Author Topic: Hebrews 6:4-6  (Read 3918 times)

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Nil Recurring

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Hebrews 6:4-6
« on: July 15, 2011, 12:08:31 AM »
Net Bible

6:4 For it is impossible in the case of those who have once been enlightened, tasted the heavenly gift, become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 6:5 tasted the good word of God and the miracles of the coming age, 6:6 and then have committed apostasy, to renew them again to repentance, since they are crucifying the Son of God for themselves all over again and holding him up to contempt.



This seems to speak specifically to those who are Christians and who have fallen away. Could this be taken to mean that those who become Apostate will not rule with Christ in His kingdom?

Offline Aleax

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #1 on: July 15, 2011, 12:23:32 AM »
Could this be taken to mean that those who become Apostate will not rule with Christ in His kingdom?

Yepp, for humans it's impossible to renew them because they don't want to be renewed. However, with God, all things are possible.
Behold, I make a few things new.

The Plan of The Ages: God's Unfailing Love Revealed in the Cross

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #2 on: July 15, 2011, 12:33:02 AM »


The Lord said it is impossible; so they never had it in the first place.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #3 on: July 15, 2011, 01:17:51 AM »
How about this . . . what if it's saying . . .once God's dna is in you, there IS NO FALLING AWAY . . .it's IMPOSSIBLE not only to renew them, but for them to fall away in the first place.  That's what being born again does, it allows you to "see" the principles of how the kingdom works and one of the greatest things isn't that the person was never saved, it's that regardless of what the person's mind does, it will never change the irreversable experience that God's DNA spiritually is now living and moving "in" us.  Only the carnal mind would project an image to try to reverse the irreversable.  The person doesn't fall away from God.  No matter where we are, he is there.  Wasn't it David that even said "When I'm in hell, you are there."  When we grow into an ascended place with him, it's imipossible for us to separate him from us, just as it's impossible for him to renew us back to him . . . . it's an irrevokable bond.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #4 on: July 15, 2011, 01:23:11 AM »


If God is in Hell with David and God is in Heaven then Hell is in Heaven!

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2011, 02:09:16 AM »
Hell is heaven's tool.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2011, 02:31:53 AM »
How about this . . . what if it's saying . . .once God's dna is in you, there IS NO FALLING AWAY . . .it's IMPOSSIBLE not only to renew them, but for them to fall away in the first place.  That's what being born again does, it allows you to "see" the principles of how the kingdom works and one of the greatest things isn't that the person was never saved, it's that regardless of what the person's mind does, it will never change the irreversable experience that God's DNA spiritually is now living and moving "in" us.  Only the carnal mind would project an image to try to reverse the irreversable.  The person doesn't fall away from God.  No matter where we are, he is there.  Wasn't it David that even said "When I'm in hell, you are there."  When we grow into an ascended place with him, it's imipossible for us to separate him from us, just as it's impossible for him to renew us back to him . . . . it's an irrevokable bond.

 :thumbsup: :bigGrin: Hey friend you have eyes to see!
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2011, 02:32:31 AM »
Hell is heaven's tool.

Amen and Glory! :bigGrin:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2011, 07:35:40 AM »


How about this . . . what if it's saying . . .once God's dna is in you, there IS NO FALLING AWAY . . .it's IMPOSSIBLE not only to renew them, but for them to fall away in the first place.  That's what being born again does, it allows you to "see" the principles of how the kingdom works and one of the greatest things isn't that the person was never saved, it's that regardless of what the person's mind does, it will never change the irreversable experience that God's DNA spiritually is now living and moving "in" us.  Only the carnal mind would project an image to try to reverse the irreversable.  The person doesn't fall away from God.  No matter where we are, he is there.  Wasn't it David that even said "When I'm in hell, you are there."  When we grow into an ascended place with him, it's imipossible for us to separate him from us, just as it's impossible for him to renew us back to him . . . . it's an irrevokable bond.


Although we are currently "members in particular" of the body of Christ, mere "parts" of the whole, functioning "by measure" within each of our gifts and callings, yet within each one of us is contained the blueprint of the totality of Christ and there is the potential to raise up out of our spiritual DNA the reproduction of ALL THAT CHRIST IS! 

The manifest sons of God are those who out of the Christ life within them grow up into the fullness of Christ, not in measure, but in the fullness of Himself.  These become perfect reproductions within themselves of Jesus Christ, the firstborn Son of God! 

These sons are individually exactly like Him in the totality of His mind, wisdom, understanding, nature, glory, and power!  With these sons it does not take a whole body of people, as in the church, to equal Christ each one equals Christ. 

