Author Topic: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)  (Read 31457 times)

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bobf

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2008, 08:38:42 AM »
Jabcat, you gave an excellent scripture.  Just as a good tree can not bring forth bad fruit, nor a bad tree bring forth good fruit,  wheat can not produce poison bread, nor can darnel produce healthy bread, the parables are speaking of the same thing.

Ok lets try that out Peacetroll:

A good tree <---> wheat (people, children of God) ---> good fruit only
A bad tree <---> tares (people, children of devil) ---> bad fruit only ----> will be burned

Ephesans 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 ut God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6  And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus.

A TARE (according to you) is a PERSON who can be identified by his fruit:

What fruit did these PEOPLE bear?
1. walked according to the course of this world
2. according to the prince of the power of the air
3. according to the SPIRIT that now worketh in the CHILDREN of disobedience
4. in the lusts of the flesh
5. the desires of the flesh and mind
6. and were by NATURE the CHILDREN of wrath

BAD FRUIT.  So IF people are TARES then those people are TARES and they are to be burned.

YET:
"you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins"
"and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus"

So you are wrong.

What you fail to recognize is that the SPIRIT or NATURE within a person can be born of God or born of the devil.  The above people walked according to the SPIRIT and NATURE of the CHILDREN of disobedience and CHIDLREN of wrath.

Jesus said "If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham...Ye do the deeds of your father".  Now then, were the above doing the deeds of Abraham?  No, they were doing the deeds of the wicked one.  Then who was their father?  The wicked one.

Yet they were saved.  How?  They were BORN AGAIN.  The seed of Satan within them was destroyed, the Seed of God was planted within them.  No tares turning into wheat.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 09:11:32 AM by bobf »

riverman

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2008, 03:33:52 PM »
Thank you for that link Shibboleth, I just about fell out of my chair!

I had come to the same conclusion from a totally different direction than how Mr. Jones approaches it but his article is much more in depth and fleshes this out so much better than I would have been able to explain it. This definitely underlines my present understanding.

This is the verse that first opened my eyes to this thought;

2Ki 4:42  And there came a man from Baal-shalisha, and brought the man of God bread of the firstfruits, twenty loaves of barley, and full ears of corn in the husk thereof. And he said, Give unto the people, that they may eat.

This link shows the harvest seasons in ancient Israel;

http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/festivals/harvest.htm

Thanks again,

RM
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 03:44:52 PM by riverman »

shibboleth

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2008, 05:08:57 PM »
I notice that PT quotes Mt.13:31-41 but leaves out verses 42-43 which for me anyway, are crucial for understanding these passages.

Mt.13:38 The good seed are the children of the kingdom but the tares are the children of the wicked one. So, as already has been stated, there are two types of seed being planted; one is good seed and one is bad seed. Who these seeds are planted into is unclear at this point, or, how to differentiate them is unclear. [/color]Mt:13:38 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; (Jesus said the fields are ripe and ready for harvest) and the reapers are the angels. This all takes place at the end of the world, which is debatable as to when this takes place, but I won't go into that here.

Mt:13:40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of the world. Could this be the end of my world? The end of my having my own way and yielding myself, through the holy spirit, to God's way?
Mt.13:41 that offend, aThe son of man shall send forth his angels and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things and them which do iniquity. This is one person who is being purged of his iniqity. Did you notice that these tares are in the kingdom?

Mt:13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. These people in vs.42 are the same people in 42, but looks what happens to them in vs. 43.
Mt.13:43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father, Who has ears to hear, let him hear. When do they become righteous? After they have their mind renewed to the truths of God.Yes, I see all men as a mixture of good and evil. It's just that some evil is more apparent than others. We can't see, idolatry, adultery of the heart, coveting, yet, Jesus certainly called them sinful. We tend to judge men by what we see, while Jesus judges by what can't be seen...the hidden fruit only he can see.

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2008, 05:44:56 PM »
 I'm sorry, but I have to take the words of Jesus Christ over any other private interpetations of what people would prefer the truth of things to be.
 Jesus said there were tares. He said they were planted by the Devil. Not my word but His.

Matthew 13:24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

 25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.

 26But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also.

