Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Book of Revelation

letters to 7 churches correspond to 7 seals, 7 trumpets, and 7 bowls in # order

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WhiteWings:
I've found something that belongs in this thread (1st and 2nd post)
Unfortunately I don't understand much of it. But might be of use to someone.

1] The Church of Ephesus (33-64 A.D.)
2] The Church of Smyrna (64-313 A.D.)
3] The Church of Pergamos (313-529 A.D.)
4] The Church of Thyatira (529-1517 A.D.)
5] The Church of Sardis (1517-1776 A.D.)
6] The Church of Philadelphia (1776-1914 A.D.)
7] The Church of Laodicea (1914-1993 A.D.)

http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/COLDFUSION/booklet.cfm?PID=17

Green-Arrow:

--- Quote from: Seed Sower on December 11, 2010, 07:21:56 PM ---Dear Brothers and Sisters,

Has anyone noticed that the seals open before any trumpet starts to blow?

Rev 8:1-2  And when he opened the seventh seal, there came silence in heaven about half-an-hour, and I saw the seven angels who before God have stood, and there were given to them seven trumpets.

Rev 8:6  And the seven angels having the seven trumpets prepared themselves, that they might trumpet.

Seed Sower

--- End quote ---

I've always thought the letters, seals, trumpets, and bowls were all saying the exact same thing and each one corresponding to time, length, width, and breadth, or the Church being filled with all of the fullness of God in Ephesians chapters 2 and 3.

Scrondublius:
Some interesting aspects I've never heard of about this book:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuAImzD1ivI

marie glen:

--- Quote from: eaglesway on December 12, 2010, 05:17:21 PM --- If you look at the apocalypse(John's revelation) as a wheel, the seals are the rim, the various visions and declarations and prophecies are the spokes, and the revelation of Jesus at the "ephiphana" or "parousia" of Messiah is the hub.

In such a view, the trumpets and the bowls occur simultaneously, alternating towards the conclusion of the visions...... notice:

second trumpet- 1/3 sea becomes blood
second bowl- all the sea becomes blood

third trumpet- 1/3 rivers and springs become blood
third bowl- all the rivers and springs become blood

fourth trumpet -1/3 sun darkened
fourth bowl- sun scorches men with intense heat

fifth trumpet- poured on the throne of the beast they gnaw their tongues for pain
fifth bowl- Abbadon opened locusts as scorpions descend upon all who do not have the seal of God in their forheads

sixth trumpet- four angels bound at the river Euphrates released, 1/3 mankind killed by war
sixth bowl- poured out on the river Euphrates to dry it up and make it a thoroughfare for the kings of the east

seventh trumpet- in the days when the seventh trumpet is sounded the mystery of God is finished..."The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our God and His Messiah and He will rule unto the age of the ages
seventh bowl- "It is finished"

And I saw another sign in the heaven, great and wonderful, seven messengers having the seven last(eshcatos) plagues, because in these was completed(teleo-filled up discharged) the wrath of God, (Rev 15:1) This being properly translated (IMO) would indicate that the bowls are the "completing" judgments- like in a one two punch, one being the trumpet, two being the bowl.

I believe the two witnesses are calling down these plagues, trumpet (1/3) then bowl (filled up), trumpet, bowl, etc.

The timeline of the narration(regardless of whether one considers this to be literal, typological, or both) is that from the opening of the sixth seal on to the seventh all visions(the trumpets, the bowls, the two witnesses, the giant messenger, etc.) are spokes in a wheel. The parousia/ephipania of Messaih is the hub-    notice:

Seventh trumpet- "the mystery of God is finished" (Behold I show you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shal all be changed in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet" "for the trumpet shall sound and the archangel shout")- "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and His Messiah"

Seventh Bowl- "It Is Finished", every mountain leveled every island flees away, Babylon judged

Two witnesses-
These have the power to shut up the sky, so that rain will not fall during the days of their prophesying; and they have power over the waters to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every plague, as often as they desire. (Rev 11:6)
And those who dwell on the earth will rejoice over them and celebrate; and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those who dwell on the earth.
(Rev 11:10)
And they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here"(first ressurection, in the cloud of overcomers, archangels shout, last trumpet, meet the Lord in the air) Then they went up into heaven in the cloud, and their enemies watched them.
(Rev 11:12)

Notice, immediately after the completion of the two witnesses course, the second woe(sixth trumpet) is past and the third(seventh trumpet) woe "comes quickly". 
Rev 11:14  The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15  And the seventh angel (third woe)sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.



When Daniels sealed book is unsealed by the Lamb for John, we see as the seals are released, various visions of the unfolding completion of the plan for this age and glimpses in to both the "anakepholaomai" (Eph 1:10)...the "gathering into one" of all things; and the" apocastasis" (Acts 3:19) ...the restitution of all things (Rev 5:13 Rev 21:5,6). I personally believe the apocalypse that Jesus gave to John is both literal -towards the foreknown history of the end of the times(chronos) and seasons(kairos) of this age(aion)- and typological, revealing eternal truths always active in the NOW of the I AM-even as Daniels former revelation was also both literal and eternal(time transcending Now/I AM truth).

