Author Topic: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)  (Read 34852 times)

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Offline sparrow

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #50 on: May 02, 2008, 09:29:09 PM »
PT...

Do you believe these "tares" are human beings?
yes or no.


just yes or no..


"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline willieH

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #51 on: May 02, 2008, 10:02:10 PM »
willieH: Hi PT...  :happygrin:

More NATURAL observations of SPIRITUAL and SYMBOLIC writings...

Willi, all Adamic man will be saved, so you are saying most people in the world are not Adamic? Sadly you seem to be right. Why else would God say this of the end.?

How and WHERE do you deduce this in my post dusty?  ALL (humanity) are in encased in ADAM... ALL (humanity) are encased in CHRIST...

As is NOTED in the SAME VERSE bro!

The FIRST MAN was ADAM (1 Cor 15:47)...

The SECOND MAN was CHRIST (1 Cor 15:47)... Do you really read the Scriptures my friend?

This quotation below finds you roaming aimlessly in the NATURAL, as you think to percieve its meaning...

Quote
Revelation 20:7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

You must observe these verses in the SPIRIT in order to gain understanding dusty...

WHY would GOD process REDEMPTION from ADVERSITY (satan) then allow DECEPTION  (satan) to prevail AGAIN, then bring forth REDEMPTION again?  Please!  This is just simply nonsense...  :megashock:

This whole writing of REVELATION is the REVEALING of JESUS CHRIST in ALL THINGS, as HE is the ALPHA and OMEGA of ALL THINGS, ...from EACH THING's beginning to EACH THING's end...

It is not some "final war" which orthodoxy percieves and YOU (within VEIL) BELIEVE... which takes place in the NATURAL, and is supposed as a FUTURE EVENT ...it is a BATTLE which rages from the BEGINNING of you to the END of you... (and which rages and manifests, in ALL others as well)

The "Millenium" is a MANufactured teaching... and brings with it, the DECEPTION you find yourself amidst...

...willieH  :icon_king:

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #52 on: May 02, 2008, 10:43:08 PM »
Willi, you are blind and deaf to what I post because you have your own idea of the scriptures and think everything is spiritual, when first there is the earthly then the heavenly. You can not grasp that Eve is the mother of all. Adam is not the father of all'
 You simply ignor what you do not understand. You constantly post references to the god of the old testament. What do you call him? YHVH? Who then gave the old testament on the mountain in gross darkness? What say the scriptures?

Galatians 3:19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

Who do the scriptures say that covenant was with?


Isaiah 28:14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

 15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

 16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

 17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

 18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

 19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

 You may stay on that god, and disregard what Christ, who disannulled that covenant by His death after fullfilling all the laws and statutes perfectly, proving that one a liar and murderer has to say,or ignor it as you will.
 If you say you follow Christ, yet cling to that dead covenant and it's mediator who dwells in gross darkness, instead of Christ the Light, that is between you and Him.

 The answer as to whether I believe tares are human beings, yes they are totally carnal human beings, they have no inner man, or spirit from God, and they are not man as God
as God attributes a man to be.  If you are a man to God, then when your body dies your spirit goes back to God who gave it.

What say the scriptures?

Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Do you think Jesus thought His followers were going to expound the truth to actual dogs and swine??????

These apostels were talking about human beings and describing their state in relation to God.

2 Peter 2:12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;

 13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

Jude 1:10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves.

 11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.




 


Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline sparrow

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #53 on: May 02, 2008, 10:56:50 PM »
The answer as to whether I believe tares are human beings, yes they are totally carnal human beings, they have no inner man, or spirit from God, and they are not man as God
as God attributes a man to be.  If you are a man to God, then when your body dies your spirit goes back to God who gave it.

PT, thank you for your answer.

Hope you don't mind another question...
If you were to discover that your beliefs were untrue, that there are no human beings who will be destroyed, how would that make you feel? If your belief about the tares being human beings who have no spirit from God and these "tares" will ultimately be destroyed... if God were to someday show you that was false, and that ALL humans are or will eventually be "wheat" and welcomed into God's Kingdom, how would that change your own views of God? Would that make you happy? Sad? dissapointed? relieved? If you can't answer this question, that's fine... I just thought I'd throw it out there. I'm not trying to force you into a corner. I'm only wondering what it would do to your view of God...

"I knelt to drink,
And knew that I was on the brink
Of endless joy. And everywhere
I turned I saw a wonder there."