That is the difference between the church realm and MANIFEST SONSHIP.  When you have 144,000 of these sons you have 144,000 actual reproductions of Jesus not 144,000 "parts" that "corporately" reproduce Him.

For when we "see" Him we will be like Him.

Offline Eduard

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2011, 09:31:58 PM »
Micah 7:7

But as for me, I will look to the Lord; I will wait for the God of my salvation; my God will hear me.

Offline Aleax

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2011, 10:51:24 PM »


The Lord said it is impossible; so they never had it in the first place.

How is it possible that a person, who has

a] been enlightened
b] tasted the heavenly gift
c] become a partaker of the Holy Spirit
d] tasted the good word of God
e] and the miracles of the coming age

can be one who's never been truly saved in the first place?

It is not my intention to argue against you. I'm just trying to learn.
Behold, I make a few things new.

The Plan of The Ages: God's Unfailing Love Revealed in the Cross

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #11 on: July 16, 2011, 11:17:26 PM »


Actually, that's just how I read the Scripture.
The Lord said it's impossible so I just concluded that it never happened.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #12 on: July 16, 2011, 11:39:11 PM »


Perhaps there are some even here that are living testimony to that.
No matter how hard they try they just can't go back to the ways of the world. At least not for long.
For they have been changed and their citizenship is now in heaven.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2011, 01:15:48 AM »
 :grin: :HeartThrob: :thumbsup:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #14 on: July 17, 2011, 01:36:23 AM »


Oh! how He loves us, Micah.



John 10:28;
I give them eternal life, they will never be lost, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Offline sheila

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2011, 03:59:38 AM »

    The Word of God is a two-edged sword....Luke 6;2 and45,  the tree and it's fruit.......the good

     man brings good things out of the good  stored up in his heart ,and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart

     For out of the overflow of the heart,the mouth speaks

       Beautiful fruit shown here from a good tree.. by those with good stored in their heart re;Hebrews 6;4-6

.see how the 'word of God' divides with two edges?  see how the evil heart speaks condemnation?

     Jesus said, 'the commandment was unto life'



Offline CrossoverManiac

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #16 on: July 20, 2011, 06:22:15 AM »
http://revealingthesavior.blogspot.com/2011/04/beyond-repentance.html

I don't think he's a universalist, but I like the explanation he gives for the Bible verse.

Tell me what you think.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #17 on: July 20, 2011, 06:48:12 AM »
http://revealingthesavior.blogspot.com/2011/04/beyond-repentance.html

I don't think he's a universalist, but I like the explanation he gives for the Bible verse.

Tell me what you think.

I like it.  Rightly dividing   :thumbsup:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #18 on: July 20, 2011, 07:24:34 AM »


There's only one Way to the Father Christ is it!

Offline jabcat

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #19 on: July 20, 2011, 07:58:18 AM »
http://revealingthesavior.blogspot.com/2011/04/beyond-repentance.html

I don't think he's a universalist, but I like the explanation he gives for the Bible verse.

Tell me what you think.

Even though the Jewish Christians were no longer under the Law, many of their customs and beliefs kept drawing them back to act as if they were still under the Law.  I see the writer you reference addressing that, and IMO, it's important to remember "who" and "about what" is primarily being addressed.    I'm still not sure about the "impossible to renew them" part, and I personally believe there's probably more to take into account, but I do like the context within your post - seems it's a good start on coming to a "rightly dividing" perspective.  Keep digging.   :thumbsup:   
« Last Edit: July 20, 2011, 08:08:33 AM by jabcat »
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Nathan

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2011, 04:20:08 PM »
Hebrews 10:26-27 (CSB)
26 For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries.


This used to be a verse I would frequent when defending the now inaccurate fact that you could lose your salvation.  I must say, I do love the way this is worded, especially verse 27. 

Question . . .when we sin . . .how many of us are doing it deliberately?  Doesn't it take a conscious decision on our part in the first place?  Isn't that what Paul was also adressing with the infamous passage "I know what I "should" do and don't, and I know what I "shouldn't" do and do it anyway . . ."  Was he not making deliberate decisions against his better judgment?  We all do it all the time.  So . . .is there now no forgiveness for us either?  It goes back to "I can do whatever I want, but not everything I do is beneficial to me . . ."  In other words . .there are consequences for our bad decisions.  Are we now doomed forever?  Absolutely not.  But you also need to know that because we allow the carnality in us to influence our decisions, that sets us up for a fire experience to purge, to consume that adversarial nature (remember . . ."satan" literally means "adversary") with in us.  The focus isn't about falling away from God.  It's about being restored back to the Father.

