Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)

[rosered]

 
 
 
   just  confessed   Jesus im NOT worthy of You ...   all I can do now is Praise Him for HIS FAITHFULNESS .. I can boast of nothing  else
 
 
Mat 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.  worthy Blue Letter Bible - Lexicon
 

[Peacetroll]

 The key words are " follow after ME., Jesus Christ, the way, the truth, and the life.   

[meerkat]

PT

Yes, that is right, there has to be belief and following of Christ - do you believe that Gods mercy ends at our physical death?

[chuckt]

i dont seem to always follow, the path gets strange and deserted, im all alone in a feild of wheat but i dont feel like wheat, i must be a tare.

im stubborn i want to do good but i find myself doing the very opposite of what i know is right. im tired, im sick of it, i dont wanna be a tare.

i take one step forward and two steps back, why am i a tare!!! why cant i be wheat??

[willieH]

willieH: Hi Brother C...

Welcome to the "it's hard to understand club" ...bro!   

There are many things which history presents to us as believers, which propose DOUBT and along with that info, ...MANY "BELIVERS" which help to encourage those things...

I personally BELIEVE that GOD is a being which is, for sake of a more eloquent way of stating it, ...GOOD for His Word...and His WORD says that if we SEEK with ALL our Hearts, we WILL FIND... (Jer 29:13-14)

WHAT will we FIND?  ...Him...  Once we FIND Him... from that point, it is HIS CALL as to the depth and capacity of Him that shall be REVEALED to us... for we can only KNOW in PART while we are SINNERS and MORTAL...

Only when we "put on" IMMORTALITY and INCORRUPTION, can the fullness of GOD be REVEALED to us... for only when DEATH is DESTROYED COMPLETELY ...IN US... can LIFE and INCORRUPTION thereby PERMEATE us...

why do people throw out "" a good tree cant bear bad fruit and a bad tree can bear good fruit""

does that really mean what people say? i do both good and bad so whats up??

i have good works and bad works, i bear good fruit and bad fruit, WHATS UP??

Might I try to explain YOU, to YOU brother Chuck...    For it is the SAME EXPLANATION that explains ME as well, and ALL other human beings that have ever been...

The "GOOD TREE" (wheat) is CHRIST... IN YOU...

The BAD TREE (tare) is YOU ...IN YOU...

This is why WE must DIMINISH (IN US becoming NOTHING) and CHRIST must ...BECOME... more (IN US becoming EVERYTHING)...

do the ones whom use this verse every do any of these things:

Of course they do, but as is the case with our dear brother dusty... they do not see that there are TWO portions within them,  (same lump)... one is MAN/FLESH/ADAM, bound for DESTRUCTION (death), the other is the SON of GOD/SPIRIT/CHRIST which is bound for GLORY (life)...

And more importantly, YHVH is not PARTIAL (nor UNREASONABLE) to any... which means that He holds Himself as responsible to bring the SAME MANIFESTATION of Himself, to the SAME DEGREE, in ALL...

Gal 5:20  Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,

Gal 5:21  Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

The KINGDOM of GOD is NOW!  Those behaviors will find themselves OUTSIDE the Kingdom of GOD, are not IN the Kingdom of God...  The "they which do" is the "they" within each of us...  ONLY CHRIST inherits the Kingdom of GOD, and it is HE which brings ALL to the foot of the Father...

We, just happen to be the fortunate LOVED ONES of CHRIST, which are enjoined by HIS WORK, and thereby BLESSED by the FATHER because of HIM and HIS OVERCOMING ...IN US...  NOT because we "overcame" of ourselves...

The KINGDOM of GOD is LIFE... the KINGDOM of adversity (satan) is DEATH...

DEATH (and its noted behaviors above) shall not have PART (inherit) in the KINGDOM of LIFE (GOD)... NOW (in this life) or EVER (in Eternity)...

JESUS said:  I AM [the WAY, the TRUTH and the] LIFE...

You can take ALL the notations in this statement, INDIVIDUALLY... CHRIST is LIFE...  CHRIST is the WAY... CHRIST is the TRUTH... 

CHRIST is the TRUTH, which is the WAY which leads to LIFE...

WE are the WAY of ERROR which leads to DEATH...

And it is IMPOSSIBLE for US to "bring ourselves" to LIFE... IT is done FOR US, ...by HIM...

 peACe

...willieH 

[chuckt]

The "GOOD TREE" (wheat) is CHRIST... IN YOU...

