Revelation 22:18,19 Taken Out of the Book of Life

[WhiteWings]

Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

That would be on or just before Gen 1:1

[jabcat]

Jabcat

To all, for further exploration/insight, revelation.  Something hit me a few minutes ago that I believe is a crucial piece of this.  We've talked about names being written in the Book before the foundation of the world.    Get this;  when was Jesus the Lamb slain?   

I have to run, but will read tomorrow, I'm curious when do you think the Lamb was slain?

There's clear scripture that says, but I'm going to hold back while others think it over and respond.  There may be some new connected insights.

[jabcat]

haha Tony, you posted before mine.   

[jabcat]

so if the Book was written before, and the Lamb was slain before...  could that change the assumption that the Book is just a roll of everyone born?  doesn't there seem more of a tie than that?  maybe?  also, is there only 1 book, more than 1 book?   I may be wrong, but both being 'before' seems much more than coincidence to me.

[Molly]

There are different groups being spoken of in the Bible.
Are they all the same people?  Maybe this is where the confusion lies.

To list some of the groups:

The elect
The sons
The bride
The guests
The friends of the groom

The saved

Jesus tells different parables to describe these different groups
Paul fills in some more of the details because Jesus himself does not go into much detail past the end of this age.

This parable describes the bride:

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

 2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

 5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

--Mat 25



Here John the Baptist calls himself the friend of the groom:

29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

 30He must increase, but I must decrease.

--John 3


Look here what the apostle Paul says of his role:


 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

--2 Cor 11


And Abraham:

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

[WhiteWings]

BookS are opened. But there is only one BoL mentioned.

And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books.

"had done" = works = bookS
The use of BoL is not mentioned in this verse. BoL is just opened.

I think it also clearly shows the BoL concept is not as black and white as some believe.
In the book -> heaven
Not in the book -> hell

Somehow the other books are needed too. Why not just one other book?
If we continue reading we see people cast into LoF so it could be argued that's the classic hell. (which I don't believe)

BoL is very closely related to Jesus. Water also.
If we keep reading a few verses we see New Jerusalem. All things made new. Etc
Then Rev 21:6
He said to me: "It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End. To him who is thirsty I will give to drink without cost from the spring of the water of life.

Believers already drank from the water. The believe in Father, Son and all sort of Biblical teachings. They are immortal. So imo they are not thirsty. Only the sinners outside teh gate are thirsty.


Rev 21:27
Nothing impure will ever enter it, nor will anyone who does what is shameful or deceitful, but only those whose names are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Only perfection in New Jerusalem. Is sickness perfection?

Rev 22:2
down the middle of the great street of the city. On each side of the river stood the tree of life, bearing twelve crops of fruit, yielding its fruit every month. And the leaves of the tree are for the healing of the nations.

This verse is long after BoL. All the bad element of society are in LoF. Only those in BoL are allowed in New Jerusalem.
In New Jerusalem perfection rules. No more pain, tears, and sickness.
Then what is the use of that tree with healing powers? All BoL people are perfected. They are never ill anymore.
So those leaves (and the water) are not for BoL people....
Healing of bad people is still in progress after many are cast in LoF.
So for me the nations that need healing are crawling out of LoF.
They eat from the tree. One can only eat from the tree if one is inside the city. And one can only be inside if he/she is in BoL. Rev 21:27
So names can be added.
 

[Molly]

Revelation 13:8 "And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world."

That would be on or just before Gen 1:1

The lamb is slain from the foundation of the world [casting down of the kosmos]

But the elect are chosen in Christ before the world [aion] began.




2 Timothy 1:9
Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

Titus 1:2
In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;


From the foundation of the world=apo katabole kosmos

Before the world began= pro chronos aionios

[WhiteWings]

Before the world began= pro chronos aionios

Before enternity began? 

[Molly]

Before the world began= pro chronos aionios

Before enternity began? 

It's a long story.

[Molly]

1Paul, a servant [doulos/bondsman] of God, and an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect [eklektos], and the acknowledging of the truth which is after godliness;

 2In hope of eternal [aionios] life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before [pro] the world began [aionios chronos];

 3But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour;

--Titus 1


"elect"

G1588
ἐκλεκτός
eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.

[Molly]

The ghost of Calvin:


Matthew 22:14
For many are called [klētos] , but few are chosen [eklektos].

"called"
G2822
κλητός
klētos
klay-tos'
From the same as G2821; invited, that is, appointed, or (specifically) a saint: - called.


"chosen"

G1588
ἐκλεκτός
eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.

[Molly]

 Jesus told them more stories. He said, 2 "Here is what the kingdom of heaven is like. A king prepared a wedding dinner for his son. 3 He sent his servants [doulos] to those who had been invited to the dinner. The servants told them to come. But they refused.

 4 "Then he sent some more servants. He said, 'Tell those who were invited that I have prepared my dinner. I have killed my oxen and my fattest cattle. Everything is ready. Come to the wedding dinner.'