If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #54 on: May 03, 2008, 12:01:54 AM »
 Sparrow, I was a UR believer when no one else I knew of was, for a very long time.  In 2005 I had an awakening and comprehended that I was ignoring the words of Jesus Christ for what I thought Paul had said.
 From that time it has been as if floodgates had opened in my understanding of the truth.
Now I understand why we are here, and where we will end up. Why there is so much evil in the world, how it will be eliminated, and what is the true gift of God, knowledge of and faith in Jesus Christ.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

jabcat

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #55 on: May 03, 2008, 12:08:11 AM »
PT, I'm curious.  Who is the god you're referring to in the OT?  It sounds like you're not talking about YWHW Elohim, "Sovereign Lord", but I may be mistaken, as maybe you're more so referring to the new covenant?  Asking for clarification, thanks.  James.
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 12:14:12 AM by jabcat »

Offline willieH

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #56 on: May 03, 2008, 12:34:00 AM »
willieH: Hi PT... :hithere:

Willi, you are blind and deaf to what I post because you have your own idea of the scriptures and think everything is spiritual, when first there is the earthly then the heavenly. You can not grasp that Eve is the mother of all. Adam is not the father of all'

Book, chapter & verse where this is stated PT...  :dontknow:

My perceptions of the Word of God, did not appear yesterday... I have been diligently studying and comparing the Word for 32+yrs.


Quote
You simply ignor what you do not understand. You constantly post references to the god of the old testament. What do you call him? YHVH?

You assume that any understanding OUTSIDE your own is a MISUNDERSTANDING.  How foolish is this?  I shall find correction by the Holy Spirit of GOD, not by dusty, dustprophet, peacetroll or any other name you ficklely and often propose to represent yourself and your fallacies.

I am willieH, always have been, always will be.  I NEVER change my name, because I follow the ONE who NEVER CHANGES His... Do what you will, and believe what you will!  :dontknow:

Because you THINK that I misunderstand, is the deduction of YOUR OPINION as compared to mine... which in itself is founded upon foolishness and ILLOGIC.

PAUL spoke of you and your present philosophy, dusty:  (2 Cor 10:12)  I do not indicate you to be WRONG, I conclude you to be VEILED...

If you would study a little, you would find that the word "LORD" is translated from the Hebrew word for the name of the ALMIGHTY ...YeHoVaH...  Ask any Rabbi who is far more dedicated to this premise, and far deeper into the HISTORY and TRANSLATION of this word and they shall give you the same representation YHVH... The vowels within the letters YHVH, are ENGLISH letters which have been inserted... in order to facilitate PRONUNCIATION...

The GOD of the OLD TESTAMENT, named YHVH is the Father of which JESUS spoke as His own...

Quote
Who then gave the old testament on the mountain in gross darkness? What say the scriptures?

Name the verse, and you shall recieve an answer... dont make me do your work!  :thumbdown:

Quote
Galatians 3:19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

That SEED is planted in ALL MEN... human beings as previously noted by me, in the words KOSMOS and MAN (human beings)... which you continue to conveniently igonore...  :thumbdown:

Do you percieve LAW to be ABOLISHED dusty?  Do you APPROVE of MURDER?  Do you APPROVE of IDOL WORSHIP?  Do you APPROVE of ADULTERY?  Do you APPROVE of THEFT?  COVETING?  Worshiping OTHER GODS?  Get a clue dude... LAW is the basis of RIGHTEOUSNESS... and is NOT DESTROYED, rather is PRACTICED and EXCEEDED BY and in RIGHTEOUSNESS...  JESUS didn't come here to DESTROY anything... He came to REDEEM...

EVIL and its by-products of SIN and DEATH, ...shall EVER serve ETERNALLY to GLORIFY the GOOD, LIFE and LOVE that shall be permeated within HIM in that REALM!

What do you think this whole thing is about man?  Why do you think GOD has had His Children experience EVIL?  For S & G? (shyts & giggles)  :mshock:

This is not a GAME dusty!  :thumbdown:

It is by the comparison of PAIN, suffering, death, darkness, sorrow, ...that the JOY of YHVH is INFINITELY MAGINIFIED!  :boogie: :egyptdance: :reachout: :friendstu:

Quote
Who do the scriptures say that covenant was with?


Isaiah 28:14Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.

 15Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

 16Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste.