When the "Mystery of God is finished" as it speaks concerning the seventh trumpet- the lid will have been taken off, the veil torn so to speak, for all the world, concerning the purpose of the sons of God, which is the reconciliation of all things(Romans 8:19-30), which will be completed in the ages to come(Eph 2:7)-but not as a mystery. It will be completed as the open declared administration of God (Eph 1:9,10). Paul refers to this mystery in his epistles, especially Ephesians and Colossians. (Eph 1:9,10; 3:3,4,9; 6:19 & Colossians 1:16-27 & Romans 11:32-36; 16:25,56). When the parousia/epiphania/apocalupto/musterion of Christ is fulfilled at the end of this age(in the DAY/NOW/I AM of God it is already finished....and we are seeing it in the eye of faith, upon whom the ends of the age have come in Christ), the veil over heavens will be rolled away(all men will see the purpose of God), the sign of the son of man will appear in the heavens(all men will see the Lordship/throne of Yashua Moschaich).

--- End quote ---

hi! found myself reading this (again).. had some thoughts..

I think I can see (your) wheel, sort of.. I like your phrase "trumpet (1/3) then bowl (filled up)"

I think they overlap, in that Revelation is like a symphony with its notes and once a note sounds, it continues to the 'end'. (As do the seals.. and the ride/progression of the horsemen..)

..and I especially like "Seventh trumpet- "the mystery of God is finished" (Behold I show you a mystery we shall not all sleep but we shal all be changed in a moment, in a twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet" "for the trumpet shall sound and the archangel shout")- "the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our God and His Messiah"

I've long thought 'as the saints go up (meet the Lord in the air b4 His feet touching down on Mt of Olives, Zech 14:4) ...as the saints 'go up' the bowls 'go down' / are "poured out" and yes, I think they are concurrent.

 - " Seventh Bowl- "It Is Finished", every mountain leveled every island flees away, Babylon judged "

and, "Notice, immediately after the completion of the two witnesses course, the second woe(sixth trumpet) is past and the third(seventh trumpet) woe "comes quickly".

 yes, I've noticed that too..

the two witnesses finish their testimony, are killed, a voice says "come up here" just precedes the 7th trump (just thinking out loud, the two witnesses are a bit of a mystery to me)

..the 4th angel sounded and 1/3 less light day and night, "and I looked and I heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, "woe, woe, woe to the inhabitants of the earth, because of the remaining blasts of the trumpet of the three angels who about to sound" - Rev 8:13

woe 1 - (5th trump) out of the bottomless pit, darkness (the depths at which the wandering heart from God, can go, is bottomless).. loud locusts with fire from head and tail sting mankind 5 months..

woe 2 - (6th trump) war and troops kill 1/3 mankind..

woe 3 - in the 7th trumpet's sounding is the seven bowls - "and the 7th angel sounded.. 'your wrath has come' (the nations had become angry).." Rev 11:15..18 (imo, Rev 10,12 and 13 are inserts)
 
And chapter 14 ='s "the two harvests" - "gathered to Armegeddon" "and the smoke of their torment will rise up forever"/will never be forgotten!! (imo.) And "we shall all be changed.. at the last trumpet.." (1 Cor 15:52) "the kingdoms of the world have become the kingdoms of our LORD and of his Christ and He shall reign.." (Rev 11:15) (see rev 16:14,15,16)

Rev 15:2,3,5,6 - "the saints of God on something like a sea of glass mingled with fire" (radiant) "sing the song of Moses and of the Lamb.. ..the tabernacle of heaven is opened and out of the temple come seven angels in pure white linen, with seven plagues"

&Quote - "I personally believe the apocalypse that Jesus gave to John is both literal -towards the foreknown history of the end of the times(chronos) and seasons(kairos) of this age(aion)- and typological, revealing eternal truths always active in the NOW of the I AM-even as Daniels former revelation was also both literal and eternal(time transcending Now/I AM truth)." :iagree: and i believe aLL are learning good from evil (which is life from death) and, learning, to wander form God/Life/Perfection can only result in apocalypse/utter collapse which unveils the folly..
                   :smile: :Chinscratch:
I think I can see a wheel but perhaps I would envision it more as, hub as truth declared midst this imperfection, here as a scroll unrolled by the Lamb.. and spokes which telescope - is what I'm seeing - spokes as effects having two levels, the trumpets, telescoping into the bowls.. and the rim as hard solid reality (iron/truth) which rolls on eternal, and the lesson is to step out of truth/God/Life(!) is to have said wheel run you over. It's unavoidable. [Without YHWH's intervention, there go all, as thinking ability (endowed) includes choice which brought/brings about a whole new world/tree of possibilities.. yet to wander from God/Life/Perfection is a "terrible" thing!!!!]
           :Peace2:   








marie glen:

--- Quote from: Scrondublius on June 13, 2014, 02:46:09 PM ---Some interesting aspects I've never heard of about this book:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuAImzD1ivI

--- End quote ---

I'm at about 3 minutes (into the video) but have to pause it and run.. but just had to say (so far) -

I love history!! thanks for posting this, it looks very interesting! :)

5/6 minutes.. interesting.. nothing new under the sun..
..some new and awesome ideas on this video though! I wasn't always sure where he was heading as I've never heard of him before.. looking forward to the rest, 36.52

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