Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it

[WhiteWings]

Was Jesus in paradise that very day?

Depends if want to follow doctrine or Scripture.
Doctrine: He went to paradise that very day.
Scripture: Just states the thief would go to paradise. Could be that day. Could be 1000 years later.

John 3 [ACV]
13 And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven.

This was written long after crucifixion. And still it claims no man, except Jesus, went to heaven.
No man includes the thief.

Also note the preceding verse:
Luke 23 [ACV]
42 And he said to Jesus, Remember me, Lord, when thou come into thy kingdom.

Did Jesus' kingdom start that day?

The thief was hanging on the cross and was scared of not going to paradise. So he asked Jesus (remember me). Jesus basicly just said: Don't wory you will be with me in paradise.

[Taffy]

John 3 [ACV]
13 And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven.

All those who are Him ascend and descend, its say NO MAN, Man is often a Metaphor one who is of the carnal MIND#For those born of Him ascended with HIM in Life[ Heavens=HISMIND] as HE FIRST descended into our Joining us In our Death,

Psa 139:8   If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there]. 

[Molly]

John 3 [ACV]
13 And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven.

All those who are Him ascend and descend, its say NO MAN, Man is often a Metaphor one who is of the carnal MIND#For those born of Him ascended with HIM in Life[ Heavens=HISMIND] as HE FIRST descended into our Joining us In our Death,

Psa 139:8   If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].

Taffy 

We are born from above.

[Molly]

WE ARE CITIZENS OF ZION, born from above, our citrizenship registered by the Lord himself.  This is why David was not allowed to take the census.



 1 His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2 The LORD loves the gates of Zion
More than all the other dwelling places of Jacob.
3 Glorious things are spoken of you,
O city of God.
                         Selah.

4 "I shall mention Rahab and Babylon among those who know Me;
Behold, Philistia and Tyre with [d]Ethiopia:
'This one was born there.'"

5 But of Zion it shall be said, "This one and that one were born in her";
And the Most High Himself will establish her.
6 The LORD will count when He registers the peoples,
"This one was born there."
                         Selah.

7 Then those who sing as well as those who play the flutes shall say,
"All my springs of joy are in you."

[Taffy]

WE ARE CITIZENS OF ZION, born from above, our citrizenship registered by the Lord himself.  This is why David was not allowed to take the census.



 1 His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2 The LORD loves the gates of Zion
More than all the other dwelling places of Jacob.
3 Glorious things are spoken of you,
O city of God.
                         Selah.

4 "I shall mention Rahab and Babylon among those who know Me;
Behold, Philistia and Tyre with [d]Ethiopia:
'This one was born there.'"

5 But of Zion it shall be said, "This one and that one were born in her";
And the Most High Himself will establish her.
6 The LORD will count when He registers the peoples,
"This one was born there."
                         Selah.

7 Then those who sing as well as those who play the flutes shall say,
"All my springs of joy are in you."

Awake from thy SLUMBER  , Rise from your BED  You Children of ZION~

Isa 52:1  Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. 


 Isa 52:2   Shake thyself from the dust; arise, [and] sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

[sheila]

 yeah, 'tell NO man' and 'flesh and blood did not reveal this to you"=unlawful to utter;  the creature that was subjected to vanity...is the creature that is set free into

  the glorious freedom of the sons of God...that creature[new man in Christ] was with Him from the beginning...in the Lamb slain before the foundation

  of the world was laid. He descended from heaven and ascends /returns to the Father.

   

[Molly]

WE ARE CITIZENS OF ZION, born from above, our citrizenship registered by the Lord himself.  This is why David was not allowed to take the census.



 1 His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2 The LORD loves the gates of Zion
More than all the other dwelling places of Jacob.
3 Glorious things are spoken of you,
O city of God.
                         Selah.

4 "I shall mention Rahab and Babylon among those who know Me;
Behold, Philistia and Tyre with [d]Ethiopia:
'This one was born there.'"