 27So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares?

 28He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up?

 29But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

 30Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
[/color]

 He said they would be gathered at the end of the age and destroyed, by the angels and is backed up by Paul.

Matthew 13:39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.

 
Matthew 13:49
So shall it be at the end of the world: the angels shall come forth, and sever the wicked from among the just,

2 Thessalonians 1:7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:


 I realize that many of you don't want to believe what is going on here, and can not accept the fact there are people in the world who originated spiritually from a different spirit than the Father in heaven. They get hungry , they bleed, they talk, and they harbor an unending emnity toward God our Father, if indeed God the Light, is your father, and toward you therefore.

Either Jesus Christ is the LIVING WORD OF GOD, or He is a  Liar.

Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 John 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

 Listening to any other voice that opposes what He said is foolishness.


Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2008, 05:57:48 PM »
Hi PT
Somethings never seem to change ... :icon_flower:
Around and around we go..again. :laughing7:

We will see in the scriptures what we are given to see..both you and I along with others.... :icon_flower:

You see two different types of individuals and portray it so ..while others see both the natural and spiritual with in ONE....

One will be taken and another LEFT..first the Natural Then the spiritual...FOR we are SPIRIT AND SHED THE NATURAL MAN...

anyway old bud...youll see it your way and others theirs :HeartThrob:

Blessings :icon_flower:




Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

riverman

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2008, 06:24:17 PM »
Wow!

Hi Peacetroll,

You certainly jumped to a lot of conclusions, so since we are currently at a different understanding I am calling Christ a liar? Heaven forbid! The biggest difference I think we have is that I believe the tares are false doctrines and that you believe the tares are flesh and blood people.

I only know of One Creator, the devil has created no one that I am aware of but he certainly has spread lies, false doctrines and has corrupted many. 

Aren't the false, man made doctrines in the church Satan inspired?

Perhaps your understanding of the use of the word "angels" is too narrowly defined, I am sure you know that "messengers" can also be used as a proper translation as well.

Are you trying to say that the elect/chosen will have no role in the harvesting of the Kingdom?

Rom 8:19  For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
 
Heb 11:39  And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
 
Heb 11:40  God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.

I appreciate the feedback but please don't view me as an enemy of Christ. I am seeking a deeper understanding as I am sure you and most others here are doing. If someone claims to have it all figured out my radar goes off like an air raid siren!

No hard feelings here.

RM


bobf

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #31 on: May 01, 2008, 08:19:00 PM »
I'm sorry, but I have to take the words of Jesus Christ over any other private interpetations of what people would prefer the truth of things to be.

You are not taking the words of Christ.  You are purely assuming  that "children" refers to literal people.  That assumption collides with the Word of God.

Here is what Jesus says:
Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Jesus is telling literal people them how to become children of God.  Jesus is sowing good seed in the hearts of people.  Jesus is not telling tares-people how to become wheat-people.  Jesus is not telling wheat-people how to become wheat-people.  Jesus is sowing wheat in a field.

Luke 8:5  A sower went out to sow his seed.

Is the seed people?  No, it's God's Word.

Luke 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.

Can a person be born again?  Yes.  Can a tare turn into wheat?  No.  How is a person born again?  By having seed planted in them and it takes root and grows within them.  That seed is God's Word.

1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 08:26:57 PM by bobf »

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #32 on: May 01, 2008, 08:29:15 PM »
 I don't see any person who is seeking the truth as an enemy of Christ, God decerns where ones heart is from. But if Jesus said there were tares, there are tares. They are the generation Jesus laid the blood of all the righteous, starting with Cain killing Able.
 There are still kenites with us to this day. Hords of them as Paul said.

Galatians 4: 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.


 False doctrine is described this way.

Revelation 12:15And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

 16And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.

 17And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 08:33:53 PM by Peacetroll »
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline willieH

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #33 on: May 01, 2008, 09:09:30 PM »
willieH: Hi PT...  :laughing7:

I realize that many of you don't want to believe what is going on here, and can not accept the fact there are people in the world who originated spiritually from a different spirit than the Father in heaven. They get hungry , they bleed, they talk, and they harbor an unending emnity toward God our Father, if indeed God the Light, is your father, and toward you therefore.