The BAD TREE (tare) is YOU ...IN YOU...

This is why WE must DIMINISH (IN US becoming NOTHING) and CHRIST must ...BECOME... more (IN US becoming EVERYTHING)...

no no no a good tree cant have bad fruit, and i am bad fruit   JK

thanks for the reply W.


what you say above for me nails it and this is why i feel the way i do.

if i went by what I SEE  instead of WHO HE IS and what HE DOES, no wonder so much torment.

inlove
chuckt

[willieH]

im stubborn i want to do good but i find myself doing the very opposite of what i know is right. im tired, im sick of it, i dont wanna be a tare.

i take one step forward and two steps back, why am i a tare!!! why cant i be wheat??

Isn't your confession above, just a paraphrase of Romans 7 (especially vs 15-25) Chuck? 

PAUL noting himself a "tare" 

Ask any counsellor... or therapist... the very first step to correcting a problem, is to recognize it is present within you...  Which amounts to destroying DENIAL... that there IS a problem...

PAUL then notes the ANSWER to the PROBLEM... that CHRIST ...DELIVERS... us from this, ...we DO NOT, do it ourselves...

DESTRUCTION of DENIAL of the PROBLEM: (Rom 7:24) O wretched man THAT I AM! ...WHO... shall ...DELIVER ME from the body of this DEATH?

ANSWER to the PROBLEM: (Rom 7:25) I thank GOD, ...through JESUS CHRIST our Lord. [the deliverer] ...So THEN with the mind I myself serve the LAW of GOD, but with the FLESH, the LAW of SIN.

He no longer DISMISSES the problem as present, but notes that the PROCESS of the REVEALING of CHRIST in him, shall continue... only NOW, he recognizes the task is SUBMISSION to the INNER MAN, not the outer... and that TASK is accomplished by CHRIST, not himself...

So don't give up dear brother...    And KNOW that WE are ALL in this very same battle... 

peACe

...willieH 

[chuckt]

author=willieH link=topic=2591.msg26874#msg26874 date=1210016723]

im stubborn i want to do good but i find myself doing the very opposite of what i know is right. im tired, im sick of it, i dont wanna be a tare.

i take one step forward and two steps back, why am i a tare!!! why cant i be wheat??

Isn't your confession above, just a paraphrase of Romans 7 (especially vs 15-25) Chuck? 

dearest WIllyH.

whos paul?


ok this morning i was really feeling down, and this thread was a good place for me to vent and be sarcastic and show the ""futility"" of the OP.

while i know PT means well and i do like/love him, i really gets me knickers in a twist

if we went by what is seen and what we do wouldnt we all think ourselves tares and become doubting?

i do appreciate your's and larens edifying and it blesses me

i also appoligize for my sarcasm and in causing anyone here to think i was ""falling"" or really considering myself a tare

i really am tired of ther flesh though, but at the same time how blessed am i for the knowledge of who i really am and who CHRIST really IS..WAS..and WILL BE



i think im gonna hang out here at TM for awhile instead of some of the other forums where so much fighting is going on.

And KNOW that WE are ALL in this very same battle

i do and i want PT to understand this too, and i  thank you again!!!!

christ said about the tares: """leave em alone"" 



peace man
chuckt aka euty

[meerkat]

Chuck & Willie,

Thanks both for those posts. I also have those feelings of being a "tare"  and having no hope. And the truth is of ourselves we have no hope - it is only through Christ and the grace of God that there is hope and salvation. You put into words the thoughts that have gone through my mind and so much better than I seem to be able to express.     

[reFORMer]

Abundant and easily understood are the promises of salvation not limited to men.  All, all the world, all flesh, all things, all that I (God) have made, all creation, every creature, every living thing, enemies . . . all these God assures us He will save.  Does any of this apply to these hypothetical serpents seed, tares, cainites?  Though you may find a way to dispose of certain of these irreversible words of God, the bulk remains, a testimony of God's sure salvation for all that is, not merely mankind:

"The Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world." (1 John 4:14)

Jesus is "the Christ, the Savior of the world." (John 4:42)

Jesus "is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world." (1 John 2:2)

Jesus "did not come to judge the world but to save the WORLD." (John 12:47)

"Jesus, was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for EVERYONE." (Heb. 2:9)

"With God NOTHING is impossible." (Luke 1:37)

"At the name of Jesus EVERY knee should bow, of those in heaven, and those on earth, and of those under the earth, and that EVERY tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father." (Phil. 2:10:11)

