Author Topic: New World Order - What Does It Mean?  (Read 29633 times)

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Paul Hazelwood

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #325 on: April 09, 2009, 07:29:34 PM »
Tell that to those who lived under communism for 70 years.

Oh, but the 100 million who were murdered won't be able to hear you.


Not intending to tell them anything so what your saying is mute.


Offline Molly

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #326 on: April 09, 2009, 07:30:51 PM »
Tell that to those who lived under communism for 70 years.

Oh, but the 100 million who were murdered won't be able to hear you.


Not intending to tell them anything so what your saying is mute.


communism and fascism is the face of the nwo.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #327 on: April 09, 2009, 07:32:36 PM »
Tell that to those who lived under communism for 70 years.

Oh, but the 100 million who were murdered won't be able to hear you.


Not intending to tell them anything so what your saying is mute.


communism and fascism is the face of the nwo.


As opposed to the Christendom face of the same likeness.   They are of their father the devil.

It is the people who are not afraid of not conforming to either that will make the difference.





Offline Molly

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #328 on: April 09, 2009, 07:34:47 PM »
Tell that to those who lived under communism for 70 years.

Oh, but the 100 million who were murdered won't be able to hear you.


Not intending to tell them anything so what your saying is mute.


communism and fascism is the face of the nwo.


As opposed to the Christendom face of the same likeness.   They are of their father the devil.

It is the people who are not afraid of not conforming to either that will make the difference.





You really have a chip on your shoulder about Christianity.  But that has nothing to do with me.  I love the Lord Jesus and will continue to love him no matter what, and no matter what you say.  Christianity in the person of our founders gave me my freedom.

The likes of Hagee etc most likely work for the nwo, unless he just can't read his Bible and see that it says the Messiah already has come, and that his name is Jesus.  The word, 'Christ' means Messiah.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #329 on: April 09, 2009, 07:41:07 PM »
Tell that to those who lived under communism for 70 years.

Oh, but the 100 million who were murdered won't be able to hear you.


Not intending to tell them anything so what your saying is mute.


communism and fascism is the face of the nwo.


As opposed to the Christendom face of the same likeness.   They are of their father the devil.

It is the people who are not afraid of not conforming to either that will make the difference.





You really have a chip on your shoulder about Christianity.  But that has nothing to do with me. 



Of course it don't.





Offline Cardinal

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #330 on: April 09, 2009, 07:58:39 PM »

I said it is a coincidence that the same groups whose nations we are invading because they are 'terrorists' are, at the same time, building mosques everywhere here.  Two opposing facts juxtaposed should not be too difficult to keep track of.

It is also a coincidence that we need pat acts to severely abridge and limit the God given privacy and rights of the American people because of terrorists, while at the same time leaving our borders wide open for any kind of person or criminal and his wares to be smuggled in.

These facts are not lost on any except the most challenged.

 :cloud9: I see your point Molly. I think it IS happening, it WILL be bad for awhile (who knows how long), and HE is the ONLY hope any of us have. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #331 on: April 09, 2009, 10:09:08 PM »

Now this is scary, I believe it,  the NWO is real.


http://www.nwo4life.net/

IceDash

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #332 on: April 11, 2009, 11:07:33 AM »
I have this weird dream, I am hoping someone may understand what it mean:

I was reading a bible and I saw three color that go like this: Black
Blue
Red

3 differant color and some bad guys reading it and trying to do something with the bible, looking for clues, they want power, and I talk to one of man who have pyshic gift and told him "What the bad guys doing with the bible and the colors?" and he thinking in his head and saw the future and said "something not good"

I woke up

What the heck it mean and I have a feeling my dream is talking about the nwo and Obama...

IceDash

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #333 on: April 11, 2009, 12:05:59 PM »
check this out: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=75858


and this:
http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message736961/pg1

This is interesting, they cut off Ron Paul off, this is very interesting!


