Author Topic: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus  (Read 1783 times)

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Offline anti_nietzsche

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Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« on: October 22, 2012, 05:28:36 PM »
Today this parable came to mind here again and I mulled a bit about it.

It could be said that Christ Himself was the Lazarus in this story. He laid at the gates of the rich men, and hoped for crumbs from their table (that they would support his ministry and help him in doing something for the poor and for the lost) and his leprous blotches were the poor and the other in some way needy people that Jesus spoke on behalf of so often. The Pharisees and the Rich sent their dogs to lick these boils and blotches, ie they said kind words to them in order to pacify them and in many cases to lead them away from Christ whom they called a troublemaker. It's interesting how Christ would use this metaphor, the christian concept of people constituting Christ's body comes to mind.

In the parable, after their death both Lazarus/Christ and the Rich Man enter the afterlife. Jesus rests at Beloved Abraham's bosom in order to rest from the ordeal that His life had meant. The Rich man, if I get the symbolism right, also died and stands before Christ and has no excuse. I take that to mean he is full of shame. Abraham tells him to stuff it, he wouldn't become a powerful and comfortable Rich Man again who could define the rules (the abyss). The Rich Man wants to save his offspring and rest of the family, but Jesus says their only chance is in him, and the ironic fact is he would indeed come back from the dead and yet the Rich Men of his time wouldn't believe it nor would they get changed in their hard heart because of it.

I can guess what the Great White Throne Judgment and the lake of fire will be like ... a big shame fest.

(Apparently Jesus took this parable to approach the then-current ideas of hell and the afterlife (which were pretty medieval) and change it to his point of view and the spiritual reality of the afterlife that only He knew something about on Earth.)

Offline sheila

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2012, 05:59:16 PM »
I agree Lazarus  portrays Christ[and all men to be raised up in Him]. it also fits the 'suffering servant"

.the rich man[pharisees=offspring  of vipers]  or sin..living it up on earth and luxuring in it's inequity......

      whatever you did for the least of these that beleive in me, ye have done unto me...for I was hungry..

  cold..in prison..naked..sick.....

    God promises...that   "my people shall not be ashamed"  but they shall be humble and contrite

    How does Father remove our shame from us?   'the creature was subjected to vanity..not of it's

  own will..but of the will of Him who subjected it..in order that the whole creation shall be set free...

  into the Glorious Liberty of the SONS OF GOD"

   He also says...'do not condemn a servant to his Master"  it was by the will of the Father that we be

  subjected to this exercize in good/evil.  you can not tell a servant from a son when they are youth....

   for folly is tied up with the heart of a youth..........but there is the 'foolishness' of God to deal with this

   also known as the 'foolishness' of the cross.

     HE IS BEYOND COMPARE IN WISDOM INTELLECT LOVE AND POWER............I AM SO PROUD

   OF HIM!!!!!.......THE WHOLE CREATION IS IN VERY CAPABLE HANDS

Offline lomarah

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2012, 06:38:15 PM »
That was awesome Sheila.  :HeartThrob:
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Offline anti_nietzsche

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2012, 08:39:18 PM »
That's a good continuation of the essence of the parable. Except perhaps in this, the suffering people of the sheep and goat discernment exist everywhere, they're not only christians but they're in the body of Christ already. That's a necessary part of universalism, not to be exclusive. In the lazarus parable Jesus simply sets out to call the suffering and poor and needy a part of his body ... their pain is his pain and he can't do something else but love them so God is always pleading with us to make things better for all and to remember that our happiness is also our Father's happiness...

Online eaglesway

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2012, 10:48:06 PM »
I also think that Jesus was simply illustrating for the legalistic, ritualistic Jews, what Paul called "true religion".

In many places the Lord used these parables to illustrate to all who heard Him and all who would ever read His words that difference between living in "indifference" to those who are suffering upon the doorstep of our prosperity while we recline within the walls of our abundance, completely oblivious to the needs that surround us.

Whatever ones concept of the afterlife, it is clear hear that Jesus is speaking to a principle which applies at every level, for instance.

Lazarus as the Gentiles, starving for the word of God, which the Hebrews have, but refuse to share because they are so caught up in "expanding their own borders" in their visions of earthly kingdom that they have not seen the kingdom of God in the words of the prophets, nor themselves as the "lampstand" they were meant to be in the world among the nations.

Lazarus as the unbelievers in our communities, withering upon the doorstep of our religious indifference as we divide over doctrinal minutae and build more and bigger churches "for the glory of God".

