (who He calls His enemies).

9. He will deliver the captives.

10. He will march up from Egypt, as the greater Moses and ascend to Jerusalem.

11. He will re-establish the throne of David on Mt Zion.

12. He will lead Israel in plundering the nations that plundered them.

13. Israel's borders will be greatly expanded.

14. The children of Israel's enemies will come and repent before them.

15. He will restructure the authority structure and leadership of the whole earth.

16. He will rule the world with an iron scepter for an extended period of time (a thousand years.)

17. The earth will be filled with the knowledge of God.

18. All of the promises made to Israel will be fulfilled.

19. Jews and Gentiles will live as one new people under His leadership.

III. PROOFS THAT GOG IS THE ANTICHRIST

A. REASON #1: THE NUMEROUS SHARED COMMONALITIES BETWEEN GOG AND THE ANTICHRIST

1. THE DEFEAT OF BOTH GOG AND ANTICHRIST ARE FOLLOWED BY THE FEAST OF GOD

Gog:

Call out to every kind of bird and all the wild animals: 'Assemble and come together from all around to the sacrifice I am preparing for you, the great sacrifice on the mountains of Israel. There you will eat flesh and drink blood. You will eat the flesh of mighty men and drink the blood of the princes of the earth… At my table you will eat your fill of horses and riders, mighty men and soldiers of every kind,' declares Yahweh the Sovereign. Ezekiel 39:17-20

Antichrist:

And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great." (Revelation 19:17)

2. BOTH ARMIES ATTACK TURN ON EACH OTHER.

Gog

I will summon a sword against Gog on all my mountains, declares the Sovereign LORD. Every man's sword will be against his brother. I will execute judgment upon him with plague and bloodshed. -Ezekiel 38:21-22

Antichrist

On that day men will be stricken by the LORD with great panic. Each man will seize the hand of another, and they will attack each other. -Zechariah 14:12-13

3. BOTH COALITIONS CONSIST OF THE SAME NATIONS:

Antichrist:

and the Libyans and the Ethiopians shall be at his (Antichrist's) steps.

Daniel 11:43

Gog:

Ethiopia, and Libya with them; all of them with shield and helmet.

Ezekiel 38:5

4. BOTH GOG AND THE ANTICHRIST TAKE SPOIL, LOOT AND PLUNDER:

Antichrist:

Woe to the Assyrian (the Antichrist), the rod of my anger, in whose hand is the club of my wrath! I send him against a godless nation; I dispatch him against a people who anger me, to seize loot and snatch plunder, and to trample them down like mud in the streets. But this is not what he intends, this is not what he has in mind; his purpose is to destroy, to put an end to many nations. (Isaiah 10:5-7)

When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them. He will distribute plunder, loot, and wealth among his followers. (Daniel 11:24)

Gog:

On that day you will make an evil plan: You will say, I will go up against a land of unwalled villages to take plunder and to take booty, to stretch out your hand against the waste places that are again inhabited, and against a people gathered from the nations, who have acquired livestock and goods, who dwell in the midst of the land. (Ezekiel 38:10-13)

SIDE NOTE:

When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them.  He will distribute plunder, loot, and wealth among his followers. (Daniel 11:24)

A. The Antichrist will be a populist, wealth spreader. He will want to spread the wealth around among his followers. Every dictator in history uses the concept of spreading the wealth to the poor, pseudo justice issues to curry favor with the peoples. Hugo Chavez, Communism, Fidel Castro, etc etc etc.

B. The Early Church Understood this: the Antichrist pretends that he vindicates the poor. Ireneaus (c. 202)

C. Muslims Await a Populist Messiah:

1. In the last-days of the Islamic community, the Mahdi will appear… He will give away wealth profusely, flocks will be in abundance, and the Muslim community will be large and honored – Sahih Hakim Mustadrak

2. In those years my community will enjoy a time of happiness such as they have never experienced before. A man will stand and say, give to me Mahdi! and he will say,  Take. At-Tabarani

5. BOTH GOG AND ANTICHRIST ARE KINGS THAT COME FROM THE NORTH.

Antichrist:

At the time of the end the king of the South (Egypt) will engage him in battle, and the king of the North (Antichrist) will storm out against him with chariots and cavalry and a great fleet of ships. He (Antichrist) will invade many countries and sweep through them like a flood. (Daniel 11:40-42)

" And I will never again make you a reproach among the nations. I will drive the northern army far from you, pushing it into a parched and barren land, with its front columns going into the eastern sea and those in the rear into the western sea. And its stench will go up; its smell will rise."  (Joel 2:19-20)

Gog:

In that day, when my people Israel are living in safety, will you not take notice of it? You will come from your place in the far north, you and many nations with you a mighty army.  You will advance against my people Israel like a cloud that covers the land. I am against you, O Gog, chief prince of Meshech and Tubal. I will turn you around and drag you along. I will bring you from the far north and send you against the mountains of Israel. (Ezekiel 38:14-16; 39:1-3)

6. BOTH ARMAGEDDON AND THE BATTLE OF GOG END WITH A GREAT EARTHQUAKE

The destruction of both Gog and the Antichrist is accompanied by an earthquake of unparalleled proportions. This is not a small event. Every creature on the Earth, all men will shake at the presence of Jesus. This same event is described in the Book of Revelation as occurring when the armies of Antichrist are gathered together in and against Israel:

