Author Topic: Same Word for Both Groups?  (Read 2565 times)

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Offline micah7:9

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Re: Same Word for Both Groups?
« Reply #25 on: March 19, 2014, 04:43:21 PM »
Yes, eternal=age G166 G164 aion
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Seth

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Re: Same Word for Both Groups?
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2014, 05:28:30 PM »
hello :hiya: ...."aionian life and aionian life" it's an age.. imo, described by these verses

I agree. In fact, I think the best translation (especially considering the meaning of "olam" from which the NT authors were informed) is the "life of the age."

Jabcat's question I think is based on the idea that people have a problem with non-eternal judgment if it means non-eternal life. So my point is that both the Life and and judgment deal with the age, now and to come, but immortality is what causes us to live forever with God.

Offline marie glen

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Re: Same Word for Both Groups?
« Reply #27 on: March 20, 2014, 04:31:39 PM »

P.S. -- Matthew 12:32 (NKJV) -"Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come."

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"..unless you repent (pharisees) you will die in your sins"

"and the rest of the dead rose not until after the thousand years.." .."there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.." .."outer darkness.." Outside the kingdom, aka, Jesus... outer darkness, weeping and gnashing of teeth.. during when? obviously it's after the 2nd resurrection because the pharisees will be there.. and obviously it's before all things are made new..

at the end of judgment day of the 2nd resurrected, DOA, those (still?) not believing will go to the 2nd death, the LOF..

 :cloud9: if we did not choose, but were chosen and all done by God "born again by the will of God, not man" why would more extreeme measures be needed to bring the rest to repentance, than we who were chosen to come to Jesus during this life?

If the ancient Spring Holy Days fulfilled, thus prophesied Jesus' first advent, why not the Fall Holy Days prophecy the long second advent? (and three peaks of?) [Trumpets, Day Of Atonement, & Tabernacles "God will now tabernacle with man" rev 21:5]

trumpets, 10 days later was day of atonement, and then 5 days later was tabernacles - if the 10 days represents the 1000 yrs, then what the 5 days?? [hello? why can't anyone see this? "no one at first desires new wine, but the old"/the familiar? seems logical and evident to me - Spring Holy Days fulfilled by 1st advent; Fall Holy Days thus??]
             :hiya:
- Does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (2nd Resurrection) during age of Judgment? sure to be weeping and wailing?
- Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process?
- "Behold I make aLL things new" Rev21:5
- "On every high mountain and hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day ..when the towers fall." Is 30:25
- "A new heavens and a new earth" Rev 21:1
- "The lion will eat straw like the ox.. the bear will graze with the cow" Is 11:7
- "They will sit each under his vine, and under his fig-tree, with none troubling.." Micah 4:4

Offline marie glen

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Re: Same Word for Both Groups?
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2014, 04:34:30 PM »
hello :hiya: ...."aionian life and aionian life" it's an age.. imo, described by these verses

I agree. In fact, I think the best translation (especially considering the meaning of "olam" from which the NT authors were informed) is the "life of the age."

Jabcat's question I think is based on the idea that people have a problem with non-eternal judgment if it means non-eternal life. So my point is that both the Life and and judgment deal with the age, now and to come, but immortality is what causes us to live forever with God.


Absolutely!!  :iagree: :iagree: if mankind possesses inherent "immortality" why would we "put on immortality" (be clothed with "immortality") at the (1st) resurrection?? :laughing7:

...and, it was not God/Yahweh/the Father, who said "surely... you won't...die" (to Eve) what God said was "from dust thou art and to dust shalt thou return"

He descended to the lower part of the earth" the dust of the grave.. "was in the heart of the earth" the grave

angels who left their 1st position in chains of darkness now locked into judgment, because imperfect cannot reverse its course and become again, or make itself perfect.

