Author Topic: 144,000?  (Read 4506 times)

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2009, 08:42:11 PM »
No prisons here..."who the Son sets free is free indeed"  :angel4: (what an ugly angel).
That particular angel is for people on Mars since in the book of Acts they gave the implication that some angels might actually look like us, when Peter was delivered of prison and the people at the house that he went to didn't believe it was him knocking at the door.

Offline jabcat

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2009, 05:47:45 AM »
OK, maybe that explains it.  You're right about Peter.

However, you may not know how much that little sucker looks like one of my old bosses.   :mpardon:
Looking unto Jesus, the Author and Finisher of our faith.  Heb. 12:2


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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2009, 03:03:54 AM »
In the description of the sealing of the 144,000 in Revelation 7:4-8, John lists the names of the tribes in an order that was not the order of birth. In the ordering of the names of the tribes there is a hidden psalm for the bride of Christ, which is the Church, that consists of believers of all nations. It could read something like this:

I will praise the LORD, (Judah)
Surely the LORD hath looked upon my affliction, (Reuben)
He has granted me good fortune, (Gad)
Happy am I, (Asher)
With great wrestlings have I wrestled, (Naphtali)
But God will make me forget all my toil, (Manasseh)
The LORD hath heard me, (Simeon)
He has joined Himself to me, (Levi)
He has purchased me, (Issachar)
He will dwell with me always, (Zebulun)
The LORD shall add more children to me, (Joseph)
By the son of His right hand. (Benjamin)

The tribe of Dan is missing. Dan means "judgment." The implication of the omission of his name, I suggest, is that those included in the 144,000 will escape the judgment. This supports their identification with the church.


Offline Cardinal

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2009, 03:35:41 AM »
 :cloud9: Just wondering where you got the meaning for "Reuben".......I've always seen it as, "Behold, a son". Blessings.....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor


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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #29 on: July 09, 2009, 03:58:45 AM »

Quote from: Cardinal

Just wondering where you got the meaning for "Reuben".......I've always seen it as, "Behold, a son". Blessings.....

Genesis 29:32
And Leah conceived, and bare a son, and she called his name Reuben: for she said, Surely the LORD hath looked upon my affliction; now therefore my husband will love me.


Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #30 on: July 09, 2009, 04:05:08 AM »
It sits well with my spirit the 144 is the complete (12x12) government of God.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 04:21:23 AM by Beloved Servant »

Offline Cardinal

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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #31 on: July 09, 2009, 04:10:45 AM »
 :cloud9: Mine, too......
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor


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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #32 on: July 09, 2009, 03:07:07 PM »
Revelation 14:4
These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

Since the 144,000 are described as "the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb" they can be identified with the church, consisting of both Old Testament and New Testament saints, of all nations. This is "the city of the living God," the heavenly Jerusalem, called the bride of the Lamb in Revelation 21:9.

Hebrews 12:22-24
But ye are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel.

James referred to Christians as the "firstfruits of his creatures."

James 1:18
Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

Jesus was "the firstborn from the dead" [Colossians 1:18] and so he is the first of the firstfruits:

1 Corinthians 15:23
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Paul described the Church at Corinth as a "chaste virgin" who is "espoused to one husband" who is Christ. He refers to a spiritual virginity, as the context shows. He was talking about Christians being faithful to the truth, and not being led astray by false teachers.

2 Corinthians 11:2-3
For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Those whose minds become "corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ" are no longer virgins, in the spiritual sense that Paul implies here, which is what John refers to when he says the 144,000 saints are "virgins" in Revelation 14:4.

The 144,000 are the ones who are "sealed" and have the spirit of God. The seal of God teaches us to depart from iniquity:

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

« Last Edit: July 09, 2009, 03:20:07 PM by Doug »


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Re: 144,000?
« Reply #33 on: July 09, 2009, 07:01:59 PM »
The following discussion is about the verses that precede the account of the sealing of the 144,000 in Revelation 7.

Revelation 7:1-3
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

The four winds are thought to be angels, or spirits, who are subject to the angels responsible for sealing God's elect.
James Burton Coffman's Commentary says:

Plummer understood this whole chapter as the logical answer to the closing words of Rev. 6, "Who shall be able to stand?" thus connecting Rev. 7 with the final judgment scene there related.  This is correct and has the effect of applying Rev. 7, not to some specific event of history, but to the whole earthly probation of the saints. "The sealing extends throughout the whole New Testament era."  Here is the prophetic equivalent of Jesus' promise to be with his church "even unto the end of the world" (Matthew 28:20), and of Paul's, "all things work together for good to them that are called according to his purpose" (Romans 8:25). The immense comfort of persecuted saints in such glorious promises is exactly the comfort graphically pictured in these two magnificent visions of Rev. 7.

The earth and the sea are probably symbolic of those who are not among the servants of God who are sealed. This is seen in the following scriptures.

Isaiah 57:20
But the wicked are like the troubled sea, when it cannot rest, whose waters cast up mire and dirt.

Revelation 8:13
And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

Revelation 12:12
Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Those who dwell in heaven, are the saints who are sealed; the woman in heaven, clothed with the sun, in Rev. 12:1 represents the church. The sun with which she is clothed represents the gospel, the "great light" that was preached by Jesus, Matthew 4:13-17.

In Revelation 7:2, the sealing angel comes from the east, or the sunrising, as the sun represents the gospel, and is what clothes the woman in Revelation 12:1.

On the day of Pentecost when the disciples received the holy Spirit, Peter referred to a prophecy of Joel, that said "The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come: And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved."  (Acts 2:20-21)

The sun would be turned to darkness, the prophet Joel said, and this was fulfilled in the early centuries of the Christian era by the introduction into the church of pagan philosophy, including Plato's doctrine of an immortal soul, and the pagan superstition of the unending infernal torment of unbelievers. Theologians merged those false teachings with the teachings of the apostles in the New Testament. These beliefs obscured the light of the gospel, turning the "sun" to darkness, and fulfilling the prophcey of Joel, but the truth has begun to dawn in the minds of some, as Peter said, when he exhorted us to give heed to prophecy:

2 Peter 1:19
We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:

This "day star" Peter refers to is the gospel, the truth of which is like the sun rising in our hearts, like the day dawning, after a long, and very dark night.