Author Topic: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment  (Read 6605 times)

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Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #25 on: October 22, 2012, 06:40:21 PM »
That is an interesting question that leads me a bit off topic, but here goes... what is the "now" for? I can scarce endure to see so much suffering with little power to do anything. Just what is the now for? In a practical sense, I have a job and kids and have real struggles with both. I've lost several family members far too young. What is the purpose of it all? Will what we learn be useful in the next age? What are we here for?

Hi Deena,

This is just my opinion but I think we are here to learn good and evil and the consequences of both. I think in order to be like God we have to understand both. I think God gives us evil to learn how to use it, good in order that we know the difference. How would we know about the bad if we only had the good?  Not the exact words but it says that God gave man evil to humble him by it.

CHB

 

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #26 on: October 22, 2012, 08:39:26 PM »
The "judgement" is a bit of a paradox for me. If only by the Spirit and God's gift of faith does one come to believe, then why is there any judgement for believing or not believing? It is like holding someone accountable for something they can't control. If it is God who works in us by grace to teach us to deny ungodliness, if it is He who does the work, not us, then what are we being judged for? Apart from Him we can do nothing. Jesus said it Himself. So what am I being judged for? If He is the author and finisher of my faith and I am trusting in Him for righteousness and strength as He calls to me to do, then what is there in me to be judged? And with those who do not yet believe, can God justly sentence people of whom He has not revealed Himself? The bible tells us that God has purosely blinded some to the truth. Can a just God hold them accountable for that? For me, the only way to settle this is with God's proclamation "I am a just God and a Savior"-- He is the Savior of all because He is a just God. We have all been subjected to futility by His will in hope. Surely He must save all or He is not a just God. So then what is being judged?

The word "judgment" has been for so long twisted to mean "punishment" that we automatically respond negatively, but the writer of Hebrews does not say, "then comes the punishment". As to what and why we will be judged? In my opinion, we are here to love and shine the light as servants of the Lord Jesus. There is great reward in binding our souls to Him and allowing that spirit of sacrificial love to pour through our spirit.

That God will save all is a given among us.

What is less than given, perhaps, is that we all will stand before the judgment seat of Christ to receive certain rewards, or the loss of certain rewards- in regards to the stewardship of faith we exercised during the days of our sojourning in the flesh.

This has nothing to do with eternal life, it has to do with sonship and the "better resurrection".

The focus that the creation was subject to futility is that it was done "in hope"- that hope being accomplished and fulfilled through the manifestation of the sons of God, a priesthood of overcomers in the spirit of reconciliation. Not everyone will participate in that.
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Offline sheila

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #27 on: October 22, 2012, 09:13:58 PM »
  WELL,YOU CERTAINLY GOT THAT RIGHT ON TRACK,BROTHER. :iagree:

   FOR IT IS NEVER A VAIN THING TO WORSHIP AND SERVE GOD..IT IS ALWAYS TO OUR

  BENEFIT TO LISTEN AND DO WHAT HE SAYS TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY[AND SINCE HE

  IS THE ONE WHO FURNISHES THAT ABILITY,HE KNOWS JUST WHAT IT IS]

   THERE ARE 'PLACES PREPARED' IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN........

  TWO BROTHERS ASKED JESUS FOR 'POSITIONS' ON THE LEFT AND RIGHT"..AND JESUS TOLD THEM

 THEY KNEW NOT WHAT THEY ASKED.... FOR IT WOULD GO TO WHOM GOD HAD PREPARED IT FOR..

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #28 on: October 22, 2012, 10:12:32 PM »
  WELL,YOU CERTAINLY GOT THAT RIGHT ON TRACK,BROTHER. :iagree:

   FOR IT IS NEVER A VAIN THING TO WORSHIP AND SERVE GOD..IT IS ALWAYS TO OUR

  BENEFIT TO LISTEN AND DO WHAT HE SAYS TO THE BEST OF OUR ABILITY[AND SINCE HE

  IS THE ONE WHO FURNISHES THAT ABILITY,HE KNOWS JUST WHAT IT IS]

   THERE ARE 'PLACES PREPARED' IN THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN........