Jesus via the Spirit preached to those who were long time awaiting while the ark was being prepared.. preached to them via the Spirit while the ark was being prepared!

better to cast an eye or an arm which causes you to commit a crime, into gehenna the city dump where bodies of criminals were thrown and sulphur cast upon them to burn up, consume/quench - than your whole body
« Last Edit: March 20, 2014, 04:46:38 PM by marie glen »
- Does it say no repentance after death? being resurrected still in their sins (2nd Resurrection) during age of Judgment? sure to be weeping and wailing?
- Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process?
- "Behold I make aLL things new" Rev21:5
- "On every high mountain and hill, rivers and streams of waters in the day ..when the towers fall." Is 30:25
- "A new heavens and a new earth" Rev 21:1
- "The lion will eat straw like the ox.. the bear will graze with the cow" Is 11:7
- "They will sit each under his vine, and under his fig-tree, with none troubling.." Micah 4:4

Offline Seth

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Re: Same Word for Both Groups?
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2014, 07:50:14 PM »

at the end of judgment day of the 2nd resurrected, DOA, those (still?) not believing will go to the 2nd death, the LOF..

I do believe that the LOF speaks of something that exists even today, which is why Jesus said the the Pharisees "How will you escape the judgment of Gehenna?" I actually think that they were already in that judgment and did not realize it. It's sort of how Christ says to the church of Laodicea, "Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked"

I believe that in the Day of the Lord, the Gehenna judgment that they are already in, will bring them to their knees like the Prodigal Son, who left his place with his Father and was brought to repentance. I believe the purpose of that experience was to bring him to the end of himself.


Quote
:cloud9: if we did not choose, but were chosen and all done by God "born again by the will of God, not man" why would more extreeme measures be needed to bring the rest to repentance, than we who were chosen to come to Jesus during this life?

I don't really see it as an extreme measure. I think it appears that way through the language because fire is one of those things that our primal brain is trained to be afraid of. To me it looks extreme, but it speaks to a spiritual condition that everyone must come out of. The overcomer escaped Gehenna when they began to walk according to the Spirit rather than the flesh. They came out of the LOF into New Jerusalem to drink the water.

I see this as like a leavening which will leaven the whole lump. Everyone who enters New Jerusalem does so through repentance. They die to their old man to live for God. I see this happening with the whole of creation. I don't see "For every knee shall bow and every tongue confess" as a forced act, but rather one which comes through a Prodigal Son realization, and repentance and an honest desire for God (which is why the LOF is associated with thirst).

I don't believe this is so much that God NEEDS to work this way, but that he chooses to do it :Let us MAKE man in our image" That's a process.

So, regarding the fulfillment of the prophecies, I see them like a seed growing into a tree. Christ is the FIRSTFRUIT, but then he fulfills through the New Jerusalem, and then the whole world. I don't see a one-time past fulfillment, but the kingdom as a leaven which is worked through three measures until it leavens the whole lump.


Offline UniversalSceptic

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Re: Same Word for Both Groups?
« Reply #30 on: April 02, 2014, 10:53:59 PM »
I love this forum. Everyone has such a great head on their shoulders.

Offline Cardinal

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Re: Same Word for Both Groups?
« Reply #31 on: April 03, 2014, 01:07:44 AM »
 :cloud9: Hi CHB, good to see you.

@Ronen.....where do you find the Hebrew pictographs you refer to?

The best way I can describe how God "speaks" to me most of the time, is thru pictures given with instantaneous understanding. I never thought about it before in the context of being sort of a "language". I'm thinking now they created the forms to convey what they received from Him in the same "way".

I know" forms" would be a heck of lot easier than words are to try to "translate" exactly what was "said", sometimes, if only I could condense what He said into one, lol.....just me thinking out loud here.

What I like about the "horizon" part here is because He once spoke something similar to that to me to explain to me what exactly was happening to me in the Spirit at that moment. The term meant, "the place where the earth meets the sky, the horizon". It was referring to the "place" where my spirit "touched" my soul and earthen vessel, sort of "point to point".

A comparison could be made for the "point" at which the spirit returns into full occupation of a  body, ie. a resurrection. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor