Author Topic: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days  (Read 80691 times)

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Livelystone

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #200 on: March 15, 2009, 08:17:55 PM »
When was the first Temple really torn down....... not in AD 70 as many sem to think

Nor either when Jesus was crucified even though He was the cornerstone because until the last Apostle was taken out of the way by being killed or dying (Until "he who letteth let", that translated means to hold to and guard the truth) the Temple still stood being made up of those who were part of the foundation with Him within them...... or as how Nathan pointed out and agreed upon by others in the preceding pots above was as Jesus said of Peter, (translated means piece of a rock) "on this rock I build my church",....... it was not torn down in one instance but will it be built as one instance?....... Malachi seems to have indicated that it would"

Mal 3:1    Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Some say the above verse refers to the baptism of the Holy Sprit but the heart of man never became the Temple of the Lord until AFTER one is baptized in the Holy Spirit........ before that it was a only a place for "lucifer man of sin worship".

Blessings

Doug

Offline Nathan

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #201 on: March 16, 2009, 04:48:23 PM »
When was the first Temple really torn down....... not in AD 70 as many sem to think

Nor either when Jesus was crucified even though He was the cornerstone because until the last Apostle was taken out of the way by being killed or dying (Until "he who letteth let", that translated means to hold to and guard the truth) the Temple still stood being made up of those who were part of the foundation with Him within them...... or as how Nathan pointed out and agreed upon by others in the preceding pots above was as Jesus said of Peter, (translated means piece of a rock) "on this rock I build my church",....... it was not torn down in one instance but will it be built as one instance?....... Malachi seems to have indicated that it would"

Mal 3:1    Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.

Some say the above verse refers to the baptism of the Holy Sprit but the heart of man never became the Temple of the Lord until AFTER one is baptized in the Holy Spirit........ before that it was a only a place for "lucifer man of sin worship".

Blessings

Doug


This conversation could go all over from here . . .not sure which road to take on it.  Your first sentence speaks of the 'first" temple being torn down . . .I agree, A.D. 70 was not when the first temple was torn down . . .I believe it was when the "last" temple was torn down . . .maybe I should rephrase that even.  It's not the temple that is the focus for me . . .it's the system that the temple represented.  For me, Babylon was the first enemy that came in and destroyed the first temple . .which if I'm not mistaken, was Solomon's . .it was built by a 3rd generation (dimension) king.  Solomon's reign was what it was because of the position Solomon was in . . . his reign was the only time all the enemies on all sides were at rest with Israel.  Because it follows the pattern of the third day . .third generation, third dimension, they are all one and the same.

But the reason why 70 A.D. is such a huge issue for me, is because that ended the animal sacrifices . .it ended the old religious system . . .all the other times when the temple was destroyed, they were able to rebuild and even encouraged by God to do so i order for the sacrifices to continue . . .but after Christ came . . . it was just the opposite.  God removed their identity of living out the law through sacrifice and temple worship . .. and Christ replaced the shadow with the substance.  It's been 2,000 years now and they still have not been able to sacrifice their animals . . .mysteriously?  And even now when you go to Jerusalem and strike up a conversation with any believer over there . . . the rebuilding of the temple is their #1 top priority.  All they think about is returning to the animal sacrifices . . . the very thing God removed from them, they're all excited thinking that God is going to let them return to the shadow, even after the source of the shadow has come.

Offline CHB

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #202 on: March 16, 2009, 06:57:10 PM »
Quote from: Nathan
the rebuilding of the temple is their #1 top priority.  All they think about is returning to the animal sacrifices . . . the very thing God removed from them, they're all excited thinking that God is going to let them return to the shadow, even after the source of the shadow has come.

Nathan,

Do you suppose that this will eventually be accomplished, the rebuilding of the temple and sacrificing?  I read that they already have a lot of the utensils ready to put in the temple, such as candlesticks, bowels, and so forth. Also they have the Sanhedrin ready.

What if God allows them to build this temple and then he returns to teach them this isn't the way?

Just some thoughts. What is your opinion on this?

CHB


Offline Nathan

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #203 on: March 16, 2009, 08:21:50 PM »
Quote from: Nathan
the rebuilding of the temple is their #1 top priority.  All they think about is returning to the animal sacrifices . . . the very thing God removed from them, they're all excited thinking that God is going to let them return to the shadow, even after the source of the shadow has come.

Nathan,

Do you suppose that this will eventually be accomplished, the rebuilding of the temple and sacrificing?  I read that they already have a lot of the utensils ready to put in the temple, such as candlesticks, bowels, and so forth. Also they have the Sanhedrin ready.