7. BOTH ALSO EXPERIENCE GREAT HAILSTONES

Antichrist:

Then they gathered the kings together to the place that in Hebrew is called Armageddon.  Then there came from the sky huge hailstones of about a hundred pounds each fell upon men. (Revelation 16:16-21)

Gog:

I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone. (Ezekiel 38:22)

8. BOTH GOG AND ANTICHRIST COME AT A TIME OF PEACE AND UNSUSPECTINGNESS

Antichrist:

When the richest provinces feel secure, he will invade them (Daniel 11:24)

This is also in accordance with the false peace that Israel will experience as a result of the AC's bogus peace treaty with Israel. While Ezekiel 38,39 portrays the final battle in very general and broad terms (wide angle lense) , Revelation 19 portrays it in very specific and focused terms. This is common throughout the prophets. It is the prophetic perspective / mountain peak principle that Clarence Larkin spoke so eloquently about long ago.

Gog:

You will say, I will invade a land of unwalled villages; I will attack a peaceful and unsuspecting people,all of them living without walls and without gates and bars. (Ezekiel 38:12, 13)

D. REASON # 4: ISRAEL AND THE NATIONS COME TO FAITH: AFTER THIS EVENT, GOD's NAME WILL NO LONGER BE PROFANED.

1. God Himself says that after the defeat of Gog and his armies, all of the Gentile Nations as well as Israel will be convicted of their unbelief and will know that He (Yahweh) is God:

So the house of Israel shall know that I am the LORD their God from that day and forward. (Ezekiel 39:22)

2. This can only happen after they accept their Messiah Jesus. Jesus told them that they would not see him again until they recognized Him as being from God.

Behold, your house is left unto you desolate: and verily I say unto you, Ye shall not see me, until the time come when ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord. (Luke 13:35, Matthew 23:39)

And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem… And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn. (Zechariah 12:9-10)

3. Not Only Israel, but all nations will come to faith. God will NO LONGER allow his name to be blasphemed.

And so I will show my greatness and my holiness, and I will make myself known in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am Yahweh.' I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in safety in the coastlands, and they will know that I am Yahweh." 'I will make known my holy name among my people Israel. I will no longer let my holy name be profaned, and the nations will know that I Yahweh am the Holy One in Israel. It is coming! It will surely take place, declares Yahweh the Sovereign. This is the day I have spoken of. (Ezekiel 38:23-39:7-8)

4. Everything about the events and Scriptural language in this passage indicate that this war is no mere opening act to the Great Tribulation, but is rather the magnificent capstone of that period that will have a decisive effect on all nations worldwide.



6. The description of what will take place after Gog's destruction is one that can only be applied to that period after Christ returns and has utterly destroyed all of His enemies.

http://archives.joelstrumpet.com/?p=1973
« Last Edit: September 10, 2012, 10:50:33 PM by Molly »

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #377 on: September 10, 2012, 11:35:18 PM »
Molly,

in Ezek 38 & 39 there is absolutely no mention of AntiChrist or any semblance of such a personality. Why is this?

If you would kindly read Rev 20:7-9, you will read about this invasion when it occurs at the end of the Millenium, not before it begins. You will please read : And when the thousand years are expitred, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison and shall go out & deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog & Magogto gather them together to battle: the number of whom is the sand of the sea. And they went up on the breadth of the earth and compassed the camp of the saints and the beloved city......."

Why must you insist this invasion occurs with the AntiChrist in charge of Gog's & Magog's  forces when verse 10 clearly states that after Satan (not AntiChrist) fails to use these forces to crush Israel after the Millenium, he is then cast into  "the lake of fire & brimstone where the beast & false prophet are....." Do you follow me here? The scripture cannot be more clear that AntiChrist is not leading these armies, he has already been dispatched to the lake of fire over 1000 years before this attempted invasion occurs.

 

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #378 on: September 10, 2012, 11:51:40 PM »
Hi Paul, there are two battles of Armaggedon--one before the 1000 year rule of Christ

and one after.  You can see in Rev 17, a lot of references to Daniel regarding the Antichrist and the battle and who is fighting it.  Then in Revelation 20, Satan is thrown into the Pit.  Then he is released and the battle is fought again after 1000 years.  So--the same battle led by Gog [Satan/Antichrist] is fought twice.

Paul, the implication is that during the next Age, or the 1000 year millenium reign, there will be nations that will not be following Christ, even though he will be ruling and reigning on earth.  The nations that are following Christ will bring their glory into Jerusalem, the holy city.  The rest will not be allowed inside.


Paul, the New Testament is very clear that this evil leader in the Old Testament is Satan.  The Old Testament is a little more circumspect, calling him Gog, the little horn, Lucifer, etc.



And there came one of the seven angels which had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great whore that sitteth upon many waters:

2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the wine of her fornication.

3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:

5 And upon her forehead was a name written, Mystery, Babylon The Great, The Mother Of Harlots And Abominations Of The Earth.



6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.

13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.

14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.

15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.

17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled.

18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth.