(Moderator's note...Interesting links..note of caution...following the Ron Paul video, the language in the comments is definitely 'R' rated and not endorsed by TM)
« Last Edit: April 11, 2009, 08:15:48 PM by jabcat »

martincisneros

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #334 on: April 12, 2009, 05:14:51 AM »
This thread's about to drive me running and screaming into full preterism and away from anything Biblical.  And I mean FULL preterism.  Shutting down the thread's not the problem on this one with all of the premillenialism and amillenialism about the devil is coming, the devil is coming, the devil is coming -- the red coats! -- gasp!! -- can't you see them!!! -- the devil is coming, the devil is coming, the devil is coming!  Shut this one down and it's just going to spill over into some 666 thread or some false light abuse of Revelation 17 and 18. 

Seems to me like some people were absolutely molested with Hal Lindsey stuff when they were younger and never have found their way into a Bible, but keep running to the current events to get their spiritual fix on more heralding of AntiChrist.  I guess I'm heading back into Book of Revelation studies that I was genuinely hoping to be on a Sabbatical from, 'cause I was on mental overload when I realized the allusion to the ancient myth of Europa riding the beast, but it's between that and trashing my Bible tonight figuring that I'm way too positive about everything to have anything to do with such a pessimistically lost to the devil Christ Jesus whose scepter obviously rusted a long time ago in the grave along with his body.  If in the next life only we have hope, then His conquest of death is a total sham!

I'm annoyed, but not in any kind of crisis of faith as the above might indicate.  I'm genuinely hoping I'm not going to be perpetually jet lagged until my faith comes to harvest on something that God's lit a fire under my butt again this week about pressing through with Him about.  I'm going to go and tithe for a few hours to snap myself out of this half exhausted, half wanting to choke something emotional sensitivity that I've got right now.  The most insidious principalities, powers, and rulers of darkness at Satan's command are spirits of conspiracy that see a conspiracy behind every Bush.  Chokes the Word absolutely every single time and the Word [helplessly] brings nothing to harvest.  It's the most seductive thing that Satan has.  It's more delicious to the carnal mind than money, and it's a blessing blocker 'cause it puts everything in your mouth that the Bible says you're absolutely never supposed to say.  Upon a careful rereading of the context 75 to 100 times, the first 8 chapters of Isaiah call a spirit of conspiracy the spirit of rebellion: "You are not to say, 'It is a conspiracy!' In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy, And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it." 

At first, it seems like he's describing apocalyptic events, but as you read carefully, he's talking about all of this mess of who's going to get who.  One of those places where the chapter number and verse number designations really do us all a disservice.  I guess it's sorta like reading through Job where with that book, it's when you come to the end and find God calling all of Job's friends total blasphemers teetering on Him torching 'em if it weren't for His faithful intercessor, Job, who has been transformed by God into the fulfillment of the very need he identified, and in doing so fulfilled the law of Christ and experienced his own new heavens and new earth where righteousness dwelt for the rest of his life in his own Garden of Eden.  As James said in the New Testament, when you're looking at all of these world events, consider the perseverance of Job and the end intended by the Lord through his refusal to call conspiracy all that his friends were calling conspiracy.

IceDash

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #335 on: April 12, 2009, 07:54:48 AM »
This thread's about to drive me running and screaming into full preterism and away from anything Biblical.  And I mean FULL preterism.  Shutting down the thread's not the problem on this one with all of the premillenialism and amillenialism about the devil is coming, the devil is coming, the devil is coming -- the red coats! -- gasp!! -- can't you see them!!! -- the devil is coming, the devil is coming, the devil is coming!  Shut this one down and it's just going to spill over into some 666 thread or some false light abuse of Revelation 17 and 18. 

Seems to me like some people were absolutely molested with Hal Lindsey stuff when they were younger and never have found their way into a Bible, but keep running to the current events to get their spiritual fix on more heralding of AntiChrist.  I guess I'm heading back into Book of Revelation studies that I was genuinely hoping to be on a Sabbatical from, 'cause I was on mental overload when I realized the allusion to the ancient myth of Europa riding the beast, but it's between that and trashing my Bible tonight figuring that I'm way too positive about everything to have anything to do with such a pessimistically lost to the devil Christ Jesus whose scepter obviously rusted a long time ago in the grave along with his body.  If in the next life only we have hope, then His conquest of death is a total sham!