 17Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

 18And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

 19From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.


 You may stay on that god, and disregard what Christ, who disannulled that covenant by His death after fullfilling all the laws and statutes perfectly, proving that one a liar and murderer has to say,or ignor it as you will.

Please dusty!  :laughhand:  That CHRIST fulfilled the OLD COVENANT, did not DISANULL it!  (disanull=cease to be)

In His own words:  I have not come to DESTROY the law or the prophets. I am NOT COME to DESTROY, but FULFILL (Matt 5:17)

When my dad sent me to mow the lawn and I did as he commanded, I did not DESTROY His command... I FULFILLED it... I did not ABOLISH His will.. I submitted to it... I became the GOOD and BENEFIT which HE intended for the LAWN... along with HIS desire for ME to coincide with OBEDIENCE and RESPECT of Him and his position in my life... resulting in ALL things concerned as better for it...  :happy3:

Get a clue dusty... get a clue... look past your pride... which instructs me to read dialogue OUTSIDE the Scripture... and try peering into those Scriptures, yourself!  Only this time do that "peering" with the EYES in your HEART, not the ones in your HEAD...

CHRIST showed that OLD COVENANT to be TRUE and VALID by His walk upon the Earth... and brought to us the SPIRITUAL ENLARGEMENT which beforehand was WITHHELD... (from the JEWS)

Such as: Not ONLY shalt thou NOT KILL your brother, thou shalt not even be ANGRY with your brother... for if you are not ANGRY with him, you shall surely not EVEN ...Kill him (put him to DEATH)... rather, you shall seek HIM to be BLESSED, find PROSPERITY... and thrive in FULLNESS of LIFE!

Again above, you herein assign me my beliefs... Please... are you so brash and arrogant as to think you should or could note my heart?

I NEVER - EVER -disregard CHRIST or anything He said or did... I follow Him... You determine that your perception IS the Gospel and that WE should follow that which YOU propose...  :laughing7:   The level of your audacity  parallels the pinnacle and zenith of Babyon...

I could not find you more ridiculous and unfounded than you are... and have made you a deep subject of prayer.  That GOD might lift the scales of delusion which presently VEIL your heart.

Quote
If you say you follow Christ, yet cling to that dead covenant and it's mediator who dwells in gross darkness, instead of Christ the Light, that is between you and Him.

Because I note the name of YHVH who is the ONLY GOD... and ORIGINATOR of the Son, does not negate the NEW COVENANT dusty!  Come on dude!  The NEW CONVENANT is the NEW COVENANT of YHVH... who NEVER CHANGES dusty!  And who happens to be the GOD of JESUS CHRIST...

JESUS CHRIST's ...EVERY WORD and DEED... was that of YHVH!  Or do you ignore the several NEW TESTAMENT notations where HE stated this?  :mshock: (John 5:30-31  / John 14:10 / John 5:19)

Quote
The answer as to whether I believe tares are human beings, yes they are totally carnal human beings, they have no inner man, or spirit from God, and they are not man as God
as God attributes a man to be.  If you are a man to God, then when your body dies your spirit goes back to God who gave it.

What say the scriptures?

Matthew 7:6
Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

Do you think Jesus thought His followers were going to expound the truth to actual dogs and swine??????

The UNCONVERTED and UNDRAWN Man, remains CARNAL until CONVERTED and DRAWN... What were YOU dusty, before you came to know JESUS CHRIST?   Were you a "MAN"?  Can't be so according to your deductions, because you were CARNAL... through and through... however... CONVERSION is brought about by DRAWING... and until you were DRAWN, you were a DOG and SWINE... for you would without thought or care, TRAMPLE the "pearls" of those already DRAWN and CONVERTED... as SWINE as it were!  Or DOG, you pick!  :punish:

Quote
These apostels were talking about human beings and describing their state in relation to God.

One of which was once ...YOU... dusty!  The state of UNBELIEF in which ALL are concluded (Rom 11:32)

Speaking to you is like speaking to the ET crowd, bud... though your perception of annhilation (which I am quite familiar with, as I was an SDA for almost 5yrs)... as I previously noted, makes GOD a DESTROYER, ...makes GOD a RESPECTER of PERSONS, ...makes GOD selectively MERCIFUL to some (for NO REASON) and  UNMERCIFUL to MOST (again for NO REASON)!