Lazarus as Christ for "as you have done unto the least of these, so have you done unto me".
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Offline sheila

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2012, 11:05:28 PM »
 :iagree:

Online eaglesway

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2012, 11:11:28 PM »
Thought you might  :gimmefive:
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Offline Illuin

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2013, 08:26:09 PM »
Lazarus representing Christ is certainly the "present spiritual application" to the parable. However, we should not ignore the past/present application, as it was a prophecy given by Christ foretelling the "proverbial Gospel Torch" being passed from the unbelieving Jews to the believing Gentiles, and a postponement of the Jews inheritance.


In the Old Covenant, as a Gentile, all one could ever hope for are the spiritual "crumbs" that fell from the Rich Man's (Jews) table, but in the book of Mark we read of "the faith of the Gentiles":

  • Mark 7:26-29 "The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter. But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs. And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs. And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter."

Not in all Israel did our Lord find such faith as in these "DOGS" (Gentiles).  But "Judah" (the Jews) gets all the blessings while the "Gentile" dogs get the crumbs?


What was Christ's response to this great faith by the Centurion?

  • Matthew 8:11-12 "And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and the west [Gentiles], and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the Kingdom of Heaven, but the children of the kingdom [Judah--the Jews] shall be cast into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth."


The "Jews" who are the "children of the kingdom" will be "cast out." And those from the East and West are "GENTILES." Christ is telling us who these "many" are because He is illustrating the great faith that God has given to this Centurion Gentile.


Also (which has been mentioned already):

Judah had FIVE BROTHERS (full) brothers, as did the Rich Man.

  • Genesis 35:23 "The sons of Leah; [1] Reuben; Jacob's firstborn, and [2] Simeon, and [3] Levi, and [4] "Judah", and [5] Issachar, and [6] Zebulun."
    Genesis 30:20 "And Leah said ... 'now will my husband be pleased to dwell with me; for I have born him six sons.'"


And in Luke we read:

  • Luke 16:28 "For I [the Rich Man] have FIVE BRETHREN ; that he may testify unto them"


It was the "Gentiles" who were not allowed into the Royal and Priestly House of Judah. They could go no further than "The court of the Gentiles." (a GREAT GULF).

Any blessings they received had to come to them from inside where they were never allowed to go. Though designated as "proselytes," they were treated as "dogs" who only got the "crumbs" or scraps! Hence we find Lazarus cast "at the gate."

  • Ephesians 2:13-18 "Yet now, in Christ Jesus, you [Gentiles], who once are far off are become near by the blood of Christ. For He is our Peace, Who makes both one, and razes the central wall of the barrier [GREAT GULF] ... He brings the evangel of peace to you [Gentiles] ... for through Him we both [Jews and Gentiles] have had the access, in one spirit to the Father"


Today, the Gentiles no longer have to stand outside the gate, or be separated by a barrier (GREAT GULF), or stay in their own court, and wait for handouts. They have direct access to God.


The parable is about Judah's (the Rich Man) inheritance being given to The Gentiles (Lazarus), because Judah rejected The One (Christ) who would be RAISED FROM THE DEAD.

  • Luke 16:31 "And he said unto him, If they [the Jews] hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead [Christ]."


And the (physical, biological) Jews STILL have not been persuaded to this day, and they will remain blinded until "the fullness of the Gentiles has come in."

  • Romans 11:25-26 "For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in. And so ALL Israel shall be saved"


When shall ALL Israel be saved? When does "the fullness of the Gentiles be come in then... all Israel shall be saved?" The Scriptures tell us exactly when:

  • Ezekiel 16:55 "When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, THEN thou [Judah] and thy daughters shall return to your former estate."
« Last Edit: January 17, 2013, 11:19:37 PM by Illuin »
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Offline sheila

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2013, 08:38:18 PM »
  I  liked that!!

Offline sheila

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2013, 08:56:25 PM »
Proverbs 1;1  The proverbs of Solomon,son of David,king of Israel

   for attaining widome and discipline; for understanding words of insight; for acquiring a disciplen and prudent life.

  doing what is right and just and fair;for giving prudence to the simple,knowledge and discretion to the young

  let the wise listen and add to their learning, and let the discerning get guidance-

   for understanding proverbs and parables the saying of allegories  of the wise.