I'm annoyed, but not in any kind of crisis of faith as the above might indicate.  I'm genuinely hoping I'm not going to be perpetually jet lagged until my faith comes to harvest on something that God's lit a fire under my butt again this week about pressing through with Him about.  I'm going to go and tithe for a few hours to snap myself out of this half exhausted, half wanting to choke something emotional sensitivity that I've got right now.  The most insidious principalities, powers, and rulers of darkness at Satan's command are spirits of conspiracy that see a conspiracy behind every Bush.  Chokes the Word absolutely every single time and the Word [helplessly] brings nothing to harvest.  It's the most seductive thing that Satan has.  It's more delicious to the carnal mind than money, and it's a blessing blocker 'cause it puts everything in your mouth that the Bible says you're absolutely never supposed to say.  Upon a careful rereading of the context 75 to 100 times, the first 8 chapters of Isaiah call a spirit of conspiracy the spirit of rebellion: "You are not to say, 'It is a conspiracy!' In regard to all that this people call a conspiracy, And you are not to fear what they fear or be in dread of it." 

At first, it seems like he's describing apocalyptic events, but as you read carefully, he's talking about all of this mess of who's going to get who.  One of those places where the chapter number and verse number designations really do us all a disservice.  I guess it's sorta like reading through Job where with that book, it's when you come to the end and find God calling all of Job's friends total blasphemers teetering on Him torching 'em if it weren't for His faithful intercessor, Job, who has been transformed by God into the fulfillment of the very need he identified, and in doing so fulfilled the law of Christ and experienced his own new heavens and new earth where righteousness dwelt for the rest of his life in his own Garden of Eden.  As James said in the New Testament, when you're looking at all of these world events, consider the perseverance of Job and the end intended by the Lord through his refusal to call conspiracy all that his friends were calling conspiracy.

This is why most of my topic have be removed about obama....interesting..

so, that's why Jesus said "It will be like the the day of Noah" in other word, you are one of them that's not paying attention, I do and I am not doing it in faith crisis, I am doing to lift my head for hope. I would be surprised if anything anti-christ or the beast did come true soon, anyone talk about it in this place will be removed....included fear

Offline Molly

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #336 on: April 13, 2009, 05:36:39 PM »
God bless the unstoppable 19 year olds who made video after video.  God bless the brave American scientists who lost their jobs and sustained ridicule and threats to tell the truth.  You are God's people on earth.


We have found it.  Unreacted thermite.  The article may not be as groundbreaking as you think.  Hundreds of thousands of people around the world have long known that the three buildings were demolished [controlled demolition].  This has been crystal clear.  Our research is just the last nail in the coffin.  This is not the 'smoking gun,' it is the 'loaded gun.'

--Neils Harrit, Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Denmark



Active thermite discovered in dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe.  Nano thermite caused the buildings to collapse.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o




John 8:32
And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #337 on: April 13, 2009, 06:15:44 PM »
Molly,

For those who know it for years it's just another "I told you so" moment. The others just keep looking the other way.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #338 on: April 13, 2009, 06:43:25 PM »
Molly,

For those who know it for years it's just another "I told you so" moment. The others just keep looking the other way.
I've been waiting for years for the world's scientists to stand up and start publishing papers.  God bless you, Neils Harrit.

As for the rest, maybe some day they will meet Jesus or, even, believe their own lying eyes.

The truth is always in plain sight.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2009, 06:49:14 PM by Molly »

Offline fire walker

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #339 on: April 14, 2009, 10:43:39 AM »
Quote from: martincisneros

  If in the next life only we have hope, then His conquest of death is a total sham!
[/quote

Where is this verse quoted above at? it sure isn't in the bible I've read, or is this verse extra biblical, or does it add or take away from the word?  it doesn't appear to agree with scripture  because bible scripture is very clear that the Death and Ressurection
of Jesus Christ is not a sham, even doubting Thomas saw the light of the truth and believed.