I observe you to be a bit off base in this statement dusty... stating there is more than ONE CREATOR in the process... as you note SOME have a different SPIRITUAL ORIGIN, than do others...

And furthermore, ...that you have quoted the writings of PAUL, essentially means that you endorse and accept them, ...and part of those writings of PAUL, contain this verse which CONTRADICTS what you just stated:

(Col 1:16)  For BY HIM [CHRIST] were ...ALL THINGS CREATED... that ARE in HEAVEN and that ARE in EARTH, visible and invisble, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers:  ALL [not some] THINGS were CREATED BY HIM, and, ...FOR HIM.

This verse also CONTRADICTS your thinking above:

(Heb 12:9)  Furthermore, we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence, shall we not much rather be in subjection to the FATHER OF SPIRITS and live?

This verse notes GOD to be the [one] FATHER of SPIRITS... ALL SPIRITS dusty... for EVERYTHING (as noted in Col 1:16) has its ORIGIN or SOURCE in YHVH... including those "spirits" which you claim find origin in another source (satan)

Another verse CONTRADICTS your words above (and verifies what I just stated):

(John 1:9) That was the TRUE LIGHT which LIGHTETH ...EVERY MAN, that cometh INTO the WORLD...

In this verse are found these words:

1... LIGHTETH ...lighteth - #5461 strongs - LIGHTETH=PHOTIZO=ILLUMINATE or make to SEE.

2...  EVERY ...every - #3956 strongs =EVERY=PAS=ALL

3...  MAN ...man/human beings/people - #444 strongs - MAN=ANTHROPOS=HUMAN BEING

4...  WORLD  ...#2889 strongs - KOSMOS=WORLD/inhabitants/surrounding creation

ALL are "LIT" by the same TRUE (not false) LIGHT dusty... not by another source which you deem to have this same power - satan. 

Either Jesus Christ is the LIVING WORD OF GOD, or He is a  Liar.


 :Yeahright:  YOU herein post YOUR OPINION/INTERPRETATION of the LIVING WORD, and then note that ANY disagreement with that OPINION, is calling CHRIST a "LIAR"... please! :rolleye:  Get a clue bro!  :wacko2:

No one here EVER calls CHRIST a liar... only YOU have stated such words... 

In effect what you have stated is that if we DO NOT OBSERVE as YOU OBSERVE, then... we call CHRIST a LIAR... which are YOUR WORDS, ....not HIS...

Proverbs 30:5
Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

 John 1:14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

 Listening to any other voice that opposes what He said is foolishness.


Matthew 11:29
Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.

I am certain that all who post here, are quite aware of these verses dusty... and are in COMPLETE AGREEMENT with that which is stated within them...

However, ...YOU determine that YOUR OBSERVATION is correct, and deduce others WRONG, by comparing their observation to YOURS, ...NOT, ...to the WORD.

For others OBSERVE the WORD as well, and find difference with YOUR OBSERVATION, ...NOT with the WORD... THEREFORE:

I have stated this before, and most likely shall have to state it MANY MORE TIMES...  :heat:

NO ONE is "right" and NO ONE is "wrong"... ONE is either REVEALED or VEILED in ANY given area of observance.  :dontknow:

Believe what you will...  :wink1:

...willieH  :cloud9:
« Last Edit: May 01, 2008, 10:13:37 PM by willieH »

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #34 on: May 01, 2008, 11:55:27 PM »
Sorrry Willi, you just don't get it. There are tares, and there is wheat, and never the twain shall meet. Paul taught things hard to be understood, as Peter said, and many wrestle with his teachings to their own destruction, taking what they think he said (or others who are men thus prone to falesy or twistings of doctrine), above the words of Christ.  Christ made it abundantly clear who the tares are, children of Satan.  And the field is the earth (not our hearts), it would do some of you good to read the Targum of Palestine, but as is the old saying,..."you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".

 Eve is the mother of all, but Adam is not. Cut and dried, why do you think Balaam said one would arise who would destroy the children of Sheth, the whole Adamic human race? He couldn't be of that same race can he?