"God was pleased to have all fullness dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile to Himself ALL THINGS on earth or in heaven, by making peace through His blood, shed on the cross. Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in His sight, without blemish and free from accusation." (Col. 1:19, 21, 22)

In Jesus Christ is "the restoration of ALL THINGS, which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began." (Acts 3:21)

God appointed Jesus "heir of ALL THINGS, and through whom He made the universe." (Heb. 1:2)

"As God gave Jesus authority over ALL FLESH, that he should give eternal life to as many as God gave Him." (John 17:2)  The Father "has given ALL THINGS into Jesus' hands." (John 13:3)

Jesus is "able even to subdue ALL THINGS to Himself." (Phil. 3:21)

Jesus came "that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times he might gather together in one ALL THINGS in Christ, both which are in heaven and which are on earth in Him. In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works ALL THINGS according to the counsel of His will." (Eph. 1:10, 11)

"The Bread of God is He who comes down from heaven and gives Life to the WORLD." (John 6:33)

Jesus commanded us to be like Himself and His Father: "Love your enemies, bless those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you that you may be sons of your Father in heaven." (Matt. 5:44, 45)

"Creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope, because creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God." (Rom. 8:20, 21)

"The Father loves the Son and has given ALL THINGS into His hands." (John 3:35)

Jesus "is the image of the invisible God, the first born over ALL CREATION. For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him." (Co. 1:15, 16)

We are not to "repay evil for evil." (Rom. 12:17

"If anyone's work which he has built endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved yet so as through fire." (1 Cor. 3:14, 15)

"Of Him and through Him and to Him are ALL THINGS, to whom be glory forever. Amen" (Rom. 11:36)

"Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for ALL, and therefore all died." (2 Cor. 5:14)

"When God's judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the WORLD will learn righteousness." (Isaiah 26:9)

"Mercy shall TRIUMPH OVER (exalt over) judgment." (James 2:13)

"Where sin abounded, grace abounded much more." (Rom. 5:20)

"EVERY CREATURE which is in heaven and on the earth and under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I heard saying: blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, forever and ever." (Rev. 5:13)

God's "mercy endures forever." (1 Chron. 16:34)

God's Spirit "will be poured out on ALL FLESH." (Joel 2:28)

"The glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and ALL FLESH shall see it together; for the mouth of the Lord has spoken." (Isaiah 40:5)

God will "open His hand and satisfy the desire of EVERY living thing." (Psalm 145:16)

God is "gracious in ALL His works." (Psalm 145:17)

"The EARTH is the Lord's and ALL its fullness, the world and those who dwell therein." (Psalm 24:1)

God "reveals Himself by those who did not ask for Him: He was found by those who did not seek Him." (Isaiah 65:1)

"The Lord is gracious and full of compassion, slow to anger and great in mercy. The Lord is good to ALL, and His tender mercies are over ALL His works. ALL your works shall praise you, 0 Lord." (Psalm 145:8-10)

"0 You Who hear prayer, to you ALL flesh will come. Iniquities prevail against me; as for our transgressions, you will provide atonement for them." (Psalm 65:2-4)

"Through the greatness of your power your enemies shall submit themselves to you. ALL the earth shall worship You and sing praises to you." (Psalm 66:3, 4)

"There is no God besides Me, a just God and Savior; There is none besides Me. Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath." (Isaiah 45:21-23)

[meerkat]

Reformer,

I LOVE  those verses!!!!

[Peacetroll]

 I am really sorry that you don't realize that Jesus died for the sins of the world meaning every sinner in this present age. Those who are saved in this present age have no threat from the second death, meaning death in the millineum. The point of the millineum is the seperation of the wheat and the tares,  the light from the darkness. The saints are the holy angels.

Malachi 3:17And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him.

 18Then shall ye return, and discern between the righteous and the wicked, between him that serveth God and him that serveth him not.

Revelation 14:3And they sung as it were a new song before the throne, and before the four beasts, and the elders: and no man could learn that song but the hundred and forty and four thousand, which were redeemed from the earth.

 4These are they which were not defiled with women; for they are virgins. These are they which follow the Lamb whithersoever he goeth. These were redeemed from among men, being the firstfruits unto God and to the Lamb.

 5And in their mouth was found no guile: for they are without fault before the throne of God.

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The millineum is the seperation of the wheat and the tares.

Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

Isaiah 65:19And I will rejoice in Jerusalem, and joy in my people: and the voice of weeping shall be no more heard in her, nor the voice of crying.

 20There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die an hundred years old; but the sinner being an hundred years old shall be accursed.

 21And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of theThe tares do not die at 100 because they are being bundled together for burning.

Revelation 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

 You can be ignorant of scripture if you want and think the tare is your flesh if you will but you have been told the truth of these things. God is not mocked and the scriptures can not be broken.  The report is hard to be understood, and is a vexation to the whole world. No surprise, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but spiritual wickedness in high places.

[laren]

[ 1 John 3:8 ]
He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning.

[ Romans 3:23 ]
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4  But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us. 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)


2Th 2:11  And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

2Th 3:14  And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

Psa 35:26  Let them be ashamed and brought to confusion together that rejoice at mine hurt: let them be clothed with shame and dishonor that magnify themselves against me.

Psa 40:14  Let them be ashamed and confounded together that seek after my soul to destroy it; let them be driven backward and put to shame that wish me evil.

Psa 83:17  Let them be confounded and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

Psa 109:29  Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.

Psa 132:18  His enemies will I clothe with shame: but upon himself shall his crown flourish.
 
Jer 23:40  And I will bring an everlasting reproach upon you, and a perpetual shame, which shall not be forgotten.
 
Eze 7:18  They shall also gird themselves with sackcloth, and horror shall cover them; and shame shall be upon all faces, and baldness upon all their heads.

Php 3:19  Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)

Jud 1:13  Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever.

Psa 83:16  Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.

2Th 3:14  And if any man obey not our word by this epistle, note that man, and have no company with him, that he may be ashamed.

2Th 3:15  Yet count him not as an enemy, but admonish him as a brother.


Rev 3:18  I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eye salve, that thou mayest see.

Rom 9:33  As it is written, Behold, I lay in Zion a stumblingstone and rock of offense: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

[laren]

Rom 11:32  For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

Rom 11:33  O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Rom 11:34  For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counselor?

Rom 11:35  Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

Rom 11:36  For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory forever. Amen.

[Peacetroll]

He knows every one of the sheep are born into a world of Darkness, as David said, the valley of the shadow of death, and start out blank and ignorant, and are not able to know what is good. All men fall short of the glory of God, but all who are of God, saint, elect, called, and breath, all Adamic man, are forgiven, and have their time to be harvested, first to last. Christ the first fruits, we who are a part of the wave offering, then the body of man, the breath, in the millinuem.
 God will not impute sin to His Spirit and His breath because they are why He came here and died miseably, because there is none good, yet He would not that any of His should perish. He is a just God and a Saviour!

Romans 4:7Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered.

 8Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 9Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness.

[Peacetroll]

 You came back at me with many quotations from various epistles of Paul. Paul is a parable hard to be understood by the gentiles that there might be an elect of the gentiles.
Why Peter said of the teaching of Paul what he did, and you know what he said.
 You had best get a grip on what Jesus said, and on the scriptures of the old testament which speak of Him, and get off the unstable ground you are on taking what you think Paul said over what Jesus Christ said.
 It is not the gospel of Paul that will make you wise, free, and give you eternal life, but the gospel of Jesus Christ!

[reFORMer]

  These Cainites, Serpents Seed Company, Tares, Children of the Devil must be proven to not be some of "the All," not of "all the world," not to have "flesh" or be some of the "all flesh," to not be something of "all things," nothing of "all things (that) were made by [God,] and without Him was nothing made that was made," not anything of "all creation," not one of "every creature," never alive along with "every living thing," not "enemies" in order for them not to be among "the saved."

You have attempted unsuccessfully to redefine with a a narrow unbiblical definition just one word, the "world."  "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son . . . " 

What about the rest?  You must also prove they have no knees and no tongues, for, "There is no God besides Me, a just God and Savior; There is none besides Me. Look to Me and be saved, all you ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. I have sworn by Myself; the word has gone out of My mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, that to me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall take an oath." (Isaiah 45:21-23)

[laren]

You came back at me with many quotations from various epistles of Paul. Paul is a parable hard to be understood by the gentiles that there might be an elect of the gentiles.
Why Peter said of the teaching of Paul what he did, and you know what he said.
 You had best get a grip on what Jesus said, and on the scriptures of the old testament which speak of Him, and get off the unstable ground you are on taking what you think Paul said over what Jesus Christ said.
 It is not the gospel of Paul that will make you wise, free, and give you eternal life, but the gospel of Jesus Christ!