What does that have to do with mans religious struggles to build a New World Order? actualy it should be called the Old World Order or moving to rebuild Babylon that is all Babylon was . a unified world order ruled and controled by man, nothing new about it.  Actualy IMO one would be better off seekng the Lord in the wilderness than to re-enter Babylon.

Peace,
Fire Walker 


If in this life only we have hope in Christ we are of all men most miserable.

                1Cr 14:19

martincisneros

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #340 on: April 14, 2009, 04:11:27 PM »
What does that have to do with mans religious struggles to build a New World Order? actualy it should be called the Old World Order or moving to rebuild Babylon that is all Babylon was . a unified world order ruled and controled by man, nothing new about it.  Actualy IMO one would be better off seekng the Lord in the wilderness than to re-enter Babylon.

Peace,
Fire Walker
My point was, why does everybody think that the devil is in charge.  The Body of Christ in the earth is in charge.  They do what we allow them to do.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  Or does Ephesians 2 about being seated with Him in heavenly places genuinely mean so little to some folks around here?  That was what I was saying.  Revelation 1:5-6: he has made us kings and priests; Romans 5:17: we reign in this life through the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness.  There's nothing in all of the Bible that says that the reprobate can do all things through Christ which strengthens them, or that God's meeting their needs according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.  They don't have the infinite pockets that we do.  1John says our faith has overcome the world.  Well!!  Either it's overcome, or it's not!  No middle ground.  No gap theories allowed in the New Covenant of any kind of dispensational "yes, but not now."  That's not what St. Paul said in 2Corinthians 1 about all of His promises being 'yes' and 'amen.'  2Peter 1 says that we're participants in the divine nature right now through His exceeding great and precious promises that have come to us through His grace and peace, as long as we're adding excellence to our faith so that we're making our calling and election sure in this life.  My Bible says that the desire of the wicked perishes and that He/we are subduing their iniquities (Psalm 112:10; Micah 7:19; John 20:22-23).

Offline Doc

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #341 on: April 14, 2009, 07:52:06 PM »
What does that have to do with mans religious struggles to build a New World Order? actualy it should be called the Old World Order or moving to rebuild Babylon that is all Babylon was . a unified world order ruled and controled by man, nothing new about it.  Actualy IMO one would be better off seekng the Lord in the wilderness than to re-enter Babylon.

Peace,
Fire Walker
My point was, why does everybody think that the devil is in charge.  The Body of Christ in the earth is in charge.  They do what we allow them to do.  Nothing more.  Nothing less.  Or does Ephesians 2 about being seated with Him in heavenly places genuinely mean so little to some folks around here?  That was what I was saying.  Revelation 1:5-6: he has made us kings and priests; Romans 5:17: we reign in this life through the abundance of grace and the gift of righteousness.  There's nothing in all of the Bible that says that the reprobate can do all things through Christ which strengthens them, or that God's meeting their needs according to His riches in glory by Christ Jesus.  They don't have the infinite pockets that we do.  1John says our faith has overcome the world.  Well!!  Either it's overcome, or it's not!  No middle ground.  No gap theories allowed in the New Covenant of any kind of dispensational "yes, but not now."  That's not what St. Paul said in 2Corinthians 1 about all of His promises being 'yes' and 'amen.'  2Peter 1 says that we're participants in the divine nature right now through His exceeding great and precious promises that have come to us through His grace and peace, as long as we're adding excellence to our faith so that we're making our calling and election sure in this life.  My Bible says that the desire of the wicked perishes and that He/we are subduing their iniquities (Psalm 112:10; Micah 7:19; John 20:22-23).

Point taken, but how do we balance this with satan being given rulership of the earth? Unless that rulership has already been removed/ revoked in actuality... I'm thinking of Hebrews here, which says that we know all has been made subject to Christ (and by extension, His body), but we do not yet see all subjected to Him...
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
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God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

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martincisneros

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #342 on: April 14, 2009, 08:28:51 PM »
Point taken, but how do we balance this with satan being given rulership of the earth? Unless that rulership has already been removed/ revoked in actuality... I'm thinking of Hebrews here, which says that we know all has been made subject to Christ (and by extension, His body), but we do not yet see all subjected to Him...
On the issues that Hebrews was addressing: either the eternal passing away of Biblical and God sanctioned/endorsed Judaism in 70AD.  And Hebrews 5:11-14 where Christians aren't yet thoroughly trained in the Written Word to have their 5 physical senses trained to know the difference between good and evil. 