And yet, ...you have yet to note to us, WHY ...YOU... are chosen to be a "wheat" above the MASSIVE poor and unfortunate "darnels"... and I will probably NEVER get an answer to that, because YOU shall continue to illogically, CENTER YOURSELF as elite WITHOUT REASON.

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2 Peter 2:12But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;


In your quote, you MISS... that these are ...NATURAL... (not SPIRITUAL) brute beasts... And in the period that YOU were found in this category, ...you conveniently dismiss that period, thinking to be the EXCEPTION... gimme a break home boy!

You speak as a child, with LESS than SPIRITUAL knowledge... You are obviuosly intelligent and studied... but as the PHARISEES which preceeded you... you VAINLY propose YOURSELF as WHEAT, while demoting MOST to FIREWOOD.

Quote
13And shall receive the reward of unrighteousness, as they that count it pleasure to riot in the day time. Spots they are and blemishes, sporting themselves with their own deceivings while they feast with you;

Gosh dusty... you show you know less and less with each quote you post.  For this is VANITY which is spoken of me bratha... In VAIN do you propose yourself as pure... while noting without CARE... the LIVING, breathing, and SALVATION NEEDING others to the FIRE... knowing NOT the compassion of JESUS CHRIST which said, FATHER FORGIVE THEM for they KNOW NOT what they DO...

You are so easy to confound it is almost pathetic... but I treasure you as the child of YHVH who you so easily DISRESPECT... and so easily DISMISS as the SAVIOR... placing faith in the MAN, and not the GOD behind the MAN... Wallowing in your fleshly and NATURAL perceptions, which gladly EMBRACE that which JESUS taught against...

FORGIVE your enemies... BLESS them that curse you... (Matt 5:44)

But your version of these words results in this:  FORGIVE your enemies, BLESS them which curse you, ...and... THROW them in the FIRE as soon as you get the chance!

WHY would GOD demand we LOVE the tares dusty?  If HE does not LOVE them? :rolleye:  What a HYPOCRITICAL proposition!

Quote
Jude 1:10But these speak evil of those things which they know not: but what they know naturally, as brute beasts, in those things they corrupt themselves. 

 11Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

ALL men follow this trail to the cross bro... in this is contained the answer... these speak evil of those things which they KNOW NOT!

I hope someday, that the Father shall reveal the detour you have taken, and set your foot upon the GOSPEL of GOD... which is PEACE...

There is NO PEACE in violence dusty, which is the GOSPEL of ANNHILATION that you propose...

...willieH  :cloud9:
« Last Edit: May 04, 2008, 12:32:29 AM by willieH »

Offline willieH

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #57 on: May 03, 2008, 12:46:47 AM »
willieH: Hi dusty...  :Sparkletooth:

Sparrow, I was a UR believer when no one else I knew of was, for a very long time.  In 2005 I had an awakening and comprehended that I was ignoring the words of Jesus Christ for what I thought Paul had said.
 From that time it has been as if floodgates had opened in my understanding of the truth.
Now I understand why we are here, and where we will end up. Why there is so much evil in the world, how it will be eliminated, and what is the true gift of God, knowledge of and faith in Jesus Christ.

Again you fail to note WHY you were chosen as part of "WE"...  :thumbdown:

This reply, essentially did not answer Sparrow at all dusty... You evade quoting her, just like you evade quoting and directly answering me...  :thumbdown:

Try quoting her words and answer directly, instead of witnessing the date upon which came your deception.  :crywipe:

This answer is just more useless banter, from one who has found tickling of his own ears (himself saved), ...and which thereby makes himself special above the MYRIADS of others which GOD created to be saved... demoting their existence to DESTRUCTION. 

And thereby stating JESUS as a failure... being sent to FIND and save THAT which was LOST...

ALL are LOST, but MOST according to you, stay LOST...

It is disgusting and I rebuke you and YOUR DECEPTION, in the name of the SAVIOR of ALL... JESUS CHRIST

...willieH  :thumbdown:

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #58 on: May 03, 2008, 01:07:52 AM »
Sparrow,

As I've mentioned previously for many years I was a UR'ist without knowing another soul who was.  Long before anyone here, even Gary Himself.

Whatever Jesus ultimately does is perfectly acceptable to me, for I trust the Lord with all my heart, there is no one else to trust.