Psa 83:2  For, lo, thine enemies make a tumult: and they that hate thee have lifted up the head.

enemy:

H341
אויב    איב
'ôyêb  'ôyêb
o-yabe', o-yabe'
Active participle of H340; hating; an adversary: - enemy, foe.


Psa 83:3  They have taken crafty counsel against thy people, and consulted against thy hidden ones.

Psa 83:13  O my God, make them like a wheel; as the stubble before the wind.
 
Psa 83:14  As the fire burneth a wood, and as the flame setteth the mountains on fire;

Psa 83:15  So persecute them with thy tempest, and make them afraid with thy storm.

Psa 83:16  Fill their faces with shame; that they may seek thy name, O LORD.

seek

H1245
בּקשׁ
bâqash
baw-kash'
A primitive root; to search out (by any method; specifically in worship or prayer); by implication to strive after: - ask, beg, beseech, desire, enquire, get, make inquisition, procure, (make) request, require,

Psa 83:17  Let them be confounded and troubled forever; yea, let them be put to shame, and perish:

[laren]

Something to consider: 

Ezekiel 28:1 And the Word of Jehovah was to me, saying,

2 Son of man, say to the ruler of Tyre, So says the Lord Jehovah, Because your heart is lifted up, and you have said, I am a god, I sit in the seat of gods, in the heart of the seas; yet you are a man, and not God, though you give your heart as the heart of gods.

3 Behold, you are wiser than Daniel. Every one of the secret things are not hidden to you.

4 With your wisdom and with your understanding you have made riches for yourself, and have worked gold and silver into your treasuries.

5 By your great wisdom, by your trade you have multiplied your riches, and your heart is lifted up because of your riches.

6 So the Lord Jehovah says this: Because you have given your heart as the heart of gods,

7 behold, so I will bring on you awesome strangers of the nations. And they shall draw their swords against the beauty of your wisdom and will defile your splendor.

8 They will cause you to go down to the Pit, and you shall die the deaths of the slain in the heart of the seas.

9 Saying, do you say, I am of the gods before him who strikes you? But you are a man, and not God, in the hands of him who pierces you.

10 You shall die the deaths of the uncircumcised, by the hand of strangers. For I have spoken, says the Lord Jehovah.

11 And the Word of Jehovah was to me, saying,

12 Son of man, lift up a lament over the king of Tyre, and say to him, So says the Lord Jehovah: You seal the measure, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.

13 You have been in Eden, the garden of God. Every precious stone was your covering; the ruby, the topaz, and the jasper, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the turquoise, and the carbuncle, and gold; the workmanship of your tambourines and of your flutes in you. In the day you were createdT, they were prepared.

14 You were the anointed cherub that covers, and I had put you in the holy heights of God, where you were. You walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Now this is interesting, The perfect anointed cherub that was in the garden of Eden with God that fell.

This can only be the serpent.

But don't it say that he is only a man?

Isn't the only man in Eden Adam?

15 You were perfect in your ways from the day you were created, until iniquity was found in you

16 By the multitude of your trade, they filled your midst with violence, and you sinned. So I cast you defiled from the height of God, and I destroyed you, O covering cherub, from among the stones of fire.

17 Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; you corrupted your wisdom because of your splendor. I have cast you to the ground.

Isn't that what happened to the serpent?

(Gen.3:14 upon thy belly shalt thou go)

I will put you before kings, that they may see you.

18 By the host of your iniquities, by the iniquity of your trade, you have defiled your holy places. So I brought a fire from your midst and it shall devour you, and I will give you for ashes on the earth in the sight of all who see you.

19 All who know you among the peoples shall be appalled at you. You shall be terrors, and you will not be forever.

20 And the Word of Jehovah was to me, saying,

21 Son of man, set your face against Sidon and prophesy against her,

22 and say, So says the Lord Jehovah, Behold, I am against you, O Sidon, and I will be glorified in your midst. And they shall know that I am Jehovah when I have done judgments in her and shall be sanctified by her.

23 And I will send a plague into her, and blood into her streets. And the slain will fall in her midst by the sword, on her from all around. And they shall know that I am Jehovah.

24 And there will not be a pricking brier or a painful thorn to the house of Israel any more from all who surround them, those who hate them. And they shall know that I am the Lord Jehovah.

25 So says the Lord Jehovah: When I have gathered the house of Israel from the peoples among whom they are dispersed, and have been sanctified in them in the sight of the nations, then they shall dwell on their land which I have given to My servant Jacob.