I've been watching quite a bit of Kenneth Gentry's stuff on YouTube recently 'cause although he's still an ET believing Calvinist, he's at the same time a partial preterist postmillenialist that believes that the Gospel will prevail over all things on this earth.  And he brought up some interesting points on the binding of Satan with his conclusion that Satan is already bound because of what Jesus said about not being able to spoil the strong man's house without first binding him, and how the book of Revelation will say that Satan is bound to keep him from deceiving the nations any longer.  With Revelation 20 you've got those that have been raised from the dead in the first resurrection reigning as kings and priests with Christ and yet Revelation 1:5-6 says that we're ALREADY there, and I'd have more than enough to dump on that from St. Paul's writings to corroborate.  And he makes the interesting point about how in the Old Testament, only Israel was awake, to varying degrees, to the true God.  But since the Apostles began their mission, Christianity has pretty much been [at least in representative form] in every nation on earth.  I think I've basically covered his perspective on that, but in case I left out any verses that he brings up along those lines, here's the link for the YouTube 8 or 10 minute segment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7dBF6YzYlo&feature=PlayList&p=C31A25E0CE0A1DC5&index=19

When he first brought up his belief that Satan is already bound, I sorta rolled my eyes at first, but when I went ahead and heard him out, I thought he might have a point with how easy it is to bind Satan the rest of the way when you're praying in a deliverance situation or receiving some specific need met.  Beyond just the authority of having the Name of Jesus and being free from sin in His Name, a whole lot of things are a whole lot easier than they were in the Old Testament with the example of when Daniel had to partial fast for 21 days to get the revelation he was after.  I've noticed 3 to 7 days is the absolute most that I've ever had to set aside for some specific revelation from the Lord when I've been aware of a particular answer that I was after and had something specific that I could bring up and stand on James chapter 1 about.  Lots of issues by comparison with the Old Testament are a lot easier, so I'm not sure that Kenneth Gentry isn't right about that.

I believe that the New Revised Standard Version would include it as a footnote on the Great Commission passage in Mark 16 that there's a manuscript that quotes Jesus as saying that the term of Satan's years have been fulfilled, but other terrible things draw near.  I used to sorta blow that off with how the last 2000 years have played out, but the more that I'm meditating in the acknowledged canon as time goes by, uh....

Hebrews says that all things are under Him, but we don't yet see the reality of that, but then it continues to address issues related to our growth before it gets into the expected end of Judaism that was soon to happen.  Hebrews 2, 3, 4, and 5 deal with the issues of the temptations that we face while retraining until our bodies are at least up to the level that Christ's was at in His precrucified form.  And I'm not sure that the author isn't talking about walking in demensions of already being raised from the dead physically in this life, both from other teachings of St. Paul and what I've seen with various Christian mystics over the centuries where the stories of some of the miracles are a bit harder to swallow for many people than anything in the present Pentecostal/Charismatic movement.

What would make me lean in the direction of Kenneth Gentry being right about Satan already being bound is all of the statements from St. Paul about our being seated with Christ and that God wouldn't have divided the earth's rulership between us and Satan.  And there is a statement in Colossians about principalities and powers having been spoiled and a public spectacle having been made of them in the sense of the way the Romans would do that with a vanquished foreign ruler, and Paul says this happened at the Cross.

Offline Doc

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #343 on: April 14, 2009, 08:56:34 PM »
Point taken, but how do we balance this with satan being given rulership of the earth? Unless that rulership has already been removed/ revoked in actuality... I'm thinking of Hebrews here, which says that we know all has been made subject to Christ (and by extension, His body), but we do not yet see all subjected to Him...
On the issues that Hebrews was addressing: either the eternal passing away of Biblical and God sanctioned/endorsed Judaism in 70AD.  And Hebrews 5:11-14 where Christians aren't yet thoroughly trained in the Written Word to have their 5 physical senses trained to know the difference between good and evil. 

