Author Topic: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life  (Read 1554 times)

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PaoloNuevo

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Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« on: November 13, 2010, 08:08:54 AM »
14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

You know, even though Revelation doesn't end with the restitution of all, and the "fullness of times" (Eph. 1: 10 ), its actually comforting to know that the wicked are simply Outside the holy city... I guess they'll only take a dip in the Lake of Fire  :grin: ... I think God's punishments are actually set apart from the LOF... and the Brimstone is a mere purification process... perhaps that's why they will experience shame and weeping because of being cast out.

What do you guys think of Rev. 22: 15? Are they physically suffering outside the holy city? I think they are merely shut out, because they don't have their wedding garments yet...


Offline jabcat

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2010, 08:11:14 AM »
I think it's not only a nice thought, but seems to have some merit.  Good find.   :thumbsup:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2010, 08:34:48 AM »
Thanks!

Yup, in Luke 13 the weeping and gnashing of teeth will simply be because the unsaved Jews (and anyone unsaved?) will see people entering the kingdom but they themselves shut out...

But stubborn as the damnationalists are, they will always associate the "weeping" with horrible torture...

But knowing what we know, Greek words like the Theion, Basanizo... the Father won't be doing any Draconian tortures at all.. hopefully punishments only proportionate to what the offender has done.  :HeartThrob:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 08:58:43 AM »
There is a small (sub) thread on this. Just a few posts IIRC. It shows that the people living outside of the city eventually all eat from the Tree.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2010, 09:27:41 AM »
17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let the one who hears say, "Come!" Let the one who is thirsty come; and let the one who wishes take the free gift of the water of life.

It's Christ (through the Spirit) and the church actually inviting those outside??  :bigGrin:  When I was an orthodox believer I've always thought this invitation merely applied to people reading Revelation and wanting to repent NOW... but perhaps verse 17 is actually an invitation or call for those outside to repent? Wow.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2010, 10:52:13 AM »
Those on the inside obviously already tasted the Water of Life. They are the bride. So imo that means the verse is adressing the ones outside of the city.


Quote
When I was an orthodox believer I've always thought this invitation merely applied to people reading Revelation and wanting to repent NOW
That would mean New Jerusalem is already on earth.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline thinktank

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2010, 02:35:10 PM »
14 "Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. 15 Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts, the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood.

You know, even though Revelation doesn't end with the restitution of all, and the "fullness of times" (Eph. 1: 10 ), its actually comforting to know that the wicked are simply Outside the holy city... I guess they'll only take a dip in the Lake of Fire  :grin: ... I think God's punishments are actually set apart from the LOF... and the Brimstone is a mere purification process... perhaps that's why they will experience shame and weeping because of being cast out.

What do you guys think of Rev. 22: 15? Are they physically suffering outside the holy city? I think they are merely shut out, because they don't have their wedding garments yet...

Thats a challenigng scripture, because it says murderes are outside the city, but didn't Jesus before that throw death in the lake of fire, how can one practice magic arts if the devil is in the lake of fire?,

does that mean the devil will still exist in the future, but in a defeated form

I thought sin would come to a complete end at this time of new Jerusalem

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2010, 02:48:51 PM »
ETs explain it as the sinner are outside gates of the city but inside the gates of hell a long way from the city.

Obviously there is a still a lot of sin then. The verse mentioned a whole list.
Many outside the city is the lake...

If all those sins are there the devil doesn't sound very defeated. Yet....
It also seems to show the LoF thing isn't an instant fix.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Aleax

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2010, 03:33:57 PM »

Thats a challenigng scripture, because it says murderes are outside the city, but didn't Jesus before that throw death in the lake of fire, how can one practice magic arts if the devil is in the lake of fire?,


You probably mean "sorcerers" there?

I read that as those who practiced sorcery during the present evil aion, and never repented of it will be in the Lake of Fire doing their sentence. I don't think they're still practicing magic arts outside the city/in the LoF.  :2c:
Behold, I make a few things new.

The Plan of The Ages: God's Unfailing Love Revealed in the Cross

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2010, 03:51:34 PM »
After the LOF and the saved are within the city and the wicked are without the city, the gates of the city remain open. What do scriptures say as to why the gates remain open?  And trees yielding fruit month by month (ongoing) for the healing of the nations.  Certainly no one within the city needs healing anymore month after month.

1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2010, 04:53:01 PM »
Hmm I would say they might be situated simply outside the city AFTER they have been shamed and tested in the LOF...

I don't know where the Hell (no pun intended) satan would be at this point  in Revelation 22  :grin:... but I would assume Jesus wouldn't let them in yet because they might still need evangelization ;) .... they are still the "murderers, sorcerers" that they are but after being put to death in the LOF? Well, they might be about ready for a change...