I am just pointing out the fact that after I realized UR was incorrect; it was like a floodgate was opened in my mind, scripture now fits together much more congruently since I've had my eyes open (no offence intended).   For so long I took Paul's writtings over Jesus' and the other apostles.  It was a feel good state to believe all would enter the 'barn' or the Kingdom, and it also tended to make me more acceptable of evils or wrongs that other and myself would do.

Now this is not the case.  I realize now that we must carry on in faith, belief and trust in Jesus Christ.  I take no ones' word over Christ.  I now realize Paul spoke things in a twisted manner as to decieve those who were not predestinated, not to mention the injected and false scriptures that have been injected into Paul's writtings over the last two millinium by the Catholic Church and in general the 'Synagogue of Satan'.

The water poured out of the mouth of the dragon is false doctrine.   These false doctrines and teachings have been imbeded into not only Pauls, but I'm certain throughout various other portions.  How may one seperate the truth from the 'water' poured from the dragons mouth?  Actually only with the assistance of Christ himself is it possible.

I've tried to determine some of the simple mechanics to seperate the false from the true, and here are a few rules of thumb if you are so willing to test them over time;

1)  Have two scriptural witnesses (two seperate men from God).

2) Never believe anything or anyone's word that contradicts Jesus' teachings.

3) Keep in mind Paul spoke things 'hard to be understood, that the unlearned wrestle with to their own destruction'.  Therefore it is highly advisable to be very well grounded in CHrist, the four gospels and the other prophets prior to reading Pauls, ,keeping in mind the warnings of Peter about Pauls writtings. 

Not to mention the vomit from the dragons mouths that now contaminates the scriptures.

Here is an example, Christ says,

'wide is the road to destruction and many their be that find it, and narrow is the road to salvation (the eternal kingdom of God or the future universe of light and love), and few there be that find it'.

It seems as if I never listened or really heard Christ before he revealed a better understanding to me.  Then I just ignored some things because it was uncomfortable or inconveniant.   I also never realized the true definition of 'man' from the true God's perspective, always taking it at face value to mean mankind in general (all humans), not seeing the truth in that a man to God is actually someone with Christ indwelling (his brothers and sisters), evident by their fruits.   


Thus the reason Jesus said those who do not hear him are not of God (or from God), and we know Christ is not a liar, speaking the truth only and always.  Therefore one must come to grips that Jesus is either right and themselves wrong, or to simply glaze over his writtings without seriously considering the impact of his teachings (If you are not of God, you certainly will not return to him).

Peace in Christ.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #59 on: May 03, 2008, 01:20:49 AM »
 By the way willi, I take it for granted that one reading my answers knows what they have posted. As for being chosen that is up to God. As far as being special, God will save the whole Adamic race. If you are not of Adam you are not of God. Simple eh?

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job 33:4
The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

What came from God will return to God. Just the way it is.

Job 34:14
If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #60 on: May 03, 2008, 02:48:15 AM »

Isaiah 60
 1Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

 2For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

 3And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising.

The God who spoke to Moses on the mountain out of the thick darkness was NOT Jesus Christ, the express image of the Father who dwells in the light.

1 Timothy 6:16
Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.

 Now here is another witness that no man has seen God the Father.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

 Who, then did Moses recieve the commandments ordained of angels from, and see his hinder parts?

Exodus 33: 18And he said, I beseech thee, shew me thy glory.

 19And he said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the LORD before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy.

 20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.  

21And the LORD said, Behold, there is a place by me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:

 22And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:

 23And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

 This was not God the Father of Jesus Christ!!  This also is the way it is.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

laren

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #61 on: May 03, 2008, 03:22:40 AM »
By the way willi, I take it for granted that one reading my answers knows what they have posted. As for being chosen that is up to God. As far as being special, God will save the whole Adamic race. If you are not of Adam you are not of God. Simple eh?

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job 33:4
The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

What came from God will return to God. Just the way it is.

Job 34:14
If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;


Trying to understand then this verse, obviously Cain came from Adam, so Cain wil return to God and be saved.
 
Gen 4:1  And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bore Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

1Jn 3:12  Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.

Jud 1:11  Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Korah.


One verse says cain was of the wicked one,

and one verse says he was the child of Adam.



??? 

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #62 on: May 03, 2008, 04:04:52 AM »
 Cain did not come from Adam. What did the lord do to Eve when she was pregnant with Cain?

Genesis 3:15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

 Then what happened?