What if God allows them to build this temple and then he returns to teach them this isn't the way?

Just some thoughts. What is your opinion on this?

CHB



Personally?  I want to make sure everyone reading understands it is not my agenda to pursuade others to believe like I do . . .nor is there a teaching planned to be presented on this . . .but my own personal opinion is . .. I don't believe for a moment that God would allow it to happen.  For to do so would then indicate that the work of the cross was done either for a temporary time ... from the day Christ died, to the day the temple is reestablished . . .or it was done in vain.  The original plan for the sacrifices were soley for the purpose of a temporary atonement until the time was full for the permanent sacrifice to be made.

Jesus did that . . .hands down.

They rejected Jesus . . .but their rejection didn't change the outcome, it just changed the process through which the outcome would manifest.  Had they accepted Christ . . .they would have "willingly" stopped the sacrifices on their own due to understanding Christ died ONCE AND FOR ALL . . . and to continue sacrificing animals, is to ignore the whole purpose of Christ to begin with. 

The fact that they did not willingly stop sacrificing is only the evidence of their rejection.  I'm still kinda curious as to what they did with the veil . . .did they sew it back up???  Did they replace it with a new one?  Either way, they continued on . .trying to live as if Christ was not the living sacrifice.  So . . . they had to face the consequences of their own choices . . . they chose to keep their identity with the Old covenant while the New Covenant was now in affect . . .and there can not be two covenants existing at the same time . . .something had to give . . .enter the hand of God . . .A.D. 70.

Think about this . . .on the mount of transfiguration . . .there was Moses, Elijah and Christ . . .and what was it that Peter immediately wanted to do?  He wanted to pay homage to all three and was rudely interrupted . . . regardless of how much time has passed between then and now . . .God's word never changes right?  The rebuilding of the temple . . .for me . . . is returning back to paying homage to Moses . . . Moses . . .in my last calculations . . .was not the Christ.  So if God didn't allow anyone other than his beloved Son to receive glory then . . .I seriously doubt he's going to let it happen now.  Regardless of how many thousands of people look forward for that thing to be rebuilt . . . I strongly beleive, it's just not going to happen.

Offline CHB

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #204 on: March 16, 2009, 09:05:17 PM »

Personally?  I want to make sure everyone reading understands it is not my agenda to pursuade others to believe like I do . . .nor is there a teaching planned to be presented on this . . .but my own personal opinion is . .. I don't believe for a moment that God would allow it to happen.  For to do so would then indicate that the work of the cross was done either for a temporary time ... from the day Christ died, to the day the temple is reestablished . . .or it was done in vain.  The original plan for the sacrifices were soley for the purpose of a temporary atonement until the time was full for the permanent sacrifice to be made.

Jesus did that . . .hands down.

They rejected Jesus . . .but their rejection didn't change the outcome, it just changed the process through which the outcome would manifest.  Had they accepted Christ . . .they would have "willingly" stopped the sacrifices on their own due to understanding Christ died ONCE AND FOR ALL . . . and to continue sacrificing animals, is to ignore the whole purpose of Christ to begin with. 

The fact that they did not willingly stop sacrificing is only the evidence of their rejection.  I'm still kinda curious as to what they did with the veil . . .did they sew it back up???  Did they replace it with a new one?  Either way, they continued on . .trying to live as if Christ was not the living sacrifice.  So . . . they had to face the consequences of their own choices . . . they chose to keep their identity with the Old covenant while the New Covenant was now in affect . . .and there can not be two covenants existing at the same time . . .something had to give . . .enter the hand of God . . .A.D. 70.

Think about this . . .on the mount of transfiguration . . .there was Moses, Elijah and Christ . . .and what was it that Peter immediately wanted to do?  He wanted to pay homage to all three and was rudely interrupted . . . regardless of how much time has passed between then and now . . .God's word never changes right?  The rebuilding of the temple . . .for me . . . is returning back to paying homage to Moses . . . Moses . . .in my last calculations . . .was not the Christ.  So if God didn't allow anyone other than his beloved Son to receive glory then . . .I seriously doubt he's going to let it happen now.  Regardless of how many thousands of people look forward for that thing to be rebuilt . . . I strongly beleive, it's just not going to happen.

Thanks for responding Nathan.