  TWO BROTHERS ASKED JESUS FOR 'POSITIONS' ON THE LEFT AND RIGHT"..AND JESUS TOLD THEM

 THEY KNEW NOT WHAT THEY ASKED.... FOR IT WOULD GO TO WHOM GOD HAD PREPARED IT FOR..

Yes, exactly, He knows and He loves us and is full of mercy. The word "overcomers" has been co-opted even as "judgment" has.

An overcomer is someone who clings to faith in God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, "allowing the love" to the best of their ability till He comes for them. All is grace, and God knows the secrets of our hearts so much better than we do.

Thank God for that.

 Amen?    :cloud9:
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #29 on: October 22, 2012, 10:31:42 PM »
Quote from: eaglesway
Yes, exactly, He knows and He loves us and is full of mercy. The word "overcomers" has been co-opted even as "judgment" has.

I think the "overcomers" apply to the Jews and not us. Why do we need to overcome when Jesus did that for us?

If we have been baptized, buried, resurrected, and are sitting on the right hand of God in Christ, what do we have to overcome?

CHB

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #30 on: October 22, 2012, 10:38:25 PM »
It is simply a daily renewal of faith, hope and love- abiding in Christ, that I speak of. Perhaps Paul said it best,

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
(Rom 12:1-2)


Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Php 3:8-15)

The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.webs.com

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #31 on: October 22, 2012, 11:16:45 PM »
I think the "overcomers" apply to the Jews and not us. Why do we need to overcome when Jesus did that for us?
Jesus died for all people. That includes Jews.
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #32 on: October 22, 2012, 11:53:57 PM »
CHB - IMO
That we have to overcome are the trials and temptations of this life that cause us to grow and were brought our way to encourage total dependence on the Lord
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 04:24:40 PM by ded2daworld »
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Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #33 on: October 23, 2012, 12:18:49 AM »
It is simply a daily renewal of faith, hope and love- abiding in Christ, that I speak of. Perhaps Paul said it best,

I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
(Rom 12:1-2)


Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ, And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith: That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death; If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Php 3:8-15)

Yes, but who was Paul talking to when he said this?

CHB

Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #34 on: October 23, 2012, 12:43:39 AM »
I think the "overcomers" apply to the Jews and not us. Why do we need to overcome when Jesus did that for us?
Jesus died for all people. That includes Jews.
 :2c:

You are right WW but the Jews don't see it that way. Weren't they the overcomers of what the laws were all about? Instead of saying "Jews" I should have said "those under the laws" this would have been much more accurate.

My question was, if we are sitting in heaven on the right hand of God what do we need to overcome?

Paul said "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God. Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth. For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.

But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. NOW IF ANY MAN HAVE NOT THE SPIRIT OF CHRIST, HE IS NONE OF HIS.

There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

CHB
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 01:51:40 AM by CHB »

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #35 on: October 23, 2012, 08:14:29 AM »
I think the "overcomers" apply to the Jews and not us. Why do we need to overcome when Jesus did that for us?
Jesus died for all people. That includes Jews.
 :2c:

You are right WW but the Jews don't see it that way.
Neither do muslims. But is it relevant? Jesus did something. Made a statement. He didn't ask permission. He often said things Jews dissagree(d) with. Father agreed and that's what matters.
 :2c:
Quote
Weren't they the overcomers of what the laws were all about? Instead of saying "Jews" I should have said "those under the laws" this would have been much more accurate.

My question was, if we are sitting in heaven on the right hand of God what do we need to overcome?