--Rev 17



And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

--Rev 20
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 12:01:28 AM by Molly »

Offline dajomaco

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #379 on: September 10, 2012, 11:59:29 PM »
8. BOTH GOG AND ANTICHRIST COME AT A TIME OF PEACE AND UNSUSPECTINGNESS.

 :When I hear that there is complete peace in the Middle East.
When there is an absence of speculation about the antichrist.

That's when I should look out? :popout
 

Offline thinktank

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #380 on: September 11, 2012, 12:53:01 AM »

Yes, and the time will come when the (gentile) church will need the Jew, that the Jew will finally help the gentile, that he will hold on to the skirt of a  Jew as he has heard that God is with the Jew as Israel becomes Gods kingdom on earth, the mightiest nation upon the earth, fulfilling scripture.

And you have just written exactly what Rev 20:7-9 is all about, except for your use of the word "church" where I have inserted "gentile" alongside of it. Most Christians simply do not understand what the 1000 years of the Millenium is about.    It is about Christ only beginning to restructure the order of the world's ruling elite, the prelude to this is the more ominous task of first doing away with the armies of the false messiah to Israel (so-called AntiChrist) by the end of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.

The biggest share of time consumed during the 1000 years of the Millenium, is rebuilding Israel and returning the 12 tribes of Israel from the lands of the Gentiles in order that it will become Christ's proclamation to the world for dissemination of the gospel. After the 1000 years are over & Gog & Magog & all the remainder of men's governments are finally dispatched to the ashbin of human history, then the New Jerusalem descends from heaven to find it's place on Earth, it will be only then there will be no more war on Earth.

[/quote]I am kind of confused

about the order of events.


The common theory is that Israel gets saved AFTER armageddon.

However my theory or revelation is that Israel gets saved Before Armageddon.



Which splits Israel into 2

1st piece are the Virgin bride who follow the Lamb wherever he goes 144,00 from the tribes. The other part goes into the wilderness to be fed for a season[innumerable folks], the exact time space needed to survive during antichrists reign. (inn)umerable. rev12 rev6 These are all faithfull Messianic Israelites, possibly the church or amongst them (forget about church for now)
The second pieces of Israel are slaves and sinners who live in the kingdom of the antichrist.
God says at the end to come out of her my people lest you become partakes of her plagues ,VIA an angel of  GOD  NOT via tv.
God will destroy Babylon again and Israel must escape slavery from Babylon and escape the king of Babylon just like Daniel.

However just before Babylonia is a great kingdom, Israel becomes a mighty nation.
I am certain that the 4 horsmen have something to do with Israel becoming Gods hammer of the whole Earth, before antichrist appears.

So I think Israel will hammer a few nations and maybe Gogs defeat has something to do with it, just before antichrist comes in to play, to war with Israel. But antichrist cannot defeat Israels army, until he infiltrates and defiles the Holy temple of their GOd.

Gog and Magog post millenium, sounds like a possible rematch as this time Gog joins with magog, perhaps it means mad-gog! because he  lost pre millenium

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #381 on: September 11, 2012, 12:53:36 AM »
Hi Paul, there are two battles of Armaggedon--one before the 1000 year rule of Christ and one after.  You can see in Rev 17, a lot of references to Daniel regarding the Antichrist and the battle and who is fighting it. 

Two battles of Armageddon? Where do I find this?

I know what you are trying to say but that is an ad hoc explanation because you continue to overlook the fact that Rev 20:10 clearly states Satan will join AntiChrist in the lake of fire "where the beast and false prophet are". Satan follows AntiChrist into the lake of fire a thousand years after he (AntiChrist) was cast into it. Satan was never put into the fiery lake at the beginning of the Millenium, he was bound with chains & placed into a bottomless pit, not the same place where the false prophet & beast went.

What scripture states Gog & Antichrist are the same individuals? Gog is a country, a geographical place, not a person. One is a person who murders people, the other a country intending to do so, but doesn't get away with it as AntiChrist did, so for that reason alone they cannot be the same two entities.

It is necessary to understand timelines here, for Satan & AntiChrist they are the same only during the 70th week, but not after it, that is what Rev 20:10 explains to us, the timeline of the careers of Satan & AntiChrist diverge totally at the start of the Millenium.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #382 on: September 11, 2012, 01:30:15 AM »
I thought gog was the prince of Meshel and Tubal

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #383 on: September 11, 2012, 02:19:40 AM »

Yes, and the time will come when the (gentile) church will need the Jew, that the Jew will finally help the gentile, that he will hold on to the skirt of a  Jew as he has heard that God is with the Jew as Israel becomes Gods kingdom on earth, the mightiest nation upon the earth, fulfilling scripture.

And you have just written exactly what Rev 20:7-9 is all about, except for your use of the word "church" where I have inserted "gentile" alongside of it. Most Christians simply do not understand what the 1000 years of the Millenium is about.    It is about Christ only beginning to restructure the order of the world's ruling elite, the prelude to this is the more ominous task of first doing away with the armies of the false messiah to Israel (so-called AntiChrist) by the end of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.