Genesis 4
 1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

 2And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

 What was said here?  She concieved and bore Cain, the only begotten of the Darkness, the produced Able, the son of Adam.

 Adam did not have another child with Eve for nearly three hundred years.  Sooo--, where did Cain get his wife, and where did the men whom he said would kill him come from???
 Read the book of Enoch.
The apostles had NO respect for Eve, but she is the MOTHER of all'

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 Can you guess what beguiled means litteraly. :dontknow:




Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

laren

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #63 on: May 03, 2008, 04:31:01 AM »
Cain did not come from Adam. What did the lord do to Eve when she was pregnant with Cain?

Genesis 3:15And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

 16Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.

 Then what happened?

Genesis 4
 1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.

 2And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

 What was said here?  She concieved and bore Cain, the only begotten of the Darkness, the produced Able, the son of Adam.

 Adam did not have another child with Eve for nearly three hundred years.  Sooo--, where did Cain get his wife, and where did the men whom he said would kill him come from???
 Read the book of Enoch.
The apostles had NO respect for Eve, but she is the MOTHER of all'

Genesis 3:20
And Adam called his wife's name Eve; because she was the mother of all living.

2 Corinthians 11:3
But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.

 Can you guess what beguiled means litteraly. :dontknow:






so are you saying, that "i will put enmity between thy seed and your seed", means that satan and Eve had intercourse and produced a baby= cain??


and this was very sorrowful for Eve??


Then what does "Adam knew his wife and she conceived and bore cain" mean??





laren

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #64 on: May 03, 2008, 04:42:02 AM »
Oh, I think i just got what u are saying.  When Eve said the serpent beguiled me, she meant that they had sex, and she was therefore already pregnant. 

So when God said she would have sorrow in thy conception thou shalt bring forth children; this was referring to the birth of cain. 

Then Adam knew his wife, and she became pregnant with Abel.  so either she had twins, one from each parent, (satan and Eve) or she had Cain first, then later had Abel. 


Is this what u are saying???


laren

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #65 on: May 03, 2008, 04:49:41 AM »
so why didn't Cain and his seed get destroyed in the flood?  How did they make it through??


laren

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #66 on: May 03, 2008, 04:56:40 AM »
Ok, Peacetroll; I think i understand your beliefs, let me know if i'm close.   

eve and satan had sex and produced cain. 

eve and Adam had sex and produced Abel, who was then killed by Cain, and then Adam and Eve had Seth.  Seth was the Adamic line that led to Christ, the last Adam.

Christ came to destroy the works of the devil/satan/serpent, and therefore are destined to be destroyed completely at the second coming of Christ.

Adam and his seed will all be saved, some now; a specially group; and some later through fire, or maybe through a judgment time/millenium?? 

for now, three sets of "beings" are living side by side:  sons of satan, sons of adam who have not been given faith in Christ, and sons of Christ who have been given faith. 

I'm assuming those with faith now, if they stay  faithful to the end; will have a role in bringing in the rest of Adam's seed, and a role in the destruction of satan's seed??? 


am I close
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 05:49:26 AM by laren »

Offline willieH

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #67 on: May 03, 2008, 05:11:58 AM »
willieH: Hi PT... :hithere:

By the way willi, I take it for granted that one reading my answers knows what they have posted. As for being chosen that is up to God. As far as being special, God will save the whole Adamic race. If you are not of Adam you are not of God. Simple eh?

NO... arrogant... to think yourself of the saved... How do you know dusty?  What assurance YOU are of the number of the "selected/chosen"?  Just because you view it and think this view to be true, does NOT assure you of being part of that number!  :thumbdown:

God will save the whole "ADAMIC" race...  BOOK / CHAPTER / VERSE... please.

SIMPLE is that GOD is LOVE (not hate-which is the centerpoint of the VIOLENT and DESTRUCTIVE result you note), and that GOD is a CREATOR (not a MAJORITY DESTROYER as you note), and GOD is a SAVIOR (not a psychotic, selective and UNREASONABLE monster as you note, creating beings with NO CHANCE of existence beyond this realm... giving them LIFE, then taking it permanently FROM them)...

With such a message as you note... how can you call yourself PEACEtroll?  For your message is hardly PEACEABLE... and notes GOD as PARTIAL... bringing creatures into this life (men) which ALL SIN, and saving only the "Adamic" portion (whatever that might be - I'm sure you shall NOT prove what you state)... What a crock!