Paul said "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
You answered your own question.
Jesus did not die so we are automaticly overcome.
Jesus died to pay the wages of sin. Death.
So imo that simply means everybody will be resurrected. Without Jesus everybody simply would stay dead for ever.
That's step 1 so to speak.
Step 2 is becoming an overcomer/new creature.
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #36 on: October 23, 2012, 05:36:06 PM »
Quote from: WhiteWings
Neither do muslims. But is it relevant? Jesus did something. Made a statement. He didn't ask permission. He often said things Jews dissagree(d) with. Father agreed and that's what matters.
 :2c:
Quote

WW, I think you misunderstood what I feebly tried to explain.
Yes, Jesus died for Jew's Muslims and the whole world but he only gave the law to Israel to overcome which they couldn't and neither can we. Those who consider themselves bound by keeping laws and doing, doing, doing, have to overcome.

Quote from: WhiteWings
You answered your own question.
Jesus did not die so we are automaticly overcome.
Jesus died to pay the wages of sin. Death.
So imo that simply means everybody will be resurrected. Without Jesus everybody simply would stay dead for ever.
That's step 1 so to speak.
Step 2 is becoming an overcomer/new creature.
 :2c

But if you are IN CHRIST you are a new creature, you are sitting on the right hand of God NOW.

You said, "Jesus died to pay the wages of sin. Death." Then what do we need to overcome. It goes back to what is sin? Isn't sin what you are saying that needs to be overcome? If not sin, then what?

CHB
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 07:30:43 PM by CHB »

Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #37 on: October 23, 2012, 05:45:19 PM »
Quote from: eaglesway
I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.
(Php 3:8-15)

Notice what paul said "forgetting those things that are behind and reaching forth unto those things which are before". 

Also, Paul said "Let us therefore, AS MANY AS BE PERFECT, BE THUS MINDED.  What did he mean by this statment?

CHB
« Last Edit: October 23, 2012, 07:29:34 PM by CHB »

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #38 on: October 23, 2012, 06:48:26 PM »
Maybe Paul was talking about the constant pull of this world.
I know I would be overjoyed to overcome and attain my screen name status
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #39 on: October 23, 2012, 07:40:38 PM »
Quote from: WhiteWings
Neither do muslims. But is it relevant? Jesus did something. Made a statement. He didn't ask permission. He often said things Jews dissagree(d) with. Father agreed and that's what matters.
 :2c:

WW, I think you misunderstood what I feebly tried to explain.
Yes, Jesus died for Jew's Muslims and the whole world but he only gave the law to Israel to overcome which they couldn't and neither can we. Those who consider themselves bound by keeping laws and doing, doing, doing, have to overcome.

Quote from: WhiteWings
You answered your own question.
Jesus did not die so we are automaticly overcome.
Jesus died to pay the wages of sin. Death.
So imo that simply means everybody will be resurrected. Without Jesus everybody simply would stay dead for ever.
That's step 1 so to speak.
Step 2 is becoming an overcomer/new creature.
 :2c

But if you are IN CHRIST you are a new creature, you are sitting on the right hand of God NOW.

You said, "Jesus died to pay the wages of sin. Death." Then what do we need to overcome. It goes back to what is sin? Isn't sin what you are saying that needs to be overcome? If not sin, then what?

CHB
Quote from: CHB
Those who consider themselves bound by keeping laws and doing, doing, doing, have to overcome.
Just feel bound or actually also live by the laws?


To be honest I don't know who exactly are 'in Christ'.
First resurrection ---> Overcomers --> In Christ.
Second resurrection ---> Goats ---> Not in Christ.
Second resurrection ---> Sheep/saints --->  Are they in Christ?

Quote
You said, "Jesus died to pay the wages of sin. Death." Then what do we need to overcome. It goes back to what is sin? Isn't sin what you are saying that needs to be overcome? If not sin, then what?
Yes, overcoming is stop sinning.
Not sure what you question is so I assume you mean Jesus overcame for us.
I see those things seperately.
The wages of sin is death. Just 1 tiny sin and your destiny is everlasting death. Even if the rest of your life is as holy as Jesus lived. So you totally overcame sin. But to no avail because 1 one tiny sin gets you plunged into an everlasting death.
And that's what Jesus took care of.
 :2c:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #40 on: October 23, 2012, 09:34:48 PM »

Quote from: WhiteWings
Yes, overcoming is stop sinning.