The biggest share of time consumed during the 1000 years of the Millenium, is rebuilding Israel and returning the 12 tribes of Israel from the lands of the Gentiles in order that it will become Christ's proclamation to the world for dissemination of the gospel. After the 1000 years are over & Gog & Magog & all the remainder of men's governments are finally dispatched to the ashbin of human history, then the New Jerusalem descends from heaven to find it's place on Earth, it will be only then there will be no more war on Earth.

I am kind of confused

about the order of events.


Quote
The common theory is that Israel gets saved AFTER armageddon.

There are the 144000 & the faithful woman of Rev 12 before Armageddon that are saved, but  the majority of Israelites are saved after Armageddon.

Quote
However my theory or revelation is that Israel gets saved Before Armageddon.

The 144000 & the woman's company of Israelites who flee the city of Jerusalem to a place of safety



Quote
Which splits Israel into 2

1st piece are the Virgin bride who follow the Lamb wherever he goes 144,00 from the tribes. The other part goes into the wilderness to be fed for a season[innumerable folks], the exact time space needed to survive during antichrists reign. (inn)umerable. rev12 rev6 These are all faithfull Messianic Israelites, possibly the church or amongst them (forget about church for now)
The second pieces of Israel are slaves and sinners who live in the kingdom of the antichrist.

144000 Israelites are saved before Armageddon as well as the woman who flees to the wilderness, we're not given their number. The 144000 came out of the faithful woman who later flees to the wilderness with her additional numbers of faithful Israelites who saved before Armageddon occurs.


Quote
So I think Israel will hammer a few nations and maybe Gogs defeat has something to do with it, just before antichrist comes in to play, to war with Israel. But antichrist cannot defeat Israels army, until he infiltrates and defiles the Holy temple of their GOd.

Gog's defeat does not occur until after the Millenium is finished, Rev 20:7-9, details of this defeat are given in Ezek 38 & 39.

Quote
Gog and Magog post millenium, sounds like a possible rematch as this time Gog joins with magog, perhaps it means mad-gog! because he  lost pre millenium

No rematch, it's a one time event at the conclusion of the Millenium as I pointed out above
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 02:27:42 AM by Paul L »

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #384 on: September 11, 2012, 03:03:40 AM »
I thought gog was the prince of Meshel and Tubal
He is, and a supernatural Prince, at that.  Like Daniel's Prince of Persia who held up the angel Gabriel for 21 days and so, delayed him from reaching Daniel sooner.   The Antichrist will be an indwelt man, Satan mimicing God. 

Remember Meshech and Tubal are in Turkey which is called the seat of Satan.


12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy God, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
 
13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
 
14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days.

--Daniel 10
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 03:10:50 AM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #385 on: September 11, 2012, 03:05:49 AM »
Quote from: TT
And you have just written exactly what Rev 20:7-9 is all about, except for your use of the word "church" where I have inserted "gentile" alongside of it. Most Christians simply do not understand what the 1000 years of the Millenium is about.    It is about Christ only beginning to restructure the order of the world's ruling elite, the prelude to this is the more ominous task of first doing away with the armies of the false messiah to Israel (so-called AntiChrist) by the end of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy.

This is something that I am just beginning to understand, myself, and it explains why people are still outside the city at the end of the book.

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #386 on: September 11, 2012, 03:18:12 AM »

Quote from: Paul
No rematch, it's a one time event at the conclusion of the Millenium as I pointed out above

Go look more closely and you will see.  There are two battles equal in scope, one at the end of this age, one at the end of the next age.



Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #387 on: September 11, 2012, 03:39:04 AM »
The Battle of Gog of Magog & the Return of Jesus
September 10, 2012

Joel Richardson

The Book of Revelation, chapter 19, contains what is perhaps the most famous Biblical passage concerning the return of Jesus. There, Jesus the Messiah is seen to burst forth from heaven, riding on a white horse with the armies of heaven following Him. But as powerful and as well known as this prophetic portrayal of the return of Jesus is, few are aware of the fact that the prophecy of Ezekiel 38 and 39, most often known as the Battle of Gog of Magog, also concludes with the return of Jesus. In fact, it can be said that Ezekiel 38 and 39 is in fact, the Armageddon of the Old Testament.


Although many popular interpreters have wrongly understood this passage to conclude several years before the return of Jesus, any honest assessment of the text simply does not allow for this. But among the many reasons to reject a pre-Day of the LORD conclusion of this prophecy, one of the simplest, is because it concludes with the LORD actually physically present in the land of Israel.

That's right, Ezekiel reveals that at the conclusion of Gog's invasion, Jesus the Messiah is physically present on the ground, in the land. Consider the following passage:

"For in my jealousy and in my blazing wrath I declare, on that day there shall be a great earthquake in the land of Israel. The fish of the sea and the birds of the heavens and the beasts of the field and all creeping things that creep on the ground, and all the people who are on the face of the earth, shall quake at my presence" —Ezekiel 38:19–20

According to this text, the Lord Himself says that throughout the earth, both people and animals will "quake at [His] presence." The word used for presence here is the Hebrew word paneh. Paneh is a reference to the actual face of someone or something. When God says that the people of the earth will quake at His paneh, He is saying that they will be terrified because of His actual physical presence, on the ground, in the land of Israel.