As I've mentioned several times, Paul has doctrine 'hard to be understood', in other words, very very easy to misinterpret if you're foundation and belief in Christ' words are not first and foremost over all others.

A darnel will never become a wheat, no more then a bad tree can become a good tree, no more then a vessel of destruction can become a vessel of honor.  All things are pre-planned and will follow a path set long before this Universe was brought into creation.

Peacetroll.

P.S the 'barn' is the future Kingdom, no children of Satan will be admitted, period.
 
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 12:13:13 AM by Peacetroll »
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

bobf

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2008, 04:25:18 AM »
A darnel will never become a wheat

And yet scripture clearly shows people who are children of disobience, children of wrath, becoming children of God, destroying your entire argument. 

Are these people TARES?

Epheisans 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. 6  Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.

Are these people WHEAT bearing the same fruit as TARES or are these TARES becoming WHEAT?  Which PT?

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3  Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 04:46:38 AM by bobf »

meerkat

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2008, 04:35:34 AM »
Pt

What you say does not tie up with scripture though.

Why did Jesus say that "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all [men] unto me." John 12:32

From what I can gather your thinking is that the Kenites as a people are evil and darnel and will be destroyed, they are Satans seed, Adams seed are the wheat and will be saved. That is not what scripture says refer romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.   

Salvation is through Jesus Christ not through Adam. 
Quote
Eve is the mother of all, but Adam is not. Cut and dried,

! Cor 15:22  For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

Scriptures says that it was Adam's sin that brought sin into the world, and the wages of sin is death. Eve and Adam were both tempted by Satan (if the "fruit" that Eve "ate" was having sex with Satan then had Cain-  Satans child, does that mean that Adam who also "ate" of the "fruit" mean that he had sex with Satan as well?)  I think that Satan tempted Adam and Eve with some sort of experience but I don't think that
Satan had sex with Eve. We all inherited Adam's sin. We are all Adam's children, flesh and blood will not inherit the Kingdom of God, you must be born of the Spirit.

1Cr 15:47      The first man [is] of the earth, earthy: the second man [is] the Lord from heaven.   


   1Cr 15:48      As [is] the earthy, such [are] they also that are earthy: and as [is] the heavenly, such [are] they also that are heavenly.   


   1Cr 15:49      And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.


1Cr 15:50      Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

From what I can gather from that is all that relates to the flesh is corrupt and is tares and will be destoyed that is what is of Satan   - what is born of the Spirit will be saved it is wheat.

If you sow to the flesh you will reap destruction, if you sow to the Spirit you will reap life.  The Spirit is life, the flesh is death.

Cain and Abel are a type for  -  Adam the first (physical - death)  Christ the second (spiritual - life) 
 

 

meerkat

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2008, 04:53:26 AM »
why do you think Balaam said one would arise who would destroy the children of Sheth, the whole Adamic human race? He couldn't be of that same race can he?

.....snip.....

Peacetroll.

P.S the 'barn' is the future Kingdom, no children of Satan will be admitted, period.
 

I think the one that arises is Christ (quickened in the Spirit)  and would destroy the children of Sheth, the whole Adamic race (death of the flesh)  flesh does not inherit the kingdom of God

The barn is the future kingdom and you are right any fleshly desires, nature will not be admitted, only the spiritual will survive.

Offline AJ

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2008, 05:58:23 AM »
.


The following are (2) studies from different sites that may shed some additional light:

THAT OLD SERPENT CALLED THE DEVIL AND SATAN
by Barry.c.Hodson
http://www.bibletruthrestored.org/
http://www.bibletruthrestored.org/Theses/Devil_Thesis_-_Revised.pdf

It is a very large study and take awhile to load....be patient.

I also have most of it saved at my site:
http://p199.ezboard.com/fjesusthelightoftheworldfrm38.showMessage?topicID=62.topic

============================================


The Traducer:
http://www.godfire.net/Traducer.html
The Pathfinder
Elwin & Margit Roach


.
"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation"..."Reconciliation"..."Restitution"..."Restoration"..."Immortality"... and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?