If Jesus took care of our sins past present and future how are you going to overcome something that don't exist?

(1John 3:4) Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.


Quote from: WhiteWings
Not sure what you question is so I assume you mean Jesus overcame for us.
I see those things seperately.
The wages of sin is death. Just 1 tiny sin and your destiny is everlasting death. Even if the rest of your life is as holy as Jesus lived. So you totally overcame sin. But to no avail because 1 one tiny sin gets you plunged into an everlasting death.
And that's what Jesus took care of.
 :2c:

Do you agree that Jesus took care of ALL SIN?

(1John 3:6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

(1John 5:8) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;

(1John 5:4) For whatsoever is born of God OVERCOMETH THE WORLD. How? Because Christ has overcome the world.

As Jabcat has said many times, not all are called now but those who are called and who have been crucified, buried, resurrected, and are sitting in Christ have nothing to overcome. It is those who feel they have to obey laws, works, as I said "always doing, but never feeling satisfied that what they do is good enough". These are overcomers. They don't have faith that Jesus took care of it all, they always feel they have to do something or their life is a mess. They feel they are so bad that nothing they do will ever be enough to satisfy God. There is nothing that we can do to make ourselves any better. Paul said "what do we have that wasn't given to us". By the grace of God go I.

CHB

 

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #41 on: October 23, 2012, 09:46:21 PM »

Quote from: WhiteWings
Yes, overcoming is stop sinning.

If Jesus took care of our sins past present and future how are you going to overcome something that don't exist?
Jesus paid the penalty for sin. That doesn't mean sin no longer exists/is commited.



Quote
Quote from: WhiteWings
Not sure what you question is so I assume you mean Jesus overcame for us.
I see those things seperately.
The wages of sin is death. Just 1 tiny sin and your destiny is everlasting death. Even if the rest of your life is as holy as Jesus lived. So you totally overcame sin. But to no avail because 1 one tiny sin gets you plunged into an everlasting death.
And that's what Jesus took care of.
 :2c:

Do you agree that Jesus took care of ALL SIN?
The payment, yes. But He didn't stop the sinning of the world because obviously countless sin have been commited since His death.

Quote
(1John 3:6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
That means sinning is still possible, still exists. And those who are in Him stopped sinning.

Quote
(1John 5:8) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
We also know many aren't born of God.

Quote
(1John 5:4) For whatsoever is born of God OVERCOMETH THE WORLD. How? Because Christ has overcome the world.
But for that teh step of rebirth has to be taken. A step many haven't taken yet.


Maybe we are discussing different things  :winkgrin:

 
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #42 on: October 23, 2012, 10:57:58 PM »

Quote from: WhiteWings
Yes, overcoming is stop sinning.

If Jesus took care of our sins past present and future how are you going to overcome something that don't exist?
Jesus paid the penalty for sin. That doesn't mean sin no longer exists/is commited.



Quote
Quote from: WhiteWings
Not sure what you question is so I assume you mean Jesus overcame for us.
I see those things seperately.
The wages of sin is death. Just 1 tiny sin and your destiny is everlasting death. Even if the rest of your life is as holy as Jesus lived. So you totally overcame sin. But to no avail because 1 one tiny sin gets you plunged into an everlasting death.
And that's what Jesus took care of.
 :2c:

Do you agree that Jesus took care of ALL SIN?
The payment, yes. But He didn't stop the sinning of the world because obviously countless sin have been commited since His death.

Quote
(1John 3:6) Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
That means sinning is still possible, still exists. And those who are in Him stopped sinning.