I've been watching quite a bit of Kenneth Gentry's stuff on YouTube recently 'cause although he's still an ET believing Calvinist, he's at the same time a partial preterist postmillenialist that believes that the Gospel will prevail over all things on this earth.  And he brought up some interesting points on the binding of Satan with his conclusion that Satan is already bound because of what Jesus said about not being able to spoil the strong man's house without first binding him, and how the book of Revelation will say that Satan is bound to keep him from deceiving the nations any longer.  With Revelation 20 you've got those that have been raised from the dead in the first resurrection reigning as kings and priests with Christ and yet Revelation 1:5-6 says that we're ALREADY there, and I'd have more than enough to dump on that from St. Paul's writings to corroborate.  And he makes the interesting point about how in the Old Testament, only Israel was awake, to varying degrees, to the true God.  But since the Apostles began their mission, Christianity has pretty much been [at least in representative form] in every nation on earth.  I think I've basically covered his perspective on that, but in case I left out any verses that he brings up along those lines, here's the link for the YouTube 8 or 10 minute segment:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w7dBF6YzYlo&feature=PlayList&p=C31A25E0CE0A1DC5&index=19

When he first brought up his belief that Satan is already bound, I sorta rolled my eyes at first, but when I went ahead and heard him out, I thought he might have a point with how easy it is to bind Satan the rest of the way when you're praying in a deliverance situation or receiving some specific need met.  Beyond just the authority of having the Name of Jesus and being free from sin in His Name, a whole lot of things are a whole lot easier than they were in the Old Testament with the example of when Daniel had to partial fast for 21 days to get the revelation he was after.  I've noticed 3 to 7 days is the absolute most that I've ever had to set aside for some specific revelation from the Lord when I've been aware of a particular answer that I was after and had something specific that I could bring up and stand on James chapter 1 about.  Lots of issues by comparison with the Old Testament are a lot easier, so I'm not sure that Kenneth Gentry isn't right about that.

I believe that the New Revised Standard Version would include it as a footnote on the Great Commission passage in Mark 16 that there's a manuscript that quotes Jesus as saying that the term of Satan's years have been fulfilled, but other terrible things draw near.  I used to sorta blow that off with how the last 2000 years have played out, but the more that I'm meditating in the acknowledged canon as time goes by, uh....

Hebrews says that all things are under Him, but we don't yet see the reality of that, but then it continues to address issues related to our growth before it gets into the expected end of Judaism that was soon to happen.  Hebrews 2, 3, 4, and 5 deal with the issues of the temptations that we face while retraining until our bodies are at least up to the level that Christ's was at in His precrucified form.  And I'm not sure that the author isn't talking about walking in demensions of already being raised from the dead physically in this life, both from other teachings of St. Paul and what I've seen with various Christian mystics over the centuries where the stories of some of the miracles are a bit harder to swallow for many people than anything in the present Pentecostal/Charismatic movement.

What would make me lean in the direction of Kenneth Gentry being right about Satan already being bound is all of the statements from St. Paul about our being seated with Christ and that God wouldn't have divided the earth's rulership between us and Satan.  And there is a statement in Colossians about principalities and powers having been spoiled and a public spectacle having been made of them in the sense of the way the Romans would do that with a vanquished foreign ruler, and Paul says this happened at the Cross.

A lot of that makes sense to me, and I've seen at least in passing others addressing the issue of Satan's already being bound; I've wondered about it myself from time to time.

One thing I wanted to bring up though was that Hebrews 5 passage you mentioned. I don't think that what that is saying is that we're to actually learn to discern between good and evil, but that we're to discern apart  from good and evil. I did a word study on (discern) diakrisis  and its root, diakrino (diakrino means to reflexively withdraw from) That passage really seems to be saying that we are to learn to judge good and evil as both being from the same tree and not to eat of it, but rather eat from the tree of life instead. If all we're doing is judging between good and evil, then we're still eating from that same tree that God told us in the garden leads to death, in trying to choose the good over the evil. We're trying to become God all over again. We need to let God be God and let Him decide what is good and what is evil.

