Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Bible Verses Used to Assert Not All Will be Saved

What single argument for UR has the most impact?

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clayton:
Hi everyone,

When it comes to talking to Christians with orthodox views of Hell, what single point or argument has the most impact on them?

A few times now I have brought up Rob Bell's book with acquaintances or people i work with but I don't know what is the best way to open a conversation with someone who has a bad conception of UR in their head before I even get a chance to say one word.

To start things off I will tell you what I am thinking. It seems to me that the best way to get your foot in the door is to say something they already agree with. Like, God is love or God's mercy endures forever or maybe quote a scripture they surely know already like Jesus saying that he would draw all people to himself.  It seems like this would be a great way to break the ice and let Christians know that you are not insane and/or unbiblical.

When they agree that God is love you can can remind them that God never changes. Not much to argue with there.
If they agree that God's mercy endures forever you could ask how that basic belief lines up with ET.
If they remember that Jesus said he would draw all people to himself you might ask them when that drawing might happen when so many people have died without ever even hearing about someone named Jesus.

So what do YOU think? What simple, easily understood statement or question has the biggest impact AND promotes further discussion?




Miriam:
I think it depends a lot on the kind of person you're talking to and what's important to them. My work colleague, who first got me thinking properly about it, is the kind of person who would say, "I don't care what the Bible says, a God of love would never allow eternal torment." For me, I'm a "words" person and take scripture very seriously, so for me the convincing thing was looking at the "all" statements in the Bible and, most particularly, the real meaning and interpretation of the words that have generally been translated as "eternal."

For other people it might be the argument that eternal torment means the devil is stronger than God - as most people end up in hell, although that's not what God wants.

You'll still get called unbiblical if you quote the Bible and people don't agree with your interpretation of it.  :winkgrin:

Aleax:
How about this:

What fruits of the spirit would you associate with the eternal torchery doctrine?

a] Love
b] Joy
c] Peace
d] Patience
e] Kindness
f] Goodness
g] Faithfulness
h] Gentleness
i] Self-control ?

WhiteWings:
A doctrine can't/shouldn't be based on one verse but take a look at the 3 verse in my signature. Expecially the 3rd one can be a good start of a conversation.

shawn:
There are many terrific verses that support UR.  But, for me Jeremiah 19 speaking about the Gehenna valley, God's feelings about the burning of children (didn't enter his mind) and Jesus own words about Gehenna put it all together for me.

The Gehenna Valley is associated with idolatry, outside the Kingdom.  It was a light bulb moment for me when I realized Jesus was talking about idolators (anyone making something natural more important that God) not able to enter the Kingdom of God (that kingdom within) and the consequences of being outside the Kingdom (anxiety, pain, despair, depression through symbolic imagery).

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