PROVE that ALL men do not find their origin in ADAM dusty... Name this statement, ...BOOK / CHAPTER / VERSE!

Genesis 2:7
And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Job 33:4
The spirit of God hath made me, and the breath of the Almighty hath given me life.

What came from God will return to God. Just the way it is.


No one is arguing this... GOD is the ALPHA (beginning) and OMEGA (end) of ALL THINGS dusty...

ALL have been given the INVESTMENT of the BREATH of LIFE... which means that GOD is IN ALL... for He BREATHES the breath of LIFE into each...

Job 34:14
If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;

You post nonsense dusty... ALL believers of UR, believe that the breath of life given to us, comes from ALMIGHTY YHVH GOD... (oh yeah, you dont believe in YHVH God... YOUR breath must come from another source)

You have YET to answer my posts... mostly because you have no answers... thinking yourself a scholar, and that YOU have arrived at truth that no one else has... please...

No offense intended dusty,  but your stand is laughable... :laughing7: and pitiful  :pitiful: ...simulataneously...

UNBIBLICAL, without SPIRITUAL understanding, and SELF centered...  sorry for being a bit crass, but the SPIRITUAL SOIL you bring here, in your SELF oriented gab, needs to be noted... that your nonsense is not allowed to go unchecked and that the readers might find your babble, though intelligently noted, to be exposed as tainted, and harmful.

Try answering me dusty, instead of posting Scriptures with which no one disagrees... as part of making your point... :rolleye:

...willieH   :cloud9:

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #68 on: May 03, 2008, 06:02:55 AM »
You are correct Lauren.
Satan did not have sex with Eve any more than God the Father had sex with Mary.  He caused a son to be born who was the express image of himself as Jesus is the express image of the Father in the flesh.
 The serpent, Leviatrhan had many children with Eve after that, as Adam went three hundred years without touching her over Cain the son of the murderer, the antichrist.   Userping the inheritance of the first born of God was what that was all about. If you know nothing of Leviathan,  Samjezza, he who lets, then this is all jibberish.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

laren

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #69 on: May 03, 2008, 06:38:39 AM »
so why didn't Cain and his seed get destroyed in the flood?  How did they make it through??




Hi peacetroll,

what about this question re: the flood??

Offline Pierac

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #70 on: May 03, 2008, 07:10:24 AM »
Hi Peacetroll,

You are correct Lauren.
Satan did not have sex with Eve any more than God the Father had sex with Mary.  He caused a son to be born who was the express image of himself as Jesus is the express image of the Father in the flesh.
 The serpent, Leviatrhan had many children with Eve after that, as Adam went three hundred years without touching her over Cain the son of the murderer, the antichrist.   Userping the inheritance of the first born of God was what that was all about. If you know nothing of Leviathan,  Samjezza, he who lets, then this is all jibberish.

Satan does not have the power to create life. I'm confused to as where you would get the idea that Satan did something like this? How did you come to this conclusion? What scriptures gave you this impression?   Thanks Bro.

Paul

meerkat

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #71 on: May 03, 2008, 09:04:32 AM »
Hi peacetroll,

Samjezza  - is that the fallen angel (Samjaza) from the "Book of Enoch" ?

riverman

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #72 on: May 03, 2008, 03:51:51 PM »
A few verses came to mind as I was reading through this thread;

Isa 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
 
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
 
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
 
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
1Jn 4:14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Keeping in mind;

Isa 55:11  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Praise God!

RM

laren

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #73 on: May 03, 2008, 06:04:10 PM »
A few verses came to mind as I was reading through this thread;

Isa 26:9  With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
 
1Co 3:13  Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
 
1Co 3:14  If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
 
1Co 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
 
1Jn 4:14  And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the world.

Keeping in mind;

Isa 55:11  So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Praise God!

RM


the thing is, Peacetroll will agree with all these verses.  He just doesn't see the offspring of satan and eve as being "man" as defined by God. 

so, really imo; his whole thesis is dependent upon satan producing offspring through Eve. 

But how did this offspring get through the other side of the flood? 

and I also want to know if he sees the color of one's skin, as reflecting whether one is the offspring of satan too? 