5 But of Zion it shall be said, "This one and that one were born in her";
And the Most High Himself will establish her.
6 The LORD will count when He registers the peoples,
"This one was born there."
                         Selah.

7 Then those who sing as well as those who play the flutes shall say,
"All my springs of joy are in you."

Awake from thy SLUMBER  , Rise from your BED  You Children of ZION~

Isa 52:1  Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. 


 Isa 52:2   Shake thyself from the dust; arise, [and] sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.   

[Taffy]

WE ARE CITIZENS OF ZION, born from above, our citrizenship registered by the Lord himself.  This is why David was not allowed to take the census.



 1 His foundation is in the holy mountains.
2 The LORD loves the gates of Zion
More than all the other dwelling places of Jacob.
3 Glorious things are spoken of you,
O city of God.
                         Selah.

4 "I shall mention Rahab and Babylon among those who know Me;
Behold, Philistia and Tyre with [d]Ethiopia:
'This one was born there.'"

5 But of Zion it shall be said, "This one and that one were born in her";
And the Most High Himself will establish her.
6 The LORD will count when He registers the peoples,
"This one was born there."
                         Selah.

7 Then those who sing as well as those who play the flutes shall say,
"All my springs of joy are in you."

Awake from thy SLUMBER  , Rise from your BED  You Children of ZION~

Isa 52:1  Awake, awake; put on thy strength, O Zion; put on thy beautiful garments, O Jerusalem, the holy city: for henceforth there shall no more come into thee the uncircumcised and the unclean. 


 Isa 52:2   Shake thyself from the dust; arise, [and] sit down, O Jerusalem: loose thyself from the bands of thy neck, O captive daughter of Zion.

25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.   

Sing Molly~

[Taffy]

yeah, 'tell NO man' and 'flesh and blood did not reveal this to you"=unlawful to utter;  the creature that was subjected to vanity...is the creature that is set free into

  the glorious freedom of the sons of God...that creature[new man in Christ] was with Him from the beginning...in the Lamb slain before the foundation

  of the world was laid. He descended from heaven and ascends /returns to the Father.

   

[WhiteWings]

John 3 [ACV]
13 And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven.

All those who are Him ascend and descend, its say NO MAN, Man is often a Metaphor one who is of the carnal MIND#For those born of Him ascended with HIM in Life[ Heavens=HISMIND] as HE FIRST descended into our Joining us In our Death,

Psa 139:8   If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].

Taffy 

We are born from above.

Off-topic

[Taffy]

John 3 [ACV]
13 And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven.

All those who are Him ascend and descend, its say NO MAN, Man is often a Metaphor one who is of the carnal MIND#For those born of Him ascended with HIM in Life[ Heavens=HISMIND] as HE FIRST descended into our Joining us In our Death,

Psa 139:8   If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].

Taffy 

We are born from above.

Off-topic

Come the Lord WW, NOTHING is off Topic ~Selah~

[Molly]

John 3 [ACV]
13 And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven.

All those who are Him ascend and descend, its say NO MAN, Man is often a Metaphor one who is of the carnal MIND#For those born of Him ascended with HIM in Life[ Heavens=HISMIND] as HE FIRST descended into our Joining us In our Death,

Psa 139:8   If I ascend up into heaven, thou [art] there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou [art there].

Taffy 

We are born from above.

Off-topic

You are the one who started it by pretending the thief could not have ascended with Jesus into paradise at his death because of your limited reading of John 3:13,

But keep reading--that whosoever believeth in him should not perish but have eternal life. [John 3:15]

[WhiteWings]

John 3 [ACV]
13 And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven.

All those who are Him ascend and descend, its say NO MAN, Man is often a Metaphor one who is of the carnal MIND#For those born of Him ascended with HIM in Life[ Heavens=HISMIND] as HE FIRST descended into our Joining us In our Death,

"often" could be. But not in this case unless you claim Jesus has a carnal mind too.