Quote
(1John 5:8) We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not;
We also know many aren't born of God.

Quote
(1John 5:4) For whatsoever is born of God OVERCOMETH THE WORLD. How? Because Christ has overcome the world.
But for that teh step of rebirth has to be taken. A step many haven't taken yet.


Maybe we are discussing different things  :winkgrin:

WW, did you read my post?

You said, "That means sinning is still possible, still exists. And those who are in Him stopped sinning."

I believe this is what I said?

I thought what I wrote below explained what I was saying but I guess not.
If laws and works are what constitutes sin and if we continue doing them, laws/works then sin is always knocking on our door isn't it?

As Jabcat has said many times, not all are called now but those who are called and who have been crucified, buried, resurrected, and are sitting in Christ have nothing to overcome. It is those who feel they have to obey laws, works, as I said "always doing, but never feeling satisfied that what they do is good enough". These are overcomers. They don't have faith that Jesus took care of it all, they always feel they have to do something or their life is a mess. They feel they are so bad that nothing they do will ever be enough to satisfy God. There is nothing that we can do to make ourselves any better. Paul said "what do we have that wasn't given to us". By the grace of God go I.

CHB


Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #43 on: October 23, 2012, 11:15:44 PM »
Paul also said that those that try to save themselves by DOING anything are rejecting Christ and the cross. They are not trusting God to be their saviour by trying to be their own saviour.
This do and done are the crux that seperates Christianity from all other religions.

All others say reach, strive, be good. and if you work hard enough to keep all the rules and regulations, maybe, just maybe, you'll be able to make it to heaven.

Christianity says a person can't do anything to save themselves. When they realize this and acknowledge it, they cry out for God to reach down and be the "lifter of their head"
A wondrous thing (besides God loving us) is that logically, if there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, it follows that once God has indwelt us (His Spirit being our seal or gaurantee we belong to him) there is nothing we can do to lose our salvation. Jesus= the author and finisher of our faith.
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2012, 12:08:04 AM »
Paul also said that those that try to save themselves by DOING anything are rejecting Christ and the cross. They are not trusting God to be their saviour by trying to be their own saviour.
This do and done are the crux that seperates Christianity from all other religions.

All others say reach, strive, be good. and if you work hard enough to keep all the rules and regulations, maybe, just maybe, you'll be able to make it to heaven.

Christianity says a person can't do anything to save themselves. When they realize this and acknowledge it, they cry out for God to reach down and be the "lifter of their head"
A wondrous thing (besides God loving us) is that logically, if there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, it follows that once God has indwelt us (His Spirit being our seal or gaurantee we belong to him) there is nothing we can do to lose our salvation. Jesus= the author and finisher of our faith.

Amen.  Not by anything that we have or can do but because of what Christ did. :banana: :dsunny:

CHB
« Last Edit: October 24, 2012, 12:11:49 AM by CHB »

Offline jabcat

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2012, 12:52:43 AM »
Paul also said that those that try to save themselves by DOING anything are rejecting Christ and the cross. They are not trusting God to be their saviour by trying to be their own saviour.
This do and done are the crux that seperates Christianity from all other religions.

All others say reach, strive, be good. and if you work hard enough to keep all the rules and regulations, maybe, just maybe, you'll be able to make it to heaven.

Christianity says a person can't do anything to save themselves. When they realize this and acknowledge it, they cry out for God to reach down and be the "lifter of their head"
A wondrous thing (besides God loving us) is that logically, if there is nothing we can do to earn our salvation, it follows that once God has indwelt us (His Spirit being our seal or gaurantee we belong to him) there is nothing we can do to lose our salvation. Jesus= the author and finisher of our faith.