I agree with what you have said but what if Israel doesn't? For instance, don't most of the Israelites think Jesus was just a prophet? Don't they believe Jesus wasn't resurrected? Also, they are still looking for the messiah aren't they? If they believe what I think they believe then, they might build a temple expecting their messiah to come back. God does allow all of these religions to exist and there are some pretty far out beliefs in the world today. I use to belong to a religion who kept all of the feast days, God has allowed it.

Have you read anything on what I mentioned above?

Am just trying to look at this from Israel's point of view.

CHB

Offline Nathan

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #205 on: March 16, 2009, 10:53:57 PM »
From what I know . . .which isn't in-depth at all . .but from what I gather, the temple they want to build can't be built until the existing one there is removed . . .the dome of the rock?  Their worst enemy currently occupies the very ground they believe is where their temple it to be built . . . so . . . because of their strict laws . . .they'd rather not have a temple at all . . .than have one in the wrong spot. 

"If" they get possession of that spot . .. then I'd look for a war there . . .God isn't going to allow them to build one . . .if they do, he may just step in and do what he did in A.D. 70 all over again.  For me, the difference between the "other" religions and Israel is . . .Israel was/is God's chosen nation.  It's just like if I expected my neighbors kids to obey the same as my own kids . . .the Gentiles aren't expected to follow Jewish law . . . and . . .the other religions have not been "pulled up by the roots" by God either.

As far as I know, I haven't heard of anyone openly stating the same as I . . .but that's why I made sure all who read this understand clearly . .this is just my personal opinion from where I am right now.

Offline Molly

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #206 on: March 16, 2009, 10:56:59 PM »
I kind of wonder, if they are so keen on restarting animal sacrifice, why don't they just build another temple somewhere in the world and do it?  Or build a temple somewhere else in Jerusalem in a place that won't offend a third of the world's population?  

But, then they would have to reinstate the priesthood, and read and follow the Old Testament, which would lead to believing in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and following his commandments-- and seeing that Jesus has fulfilled every one of the Old Testament prophecies, --and then what?

And, then you have to wonder--who is fooling whom?

Offline jabcat

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #207 on: March 17, 2009, 12:22:19 AM »
From what I know . . .which isn't in-depth at all . .but from what I gather, the temple they want to build can't be built until the existing one there is removed . . .the dome of the rock?  Their worst enemy currently occupies the very ground they believe is where their temple it to be built . . . so . . . because of their strict laws . . .they'd rather not have a temple at all . . .than have one in the wrong spot. 

"If" they get possession of that spot . .. then I'd look for a war there . . .God isn't going to allow them to build one . . .if they do, he may just step in and do what he did in A.D. 70 all over again.  For me, the difference between the "other" religions and Israel is . . .Israel was/is God's chosen nation.  It's just like if I expected my neighbors kids to obey the same as my own kids . . .the Gentiles aren't expected to follow Jewish law . . . and . . .the other religions have not been "pulled up by the roots" by God either.

As far as I know, I haven't heard of anyone openly stating the same as I . . .but that's why I made sure all who read this understand clearly . .this is just my personal opinion from where I am right now.

pretty much in agreement there, nate...

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Offline CHB

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #208 on: March 17, 2009, 02:27:35 AM »
Quote from: Nathan
God isn't going to allow them to build one . . .if they do, he may just step in and do what he did in A.D. 70 all over again.  For me, the difference between the "other" religions and Israel is . . .Israel was/is God's chosen nation.  It's just like if I expected my neighbors kids to obey the same as my own kids . . .the Gentiles aren't expected to follow Jewish law . . . and . . .the other religions have not been "pulled up by the roots" by God either.

Nathan,

I was thinking this also.  I have read a book written by Ernest Martin on this temple location and he says the temple wasn't at the Dome of the Rock but about 1/3 mile south of it. He says the temple was situated over the area just above the Gehon Spring. What he says makes a lot of sense but will Israel ever realize this is another question. Besides, God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands. Sure is interesting though.

CHB

Offline Molly

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #209 on: March 17, 2009, 02:36:32 AM »
Quote
Besides, God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands.

And, he says as much to them in their own Bible, but I think they read the Talmud, instead.

Isaiah 66:1
Thus saith the LORD, The heaven is my throne, and the earth is my footstool: where is the house that ye build unto me? and where is the place of my rest?

Offline Nathan

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #210 on: March 17, 2009, 03:13:56 AM »
Quote from: Nathan
God isn't going to allow them to build one . . .if they do, he may just step in and do what he did in A.D. 70 all over again.  For me, the difference between the "other" religions and Israel is . . .Israel was/is God's chosen nation.  It's just like if I expected my neighbors kids to obey the same as my own kids . . .the Gentiles aren't expected to follow Jewish law . . . and . . .the other religions have not been "pulled up by the roots" by God either.

