Author Topic: What single argument for UR has the most impact?  (Read 2250 times)

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clayton

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What single argument for UR has the most impact?
« on: June 16, 2011, 11:13:49 PM »
Hi everyone,

When it comes to talking to Christians with orthodox views of Hell, what single point or argument has the most impact on them?

A few times now I have brought up Rob Bell's book with acquaintances or people i work with but I don't know what is the best way to open a conversation with someone who has a bad conception of UR in their head before I even get a chance to say one word.

To start things off I will tell you what I am thinking. It seems to me that the best way to get your foot in the door is to say something they already agree with. Like, God is love or God's mercy endures forever or maybe quote a scripture they surely know already like Jesus saying that he would draw all people to himself.  It seems like this would be a great way to break the ice and let Christians know that you are not insane and/or unbiblical.

When they agree that God is love you can can remind them that God never changes. Not much to argue with there.
If they agree that God's mercy endures forever you could ask how that basic belief lines up with ET.
If they remember that Jesus said he would draw all people to himself you might ask them when that drawing might happen when so many people have died without ever even hearing about someone named Jesus.

So what do YOU think? What simple, easily understood statement or question has the biggest impact AND promotes further discussion?





Offline Miriam

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Re: What single argument for UR has the most impact?
« Reply #1 on: June 17, 2011, 07:47:50 PM »
I think it depends a lot on the kind of person you're talking to and what's important to them. My work colleague, who first got me thinking properly about it, is the kind of person who would say, "I don't care what the Bible says, a God of love would never allow eternal torment." For me, I'm a "words" person and take scripture very seriously, so for me the convincing thing was looking at the "all" statements in the Bible and, most particularly, the real meaning and interpretation of the words that have generally been translated as "eternal."

For other people it might be the argument that eternal torment means the devil is stronger than God - as most people end up in hell, although that's not what God wants.

You'll still get called unbiblical if you quote the Bible and people don't agree with your interpretation of it.  :winkgrin:

Offline Aleax

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Re: What single argument for UR has the most impact?
« Reply #2 on: June 17, 2011, 09:21:55 PM »
How about this:

What fruits of the spirit would you associate with the eternal torchery doctrine?

a] Love
b] Joy
c] Peace
d] Patience
e] Kindness
f] Goodness
g] Faithfulness
h] Gentleness
i] Self-control ?
Behold, I make a few things new.

The Plan of The Ages: God's Unfailing Love Revealed in the Cross

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: What single argument for UR has the most impact?
« Reply #3 on: June 18, 2011, 07:17:40 PM »
A doctrine can't/shouldn't be based on one verse but take a look at the 3 verse in my signature. Expecially the 3rd one can be a good start of a conversation.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline shawn

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Re: What single argument for UR has the most impact?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2011, 06:22:21 PM »
There are many terrific verses that support UR.  But, for me Jeremiah 19 speaking about the Gehenna valley, God's feelings about the burning of children (didn't enter his mind) and Jesus own words about Gehenna put it all together for me.

The Gehenna Valley is associated with idolatry, outside the Kingdom.  It was a light bulb moment for me when I realized Jesus was talking about idolators (anyone making something natural more important that God) not able to enter the Kingdom of God (that kingdom within) and the consequences of being outside the Kingdom (anxiety, pain, despair, depression through symbolic imagery).

Offline jabcat

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Re: What single argument for UR has the most impact?
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2011, 06:48:45 PM »
There are many terrific verses that support UR.  But, for me Jeremiah 19 speaking about the Gehenna valley, God's feelings about the burning of children (didn't enter his mind) and Jesus own words about Gehenna put it all together for me.

The Gehenna Valley is associated with idolatry, outside the Kingdom.  It was a light bulb moment for me when I realized Jesus was talking about idolators (anyone making something natural more important that God) not able to enter the Kingdom of God (that kingdom within) and the consequences of being outside the Kingdom (anxiety, pain, despair, depression through symbolic imagery).

 :thumbsup:  Amen.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline eaglesway

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Re: What single argument for UR has the most impact?
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2011, 09:46:05 PM »
Because most of the Christian people with whom I have shared UR are "believers" who are of Charismatic, pentecostal, fundamentalist persuasions, and respect the scriptures on some level, I have found that the Word is the way to go. Eph 1:9-11; Col. 1:16-21; 1 Cor 15:23-28; Eph 2:7; Romans 8:16-22; Romans 11:32-36; Phil 2:10; Acts 3:19; Rev 5:13 and Rev 21:5

If they think the Bible is believable,much less infallible, these verses present a fact that is hard to get away from- the reconciliation/restoration of all things. After that I go into the translation issues with "forever"- olam/aion/aionios  and "hell"-Sheol/Gehenna I take a more philosophical approach when sharing UR with non Christians.
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awakeningaletheia

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Re: What single argument for UR has the most impact?
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2011, 11:20:29 PM »
First pray for them (whether quietly to God or with them personally) that God would enlighten the eyes of their heart, pray that they may hear and see by the power of the Spirit. Then the way is more open, though I will not guarantee they will accept everything you say, for darkness does not like light. Then follow our Lord Jesus's way of explaining things, ask a question. A very simple one like, "Does God's anger last forever, but his love for a moment?" or "How would you feel if you had to watch your (insert family member) be tortured endlessly? or "Did Jesus fail in his role as Savior?"

Simply ask questions, then hit them with bible verses.