 5 "But the people paid no attention. One went away to his field. Another went away to his business. 6 The rest grabbed his servants. They treated them badly and then killed them.

 7 "The king became very angry. He sent his army to destroy them. They killed those murderers and burned their city.

 8 "Then the king said to his servants, 'The wedding dinner is ready. But those I invited were not fit to come. 9 Go to the street corners. Invite to the dinner anyone you can find.' 10 So the servants went out into the streets. They gathered all the people they could find, both good and bad. Soon the wedding hall was filled with guests.

 11 "The king came in to see the guests. He noticed a man there who was not wearing wedding clothes. 12 'Friend,' he asked, 'how did you get in here without wedding clothes?' The man couldn't think of anything to say.

 13 "Then the king told his servants, 'Tie up his hands and feet. Throw him outside into the darkness. Out there people will sob and grind their teeth.'

Matthew 22:14
For many are called [klētos] , but few are chosen [eklektos].

[WhiteWings]

Just some random questions

- Who's the bride of Jesus?
- Is the bride in BoL?
- Who are the guests? -> Note that the wedding guests always arrive after the week bride and groom spend in the bridal chamber.

[Molly]

The bride:

31For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
 32This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.





--Eph 5

"church"

G1577
ἐκκλησία
ekklēsia
ek-klay-see'-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): - assembly, church.




2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

--2 Cor 11



But we see in the story of the ten virgins that when the groom comes for his bride only five have the oil.  The other five are shut out of the marriage room.

10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
--Mat 25


Look what he says to them:

12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.


--Mat 25



This sounds similar to the wedding guest who comes to the dinner without wedding clothes.


PS I was taught the wedding dinner happens after the groom comes for his bride. He takes his bride to the home he has prepared, and the guests have the wedding dinner while the groom is in the marital chamber with his bride consummating the marriage--the guests are outside making merry to celebrate the wedding.

[WhiteWings]

PS I was taught the wedding dinner happens after the groom comes for his bride. He takes his bride to the home he has prepared, and the guests have the wedding dinner while the groom is in the marital chamber with his bride consummating the marriage--the guests are outside making merry to celebrate the wedding.

Nope. The guests arrive 7 days after the bride was 'stolen'
They are in the chamber for 7 whole days. Not 7 minutes
I'll just start my old rambling. The NT is a wedding book. Especially the what often is called the rapture. (just using that term for clarification not promoting it)
When a man (Jesus) wants to mary a girl (believers) he goes to her father (Father God)
They start discussing the bridal price. (His life)
To seal the deal the couple drinks a glass of wine. (Last Supper?)
The couple is now engaged. (Jesus + believers)
The man (Jesus) goes away and starts preparing the bridal chamber is his fathers house (my Fathers house has many mansions)
The father'of the bride has to approve the chamber that's why the groom doesn't know the hour.
Usually that period is 1-2 year.
After the father approves the groom(Jesus) gathers some friends (angels)
They go as a thief in the night to the bride's house to "steal" her away.
However the groom waits at a certain distance of her house.
They blow on a ramshorn (Rev. trumpets) and the friend (angels) grab the bride and carry her to the groom. (feet don't tought the ground?)
That's usually called rapture/stealing the bride away.
The bride and groom are in their chamber for 7 days (7 years of Rev)
Then after those 7 days the guests arrive.

It doesn't fit exactly but....

I don't know how it's called in English but if a couple marriage they get a little 'bridal book' that 'proves' they are married.
BoL is that wedding book 

[WhiteWings]

Hmmzz, this site tells a diffrent story: http://www.reocities.com/Area51/quark/8784/bride.html

http://ldolphin.org/wedding.html

No party for the bride: http://www.allaboutgod.net/group/thebrideofchrist/forum/topics/1383940:Topic:175955

During the seven days of the wedding festivities, which were sometimes called "the seven days of the huppah," the bride remained hidden in the bridal chamber

http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/marriage.htm

Seems to be some holes in my story 

[Molly]

BoL is that wedding book 

That's interesting.  Here we register with the state and get a marriage license before the wedding takes place.  Is that like the register where he is writing the names of those born in Zion? [psa 87]

I'm thinking the called out [ekklesia] could at any time be chosen to be the bride.  That is, the bride is chosen from that group. [The invitation went first to the Jews but they rejected it].  When the groom comes for his bride, some will have oil, some won't.  Some will be wearing wedding clothes, some won't.  That is why he says, be prepared because no one knows the time and hour.  I think the time and the hour is specific to each Christian--although I know some believe it will happen to all at once and call it the 'rapture'.

Like you said, the wedding actually takes place a year or two before the consummation, and it happens privately between the bride and the groom in a ceremony where bread and wine are shared [communion].  After that, it is very hard for either one to break off the agreement because they are now [legally] married.

So is the consummated marriage the first resurrection [which I believe will include glorified bodies]?  Or does it happen before that in the life of each believer, [when we are given an earnest of our inheritence], and the first resurrection includes only those who are the consummated bride--who now become the manifested sons of God?