26 And they shall dwell in it securely and shall build houses and plant vineyards. Yes, they shall dwell securely, when I have done judgments on all those who hate them round about them. And they shall know that I am Jehovah their God.

Isaiah 14:1 For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will still choose Israel, and settle them in their own land. The strangers will be joined with them, and they will cling to the house of Jacob.

2 Then people will take them and bring them to their place, and the house of Israel will possess them for servants and maids in the land of the LORD; they will take them captive whose captives they were, and rule over their oppressors.

3 It shall come to pass in the day the LORD gives you rest from your sorrow, and from your fear and the hard bondage in which you were made to serve,

4 that you will take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say: "How the oppressor has ceased, The golden city ceased!

5 The LORD has broken the staff of the wicked, The scepter of the rulers;

6 He who struck the people in wrath with a continual stroke, He who ruled the nations in anger, Is persecuted [and] no one hinders.

7 The whole earth is at rest [and] quiet; They break forth into singing.

8 Indeed the cypress trees rejoice over you, [And] the cedars of Lebanon, [Saying,] 'Since you were cut down, No woodsman has come up against us.'

9 "Hell from beneath is excited about you, To meet [you] at your coming; It stirs up the dead for you, All the chief ones of the earth; It has raised up from their thrones All the kings of the nations.

10 They all shall speak and say to you: 'Have you also become as weak as we? Have you become like us?

11 Your pomp is brought down to Sheol, [And] the sound of your stringed instruments; The maggot is spread under you, And worms cover you.'

12 " How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! [How] you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!

13 For you have said in your heart: 'I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God; I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;

14 I will ascend above the heights of the clouds, I will be like the Most High.'

15 Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol, To the lowest depths of the Pit.

16 "Those who see you will gaze at you, [And] consider you, [saying:] '[Is] this the man[/u] who made the earth tremble, Who shook kingdoms,

Here again we are taught this is the fall of Satan. He was cut to the ground like the serpent but it also says that he is a man.

John 8:44 "You are of [your] father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and [does not] stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own [resources,] for he is a liar and the father of it.

(Adam was not decieved, but the liar)

Were did the devil kill anyone from the beginning?

Rom 5:12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

It was Adam that brought death unto all from the beginning when he ate the fruit.

The serpent was the liar he told Eve that death wouldn't come if they ate the fruit.

Adam was not deceived

1Ti 2:14  And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.


Could it be that Adam and the serpent are one and the same.

Romans 5:12 Therefore, just as through one man (Adam) sin entered the world, and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men,

1 John 3:11-12For this is the message that you heard from the beginning, that we should love one another, not as Cain who was of the wicked one and murdered his brother. And why did he murder him? Because his works were evil and his brother's righteous.

Genesis 4:1 Now Adam knew Eve his wife, and she conceived and bore Cain.

Cain was of Adam so John is saying Adam is the wicked one (devil).

Jer 9:11And I will make Jerusalem heaps, and a den of dragons

The Dragons here are wicked men.

Matt 3:4-7
Now John himself was clothed in camel's hair, with a leather belt around his waist; and his food was locusts and wild honey. Then Jerusalem, all Judea, and all the region around the Jordan went out to him and were baptized by him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to his baptism, he said to them,"Brood of vipers


Here John called men vipers.

Matt 23:33 Serpents, brood of vipers ! How can you escape the condemnation of hell?

Jesus calls men vipers here.

Satan is the "adversary" and Adam deliberately went against God.

1 Tim.2:14 And Adam was not deceived.


Adam was the adversary of God in Eden, the command was only to him."

[laren]

1Co 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT...

Still no responses from you to my posts...    Just more babble of your own... 

I am really sorry that you don't realize that Jesus died for the sins of the world meaning every sinner in this present age. Those who are saved in this present age have no threat from the second death, meaning death in the millineum. The point of the millineum is the seperation of the wheat and the tares,  the light from the darkness. The saints are the holy angels.

(1)  There is no "millenium" except in THEOLOGIAN theories... it is UNBIBLICAL and NOT of the Word of God dusty...

(2)  This present age?  What is this present age dusty?  When did it commence? And when shall it end?

(3) Saints ARE the Holy Angels?  book, chapter, verse...  The saints ARE messengers (aggelos /#32 strongs)... but if you mean them to be ANGELS, this is quite off base.