Offline chuckt

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2008, 02:34:43 PM »
Isa 66:4 I also will choose their delusions, and will bring their fears upon them; because when I called, none did answer; when I spake, they did not hear: but they did evil before mine eyes, and chose [that] in which I delighted not.
2

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2008, 06:22:38 PM »
Salvation is throught Jesus Christ, it is extended to all men of Adamic origin, who are decended from that breath of life given Adam by God in the beginning.. The children of Adam are born into this world and pass through the valley of the shadow of death, for who is the god of this world? That spirit who made a covenant that has been disannuled by the sacrifice of Christ. We are in the darkness here but we are not of that darkness, even as Christ the Light of the human race shown in that darkness.
 
As for there being no evil there, in the kingdom of God, it is because all that is there is in Christ, the beginning of the creation of God.

Revelation 3:13He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

 14And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

In the end He is Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, and man will be changed to be like Him and see Him as He is, and His Spirit will be all and in all, all the adamic race. In Him is no darkness at all, no, nor ever shall be.

Revelation 22:13
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
Colossians 3:10And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:

 11Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

Ephesians 2:21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

 22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

No Tares will be there.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?


1 John 1:5
This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline willieH

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2008, 06:37:12 PM »
willieH: Hi PT... :hithere:

More of what amounts to as YOUR OPINION below... endeavoring to draw SPIRITUAL conclusions within NATURAL observations...

Sorry dusty... it is YOU which don't "get it"...  :grin:

ALL MEN (human beings are SPIRITS)... AND ...NONE... came forth from a "being" called satan... ALL THINGS find their SOURCE in YHVH...

Sorrry Willi, you just don't get it. There are tares, and there is wheat, and never the twain shall meet. Paul taught things hard to be understood, as Peter said, and many wrestle with his teachings to their own destruction, taking what they think he said (or others who are men thus prone to falesy or twistings of doctrine), above the words of Christ.

No one has "twisted" doctrine, nor put ANYTHING "above" the Words of CHRIST.  I personally RESENT you and your empty judgments... which REFUSE to consider SCRIPTURE... which has been amply set before you.

You, if anyone, refuse to see what is before your eyes...  :thumbdown:

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  Christ made it abundantly clear who the tares are, children of Satan.  And the field is the earth (not our hearts), it would do some of you good to read the Targum of Palestine, but as is the old saying,..."you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink".

 :Yeahright:  The "field" is the earth...  :pointlaugh:  SPIRITUAL BEINGS growing right out of the dirt eh?   :LH:

I cannot believe how you attempt to MINGLE the NATURAL with the SPIRITUAL, then expect others to swallow your potions... :rolleye:  You have been doing this for over 3yrs in my observation alone...

First you suggest we not put other words" above CHRIST's... then you point me to NON SCRIPTURAL dialogue... :rolleye:

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Eve is the mother of all, but Adam is not. Cut and dried, why do you think Balaam said one would arise who would destroy the children of Sheth, the whole Adamic human race? He couldn't be of that same race can he?

It is the Principality of ADVERSITY... which does this to ALL MEN... we are born with the ability to DISOBEY... beginning with the "mother of all"...

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As I've mentioned several times, Paul has doctrine 'hard to be understood', in other words, very very easy to misinterpret if you're foundation and belief in Christ' words are not first and foremost over all others.

CHRIST's Words do NOT disagree with PAUL's... therefore I do not have to choose between them... for they are parallel...

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A darnel will never become a wheat, no more then a bad tree can become a good tree, no more then a vessel of destruction can become a vessel of honor.  All things are pre-planned and will follow a path set long before this Universe was brought into creation.

This nonsense has already been refuted in this thread, particularly by Bobf... you just "don't get it"!  ...doya dusty?   :laughing7:

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P.S the 'barn' is the future Kingdom, no children of Satan will be admitted, period.
 

And YOU are in this EXCLUSIVE CLUB dusty?  WHY?  :dontknow: 

You have yet to note to us all, WHY you are saved and MOST others are not... How arrogant of you...  :thumbdown:

...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2008, 06:54:15 PM »
Willi, all Adamic man will be saved, so you are saying most people in the world are not Adamic? Sadly you seem to be right. Why else would God say this of the end.?

Revelation 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.


Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

jabcat

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2008, 07:01:28 PM »
Brother PT, but is it the end?  Just a little later it says the Tree of Life is for the healing of the nations, and there will be no more curse.  I personally believe in UR.  However I agree, if not for the bigger picture of UR, then annihilation would seem to have some scriptural support. I just don't think it ends there.  My  :2c:.

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2008, 08:02:03 PM »
 The scriptures you used were speaking of the new world, after the evil is eliminated, when Christ is all and in all.  This happens before that.

Revelation 20:10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. [ Cast into outer darkness]

 11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And then what paul said would happen will for this is a judgement of reward.

 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works
 As Paul said;

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts:[ this is the millineum when the tares are exposed because of what spirit or heart they have]
and then shall every man have praise of God.

Revelation 21
 1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

 3And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.


 This is what the above brings about.

Revelation 22
 1And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.

 2In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

 3And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:

 4And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.

 5And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for the Lord God giveth them light: and they shall reign for ever and ever.

 6And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done.

 7Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2008, 08:07:26 PM »
Peacetroll...
Are you saying that these "tares" are human beings living on earth?
And these tares will be destroyed, as in... annihilation, the whole human being spirit and all will be destroyed?

And if this is what you are saying... how do you know who is a tare?
What if your loved ones are tares? or your neighbors...? or yourself?

This picture of God you seem to always be painting isn't a very loving one.


"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Molly

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2008, 08:25:13 PM »
Revelation 21
 1And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

 2And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.





12And he stayed yet other seven days; and sent forth the dove; which returned not again unto him any more.
 13And it came to pass in the six hundredth and first year, in the first month, the first day of the month, the waters were dried up from off the earth: and Noah removed the covering of the ark, and looked, and, behold, the face of the ground was dry.
--Genesis 8





15And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

 16And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

17And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.

--Matt 3




Offline Molly

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2008, 08:35:42 PM »
Isaiah 40:5
And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.





2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
 3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

 4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

--Genesis 1




John 3:19
And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.


Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #48 on: May 02, 2008, 08:41:45 PM »
 It is perfectly loving, for didn't the Good Shepherd lay down His life for the sheep[wheat]? Doesn't He give eternal life to all whom He draws to Himself? All men.?

 Those people who are the tares are not of God,

John 8:46Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

 47He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.

They are the enemies of both God and men. Their spot is not our spot and their rock is not our Rock, and they have no part in Him. They can not change who and what they are.  Not my words but His as you know if you are well founded in the scriptures.

Jeremiah 13:22And if thou say in thine heart, Wherefore come these things upon me? For the greatness of thine iniquity are thy skirts discovered, and thy heels made bare.
 23Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

 All the Adamic race comprises the wheat, the breath of God given to Adam. Jesus will not lose one.

Matthew 18:13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

 14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

2 Peter 3:9
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

 But for the tares, planted by the enemy, there is but one end, ordained by God, that they should be eliminated from the field. Destroyed. Then there will be a new world, and one Lord, and His name, Man, one.

 I know that you disregard what Christ said about this and base your faith on what you believe Paul taught, then disregard what Paul said of this as it does not jive with that one sentence taken out of context by you, not understanding what constitutes a man in God's eyes.

Paul said this about all men.

1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

And he also said this;

2 Thessalonians 1:6Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

 7And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,

 8In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

 


 
 
 
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

bobf

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #49 on: May 02, 2008, 09:18:25 PM »
Jeremiah 13:22 And if thou say in thine heart, Wherefore come these things upon me? For the greatness of thine iniquity are thy skirts discovered, and thy heels made bare. 23Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil.

So the whole house of Israel and Judah are tares?

Jeremiah 13:11 ...so I bound the whole house of Israel and the whole house of Judah to me, declares the Lord.... But they have not listened.'

Why does God ponder how long these tares will remain unclean?

Jeremiah 13:27 ...Woe to you, O Jerusalem!  How long will you be unclean?

A leopard can not change his spots, but God can change his spots.
 
PS: Ephesians still has children of God who were formerly bearing the same fruit as tares.  So were those Ephesians wheat bearing tare-fruit or were they tares turning into wheat?  Which is it PT??
« Last Edit: May 02, 2008, 09:22:50 PM by bobf »