Nathan,

I was thinking this also.  I have read a book written by Ernest Martin on this temple location and he says the temple wasn't at the Dome of the Rock but about 1/3 mile south of it. He says the temple was situated over the area just above the Gehon Spring. What he says makes a lot of sense but will Israel ever realize this is another question. Besides, God doesn't dwell in temples made with hands. Sure is interesting though.

CHB

Yeah, I've heard there's a squabble over the location as well . . . the other location is their own land . . .but I'm not sure where it is . .but I think it's the same as you're saying . . .it's just a small distance away from the dome of the Rock . . .this could very well be God's way of not allowing them to build it in the first place.  I wonder what they'd do if the dome were just handed over to them . . .would they then fight each other over which location it should be built?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #211 on: March 17, 2009, 09:35:16 AM »
Makes me think of a movie. Can't remember the title.
The beast or prophet found ancient books about the location of the temple.
A little digging and they found old foundations. The rebuilding could start. No arguments with the muslims anymore. Start of 3.5 years of peace.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #212 on: March 17, 2009, 05:27:30 PM »
 :cloud9: From what I've seen, even most of the Messianic Jews think the natural temple will be rebuilt. That seems to be something they can't let go of. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

noname

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #213 on: March 18, 2009, 01:06:41 PM »
just realized something...most temple rebuilders talk about it being the 3rd temple...its going to be the 4th actually...1st one by Solomon, 2nd by Nehemiah/Esra, 3rd by Herod the Great...and 4th by the Zionists...

we should note that Sephardim Jews ie Torah believing Jews and real descendants of Judah do NOT want to rebuild the temple as far as I know, heck they even do NOT recognize Israel...they're still awaiting God's promise to be fulfilled of bringing them back on His terms, and not by force as the Zionists (Ashkenazis) are doing
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 04:49:05 PM by noname »

Offline Nathan

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #214 on: March 18, 2009, 04:59:25 PM »
just realized something...most temple rebuilders talk about it being the 3rd temple...its going to be the 4th actually...1st one by Solomon, 2nd by Nehemiah/Esra, 3rd by Herod the Great...and 4th by the Zionists...

we should note that Sephardim Jews ie Torah believing Jews and real descendants of Judah do NOT want to rebuild the temple as far as I know, heck they even do NOT recognize Israel...they're still awaiting God's promise to be fulfilled of bringing them back on His terms, and not by force as the Zionists (Ashkenazis) are doing

See . . .now THAT'S another thing to consider . . .great observation there.  David wanted to build the first temple and God wouldn't let him . .why?  BECAUSE HE WAS A MAN OF WAR . . .but yet these people think that God is going to forcefully remove their enemy . . .and if it's a their own hands . .all better . .but these guys are going to be forcefully removed so they could build the temple again?  If God wouldn't let David do it . . a man after his own heart . . .what makes them think that he'll let "them" forcefully rebuild it?

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #215 on: March 18, 2009, 08:08:15 PM »
 :cloud9: Someone sent me this, and it kinda ties in with this thread in the sense that if they pull it off we will be in a war of unimaginable proportions, no doubt. Cut and paste this into your browser. This is an Arab of unknown nationality giving a lecture on what they are planning to do to us.....it's chilling how easily he discusses killing 350,000 people at one time......

http://www.tangle. com/view_ video.php? viewkey=0861ff3e abea1ceb73e4
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #216 on: March 18, 2009, 09:12:13 PM »
:cloud9: Someone sent me this, and it kinda ties in with this thread in the sense that if they pull it off we will be in a war of unimaginable proportions, no doubt. Cut and paste this into your browser. This is an Arab of unknown nationality giving a lecture on what they are planning to do to us.....it's chilling how easily he discusses killing 350,000 people at one time......

http://www.tangle. com/view_ video.php? viewkey=0861ff3e abea1ceb73e4

It is chilling.  But we should keep in mind that God is ultimately in control.  And that the slain of the Lord in 'THAT DAY' shall be many.  I think the Day of the Lord is upon us.
I think we should not shrink from death.  Jesus did not.  Nor did Martin Luther King.  It just seems to me like a lot of people spend a lot of time concerning themselves with 'how to survive in this world' (myself included).   But I don't think that is a Spirit-led pre-occupation.  We HAVE eternal life.  We HAVE IT NOW.  And also if our mortal body dissolves.

Anne

p.s. I get nothing when I copy and paste that link
« Last Edit: March 18, 2009, 09:16:35 PM by Raggedy Anne »
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Offline Molly

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #217 on: March 18, 2009, 09:37:06 PM »
:cloud9: Someone sent me this, and it kinda ties in with this thread in the sense that if they pull it off we will be in a war of unimaginable proportions, no doubt. Cut and paste this into your browser. This is an Arab of unknown nationality giving a lecture on what they are planning to do to us.....it's chilling how easily he discusses killing 350,000 people at one time......

http://www.tangle. com/view_ video.php? viewkey=0861ff3e abea1ceb73e4

It is chilling.  But we should keep in mind that God is ultimately in control.  And that the slain of the Lord in 'THAT DAY' shall be many.  I think the Day of the Lord is upon us.
I think we should not shrink from death.  Jesus did not.  Nor did Martin Luther King.  It just seems to me like a lot of people spend a lot of time concerning themselves with 'how to survive in this world' (myself included).   But I don't think that is a Spirit-led pre-occupation.  We HAVE eternal life.  We HAVE IT NOW.  And also if our mortal body dissolves.

Anne

p.s. I get nothing when I copy and paste that link
Take the spaces out of it and it will work.  I just started listening, but he doesn't quite have his science straight because that would not kill 350K people in one hour.  He apparently hasn't heard of Cipro.  Other than that, I have to keep listening to see what his point is.

But, this 'Christian' teaching that we are all going to die is what gives me chills.  He came to give us life and give it abundantly, not death.  In the days of those kings, it is their kingdom that will be replaced, not ours/God's [Dan 2].


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #218 on: March 18, 2009, 09:51:23 PM »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Raggedy Anne

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #219 on: March 18, 2009, 10:41:12 PM »
Molly,

Jesus himself told us not to fear what man can do to our mortal body and that the servant is not greater than his master.  And also to follow him (to the cross).  And the entire New Testament is devoted to our awaiting in faith a New Body that is spiritual in the heavens.  I don't want to remain in a mortal body.  And I don't see why you find this strange.
What about all the many things Jesus said about not loving our lives unto death, etc....???

Anne
Ours is not to make up anybody's mind, but to open hearts.
You cannot plough a field by turning it over in your mind.

Offline Molly

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #220 on: March 19, 2009, 01:01:28 AM »
A cleaned up link:
http://www.tangle.com/view_video.php?viewkey=0861ff3eabea1ceb73e4

I see he has no word in his language for "Rednecks" so he calls them "Rednecks." :laughing7:

He says he's praying for them.

Wonder if he's talking about these guys?




http://www.thirdpositionjustice.net/index.html

Livelystone

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #221 on: March 19, 2009, 05:07:33 AM »
just realized something...most temple rebuilders talk about it being the 3rd temple...its going to be the 4th actually...1st one by Solomon, 2nd by Nehemiah/Esra, 3rd by Herod the Great...and 4th by the Zionists...

we should note that Sephardim Jews ie Torah believing Jews and real descendants of Judah do NOT want to rebuild the temple as far as I know, heck they even do NOT recognize Israel...they're still awaiting God's promise to be fulfilled of bringing them back on His terms, and not by force as the Zionists (Ashkenazis) are doing

Things in the Scriptures regarding temples and salvation are completed in threes.......... not that it matters to them but IMO there will never be a fourth temple.

Blessings

Doug

Offline peacemaker

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #222 on: March 19, 2009, 07:31:16 AM »
Things in the Scriptures regarding temples and salvation are completed in threes ... not that it matters to them but IMO there will never be a fourth temple.

"Many do not make the same mistakes twice; they make them four, five, or six times."

You think they would learn, after three times?

peacemaker

Offline Molly

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #223 on: March 19, 2009, 07:56:51 AM »
Things in the Scriptures regarding temples and salvation are completed in threes ... not that it matters to them but IMO there will never be a fourth temple.

"Many do not make the same mistakes twice; they make them four, five, or six times."

You think they would learn, after three times?

peacemaker

Men heap together the mistakes of their lives and create a monster they call destiny.
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Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Doomsday 2012: The End of Days
« Reply #224 on: March 19, 2009, 08:26:02 AM »
"Many do not make the same mistakes twice; they make them four, five, or six times."

You think they would learn, after three times?

peacemaker


Hey!  Quit talking about me!!!