Edited to add; if Satan is already bound, then that means we're already in the millennium, yes?
« Last Edit: April 14, 2009, 09:01:17 PM by Doc »
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

martincisneros

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #344 on: April 14, 2009, 09:05:31 PM »
Yes!  The purpose of the discerning between good and evil so that we can choose the good and reject the evil consistently with our physical members is so that we'll walk after the Tree of Life.

A gentle (or a Word filled) tongue is a tree of life, but deceit in it crushes the spirit. Proverbs 15:4

Hebrews 3:1-2a:

1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession (i.e. confession), Christ Jesus;
2Who was faithful to him that appointed him...

martincisneros

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #345 on: April 14, 2009, 09:07:09 PM »
The millenium is the reign of the Saints, and that's what I've surprisingly had to argue for on this thread in the face of a lot of "que cera, cera."

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #346 on: April 14, 2009, 09:23:36 PM »
Yes!  The purpose of the discerning between good and evil so that we can choose the good and reject the evil consistently with our physical members is so that we'll walk after the Tree of Life.

A gentle (or a Word filled) tongue is a tree of life, but deceit in it crushes the spirit. Proverbs 15:4

Hebrews 3:1-2a:

1Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession (i.e. confession), Christ Jesus;
2Who was faithful to him that appointed him...

Er, wait a sec. I thought what I was saying was that we are being instructed not to discern between good and evil, by trying to choose the good over the evil, but rather put our notions of good and evil aside. But then you agreed with me by re-stating the opposite? I'm confused.
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur

martincisneros

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #347 on: April 14, 2009, 09:45:06 PM »
Diakrino:  to separate, make a distinction, discriminate, to prefer
to learn by discrimination, to try, decide
to determine, give judgment, decide a dispute
to withdraw from one, desert
to separate one's self in a hostile spirit, to oppose, strive with dispute, contend
to be at variance with one's self, hesitate, doubt (online source link on definition)

i.e. on where I'm going with this: to withdraw between good and evil, or to withdraw good from evil, or between good from evil.

Diakrisis: a distinguishing, discerning, judging (online source link on definition)

martincisneros

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #348 on: April 14, 2009, 09:46:27 PM »
I was saying that the discerning between good and evil is pointless without the High Priestly ministry of Jesus and drawing upon the tree of life by drawing upon His High Priestly ministry with the confession of our faith of God's promises.

Offline Doc

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Re: New World Order - What Does It Mean?
« Reply #349 on: April 14, 2009, 09:57:35 PM »
Diakrino:  to separate, make a distinction, discriminate, to prefer
to learn by discrimination, to try, decide
to determine, give judgment, decide a dispute
to withdraw from one, desert
to separate one's self in a hostile spirit, to oppose, strive with dispute, contend
to be at variance with one's self, hesitate, doubt (online source link on definition)

i.e. on where I'm going with this: to withdraw between good and evil, or to withdraw good from evil, or between good from evil.

Diakrisis: a distinguishing, discerning, judging (online source link on definition)


Ok, that explains the difference in our understanding. I was using the e-sword Strong's concordance which gives the definition of diakrino as:

G1252
διακρίνω
diakrinō
dee-ak-ree'-no
From G1223 and G2919; toseparate thoroughly, that is, (literally and reflexively) to withdraw from, or (by implication) oppose; figuratively to discriminate (by implication decide), or (reflexively) hesitate: - contend, make (to) differ (-ence), discern, doubt, judge, be partial, stagger, waver.

Because he doesn't add the "one" to "withdraw from", it makes it easy to see that as to reflexively withdraw from both. So I read that as to seperate ourselves thoroughly or reflexively withdraw from both good and evil (both being from the same tree).

I'm not quite certain how to reconcile your understanding of this with the picture of the two trees in the garden. God did tell us to avoid the tree that contains both good and evil, did He not?
God does not instruct us to pray to change His mind. He wants us to pray so that we'll know His mind.
 
"Prayer doesn't change God, it changes me." --C.S. Lewis

God never had or needed a Plan B. He's still on Plan A.

Res Veritas Loquitur