Offline Peacetroll

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Re: Wheat & Tares (Excellent Explanation!)
« Reply #74 on: May 03, 2008, 08:20:57 PM »
 The color of ones skin has nothing to do with being a son of Adam. The peoblem is that tares look just like wheat untill the harvest. Why we are told to judge nothing [anyone]before the time. We are told that we may know them by their fruits, but again the tares decieve the vast majority of the world who God is and what is the proper way to live with others.
 Look at our world now, success is defined by your ability to gain the upper hand on your brother, and what material possessions you can aquire. Is this Godly? The way that Jesus said we should live? It is do unto others before they do unto you. :sigh:
 You are right Lauren, I do agree with those verses, and I do not see the child of Satan, and the children of the watchers as men, and neither does God our Father.
 Samjezza is the angelic Chief of the children of pride, Leviathan. All the decendants of those children of pride, the angelic sons of the Darkness, are becoming the majority of the population of the world, as they engage in the destruction of the sons of Seth, the whole Adamic race. As the Darkness took them out of himself to do.
 The son of perdition, Cain and a wife,were on the ark with Noah. Seven of the clean, two of the unclean. Noah being the eigth clean person.
 The new sons of the watchers replace the ones drowned in the flood and continue the attack on the sons of Seth, even until now. All the sons of the watchers are called children of the Devil, meaning enemy, because they are of the angels of Darkness, which are directly made of him. Created of his substance, not made.
 Remember what was said to Baal, Samjezza, when he brought the Assyrians down to Jerusalem?

Isaiah 37:26Hast thou not heard long ago, how I have done it; and of ancient times, that I have formed it? now have I brought it to pass, that thou shouldest be to lay waste defenced cities into ruinous heaps.

 27Therefore their inhabitants were of small power, they were dismayed and confounded: they were as the grass of the field, and as the green herb, as the grass on the housetops, and as corn blasted before it be grown up.

 28But I know thy abode, and thy going out, and thy coming in, and thy rage against me.

 29Because thy rage against me, and thy tumult, is come up into mine ears, therefore will I put my hook in thy nose, and my bridle in thy lips, and I will turn thee back by the way by which thou camest.

The Isaiah verses above were concerning the conflict between Satan and Leviathan (Leviathan being the Cheif of Satans Angels or Belzzebub), There is no conflict between the Arch Angels of the Light, this we know because Jesus told us that a house divided can not stand, and the house of LIGHT is not divided, like Satans house is.   What most people think is wrong in that Satan was made by Jesus (or the Light), when in fact Satan was not made, he is in fact the darkness that has always been, that was divided in the beginning from the LIght, he is the God of this world and has his own angels, whom are in conflict with him (for power and authority).

What was said of this in Job?

Job 41:1Canst thou draw out leviathan with an hook? or his tongue with a cord which thou lettest down?

 2Canst thou put an hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a thorn?

 3Will he make many supplications unto thee? will he speak soft words unto thee?

 4Will he make a covenant with thee? wilt thou take him for a servant for ever?

 5Wilt thou play with him as with a bird? or wilt thou bind him for thy maidens?

 6Shall the companions make a banquet of him? shall they part him among the merchants?

 7Canst thou fill his skin with barbed irons? or his head with fish spears?

 8Lay thine hand upon him, remember the battle, do no more.

 9Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him?

 10None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?

 11Who hath prevented me, that I should repay him? whatsoever is under the whole heaven is mine. [What did the Devil tell Jesus}

 12I will not conceal his parts, nor his power, nor his comely proportion.

 13Who can discover the face of his garment? or who can come to him with his double bridle?

 14Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.

 15His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal.

 16One is so near to another, that no air can come between them.

 17They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered.

 18By his neesings a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of the morning.

 19Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out.

 20Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron.

 21His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.

 22In his neck remaineth strength, and sorrow is turned into joy before him.

 23The flakes of his flesh are joined together: they are firm in themselves; they cannot be moved.

 24His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone.

 25When he raiseth up himself, the mighty are afraid: by reason of breakings they purify themselves.

 26The sword of him that layeth at him cannot hold: the spear, the dart, nor the habergeon.

 27He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood.

 28The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble.

 29Darts are counted as stubble: he laugheth at the shaking of a spear.

 30Sharp stones are under him: he spreadeth sharp pointed things upon the mire.

 31He maketh the deep to boil like a pot: he maketh the sea like a pot of ointment.

 32He maketh a path to shine after him; one would think the deep to be hoary.

 33Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.

 34He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.





 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 11:59:27 PM by Peacetroll »
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.