Author Topic: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it  (Read 23656 times)

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Offline sheila

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2011, 03:18:56 PM »
 and the Holy spirit led Jesus into the desert to be tempted/tried of satan.[goat-shaped demons in the wilderness]. Leviticuas 17;7

  Eating blood forbidden.....Any Israelite who sacrifices an ox,a lamb or a goat,in the camp,or outside of it,INSTEAD OF BRINGING IT TO THE ENTRANCE OF THE TENT

   OF MEETING;TO PRESENT IT AS AN OFFERING TO THE LORD IN FRONT OF THE TABERNACLE OF THE LORD-THAT MAN SHALL BE CONSIDERED GUILTY OF BLOODSHED

  HE HAS SHED BLOOD AND MUST BE CUT OFF FROM HIS PEOPLE....v 7 THEY MUST NO LONGER OFFER ANY OF THEIR SACRIFICES TO THE GOAT IDOLS...

   TO WHOM THEY PROSTITUTE THEMSELVES.

   message unto the gentiles....Acts 15;20...instead we should write to them,telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols,from sexual immorality,from the meat

  of strangled animals..AND FROM BLOOD

   and Satan entered in among them. The Lord asked satan 'from where have you come?" and he replied from going to and fro in the earth...

    Goats signify a spirit that leads.  a goat/or leader is not unclean of itself. But a spirit that leads into transgression is to perish in the wilderness[a wicked generation]

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #51 on: October 13, 2011, 03:27:55 PM »
Satan offers Jesus the things of flesh and blood.

The kingdoms of this world.

Using his power to satisfy and exalt himself--stones into bread, jumping off the pinacle.

But Jesus refuted him with the word of God.

His kingdom is not of this world.



[Even so, I am not going to repent of my parking space in front because it is a gift from God.  :happygrin:]

Offline sheila

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #52 on: October 13, 2011, 03:36:22 PM »
 Blood guiltiness of Babylon in the wilderness........all the blood of those slain come to be on her...goat-shaped demons.[strong she-goat?]..taught my people to err....

  prostitute.   Spiritual leaders of Babylon guilty of blood.....of all who have been killed on the earth

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #53 on: October 13, 2011, 03:38:56 PM »
Blood guiltiness of Babylon in the wilderness........all the blood of those slain come to be on her...goat-shaped demons.[strong she-goat?]..taught my people to err....

  prostitute.   Spiritual leaders of Babylon guilty of blood.....of all who have been killed on the earth


33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

 34Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

 35That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar.

 36Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation

[Mat 23]

Offline sheila

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #54 on: October 13, 2011, 03:53:49 PM »
 she traverse land and sea to make a proselte...and makes him two-fold the child of hell[body dead d/t sin in flesh,spiritually dead d/t doctrines of demons]

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #55 on: October 13, 2011, 04:32:28 PM »
Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

 17Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

 18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

 19Thy seed also had been as the sand, and the offspring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof; his name should not have been cut off nor destroyed from before me.

 20Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, The LORD hath redeemed his servant Jacob.

 21And they thirsted not when he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out.

 22There is no peace, saith the LORD, unto the wicked.

[Isaiah 48]
« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 04:37:41 PM by Molly »

Offline sheila

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #56 on: October 13, 2011, 04:39:35 PM »
 Amen :HeartThrob:

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #57 on: October 13, 2011, 04:43:03 PM »
1Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;

 2And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;

 3And did all eat the same spiritual meat;

 4And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.

 5But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.

1 Cor 10

Offline sheila

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #58 on: October 13, 2011, 05:12:17 PM »
 Isaaih 54;6    The Lord will call you back[come out of her my people] as if you were a wife deserted and distressed in spirit- a wife...

   who married young,only to be rejected,says your God.  For a breif moment I abandoned you,but with deep compassion I will bring you back.

   In a surge of anger,I hid my face from you for a moment,but with everlasting kindness I will have compassion on you,says the Lord,your redeemer.