And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven
And
no man has ascended into heaven, except the man who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven



Just for once just plainly answer my questions in a decent way. (Addressing everyone in this thread. Not just you Taffy)
Not the usual avoiding the real question. Replies with off-topic verses. Or circular reasoning.
If "you" don't know just say so. That's a honest and very acceptable answer for me.
I once thought people on this forum were different from many other forums that just keep repeating doctrine. Unfortunately I start seeing red lines of doctrine on this forum that seem kill many many discussion that otherwise could be useful for all.
I have my views on this topic an for example trinity which I think affects this thread also. Of course I feel strongly that my views (based on english and greek) are correct. Others have opposite views they think are correct.
I could be very wrong. In that case it should be easy to prove me wrong. Not with opinions but with verses. And in case of contradictions Greek and/or Hebrew overrules all translations.
If someone wants to give a on-topic reply please do so. If it's just a continuation of the smoke and mirrors game then just ignore me as I'll ignore this thread.

A great part of this forum's potential is killed by this kind of behavior. That benefits nobody except those who only seek confirmation of what they hope is true.

[Taffy]

John 3 [ACV]
13 And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven.

All those who are Him ascend and descend, its say NO MAN, Man is often a Metaphor one who is of the carnal MIND#For those born of Him ascended with HIM in Life[ Heavens=HISMIND] as HE FIRST descended into our Joining us In our Death,

"often" could be. But not in this case unless you claim Jesus has a carnal mind too.

And no man has ascended into heaven, except he who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven
And
no man has ascended into heaven, except the man who came down out of heaven: the Son of man who is in heaven



Just for once just plainly answer my questions in a decent way. (Addressing everyone in this thread. Not just you Taffy)
Not the usual avoiding the real question. Replies with off-topic verses. Or circular reasoning.
If "you" don't know just say so. That's a honest and very acceptable answer for me.
I once thought people on this forum were different from many other forums that just keep repeating doctrine. Unfortunately I start seeing red lines of doctrine on this forum that seem kill many many discussion that otherwise could be useful for all.
I have my views on this topic an for example trinity which I think affects this thread also. Of course I feel strongly that my views (based on english and greek) are correct. Others have opposite views they think are correct.
I could be very wrong. In that case it should be easy to prove me wrong. Not with opinions but with verses. And in case of contradictions Greek and/or Hebrew overrules all translations.
If someone wants to give a on-topic reply please do so. If it's just a continuation of the smoke and mirrors game then just ignore me as I'll ignore this thread.

A great part of this forum's potential is killed by this kind of behavior. That benefits nobody except those who only seek confirmation of what they hope is true.

WW your failing to Divide the EARTHLY man from the Heavenly MAN   theres the Earthly MAN   The corrupted MAN from Beneath, THEN the Spiritual MAN born from Above, Christ is the WAY The TRUTH and The Life # we follow that pattern From the Earthly Man unto the Spirtual MAN, which is the OLD MAN to the NEW MAN

[Taffy]

WW. theres Nothing to PROVE  to others, as the REVELATION comes from within through HIM in US# if you hear you will LISTEN, ITS HIS VOICE we HEAR not others. ~ Theres Nothing to PROVE Only unto yourself~ Let each man be convicted in HIS OWN HEART~friend we are miles apart in our understanding  but that fine as no two folk are the same~

[Molly]

The one who comes down from heaven is the one born from above.


3Blessed is he that readeth, and they that hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written therein: for the time is at hand.

--Rev 1


2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.  Rev 21

[Molly]

WW. theres Nothing to PROVE  to others, as the REVELATION comes from within through HIM in US# if you hear you will LISTEN, ITS HIS VOICE we HEAR not others. ~ Theres Nothing to PROVE Only unto yourself~ Let each man be convicted in HIS OWN HEART~friend we are miles apart in our understanding  but that fine as no two folk are the same~

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

2The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

3Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again [born from above], he cannot see the kingdom of God.

4Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

6That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

7Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

9Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?

10Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things?

11Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness.