[thinktank]

There are different groups being spoken of in the Bible.
Are they all the same people?  Maybe this is where the confusion lies.

To list some of the groups:

The elect
The sons
The bride
The guests
The friends of the groom

The saved

Jesus tells different parables to describe these different groups
Paul fills in some more of the details because Jesus himself does not go into much detail past the end of this age.

This parable describes the bride:

1Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

 2And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

 3They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

 4But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

 5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

 6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

 7Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

 8And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

 9But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

 10And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

 11Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

 12But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

 13Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

--Mat 25



Here John the Baptist calls himself the friend of the groom:

29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

 30He must increase, but I must decrease.

--John 3


Look here what the apostle Paul says of his role:


 2For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ.

--2 Cor 11


And Abraham:

James 2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.

Perhaps because John the baptis and Abraham are the old testament saints. Jesus regard John the baptist an old testament saint (Elijah  ) He says no one is born greater under woman than John the baptist, but he that is least in the kingdom ( Heaven, or earth?) is greater than he. If Jesus is refering to kingdom life on earth then my theory makes sense, that the old test saints are called friends of God, but new test saints are called bride or wife.

If Jesus is refering to kingdom life in heaven, then my theory does not fit so well, since Abraham was dead in he may have been in heaven, therfore he would be greater than John the baptist, because he would be in the kingdom of heaven.

[Nathan]

Just a thought . . .something I've not really given much thought to before now but, could the friends of the groom be those who've already left this life, this realm and are now living with the Father and the bride be those who are yet living in this world?  Paul talks about if he's not in this body, he's with the Lord.  That sounds like a friend of the groom.

On another level . . .who's to say we aren't both?  Can we not be a Father and a brother, and an Uncle, a husband, a neighbor, a grandfather .  . .all at the same time?  "Perhaps, but you can't be all those tings to the same person."  True, but I "can" be a husband to my wife and a Father to her children at the same time.  I can be her husband and her best friend at the same time.  She can be my bride and my best friend as well . . .could we just be getting hung up on linguistics?

[thinktank]

John the baptis called God his friend when he was on the earth though.

29He that hath the bride is the bridegroom: but the friend of the bridegroom, which standeth and heareth him, rejoiceth greatly because of the bridegroom's voice: this my joy therefore is fulfilled.

 30He must increase, but I must decrease.

--John 3


Also Abraham was his friend on the earth and he was not in heaven when he said this.



I can be her husband and her best friend at the same time.  She can be my bride and my best friend as well . . .could we just be getting hung up on linguistics?

Possibly, Jesus sometimes said whosever does my will is my mother, brother etc maybe this is what John the baptist is talking about

[WhiteWings]

. . .could we just be getting hung up on linguistics?

We should try to avoid that. But I think teh truth is close to the Jewish wedding ceremony.
Jesus is male. His bride is female. So the only possible marriage partners are called female/she in the Bible.

A groom has friends. Obviously the grome doesn't marry the friends but they are invited at the wedding feast.
So if we apply that little bit of knowledge to saved and not saved it's clear there is more than black and white.
The bride is dearly loved and ofcourse saved. But like in a earthly wedding the couple (2 persons) are outnumbered by the bridemaids and friends of the groom. Not to mention all kind of relatives, friend and collegues.
So for me that means most that are not the bride are not in LoF.

[WhiteWings]

Another little thing I think is of importance but am totally unable to apply...
The bride is veiled all the time. Nobody really knows who she is. But after the seven days are over she removes the veil in front of all guests and they finally see the bride.

Removing a veil = unveiling = Revelation 

[Molly]

Another little thing I think is of importance but am totally unable to apply...
The bride is veiled all the time. Nobody really knows who she is. But after the seven days are over she removes the veil in front of all guests and they finally see the bride.

Removing a veil = unveiling = Revelation 

Yes!


1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.



1 John 3:2
Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.


The two shall become one flesh equals manifested sons of God?

[Molly]

What are the wedding clothes to be worn to the wedding feast?


…as God's chosen people [the elect of God], holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves[enduo] with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity.
 --Col 3:12-14


53For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality.


"put on"

G1746
ἐνδύω
enduō
en-doo'-o
From G1722 and G1416 (in the sense of sinking into a garment); to invest with clothing (literally or figuratively): - array, clothe (with), endue, have (put) on.

--1 Cor 15

[Molly]

The bride/elect/sons of God

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

...as also I am known.



Corinthians 8:3 

 3but if anyone loves God, he is known by Him.




Psalm 37:18

    18The LORD knows the days of the blameless,
         And their inheritance will be forever.



Nahum 1:7

    7The LORD is good,
         A stronghold in the day of trouble,
         And He knows those who take refuge in Him.



John 10:14

 14"I am the good shepherd, and I know My own and My own know Me,


2 Timothy 2:19

 19Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, "The Lord knows those who are His," and, "Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness."



Psalm 1:6

    6For the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
         But the way of the wicked will perish.



Jeremiah 1:5

    5"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you,
         And before you were born I consecrated you;
         I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."



Romans 8:29

 29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;