   TO ME THIS IS LIKE THE DAY'S OF NOAH,WHEN I SWORE THAT THE WATERS OF NOAH WOULD NEVER AGAIN COVER THE EARTH[As it was in the days of Noah

    so IT WILL BE AT THE COMING OF THE SON OF MAN. For in the day's before the flood,people were eating and drinking,marrying and giving in marriage,up to the day

 Noah entered the ark,and they knew nothing about what would happen,until the flood came and took them all away[dragon floods] the earth helped the woman

   SO,NOW,I HAVE SWORN..NOT TO BE ANGRY WITH YOU,.NEVER TO REBUKE YOU AGAIN

Offline sheila

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #59 on: October 13, 2011, 06:47:00 PM »


   BRING IN YOUR IDOLS TO TELL US WHAT IS GOING TO HAPPEN,TELL US WHAT THE FORMER THINGS WERE

      [SODOM AND GOMORRHA WILL RETURN TO THEIR FORMER STATE]

    SO THAT WE MAY CONSIDER THEM AND KNOW THEIR FINAL OUTCOME,OR DECLARE TO US THE THINGS TO COME,TELL US WHAT THE FUTURE HOLDS,

    SO THAT WE MAY KNOW THAT YOU ARE GODS,DO SOMETHING,WHETHER GOOD OR BAD,SO THAT WE WILL BE DISMAYED AND FILLED WITH FEAR

   BUT YOU ARE LESS THEN NOTHING,AND YOUR WORKS ARE UTTERLY WORTHLESS,

   HE WHO CHOOSES YOU IS AN ABOMINATION...[THAT CAUSES DESOLATION]


    i HAVE STIRRED UP ONE FROM THE NORTH AND HE COMES- ONE FROM THE RISING SUN AND HE CALLS ON MY NAME

   HE TREADS ON RULERS AS IF THEY WERE MORTAR,AS IF HE WERE A POTTER TREADING CLAY


   I WAS THE FIRST TO TELL ZION,LOOK! HERE THEY ARE! I GAVE TO JERUSALEM A MESSENGER OF GOOD TIDINGS-

  I LOOK,BUT THERE IS NO-ONE AMONG THEM TO GIVE COUNSEL,NO-ONE TO GIVE ANSWERS WHEN I ASK THEM

  SEE, THEY ARE ALL FALSE, THEIR DEEDS AMOUNT TO NOTHING...THEIR IMAGES ARE BUT WIND AND CONFUSION......


   THE LORD WILL MARCH OUT LIKE A MIGHTY MAN,LIKE A WARRIOR HE WILL STIR UP HIS ZEAL;

   WITH A SHOUT HE WILL RAISE THE BATTLE CRY AND WILL TRIUMPH OVER HIS ENEMIES.

   FOR A LONG TIME I HAVE KEPT SILENT,I HAVE BEEN QUIET AND HELD MYSELF BACK

   BUT NOW...LIKE A WOMAN IN CHILDBIRTH...I CRY OUT..I GASP..I PANT,

   I WILL LAY WASTE THE MOUNTAINS AND HILLS AND DRY UP ALL THEIR VEGETATION

   I WILL...TURN RIVERS INTO ISLANDS AND DRY UP THE POOLS......

   I WILL LEAD THE BLIND BY WAYS THEY HAVE NOT KNOWN,ALONG UNFAMILIAR PATHS I WILL GUIDE THEM

   I WILL TURN THE DARKNESS INTO LIGHT BEFORE THEM...AND MAKE THE ROUGH PLACES SMOOTH

   THESE ARE THE THINGS I WILL DO,I WILL NOT FORSAKE THEM...


    BUT THOSE WHO TRUST IN IDOLS..WHO SAY TO IMAGES,'YOU ARE OUR GODS' WILL BE TURNED BACKIN UTTER SHAME....


     BUT THIS IS A PEOPLE PLUNDERED AND LOOTED ALL OF THEM TRAPPED IN PITS,OR HIDDEN AWAY IN PRISONS

    THEY HAVE BECOME PLUNDER..WITH NO-ONE TO RESCUE THEM,THEY HAVE BEEN MADE LOOT..WITH NO-ONE TO SAY...'SEND THEM BACK!'

   WHICH OF YOU WILL LISTEN TO THIS..OR PAY CLOSE ATTENTION IN TIME TO COME?.....


   BUT NOW,LISTEN...THIS IS WHAT THE LORD SAYS-HE WHO CREATED YOU,O'JACOB. HE WHO FORMED YOU,O'ISRAEL

   FEAR NOT,FOR I HAVE REDEEMED YOU,I HAVE SUMMONED YOU BY NAME,YOU ARE MINE

   WHEN YOU PASS THROUGH THE WATERS I WILL BE WITH YOU,AND WHEN YOU PASS THROUGH THE RIVERS...THEY WILL NOT SWEEP OVER YOU

  WHEN YOU WALK THROUGH THE FIRE,YOU WILL NOT BE BURNED; THE FLAMES WILL NOT SET YOU ABLAZE


   FOR I AM THE LORD YOUR GOD,THE HOLY ONE OF ISRAEL,YOUR SAVIOUR

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #60 on: October 13, 2011, 06:52:06 PM »
3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

 4Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;

 5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.