Concerning the word paneh, The New Unger's Bible Dictionary says, "The presence (face) of Jehovah is Jehovah in his own personal presence." The New International Encyclopedia of Bible Words says, "In the OT, being in God's or another's presence is indicated by a preposition (l) prefixed to the Hebrew word panim ('face'). The thought is to be 'before the face of the person."

Paneh is used throughout the Old Testament to refer to the actual presence of God. Jacob, for instance, after wrestling with the Angel of the Lord, referred to seeing God face-to-face: "So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, 'For I have seen God face [paneh] to face [paneh], and yet my life has been delivered'" (Genesis 32:30).

It is also interesting to note that in place of the Hebrew paneh, the Septuagint used the Greek word prosopon. Prosopon is one of two words commonly used in the New Testament to refer to actual presence. The other word is parousia, which is commonly associated with the Second Coming. To convey actual presence, between parousia and prosopon, prosopon is the more powerful term. While parousia most often implies coming, prosopon implies actual face-to-face presence. As Jesus is coming on the clouds, this is His parousia, but once He has actually arrived, then the word prosopon is used.

An excellent example of the New Testament usage of prosopon is a scene where the righteous are actually looking upon the face of God in the eternal city:

"No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him. They will see his face [prosopon], and his name will be on their foreheads" —Revelation 22:4

Ezekiel's description of people quaking in fear of God's face reveals that at the conclusion of the Battle of Gog and Magog, Jesus the Messiah, God incarnate, is physically present on the earth, in the land of Israel.

The Holy One in Israel

Further evidence for the physical presence of Jesus at the conclusion of this battle is seen in Ezekiel 39:7:

"And my holy name I will make known in the midst of my people Israel, and I will not let my holy name be profaned anymore. And the nations shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel."

This is the only time that the phrase "the LORD, the Holy One in Israel" is used in the whole Bible. It is the Hebrew YHVH qadowsh baYisra'el. A similar phrase, "the Holy One of Israel" (qadowsh Yisra'el), is used thirty-one times in Scripture (e.g., Isaiah 12:6; 43:3; 55:5; 60:9, etc.). But here in Ezekiel, the Lord is not merely the Holy One of Israel; He is actually present in the land and on the ground! While the popular position holds that this passage concludes several years before the return of Jesus, this verse makes this an absolute impossibility.

Other biblical commentators have also taken special note of God's presence in Ezekiel's oracle as evidence that it is a parallel to the Battle of Armageddon in Revelation 19. Apologist Dave Hunt for instance has stated:

"There is no doubt, from both Zechariah 12 and Revelation 1 and 19, that this personal coming of Yahweh to rescue His people and to destroy Antichrist and his armies takes place at Armageddon. It is significant, then, that similar language concerning the personal presence of God is found in Ezekiel 38 and 39, thus identifying the event described there as Armageddon also."

Hunt's observations are correct. But while most conservative, premillennialist, futurist interpreters who take Scripture at face value and use a literalist method of interpretation will interpret the entirety of this passage in a literal fashion, when it comes to these two texts which show that God is actually present and in the land, many suddenly switch to an allegorical and non-literalist interpretation, without any justification for doing so.

If one uses a consistent literal method to interpret Ezekiel 38 and 39, then one must acknowledge that it concludes with the return of Jesus the Messiah. And as I have said before, if this is the case, within the world of Biblical prophecy, this absolutely changes everything. It is high time for the Church to begin wrestling with the implications.

http://archives.joelstrumpet.com/?p=4042

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #388 on: September 11, 2012, 04:02:18 AM »

Quote from: Paul
No rematch, it's a one time event at the conclusion of the Millenium as I pointed out above

Go look more closely and you will see.  There are two battles equal in scope, one at the end of this age, one at the end of the next age.

True, there are two battles, different armies. The first battle of Armegeddon is the one in which AntiChrist & his armies are subdued, resulting in the AntiChrist going to the lake of fire at the start of the Millenium.

 At the conclusion of the Millenium the second battle is enjoined. After Israel has dwelt safely in the land for a thousand years, Satan has dispensed with  the use of  human surrogates to do his bidding, so he personally takes charge because he thinks he can do a better job. He finds willing dupes in and around the area of present day Turkey to join his army (Gog & Magog). He personally takes charge & marches them into Israel, loses the battle then he gets pitched into the lake of fire to join his failed human surrogates of 1000 years earlier.

I might add in each of the above two cases it was Christ who fought the battles for Israel. Christ does not fight just one battle, while both are exactly the same as far as intent goes on the part of the antagonists, they are two different antagonists. War is war, all battles are fought about the same way, it's just that the ground they are fought on have different locations, as is the case here.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2012, 04:10:46 AM by Paul L »

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #389 on: September 11, 2012, 05:06:24 AM »
The Battle of Gog of Magog & the Return of Jesus
September 10, 2012

Joel Richardson

 
Quote
...... few are aware of the fact that the prophecy of Ezekiel 38 and 39, most often known as the Battle of Gog of Magog, also concludes with the return of Jesus. In fact, it can be said that Ezekiel 38 and 39 is in fact, the Armageddon of the Old Testament.