Amen.  Not by anything that we have or can do but because of what Christ did. :banana: :dsunny:

CHB

 :iagree: :dsunny:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2012, 08:14:19 AM »
WW, did you read my post?
Yes I did. I ended my previous post with
Quote
Maybe we are discussing different things
 
Anyway good we agree  :gimmefive:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Deena

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2012, 01:28:13 PM »
This is what makes me crazy--if all we know is a gift from God and grace and righteousness are a gift that is not earned, if apart from Him I can do nothing, then why then ask me to do something? Submit yourself a living sacrifice, do not be conformed to the world... the list of do's is long and I have beat myself up with them for 20 evangelical years. Indeed the experience of evil humbles man--its mission all too aparent for me. I am coming to the end of trusting in myself--it's futile. Ok, with that realization, I am terrified at those list of do's. They mock me as I cannot do them consistently. That is part of the paradox--it's all a gift and by God's will, oh and by the way, you have to do things. What? Forgive me for belaboring this point. It really does make me crazy in trying to reconcile it.

Offline ded2daworld

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2012, 03:38:47 PM »
Hi Deena,
you're right. On the one hand, God does everything. On the other hand you are being asked to "do"
IMO, The difference is God doing it through you rather than you doing it to please God or "score brownie points" with him.
Understand no one does things consistently when it comes to dying to self and letting the Spirit move you to the point where he is doing everything.  Here is a Jeff parable:

When I was a child my first bicycle broke. I tried to fix it but I couldn't. I started crying and my Father came out and asked what was wrong. I told him and he told me not to worry that "We" could fix it. He had me put my little hands on his big strong ones and soon, the bike was repaired. When my mother came home I excitedly told her that Daddy and I had fixed my broken bike (as if he couldn't have fixed it without my help)

In the same way, Father can do all the "fixing" He wants to without us but it is His good pleasure to have us participate. He doesn't expect you to help with the whole world, He brings you to people or brings people to you that God's spirit working through you acheives his purpose. :gimmefive:
"Why do so many people think that the Bible is only inspired at certain points -  and that  THEY are inspired to pick out which points?"

Offline CHB

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Re: Hebrews 9:27 Die, Then Judgment
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2012, 04:31:56 PM »
This is what makes me crazy--if all we know is a gift from God and grace and righteousness are a gift that is not earned, if apart from Him I can do nothing, then why then ask me to do something? Submit yourself a living sacrifice, do not be conformed to the world... the list of do's is long and I have beat myself up with them for 20 evangelical years. Indeed the experience of evil humbles man--its mission all too aparent for me. I am coming to the end of trusting in myself--it's futile. Ok, with that realization, I am terrified at those list of do's. They mock me as I cannot do them consistently. That is part of the paradox--it's all a gift and by God's will, oh and by the way, you have to do things. What? Forgive me for belaboring this point. It really does make me crazy in trying to reconcile it.

Hi Deena,

I use to have this same problem and still do at times I have to remind myself of what Paul said "for it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL AND TO DO of his good pleasure".

This is the answer to the whole problem. Once you come to see that it is God working in you that does ALL of the works that you think you need to do then you are succeding in dying to self. Not that you are the one succeding but it is God working in you. It took me a long time to see this but once you do you will be more at peace with yourself.

I know most don't agree with what I am going to say here but the apostles all were teachers to the Israelites, they taught the Israelites New Covenant because this was what was promised to them. The New Covenant has do's and don'ts attached to it. This is what confuses us. We have to rightly divide the word of truth. Paul came to see things a little different after a little while when God showed him the Mystery that applies to both Jew's and Gentiles and it includes what I said about God working in you. It is no longer I that do any works but God working in me. I will send you a link to an article in a pm about this if you don't mind? 

My Uncle got sick and came to stay with me till he was able to go it on his own. The preacher and his wife came to see him while he was with me. The preachers wife was bragging on me for taking care of my uncle. I said, "I do not take any credit for anything, it is God doing the works not me". She said, yes, but you have to let him". I said, "I don't have to LET God do anything, I'm not that powerful". She said, "God can't work in you if you don't let him".  :eek:

CHB