 6Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.

 7They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

[Isaiah 48]




12Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. [Isa 48]

« Last Edit: October 13, 2011, 07:02:54 PM by Molly »


Offline Pierac

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #62 on: October 14, 2011, 05:07:43 AM »
I have questions about the timings of resurrections, judgments, and where people are exactly in the meantime.  But even though I don't have all the answers to those questions and how it all fits together, I guess it comes down to, do I believe my own questions, doubts, and reasonings?  Or do I believe Jesus?

  "..upon this bedrock I will build My group of Called Ones, and the gates of the grave won't overpower it."  Mt. 16:18, The Christian Bible (1991)

"..and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"  John 11:26  ESV

Your right, it's about the timing... believe Jesus   :2c:

Joh 6:39  "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

Joh 6:40  "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Joh 6:44  "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 11:24  Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

Joh 3:13  No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in
Christ will rise first.
 

 :dontknow:
Paul

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #63 on: October 14, 2011, 05:33:32 AM »


Romans 6:6;
For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin

Romans 8:10;
But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness.

Galatians 2:20;
I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me.
The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #64 on: October 14, 2011, 05:37:50 AM »
I have questions about the timings of resurrections, judgments, and where people are exactly in the meantime.  But even though I don't have all the answers to those questions and how it all fits together, I guess it comes down to, do I believe my own questions, doubts, and reasonings?  Or do I believe Jesus?

  "..upon this bedrock I will build My group of Called Ones, and the gates of the grave won't overpower it."  Mt. 16:18, The Christian Bible (1991)

"..and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"  John 11:26  ESV

Your right, it's about the timing... believe Jesus   :2c:

Joh 6:39  "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

Joh 6:40  "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Joh 6:44  "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 11:24  Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

Joh 3:13  No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in
Christ will rise first.
 

 :dontknow:
Paul

I hear ya :)    I'm just not sure how "cut and dried" it is.  Sort of searching through it...
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #65 on: October 14, 2011, 05:46:40 AM »
I have questions about the timings of resurrections, judgments, and where people are exactly in the meantime.  But even though I don't have all the answers to those questions and how it all fits together, I guess it comes down to, do I believe my own questions, doubts, and reasonings?  Or do I believe Jesus?

  "..upon this bedrock I will build My group of Called Ones, and the gates of the grave won't overpower it."  Mt. 16:18, The Christian Bible (1991)

"..and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"  John 11:26  ESV

Your right, it's about the timing... believe Jesus   :2c:

Joh 6:39  "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

Joh 6:40  "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Joh 6:44  "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 11:24  Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

Joh 3:13  No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in
Christ will rise first.
 

 :dontknow:
Paul
Raising him up on the last day refers to resurrection of the body.

After saying all this, he proceded to raise Lazarus up that very day.

He tells Martha, "I am the resurrection and the life."

So, technically, how could anyone be in Christ and be 'dead.'

Yet, he uses that word to distinguish from people who still walk on earth in their earthly bodies.

But, we don't need this earthly body to live.

Our friend Lazarus is asleep.  Let's go wake him up!
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 08:46:08 PM by Molly »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #66 on: October 14, 2011, 01:19:50 PM »
I would like some opinions on Reply #47 and 48
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #67 on: October 14, 2011, 02:56:14 PM »

You'll like this, Molly:

www.jhshumaker.info/PDF/JESUS_IN_THE_TORAH.pdf
wow Thank you Beloved Servant.

That looks really good.

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #68 on: October 14, 2011, 05:05:08 PM »
DURHAM, N.C.—Eben Alexander was your typical neurosurgeon. A firm believer of scientific reductionism, he thought that all thoughts originate from the brain. But this changed in 2008 when he encountered a case of near-death experience (NDE).

As much as it was the complete opposite of his previous views, he couldn't dismiss or avoid the case—it was none other than his own experience, and he had to face it and search for an explanation.

....

"To compare it with sitting here and talking on the phone or working on my computer, it was much, much more real, very rich, and as if I were truly being alive for the first time," Alexander said. "It was really amazing."

"My brain right now—I think it recovered pretty well—could not do anything close to what my brain was doing deep in coma," Alexander said in this year's International Association for Near-Death Studies (IANDS) conference.

"How does a dying brain end up getting far, far more powerful and able to handle these tremendous loads of information instantaneously and put it altogether?"

"For me the problem was how to explain the hyper-reality. How do I explain such a rich experience, such an interactive experience, one with so much very vivid, and auditory and visual components when the parts of my human brain that normally handle all that were infected with meningitis and were not working. And especially how was it that the mind would experience consciousness, and handling very complex tasks?" Alexander said during the interview.
....