Where does Ezek 38 & 39 state that? Armegeddon is inside of Israel where Antichrist's armies are defeated. Satan's armies of Gog & Magog don't seem to be so accurately pinpointed, all we can surmise is the ruling Christ now inside Jerusalem doesn't allow the battle lines to be drawn inside Israel's borders.

Quote
Although many popular interpreters have wrongly understood this passage to conclude several years before the return of Jesus, any honest assessment of the text simply does not allow for this. But among the many reasons to reject a pre-Day of the LORD conclusion of this prophecy, one of the simplest, is because it concludes with the LORD actually physically present in the land of Israel.

He's got this 100% correct, except he himself doesn't fully understand why, he thinks the reason the Lord is physically present in the land is because he just came from heaven a short time before, when he'd actually already been there for a thousand years.

Quote
That's right, Ezekiel reveals that at the conclusion of Gog's invasion, Jesus the Messiah is physically present on the ground, in the land.


Yep, he's right, he'd been there for a thousand years by the time of Ezekiel 38:19–20.

Quote
According to this text, the Lord Himself says that throughout the earth, both people and animals will "quake at [His] presence." The word used for presence here is the Hebrew word paneh. Paneh is a reference to the actual face of someone or something. When God says that the people of the earth will quake at His paneh, He is saying that they will be terrified because of His actual physical presence, on the ground, in the land of Israel.


You bet the people of the earth are terrified of his presence in Israel, they see what Messiah has been doing there, & they're terrified he's going to bust out of Israel's borders & come after them next, which is the reason Gog & Magog put together an army led by Satan himself to put an end to this upstart Israelite messiah.

Quote
Concerning the word paneh, The New Unger's Bible Dictionary says, "The presence (face) of Jehovah is Jehovah in his own personal presence." The New International Encyclopedia of Bible Words says, "In the OT, being in God's or another's presence is indicated by a preposition (l) prefixed to the Hebrew word panim ('face'). The thought is to be 'before the face of the person."

Paneh is used throughout the Old Testament to refer to the actual presence of God. Jacob, for instance, after wrestling with the Angel of the Lord, referred to seeing God face-to-face: "So Jacob called the name of the place Peniel, saying, 'For I have seen God face [paneh] to face [paneh], and yet my life has been delivered'" (Genesis 32:30).

Yep again, they have been looking at the actual presence of Israel's Messiah for a 1000 years, they don't like it, he terrifies them as they see he never loses a battle.

Quote
and I will not let my holy name be profaned anymore. And the nations shall know that I am the LORD, the Holy One in Israel."

And this is what terrifies Gog & Magog, that they will be made to submit to the rule of Israel's messiah after watching for a 1000 years what he's been doing inside of Israel.

Quote
Other biblical commentators have also taken special note of God's presence in Ezekiel's oracle as evidence that it is a parallel to the Battle of Armageddon in Revelation 19. Apologist Dave Hunt for instance has stated:

"There is no doubt, from both Zechariah 12 and Revelation 1 and 19, that this personal coming of Yahweh to rescue His people and to destroy Antichrist and his armies takes place at Armageddon. It is significant, then, that similar language concerning the personal presence of God is found in Ezekiel 38 and 39, thus identifying the event described there as Armageddon also."

To call two battles separated by a 1000 years as "parallel"  is a real stretch if you ask me.

Quote
Hunt's observations are correct. But while most conservative, premillennialist, futurist interpreters who take Scripture at face value and use a literalist method of interpretation will interpret the entirety of this passage in a literal fashion, when it comes to these two texts which show that God is actually present and in the land, many suddenly switch to an allegorical and non-literalist interpretation, without any justification for doing so.

Well then take the most accurate & literal approach possible & place it where Christ's own words in Rev 20: 7-10 place the battle with Gog & Magog, at the end of the Millenium. Why are Christ's own words so hard for these commentators to understand?

Quote
It is high time for the Church to begin wrestling with the implications.

I'll say so too, but even this individual doesn't understand the implications of what he is saying.


Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #390 on: September 11, 2012, 05:49:55 AM »
Quote from: Paul
Yep, he's right, he'd been there for a thousand years by the time of Ezekiel 38:19–20.

Where do you get this from?

I'm still trying to wrap my head around Jesus being on earth and the whole world not yet believing in who he is--or whatever you say is happening.  Isn't he ruling the world at that point?

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #391 on: September 11, 2012, 06:01:36 AM »
This is said right before his return.   Are there passages with deal with the millenium rule and reign of Christ that give more detail?  [other than some in Rev 21]



10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
 
11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
 
12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
 
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
 
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
 
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
 
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
 
17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

--Rev 22

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #392 on: September 11, 2012, 06:20:13 AM »
But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to myriads of angels, to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the Judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood, which speaks better than the blood of Abel. See to it that you do not refuse Him who is speaking. For if those did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape who turn away from Him who warns from heaven.
(Heb 12:22-25)

Are you inside or out? Are you a sorcerer? A dog? A fornicator? If so, you are outside the city. Unshielded by the walls.