There's another passage that "appears" to say something that really is another misleading assumption by most.

Matt 13:41ff:
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, *let him hear.

It "appears" to be saying the sinners are thrown into hell and the saints will finally shine.  Yes?
Has it ever occurred to anyone that perhaps the law-breakers and the righteous that shine forth may be one an the same?  There's another furnace mentioned in Daniel as well. And it was law breakers that were put in it . . .bound . . .it was the fire that burned away that which bound them and they walked out not just "alive" but news their experience spread across the land as lightning flashes from the east to the west . . .their faithfulness "shined forth as the sun".

That's what our furnace experiences is all about. That's what Jesus' commssion included . .setting the captives free. We've been taught that "while" God throws 99% of us in hell, the rest will shine forth as the sun . . .aren't the righteous "already" supposed to be shining forth anyway?  In our fleshly state, we are drawn to the pain of the furnace.  Remember Peter was rebuked for that kind of thinking when Jesus began explaining to his disciples that he was to go to Jerusalem to die, be bured and rise again.  Peter interrupted, or tried to interrupt his plan and Jesus rebuked him . .called him satan even!!!  Why?  Because all Peter's mind heard was . . .Jesus was going to die and be buried.  Peter never realized that the actual plan was for Jesus to overcome death . . .to bring us resurrection . . . and that's how our carnal minds work, we can't seem to comprehend the true purpose of the furnace experiences . . . we think that if we're good, we'll avoid the fire.  The truth is, if you're born in the flesh at all, you are destined to go through the fire.

In this world, you will have trials and tribulation, BUT  . .be of good cheer . . I've over-come the world.


waitinontheLamb

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Re: Hebrews 6:4-6
« Reply #21 on: August 08, 2011, 05:08:05 AM »
Hebrews 10:26-27 (CSB)
26 For if we deliberately sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire about to consume the adversaries.


This used to be a verse I would frequent when defending the now inaccurate fact that you could lose your salvation.  I must say, I do love the way this is worded, especially verse 27. 

Question . . .when we sin . . .how many of us are doing it deliberately?  Doesn't it take a conscious decision on our part in the first place?  Isn't that what Paul was also adressing with the infamous passage "I know what I "should" do and don't, and I know what I "shouldn't" do and do it anyway . . ."  Was he not making deliberate decisions against his better judgment?  We all do it all the time.  So . . .is there now no forgiveness for us either?  It goes back to "I can do whatever I want, but not everything I do is beneficial to me . . ."  In other words . .there are consequences for our bad decisions.  Are we now doomed forever?  Absolutely not.  But you also need to know that because we allow the carnality in us to influence our decisions, that sets us up for a fire experience to purge, to consume that adversarial nature (remember . . ."satan" literally means "adversary") with in us.  The focus isn't about falling away from God.  It's about being restored back to the Father.

There's another passage that "appears" to say something that really is another misleading assumption by most.

Matt 13:41ff:
The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. "Then THE RIGHTEOUS WILL SHINE FORTH AS THE SUN in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, *let him hear.

It "appears" to be saying the sinners are thrown into hell and the saints will finally shine.  Yes?
Has it ever occurred to anyone that perhaps the law-breakers and the righteous that shine forth may be one an the same?  There's another furnace mentioned in Daniel as well. And it was law breakers that were put in it . . .bound . . .it was the fire that burned away that which bound them and they walked out not just "alive" but news their experience spread across the land as lightning flashes from the east to the west . . .their faithfulness "shined forth as the sun".

That's what our furnace experiences is all about. That's what Jesus' commssion included . .setting the captives free. We've been taught that "while" God throws 99% of us in hell, the rest will shine forth as the sun . . .aren't the righteous "already" supposed to be shining forth anyway?  In our fleshly state, we are drawn to the pain of the furnace.  Remember Peter was rebuked for that kind of thinking when Jesus began explaining to his disciples that he was to go to Jerusalem to die, be bured and rise again.  Peter interrupted, or tried to interrupt his plan and Jesus rebuked him . .called him satan even!!!  Why?  Because all Peter's mind heard was . . .Jesus was going to die and be buried.  Peter never realized that the actual plan was for Jesus to overcome death . . .to bring us resurrection . . . and that's how our carnal minds work, we can't seem to comprehend the true purpose of the furnace experiences . . . we think that if we're good, we'll avoid the fire.  The truth is, if you're born in the flesh at all, you are destined to go through the fire.

In this world, you will have trials and tribulation, BUT  . .be of good cheer . . I've over-come the world.

What a beautiful post. AMEN!