12If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things?  [John 3]



12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

--John 1

[Molly]

A great part of this forum's potential is killed by this kind of behavior. That benefits nobody except those who only seek confirmation of what they hope is true.

ww, I am praying that he give you a heart of flesh so that you can receive him.

Until then, you remain a master of Israel.

Just take a leap of faith.

[Taffy]

A great part of this forum's potential is killed by this kind of behavior. That benefits nobody except those who only seek confirmation of what they hope is true.

ww, I am praying that he give you a heart of flesh so that you can receive him.

Until then, you remain a master of Israel.

Just take a leap of faith.

AMEN!!!!!

[redhotmagma]

"often" could be. But not in this case unless you claim Jesus has a carnal mind too.

The son of man was lifted up likened to the bronze serpent on a pole.  If the serpent is symbolic for the carnal mind, then maybe He did have a carnal mind.  Not that He sinned, but He still said not my will but yours be done.  the crown of thorns on His head also.

[Taffy]

"often" could be. But not in this case unless you claim Jesus has a carnal mind too.

The son of man was lifted up likened to the bronze serpent on a pole.  If the serpent is symbolic for the carnal mind, then maybe He did have a carnal mind.  Not that He sinned, but He still said not my will but yours be done.  the crown of thorns on His head also.

No HE didnt~As the god of this WORLD[ Carnal Mind}, The prince had NOTHING IN HIM# He Joined  us in our Death[ The Mind of the SERPENT, The canal Mind KNOWN  as the Flesh- ]

We read i When Im Raised from the EARTH "I will DRAW[ Drag off= The flesh= carnal Mind of MEN unto HIM~ He bore the Seperation due to the carnal MIND[ Flesh] HAVING his FLESH[ a picture of HIM sufferring the DRAGGING OFF our carnal mind] torn from HIS BODY so we are Healed By his Stripes ~

Becoming, If you wish SIN for US[ SERPENT] is Not HIM partaking in SIN[ seperation]


In whom the god of this world[ carnal mind] hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. #

Shalom~

[sheila]

ex; Him turning the tables........

     disobediant sons of God taking wives for themselves/namely all who they chose=man's thoughts evil all the time.........dragon floodwaters,

     that destroy all flesh/save 8 souls.

     obediant son of God come down from heaven/granted to have life in Himself=free gift of righteousness given to whom He please.. namely all whom He chose

      rivers of fire from beneath the throne.[spirits of just men made perfect=new heart new spirit]

     to this day..you may test the spirits in this regard...'that the word of God come in flesh']

[redhotmagma]

carnal=flesh, He came in the flesh, He had a mind and a will (not mine but yours be done).  He was tempted in all the same ways we are, yet did not sin.  He always yielded to the Father.

Thats why I think satan may not be the carnal mind, but the vehicle for satan

[sheila]

yep,

     sin in the flesh condemned....no man ever hated his own flesh. For the little children were partakers of flesh and blood, and He likwise

[redhotmagma]

NIV   The mind of sinful man is death, but the mind controlled by the Spirit is life and peace;
NASB   For the mind set on the flesh is death, but the mind set on the Spirit is life and peace,
NLT   If your sinful nature controls your mind, there is death. But if the Holy Spirit controls your mind, there is life and peace.
MSG   Obsession with self in these matters is a dead end; attention to God leads us out into the open, into a spacious, free life.
BBE   For the mind of the flesh is death, but the mind of the Spirit is life and peace:
AMP   Now the mind of the flesh [which is sense and reason without the Holy Spirit] is death [death that comprises all the miseries arising from sin, both here and hereafter]. But the mind of the [Holy] Spirit is life and [soul] peace [both now and forever].
NRSV   To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.
NKJV   For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.

Here and the next verse Romans 8:7 are the only place I've found the term carnal mind.  In this sense I'd say no Jesus did not have a carnal mind, and I think that may be more likely what people are referring to when they say carnal mind, He didn't have His mind set toward the flesh.