Author Topic: False Israel  (Read 2083 times)

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Offline saintwalee

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Re: False Israel
« Reply #25 on: July 22, 2014, 02:46:00 AM »
Everything regarding Israel is fulfilled in Christ. The reason that the members of the Church are Jews is because Israel is God's firstborn Son. To be in Israel is to be in Christ.

Not quite following that Seth, but it did make me think :scratchhead:

National Israel was "born" out of God's oath to Abraham, so I suppose Israel could be looked at as God's only begotten son (as a nation), as no other nation in the world was "chosen" by God.

But that "birth" was definitely by God's promise to Abraham, as Israel clearly was rebellious from the beginning until the end (70 AD), not deserving in any form or fashion to being righteous before God.

Was Israel "born" to take the wrath of God, instead of the nations of the world at large? Is national Israel the scapegoat?

Like Christ, will national Israel rise up the third day? I think very much so. As Paul states in Romans 11, national Israel will be restored:
Rom 11:12  Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

National Israel is a representation of our personal lives; we are rebellious but God will restore us.

Is today's nation of Israel that promised in scripture? I seriously don't think so. I think that the true restoration happens upon Christ's return. It will be His doing, not man's.

The new Testament definitely speaks of the judgement of the nations; the separating of the sheep and goat nations. Yes, we are Jews inwardly by faith and have the promise of the New Covenant, but as peoples, tongues and nations, they are to be judged and either destroyed or brought into the kingdom age as well. My  :2c:


Online Seth

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Re: False Israel
« Reply #26 on: July 22, 2014, 02:51:06 AM »
Check it out:

Matthew 2:13-15
An angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. "Get up," he said, "take (Jesus) and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him." So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, They stayed there until King Herod died. So the words the Lord had spoken through the prophet came true. He had said, "I chose to bring my son out of Egypt."


Here is the prophecy:

Hosea 11:1-2
The LORD continues,"When Israel was a young nation, I loved them. I chose to bring my son out of Egypt. But the more I called out to Israel, the further they went away from me. They brought sacrifices to the statues of the gods that were named after Baal. And they burned incense to them.


Exodus 4:22-23
Then (Moses) say to Pharaoh, 'This is what the LORD says: Israel is my firstborn son, and I told you, "Let my son go, so he may worship me." But you refused to let him go; so I will kill your firstborn son.'"


To be in Christ is to be in God's firstborn Son, to be in Israel. For a Jew is not one outwardly according to circumcision the flesh, but according to the circumcision of the Spirit.

I have more info about this here: http://mercifultruth.com/links-promisedland.html

Offline saintwalee

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Re: False Israel
« Reply #27 on: July 22, 2014, 03:03:20 AM »
 :gimmefive: I thought you would have some scripture for that!

It could be difficult to see Israel as God's first born son, as to the history of Jacob, being the second born (but loved by God) and being so deceitful his whole life.

Oh the mysteries that are there-in!

Online Seth

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Re: False Israel
« Reply #28 on: July 22, 2014, 04:35:14 AM »
I think that has to do with the shadow vs realization difference. Even in that particular prophecy, you can see its a lamentation by God of how Israel went further away from God. Israel was a nation God was not pleased with very often, but his son he was well pleased with. So Jacob was deceptive but his actions were a shadow of how God would choose his elect, and that it would not be based on nautural heritage, as with Easau. For the last shall be first and the first shall be last.

Offline rosered

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Re: False Israel
« Reply #29 on: July 22, 2014, 04:16:29 PM »
Hi Rosered:

I just wanted to pull a verse out of your post and examine that:

 5And again in the passage above he says, "They shall never enter my rest."


This could be used against the UR thought. There are other scriptures as well that appear that the unrighteous will not receive everlasting life.

So how can this be reconciled?

Rom 9:8  That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.


1Co 15:49  And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1Co 15:50  Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.


So I think "They" means everyone, our sinful fleshly nature.

In summary by Paul:
1Co 15:51  Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
1Co 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
1Co 15:53  For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
1Co 15:54  So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
1Co 15:55  O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?
1Co 15:56  The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.
1Co 15:57  But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.


Amen to that!




Hi saintwaleee  , good  point  and scriptures !!!     and believe its   those that never enter his rest are those still  struggling with the flesh and no flesh pleases  God and NEVER   enter His  rest .

But   those  dwelling on the things above   and  being  led  of  the   Holy Spirit is what receives the things of God   though faith   believing  Gods Word /Son

Online Seth

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Re: False Israel
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2014, 06:22:03 PM »
HI Rose, good post  :thumbsup:

I just want to add that if I remember correctly, the text "they shall never enter my rest" is mistranslated. It should be "they shall not enter my rest." The words "not" and "never" are vastly different. When Jerusalem was overrun for 70 years, the Israelites did not repent...until the 70 years were up.

Offline rosered

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Re: False Israel
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2014, 06:52:42 PM »
HI Rose, good post  :thumbsup:

I just want to add that if I remember correctly, the text "they shall never enter my rest" is mistranslated. It should be "they shall not enter my rest." The words "not" and "never" are vastly different. When Jerusalem was overrun for 70 years, the Israelites did not repent...until the 70 years were up.

  Thanks Seth !  much appreciated  ,  sure  enjoy your posts!!    You are right , its  "not enter "    I was being a little dramatic   I reckin  :banana:  lol     

Offline eaglesway

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Re: False Israel
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2014, 06:53:46 PM »
They shall never enter my rest as long as they is stubborn and wont listen to my Voice  :banana:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline rosered

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Re: False Israel
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2014, 07:33:17 PM »
They shall never enter my rest as long as they is stubborn and wont listen to my Voice  :banana:

  Yes  indeed ,  and those hardened for our benefit in Gods plan  :thumbsup:
 
 romans 11 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, :icon_flower: