Author Topic: Hebrews 6:4-8 Fall Away, Cannot Be Renewed  (Read 2570 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 8820
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Hebrews 6:4-8 Fall Away, Cannot Be Renewed
« on: November 28, 2010, 09:23:54 PM »
(NIV)

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age

6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.

8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Assertion: apostates will burn in hell.

(thanks to Aleax for contribution)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2010, 02:24:49 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 8820
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: Hebrews 6:4-8
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2010, 09:25:10 PM »
Shawn said;

These verses brought me much grief in my walk.  There was a time when I gave up trying.  I was frustrated by the process and my inability to live by the law.  This was long before I understood relationship, grace and living by the Spirit.  When I came back to my faith these verses brought me much heart ache.  I don't know if I ever got a good answer on what they mean.  But, my mother stated something to the effect of, "Son, the fact that you want Christ means you are not unsaveable".  "The desire to serve Christ only comes from him".

I found much solace in that. 
 
 
 
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline WhiteWings

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 12654
  • Gender: Male
  • Yahshua heals
    • My sites
Re: Hebrews 6:4-8
« Reply #2 on: November 28, 2010, 11:01:13 PM »
Like most verses that don't sound URish this one sounds more like like ED than ET.
The land is burned. How long that burning last I don't know but the verse surely doesn't hint that the land will burn for ever.

I think there is a hidden key in verse 7.
The farmers have no control over the rain. It's a gift from God.
Rain produces good crops.
Absence of rain produces bad crops/weed.

So the state of the land is not/only partly to blame on the farmers.

Is this similar to "No one can come to me  unless Father draws you"?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 11244
Re: Hebrews 6:4-8
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2010, 12:55:48 AM »
Quote
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age

I'm not sure how this could happen, except maybe under extraordinary circumstances--extreme mental and physical pressure, but even then, I'm not sure it could happen.

Notice how it says 'tasted' because that is all we get in this age, a taste, an earnest, a downpayment of what is to come.

Notice how it also references the powers of the age to come.  Whatever power we have experienced belongs to the next age, not this one.

But, once one has tasted the glory of God, how could he ever turn away from that?

Perhaps the Apostle is just making a point for emphasis of the weightiness of the calling of God--because he goes on to say:


9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

 10For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.


--Heb 6




Offline Pierac

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1377
  • Gender: Male
Re: Hebrews 6:4-8
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2010, 02:53:22 AM »
(NIV)

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age

6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.

8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Assertion: apostates will burn in hell.
(thanks to Aleax for contribution)

Read the text in context...
NET Bible Heb 6:4  For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5  tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, 6  and then have committed apostasy,6 to renew them again to repentance, since7 they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again8 and holding him up to contempt.

6 tn Or "have fallen away."

7 tn Or "while"; Grk  "crucifying...and holding." The Greek participles here ("crucifying...and holding") can be understood as either causal ("since") or temporal ("while").

8 tn Grk  "recrucifying the son of God for themselves."

It is a difficult passage indeed! However, we have examples of this in other passages as well!

1Co 5:1  It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2  You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. 3  For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4  In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5  I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Fallen away indeed! Yet saved in the day of the Lord!
Paul

Offline shawn

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1584
Re: Hebrews 6:4-8
« Reply #5 on: December 03, 2010, 07:07:35 AM »
(NIV)

4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,

5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age

6 and who have fallen[c] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

7 Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God.

8 But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

Assertion: apostates will burn in hell.
(thanks to Aleax for contribution)

Read the text in context...
NET Bible Heb 6:4  For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5  tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, 6  and then have committed apostasy,6 to renew them again to repentance, since7 they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again8 and holding him up to contempt.

6 tn Or "have fallen away."

7 tn Or "while"; Grk  "crucifying...and holding." The Greek participles here ("crucifying...and holding") can be understood as either causal ("since") or temporal ("while").

8 tn Grk  "recrucifying the son of God for themselves."

It is a difficult passage indeed! However, we have examples of this in other passages as well!

1Co 5:1  It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and immorality of such a kind as does not exist even among the Gentiles, that someone has his father's wife. 2  You have become arrogant and have not mourned instead, so that the one who had done this deed would be removed from your midst. 3  For I, on my part, though absent in body but present in spirit, have already judged him who has so committed this, as though I were present. 4  In the name of our Lord Jesus, when you are assembled, and I with you in spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus, 5  I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Fallen away indeed! Yet saved in the day of the Lord!
Paul


Thank you Paul for this post.  It was very helpful.

Offline marie glen

  • Bronze
  • *
  • Posts: 1013
  • Gender: Female
  • HiS perfect intent? Besides paradise & perfection?
    • My profile on Bubblews
Re: Hebrews 6:4-8 Fall Away, Cannot Be Renewed
« Reply #6 on: December 03, 2010, 08:34:30 PM »
Also concerning impossibilities:

Matthew 19:24-26 "And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, "Who then can be saved?" But Jesus looked at them and said to them, "With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
"If a stranger enters the room & all are talking in strange tongues, how will they understand?"

"Who is This!? That even the wind and the waves obey Him?" ~ Mt 8:27

Offline Universalist Catholic

  • 300
  • *
  • Posts: 405
Re: Hebrews 6:4-8 Fall Away, Cannot Be Renewed
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2011, 09:01:40 AM »
Bible threatenings explained
Quote
Now with this is mind, let us look at this passage in the book addressed to the Hebrews. Are you a Hebrew? Even if you are of the religion of modern Judaism, it does not make one a "Hebrew." If you are not a Hebrew, be careful about applying this scripture to yourselves or anyone else. Secondly, this letter was specifically written to Hebrews living at a very crucial time in Christian history. The range of dates for its writing ranges from 60 A.D. to 90 A.D.. Most scholars believe it to be written just before the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.. If that is the case, then the parallel the writers makes to the 40 years the children of Israel seeing God's work in the wilderness and the trial Jewish believers were going through at that time is very interesting. (Heb. chapter 3) If this letter was written near 70 A.D., then we are approaching a time period of around 40 years after the crucifixion.