I've always wondered why John didn't do a prophetic exposition and expound on Paul talking about God becoming all and all and gathering all things in one through Christ and in Christ (Eph. 1: 10, 1 Cor. 15: 28 ) ... but at least the beloved apostle wrote the (analogy) of the chemicals and compositions that God would use in consecrating the wicked. Brimstone is the means. The restitution of all things is the end.  :thumbsup:

« Last Edit: November 13, 2010, 04:56:16 PM by PaoloNuevo »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #11 on: November 13, 2010, 05:17:00 PM »
Hmm I would say they might be situated simply outside the city AFTER they have been shamed and tested in the LOF...
If that's true the cleaning of the brimstone/theion (theios/theos) wasn't very effective.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #12 on: November 13, 2010, 05:40:03 PM »
Interesting! Outside might BE the lake or the brimstone cleaning process!  :bigGrin:

Nonetheless, if they aren't cleaned yet I'm sure the Lord is very near them, as they are merely situated outside... as soon as their chastening has been complete, that's when they'll be allowed to take from the Tree of Life and drink from the water of life


Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #13 on: November 13, 2010, 06:20:17 PM »
Torment: to test (metals) by the touchstone, which is a black siliceous stone used to test the purity of gold or silver by the colour of the streak produced on it by rubbing it with either metal.

Because they are tormented by the Lamb and His angels I assume they are only released when the streak is the right color. In other words metal ore enters LoF. Pure silver/gold leaves it. Refiners fire. Fullars soap. Even noticed how often God is linked to fire?

Sodom and the 4 cities are literally in LoF right now.
http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/word_studies/lake_the_fire_7579.msg97333.html#msg97333
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2010, 01:22:12 AM »
Thanks for the link, WhiteWings

Here's one of the passages Gerry Beauchemin featured in Hope Beyond Hell:

Isaiah 48:10 (New International Version)


10 See, I have refined you, though not as silver;
   I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2010, 11:24:47 PM »
I also find it comforting that there a TWO resurrections! Why resurrect those that are only to perish? or egads, worse.  Note that those notorious words "those not believing will go to the 2nd death" are not heard until -1- all have experienced having been resurrected, and -2- all have lived through and witnessed a very long 'day' of the thorough examination of all things, all human history, etc, as to what went wrong, etc. After all we are a chewin' on that fruit of understanding good from evil (Life from death).
- Now, who's not going to believe after experiencing resurrection,etc?

In answer to the damnationalists (I love that! never heard it before) no one inherits eternal life/puts on immortality without "believing" in Jesus! Also the 1st resurrection does still surpass the 2nd as immortality is put on at the 1st one, but ones in the 2nd are still clothed with imperfection (in their sins as the saying goes), thus the weeping and gnashing of teeth... "weeping endures for a night but joy cometh in the morning"

This life is a narrative, a drama, revealing truth, good from evil, Life from death... God of course, is Life (also Perfection, thus the 'end' result can onLy be the best one possible.. but I begin to wander :offtopic:..) - If it's a drama you must have the vessels "chosen for salvation" (for the 1st resurrection) and those chosen for judgment(2nd resurrection).. gotta have your 'good guys' and your 'bad guys' - albeit we all know "there is none good, no not one, but the Father only". Vessels chosen for the 1st resurrection, by that time and in this life, have done their weeping and gnashing of teeth / judgment.
~ ~ ~
Where does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (the 2nd) during age of Judgment, there's sure to be weeping and wailing & for those habitual despisers of God, gnashing of teeth--who may make their way to LOF
~Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process??
~ ~ ~
The historist elements in the Bk of Rev shed light on the futurist! (Like13:13, same as, 6:12-17, but both  begin/historist & end/futurist r described here so early! a clever lock; & parts of ch12-hist; ch's 10,12,13 = inserts)
~imo we are at 7:1 a pause of 6:12/splitting of atom

PaoloNuevo

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Re: Comforting Thought for those Not written in Book of Life
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2010, 12:45:19 AM »
Thanks for the input, Marie!

You know I think THIS LIFE accepting Jesus could be the first ressurection?? Hence we are beheaded for accepting Christ's testimony for Christ is our head and it is no longer we who live?

I think once we die and suffer in here to glorify God, this might be THE SAME amount of suffering (Isaiah 48: 10 ) that people in the second death will be tormented with... It will be sad, shameful and dying to self but it won't be ghastly.

So if we die to sin, we have died some sort of "first death" so once we die PHYSICALLY, it will be the death of our death to Christ, hence ressurection to life!

THe reverse for sinners is, living in the flesh TODAY... being put to physical death, but then need of a "second death" (death to self life) before partaking in the ressurection.