"There is a river that makes glad the city of God"

Then he showed me a river of the water of life, clear as crystal, coming from the throne of God and of the Lamb, in the middle of its street. On either side of the river was the tree of life, bearing twelve kinds of fruit, yielding its fruit every month; and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations. There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him; they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads. And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever. And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place. "And behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is he who heeds the words of the prophecy of this book."
(Rev 22:1-7)

Blessed is the man whose delight is in the law off the Lord and in it he meditates day and night. He shall be like a tree planted by the streams of water bearing fruit in season........Psalm 2

Come Quickly Lord Jesus

Rev 2:16  'Therefore repent; or else I am coming to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of My mouth.

This picture of is a three dimensional revelation of spiritual reality that is inclusive of far more than a future prophecy of some supernatural heaven. It is a picture of the church under the headship of Christ and like an onion peeling to the core it is a picture of the condition of those who have Christ enthroned upon their hearts

"He that believes in me, as the scripture says, 'Out of his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water'".

Let there be light. Thy word o Lord is a lamp to my feet and a light on my path. I have no need of sun or stars because the Lord is my lamp within.

We are the Lamp upon the Lampstand(the churches are characterized as lamps and lampstands as Revelations opens because that is who the revelation is for), shining light into the whole house(the kosmos and the ages)

Yet we do speak wisdom among those who are mature; a wisdom, however, not of this age nor of the rulers of this age, who are passing away; but we speak God's wisdom in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God predestined before the ages to our glory; the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory; but just as it is written, "THINGS WHICH EYE HAS NOT SEEN AND EAR HAS NOT HEARD, AND which HAVE NOT ENTERED THE HEART OF MAN, ALL THAT GOD HAS PREPARED FOR THOSE WHO LOVE HIM." For to us God revealed them through the Spirit; for the Spirit searches all things, even the depths of God. For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God, which things we also speak, not in words taught by human wisdom, but in those taught by the Spirit, combining spiritual thoughts with spiritual words. But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised.
(1Co 2:6-14)

The revelation of John, IMO, is in every place an accumulation of, and deeper expression of, the word pictures of the rest of the old and new testaments, or as I would prefer to put it, the whole fabric of the scriptures.

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Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #393 on: September 11, 2012, 09:10:44 AM »
Quote from: Paul
Yep, he's right, he'd been there for a thousand years by the time of Ezekiel 38:19–20.

Quote
Where do you get this from?

Rev 20:7-9 where Christ tells John that the battle between Christ & Satan's forces of Gog & Magog occurs at the conclusion of the 1000 years.



Quote
I'm still trying to wrap my head around Jesus being on earth and the whole world not yet believing in who he is--or whatever you say is happening.  Isn't he ruling the world at that point?

Christ is not ruling the world until Satan's forces of Gog & Magog have been subdued after the Millenium is over. The Millenium is the time of the regathering of all of Israel to the land promised by God to Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. Only a small fraction of Israel has returned by the opening day of the Millenium, these are the 144000 & the faithful woman in Rev 12 and whatever the remaining population of Israel will be at Christ's return. The Millenium is not a time of peace & tranquility where everybody will love their neighbor, that there is a battle of Gog & Magog led by none other than Satan himself at its' conclusion is proof of that. If there is so much "love thy neighbor" stuff going on during the Millenium, where does all the hatred come from that so many people still want to wipe out Israel?


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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #394 on: September 11, 2012, 11:33:51 AM »

Christ is not ruling the world until Satan's forces of Gog & Magog have been subdued after the Millenium is over. The Millenium is the time of the regathering of all of Israel to the land promised by God to Abraham, Isaac & Jacob. Only a small fraction of Israel has returned by the opening day of the Millenium, these are the 144000 & the faithful woman in Rev 12 and whatever the remaining population of Israel will be at Christ's return. The Millenium is not a time of peace & tranquility where everybody will love their neighbor, that there is a battle of Gog & Magog led by none other than Satan himself at its' conclusion is proof of that. If there is so much "love thy neighbor" stuff going on during the Millenium, where does all the hatred come from that so many people still want to wipe out Israel?


Jesus said, "Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect." [Matt. 24:23-24]

The true Christ reigns over all things, since the day he sat down in the throne of his Father, after his resurrection, as Peter said in Acts 2.

Acts 2:32-36
This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Being made "Christ" means that he fulfils all the prophecies about the promised Messiah. What else could it mean?

Isaiah said,

Isaiah 9:6-7
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the Lord of hosts will perform this.

I believe Jesus Christ reigns in Jerusalem over the Israel of God, upon the throne of David, and there will be no end to his kingdom. There is no scripture that says Jesus reigns for a "thousand years," but that expression represents the time that individual saints (those who are "beheaded") reign with him. His reign is forever. And, he rules the nations with a rod of iron.

Jesus has power over all things, in heaven and earth. He said, "All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth." [Matt. 28:18] And,

Luke 10:18
And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Paul said, Jesus sits at God's right hand in the heavenly places, and he is "Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come." [Eph. 1:21]

According to many dispensationalists, Christ's kingdom was postponed, because some Jews did not believe he was the Christ. But in that case, he would not really be "Christ," and he would not be reigning over all. He would be an inferior Christ, not the real one. The Scripture shows that the Jews who deny that Jesus is the Christ are no longer Israel.

Acts 3:22-24 
For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you.
And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.
Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days.

Paul said they are branches broken off from their tree. [Rom. 11:17]

John said,

1 John 2:22
Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

Doug

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #395 on: September 11, 2012, 12:15:27 PM »
My thoughts on the order of events.

A large Gog-Magog battle that starts the "end-time"
1260 days of "peace" - Seals 1...4
Seal 5 starts the violent 1260 days
Rapture between seal 6 and 7.
Seal 7 starts wrath of God.
So the saints are saved from God's wrath. Not of the anti-christ's wrath
God's wrath lasts 7 trumpets and 7 bowls.
That's 360 days + 10 days = Duration of the flood
A year + 10 days because while the year started at 1 Tishri it's announcement was delayed because the 1st ten days was a time of deep praying.
10 days are Days of Awe.
(Rev 8:1) And when he opened the seventh seal, silence occurred in heaven, like half an hour.
Yom Kippur/Atonement day is a day of fasting and silence.


When the first 1260 days of the end-time end 3 timers start.
1260 days until the end of the trumpets.
1290 days until the end of the bowls.
1335 days until Hanukah.

Hanukah = Festival of lights = Feast of rededication


In about 167 BC  Antiochus Epiphanes conquered Jerusalem and put a Zeus statue in the Holies of Holies and offered a swine on the altar of burned offering.
The Jews revolted (Maccabees)  and won. Rededication of the Temple started and was completed at the end of the 1335 days

(Dan 12:11) And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that makes desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.

(Dan 12:12) Blessed is he that waits, and comes to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.


1000 year reign of Jesus.
Satan released for a short while.
Armageddon.
The end c.q. beginning :=)
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #396 on: September 11, 2012, 04:27:23 PM »
Quote
A large Gog-Magog battle that starts the "end-time"

Does this go on for 3.5 years?  Because Daniel starts counting from the time Jerusalem is invaded, and Jesus returns at the end of the Gog-Magog war.

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #397 on: September 11, 2012, 04:34:59 PM »
My thoughts on the order of events.

A large Gog-Magog battle that starts the "end-time"
The "end-time is generally considered to be the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy. Is this what you mean?

Quote
Rapture between seal 6 and 7.
What wording leads you to believe this? I fail to see it

Quote
Hanukah = Festival of lights = Feast of rededication
What does this have to do with anything? This was never an ordained festival under the Old Covenant law.

Quote
1000 year reign of Jesus.
Satan released for a short while.
Armageddon.
The end c.q. beginning :=)
Wrong timeline, you have Armageddon at the conclusion of the Millenium, it actually occurs at the conclusion of the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy just before the 1000 year reign of Christ begins. It is Christ's battle with Gog & Magog that occurs at the conclusion of the Millenium.

Offline Paul L

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #398 on: September 11, 2012, 04:50:45 PM »
Quote
A large Gog-Magog battle that starts the "end-time"

Does this go on for 3.5 years?  Because Daniel starts counting from the time Jerusalem is invaded, and Jesus returns at the end of the Gog-Magog war.

As I just pointed out to WhiteWings, the Gog-Magog war occurs at the conclusion of the Millenium. Please folks, just read Rev 20:7-9, it is crystal clear when this occurs, Armegeddon is by now over a thousand years in the past & AntiChrist has been dispatched into the pages of history never to return.

Armageddon is AntiChrist's war with Israel's messiah.

Gog-Magog War- is Satan's war with Israel's messiah.

By the time the Gog-Magog war begins, the false prophet & beast have already been enjoying the lake of fire for a thousand years. Satan no longer has capable human surrogates to do his bidding, so he personally must take charge of the the invasion forces as described in Ezek 38 & 39.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Prophecy
« Reply #399 on: September 11, 2012, 06:18:21 PM »
My thoughts on the order of events.

A large Gog-Magog battle that starts the "end-time"
The "end-time is generally considered to be the 70th week of Daniel's prophecy. Is this what you mean?

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Rapture between seal 6 and 7.
What wording leads you to believe this? I fail to see it
Rev 7
9 After these things I perceived, and lo! a vast throng which no one was able to number, out of every nation and out of the tribes and peoples and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lambkin, clothed in white robes and with palm fronds in their hands."
10 And they are crying with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation be our God's, Who is sitting on the throne, And the Lambkin's!"
11 And all the messengers stood around the throne and the elders and the four animals. And they fall on their faces before the throne and worship God,
12 saying, "Amen! Blessing and glory and wisdom and thanks and honor and power and strength be our God's for the eons of the eons. Amen!"
13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, "These clothed in white robes, who are they, and whence came they?
14 And I have declared to him: "My lord, you are aware.And he said to me, "These are those coming out of the great affliction. And they rinse their robes, and they whiten them in the blood of the Lambkin."

Above people who were taken out of tribulation.
A few verses later the 7th seal is broken.

Rev 8:1 And when It opens the seventh seal, a hush occurred in heaven as it were half an hour."

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Hanukah = Festival of lights = Feast of rededication
What does this have to do with anything? This was never an ordained festival under the Old Covenant law.
It's a pattern set in the OT.

Jesus attended to the festival too. That makes it valid for me.
John 10:22 Now there came to be the Dedications in Jerusalem, and it was winter."
John 10:23 And Jesus walked in the sanctuary in the portico of Solomon.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...