(4) The Second Death is for ALL who have participated in THIS LIST (which is ALL): 

(Rev 21:8) But the FEARFUL [all who have "feared"] and UNBELIEVING [all have been CONCLUDED to this state by GOD - Rom 11:32] and the ABOMINABLE [ALL who have done ANYTHING UNHOLY] and MURDERERS [which includes anyone who has been angry with his brother for no good reason] and SORCERERS [which is actually DRUG users or peddlers] and IDOLATORS [anyone who has held ANYTHING above GOD within their days of life] and ALL LIARS [anyone who has born OTHER than truth at any given time - which is ALL] ...SHALL have their part in the LAKE of FIRE and brimstone... 

And what pray tell is the "LAKE of FIRE"?

(Rev 20:14) The LAKE of FIRE, is where DEATH and HELL were cast into = the SECOND DEATH 

(Rev 20:15) ANYONE not found in the book of life was cast into this LAKE of FIRE...

THIS lifetime, dusty... is the LAKE of FIRE... it is where ALL SINNERS - which DIE that "2nd death" have been cast... and certainly DEATH and HELL (the GRAVE) are present in this TIME scenario as well...

CHRIST tasted DEATH (to redeem us from it) for EVERY MAN... (Heb 2:9) The death He died to REDEEM us from, is the FIRST DEATH... (spirit)... He did NOT die FLESHLY death for us... nor to redeem us from it...

The SECOND DEATH is the DEATH of the flesh... which RIGHTLY returns to the DUST in DEATH... but our SPIRIT, which CHRIST "tasted death" FOR... returns to GOD...

ALL are blotted out... by their SIN in the FLESH... And that BLOTTING results in DEATH of the FLESH...

ALL are written in the BOOK of the LAMB's LIFE... in the SPIRIT for which He DIED to write each of us INTO it!

The millineum is the seperation of the wheat and the tares.

There is no "MILLENIUM" dusty... just as there is no "TRINITY", ...just as there is no "RAPTURE"... just as no one is "GOING to HEAVEN", and no one is "GOING to HELL", ...just as there is no "ETERNAL SEPARATION"... just as there is no "FREE WILL"... just as there is no "DECISION for CHRIST"... just as there  is no "SPIRITUAL ISRAEL"... just as there is no "SECOND COMING of CHRIST"... just as there is no "SINNERS PRAYER"... and on, and on, and blah, bl-blah, bl-blah-blah-blah  ... go the false doctrines of Christianity.

Try to FIND any of these in the Bible dusty... you WON'T! 

But you WILL find most ALL these in the various varieties of Christian churches!  :omg:

Revelation 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

You have GOD going back & forth, and REDEEMING then postponing (for 1000yrs)... all misconceptions of SYMBOLIC writing...

You can be ignorant of scripture if you want and think the tare is your flesh if you will but you have been told the truth of these things. God is not mocked and the scriptures can not be broken.  The report is hard to be understood, and is a vexation to the whole world. No surprise, for we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but spiritual wickedness in high places.

Methinks it is YOU which is ignorant of Scripture... NO one is mocking GOD... we are ALL trying to understand... and we are ALL WELL AWARE that the Scripture cannot be broken...

You are correct dusty... the report is HARD to be understood, which is why you are having such difficulty!

SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS in HIGH PLACES... Those HIGH PLACES being the hearts of  MEN (who are the TEMPLES of the HOLY SPIRIT) as they SINFULLY hold their will above GOD's...

It (SPIRITUAL WICKEDNESS) is NOT some omnipresent demon the religious call "satan", that embattles GOD... on some bloody battlefield after some symbolic amount of TIME ("millenium") and which bears NO REASON for occuring as you portray it to occur... making NO SENSE at all...  please... 

There is no "MILLENIUM" dusty... 

Show this term to us in the Word of God...

There IS a symbolic notation of 1000yrs written in The Revelation of JESUS CHRIST, but this symbol, is not as you suppose it to be...

You make it an island of TIME... a LITERAL period of TIME, ...as if it is literally going to occur...

PLEASE EXPLAIN what REASON there is for ...CHRIST to "rule and reign" for 1000 "years", and then let the devil out of his prison to cause more chaos... Then, finally end all this business?  That is a cockeyed, illogical, and ignorant observation to say the least... 

When you clean up a baby (which is what redemption amounts to), ...do you wash his right arm, then come back later after watching the football game, and wash the other arm, ...then go and watch tv for a while, and come back later to wash his face... and after changing the sheets on the bed, ...return to wash his left leg, ...please! 