My conclusion is that the experience was very real and had to happen outside of my brain, and it had to happen outside of this physical universe. […] There is an element of our consciousness that is not dependent on the brain and that is what was set free, for me, and went on that journey."

"Any scientists who doubt the reality of such extraordinary near-death experiences should begin by explaining the fundamental mechanism of conscious awareness. The evidence for the reality of many related phenomena, such as remote viewing and influence, and out-of-body phenomena, is overwhelming. The reductive materialist view of physical reality, as it currently stands, is not going to fully explain consciousness," he said.
...

"I see science and spirituality going forward, together—science and spirituality as being one, and complementing each other beautifully. Both the religious side and the science side will have to let go of some of the more simplistic dogmatic assumptions and statements, but then science and spirituality and this deeper knowledge of the profound nature of our individual consciousness can move forward. The world will be an enormously better place when we do that," he concluded.

http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/science/near-death-experiences-30-years-of-research-part-5-62649.html

Offline Pierac

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #69 on: October 17, 2011, 02:27:13 AM »
I have questions about the timings of resurrections, judgments, and where people are exactly in the meantime.  But even though I don't have all the answers to those questions and how it all fits together, I guess it comes down to, do I believe my own questions, doubts, and reasonings?  Or do I believe Jesus?

  "..upon this bedrock I will build My group of Called Ones, and the gates of the grave won't overpower it."  Mt. 16:18, The Christian Bible (1991)

"..and everyone who lives and believes in me shall never die. Do you believe this?"  John 11:26  ESV

Your right, it's about the timing... believe Jesus   :2c:

Joh 6:39  "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.

Joh 6:40  "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Joh 6:44  "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 6:54 "He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.

Joh 11:24  Martha *said to Him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day."

Joh 3:13  No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. 

1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in
Christ will rise first.
 

 :dontknow:
Paul
Raising him up on the last day refers to resurrection of the body.

After saying all this, he proceded to raise Lazarus up that very day.

He tells Martha, "I am the resurrection and the life."

So, technically, how could anyone be in Christ and be 'dead.'

Yet, he uses that word to distinguish from people who still walk on earth in their earthly bodies.

But, we don't need this earthly body to live.

Our friend Lazarus is asleep.  Let's go wake him up!

Yes, I understand this Greek interpretation. However, it has no foundation within scripture! It's a tradition of men!

The Interpreter's Dictionary of the Bible:
"No biblical text authorizes the statement that the soul is separated from the body at the moment of death" (Vol. 1, p. 802).

Christian Words and Christian Meanings, by John Burnaby (pp. 148, 149):

"Greek philosophers had argued that the dissolution which we call death happens to nothing but bodies, and that the souls of men are by their native constitution immortal. The Greek word for immortality occurs only once in the New Testament, and there it belongs to none but the King of Kings…. The immortality of the soul is no part of the Christian creed,  just as it is no part of Christian anthropology to divide soul and body and confine the real man, the essence of personality, to supposedly separable soul for which embodiment is imprisonment…. Jesus taught no doctrine of everlasting life for disembodied souls, such as no Jew loyal to the faith his fathers could have accepted or even understood. But Jewish belief was in the raising of the dead at the Last Day."

(Why then do churches constantly say that disembodied souls have gone to heaven or hell?)


Law and Grace, by Professor A. F. Knight (p. 79):
"In the Old Testament man is never considered to be a soul dwelling in a body, a soul that will one day be set free from the oppression of the body, at the death of that body, like a bird released from a cage. The Hebrews were not dualists in their understanding of God's world."


Ecc 9:10  Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going.    :dontknow:

Body or no body!  :dontknow:   No work!  No thought! No wisdom! No Nothing!


Joh 6:40  "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

Raise HIM or raise his body???    :dontknow:

Joh 5:28  Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice...     Who (humans) are in the tombs or just physical bodys  with out souls in the tombs?  How do bodys with out souls hear him? :dontknow:

The truth is the truth... "No biblical text authorizes the statement that the soul is separated from the body at the moment of death"  Only the Egyptian, Phoenician and  Greek myths teach such, as I read no biblical text!  :2c:

Paul

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #70 on: October 17, 2011, 03:04:55 AM »
Quote from: Pierac
"No biblical text authorizes the statement that the soul is separated from the body at the moment of death"

body, soul, spirit

Remember him--before the silver cord is severed, or the golden bowl is broken; before the pitcher is shattered at the spring, or the wheel broken at the well. Ecc 12:6

What do you think goes to Hades if there is no soul?

BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.  [Acts 2:27]


The Bible is pretty clear that at death there is separation of body, soul, and spirit--the body returns to dust, the soul to Hades, and the spirit to God.

Paul tells his Christian brothers that there is an eternal body in heaven prepared for us [for our souls] if/when this earthly tent [body] we are living in dissolves.  But, then if I recall, you discount Paul.

Yet, this is in keeping with the Melchizedek priesthood which is based on the power of an indestructible life.

For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands.[2Cor 5:1]
« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 03:18:15 AM by Molly »

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #71 on: October 17, 2011, 03:30:15 AM »
Paul's 'to be or not to be' soliloquy:


19For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ,

 20According to my earnest expectation and my hope, that in nothing I shall be ashamed, but that with all boldness, as always, so now also Christ shall be magnified in my body, whether it be by life, or by death.

 21For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

 22But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.

 23For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:

 24Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.

--Phil 1

Offline Pierac

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #72 on: October 17, 2011, 06:26:50 AM »
Quote from: Pierac
"No biblical text authorizes the statement that the soul is separated from the body at the moment of death"

body, soul, spirit

Remember him--before the silver cord is severed, or the golden bowl is broken; before the pitcher is shattered at the spring, or the wheel broken at the well. Ecc 12:6

What do you think goes to Hades if there is no soul?

BECAUSE YOU WILL NOT ABANDON MY SOUL TO HADES, NOR ALLOW YOUR HOLY ONE TO UNDERGO DECAY.  [Acts 2:27]


The Bible is pretty clear that at death there is separation of body, soul, and spirit--the body returns to dust, the soul to Hades, and the spirit to God.

Paul tells his Christian brothers that there is an eternal body in heaven prepared for us [for our souls] if/when this earthly tent [body] we are living in dissolves.  But, then if I recall, you discount Paul.

Yet, this is in keeping with the Melchizedek priesthood which is based on the power of an indestructible life.

For we know that when this earthly tent we live in is taken down (that is, when we die and leave this earthly body), we will have a house in heaven, an eternal body made for us by God himself and not by human hands.[2Cor 5:1]

I do not discount Paul but support his teachings... It is you whom actually disagree with Paul... 

What does Paul tell us?  (2Ti 2:18)  men (or women) who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. Wow... This was written many decades after many thousands of christians have died in Jesus' name!!!

John tells us  (Rev 20:5)  The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrectionWas John talking about just bodies or actual (souls) people???   :dontknow:

John also wrote many years after Jesus death...  Joh 3:13  No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.  That means no one!

Why did John write this... to show you the past or present the future...  Joh 20:31  but these have been written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing you may have life in His name.

Perhaps your reading traditions of men... not scripture...  :dontknow:
Paul

Offline Pierac

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #73 on: October 17, 2011, 06:42:39 AM »
I would like some opinions on Reply #47 and 48

...

The Israelites were also taken into the desert as soon as they were released from captivity by God.
That's a pattern I never really figured out.
They were in the desert for 40 years. Jesus for 40 days. That's simple.
But they were only that long in the desert because they didn't obey. Their journey could have ended at mt. Sinai. I think there was "pentecost event" at that mountain.  (the cloud)

That was 3 months after they left Egypt. What happend to Jesus after 3 days? Or should the failure of the Isrealites no be part of the pattern.
Could be; but "3" is a to significant number to just ignore....

Sorry brother...
I'm just not into numbers! and stuff!

However... 3 seems important to Mike...   http://www.iswasandwillbe.com/completion.php

You can back click to the other numbers, colors and stuff! Hope it's helpful!  :thumbsup:

Paul

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt. 16:18 ...and the gates of Hell (Hades) shall not prevail against it
« Reply #74 on: October 17, 2011, 11:15:13 AM »
Quote from: Pierac
What does Paul tell us? (2Ti 2:18) men (or women) who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place, and they upset the faith of some. Wow... This was written many decades after many thousands of christians have died in Jesus' name!!!

I'm not saying the resurrection has already taken place.  The resurrection is an event involving our physical bodies, happening to many at the same time. 

I quoted Paul saying that we have an eternal body prepared for us by God in heaven when this body dies.  I quoted Paul saying he would rather leave this body and be with the Lord.  This is different from Jesus ascending into heaven body, soul, and spirit.

I'm trying to take all passages of scripture into account instead of just some.

But I, along with millions of Christians, know the truth about this matter--that He will never forsake us or leave us, that  whether in this body or out of it,  we will be ever with the Lord.


 2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.

 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

--John 14


...and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever. [Psa 23]


« Last Edit: October 17, 2011, 11:33:42 AM by Molly »