When GOD delivered the JEWS from BONDAGE... there were no INCREMENTS divided by any periods of TIME!  Their deliverance included ALL the JEWS, and their individual deliverances OCCURED simulataneously!

The SCRIPTURE says EVERY EYE shall see His SALVATION!  Not in broken up "increments"...

(Rev 1:7)  Behold He cometh with clouds and EVERY EYE shall see Him, and they also which pierced Him; and ALL KINDREDS of the earth, shall wail because of Him.

ALL shall behold His majesty SIMULTANEOUSLY... at the conclusion of the LAST DAY:

(Is 52:10)  YHVH hath made bare His Holy arm in the eyes of ALL the nations; and ALL the ENDS OF THE EARTH shall see the SALVATION of OUR GOD.

peACe

...willieH 

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PT... 

Once again, I find myself getting weary of your continuos babble... (it has happened so many time previously, I have lost count)....

Believe what you shall... 

You came back at me with many quotations from various epistles of Paul. Paul is a parable hard to be understood by the gentiles that there might be an elect of the gentiles.
Why Peter said of the teaching of Paul what he did, and you know what he said.
 You had best get a grip on what Jesus said, and on the scriptures of the old testament which speak of Him, and get off the unstable ground you are on taking what you think Paul said over what Jesus Christ said.
 It is not the gospel of Paul that will make you wise, free, and give you eternal life, but the gospel of Jesus Christ!

Plain & simple dusty... YOU misunderstand the Gospel of JESUS CHRIST... as do you misunderstand His Words... and you fare no better with PAUL...

And in this, you evade everyone, and fail to answer even one of us... all you do is continue to yammer useless illogical words, noting verses which do not prove your points... and pretty much, waste time.  I pray for you brother... 

No one here holds PAUL over CHRIST... these are your accusations... and they are based upon YOUR (MIS)UNDERSTANDING of the words of CHRIST, not on the Words of CHRIST...

You must consider the possibility (hard as it may be to do) that it is YOU which is incorrectly observing...

peACe

...willieH 

[chuckt]

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Isa 27:1 In that day the LORD with his sore and great and strong sword shall punish leviathan the piercing serpent, even leviathan that crooked serpent; and he shall slay the dragon that [is] in the sea.

hmmmm the """sea"""

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.


Rev 12:4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.


Isa 9:15 The ancient and honourable, he [is] the head; and the prophet that teacheth lies, he [is] the tail.


Eze 29:3 Speak, and say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against thee, Pharaoh king of Egypt, the great dragon that lieth in the midst of his rivers, which hath said, My river [is] mine own, and I have made [it] for myself.


Isa 19:15 Neither shall there be [any] work for Egypt, which the head or tail, branch or rush, may do.


 

[Peacetroll]

 It is correct that in Adam all die, and in Christ shall all be made alive. The point is right there. All Adamic men must die, and be made alive in the new Adam, Jesus.

 Corinthians 15:21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 Tares are not in Adam, as he is not their father, and God doesn't have any plan for the tares other than to gather them together and at the end of the millineum, eliminate them, and banish Satan and his angels to the outer darkness forever.

 To forgive the world in this age means just that. He could only let Adam out of this death by letting the tares go also. This is not the harvest and they were not rooted out in this dispensation of the trial. Remember the parable.

Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

 You keep refering to these verses from John 1 to justify saying flesh is the tare, since all have fallen short of perfection.

1 John 3:7Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Here is your trump card.

 8He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Here is mine. If you are in Christ you have ceased to do anything in God's eyes, Jesus Christ IS your righteosness, and His , Christ's seed, or earnest as Paul called it remains in you. This is why the breath of God, the Adamic race as a whole, must go through the second death to their salvation, as do the tares to their destruction. The purpose of the  millineum.

 9Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Those with the earnest of Jesus are never to be under the power of the second death.

[chuckt]

so your saying i am of the devil?



Bobby Boucher: Everything is the devil to you, Mama! Well, I like school, and I like football! And I'm gonna keep doin' them both because they make me feel good!


Bobby Boucher: [Bobby runs back out, then back in again] And I like Vicki, and she like me back! And she showed me her boobies and I like them too!


Bobby Boucher: Look Who's on TV mama... it's the devil.


Mama Boucher: That's Nonsense, I Invented Electricity. Ben Franklin Is The Devil!



SERPENT SEED DOCTRINE IS OF THE DEVIL