Online eaglesway

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2013, 02:54:43 AM »
I liked it too. The prophecy to Sodom and her sisters and Samaria and Judah also line up with similar prohecies to Egypt and Assyria

In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.
(Isa 19:23-25)

This astounding prophecy will be fulfilled (IMO) during the millennial reign. We kno that in the beginning of the millenial reign Egypt will be smitten until they consent to send their representatives to Jerusalem to bow the knee to the Lord(Zechariah 14:12)

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
(Zec 14:6-13)

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
(Zec 14:16-19)




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Offline Illuin

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2013, 11:52:40 PM »
I liked it too. The prophecy to Sodom and her sisters and Samaria and Judah also line up with similar prohecies to Egypt and Assyria

In that day shall there be a highway out of Egypt to Assyria, and the Assyrian shall come into Egypt, and the Egyptian into Assyria, and the Egyptians shall serve with the Assyrians. In that day shall Israel be the third with Egypt and with Assyria, even a blessing in the midst of the land: Whom the LORD of hosts shall bless, saying, Blessed be Egypt my people, and Assyria the work of my hands, and Israel mine inheritance.
(Isa 19:23-25)

This astounding prophecy will be fulfilled (IMO) during the millennial reign. We kno that in the beginning of the millenial reign Egypt will be smitten until they consent to send their representatives to Jerusalem to bow the knee to the Lord(Zechariah 14:12)

And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark: But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light. And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be. And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. All the land shall be turned as a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem: and it shall be lifted up, and inhabited in her place, from Benjamin's gate unto the place of the first gate, unto the corner gate, and from the tower of Hananeel unto the king's winepresses. And men shall dwell in it, and there shall be no more utter destruction; but Jerusalem shall be safely inhabited. And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth. And it shall come to pass in that day, that a great tumult from the LORD shall be among them; and they shall lay hold every one on the hand of his neighbour, and his hand shall rise up against the hand of his neighbour.
(Zec 14:6-13)

And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles. And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain. And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the LORD will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles. This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.
(Zec 14:16-19)


God's "saving judgments" are literally all throughout the Bible.

  • Zephaniah 3:8 "Therefore wait upon me, saith the Lord, until the day when I rise up for a witness: because my judgment shall be on the gatherings of the nations, to draw to me kings, to pour out upon them all my fierce anger: for the whole earth shall be consumed with the fire of my jealousy.
    Zephaniah 3:9 For then will I turn to the peoples a tongue for her generation, that all may call on the name of the Lord, to serve him under one yoke.
    Zephaniah 3:10 From the boundaries of the rivers of Ethiopia will I receive my dispersed ones; they shall offer sacrifices to me.
    Zephaniah 3:11 In that day thou shalt not be ashamed of all thy practices, wherein thou hast transgressed against me: for then will I take away from thee thy disdainful pride, and thou shalt no more magnify thyself upon my holy mountain.
    Zephaniah 3:12 And I will leave in thee a meek and lowly people;
    Zephaniah 3:13 and the remnant of Israel shall fear the name of the Lord, and shall do no iniquity, neither shall they speak vanity; neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth: for they shall feed, and lie down, and there shall be none to terrify them."

Christ says that judgment consists of many stripes or few stripes.

  • Luke 12:45 "But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;
    Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.
    Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.
    Luke 12:48 But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."


How does God judge His people whom He likens to Sodom and Gomorrah? God judges them, He "seeth that their power is gone", and then He "repents Himself":

  • Deuteronomy 32:32 "For their vine is of the vine of Sodom, and of the fields of Gomorrah: their grapes are grapes of gall, their clusters are bitter:
    Deuteronomy 32:33 Their wine is the poison of dragons, and the cruel venom of asps.
    Deuteronomy 32:34 Is not this laid up in store with me, and sealed up among my treasures?
    Deuteronomy 32:35 To me belongeth vengeance, and recompense; their foot shall slide in due] time: for the day of their calamity is at hand, and the things that shall come upon them make haste.
    Deuteronomy 32:36 For the LORD shall judge his people, and repent himself for his servants, when he seeth that their power is gone, and there is none shut up, or left."


And of course Sodom, as was mentioned already  (BTW: these are people whom the majority of Christendom has already consigned to eternal torment):

  • Ezekiel 16:55 "When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou [Judah] and thy daughters shall return to your former estate."

God judges so the world will learn righteousness:

  • Isaiah 26:9 "With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments are in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness.
    Isaiah 26:10 Let favor be shown unto the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD."

And salvation through judgment in Revelation 21:25-26 and 22:2 (among others):

  • Revelation 22:2 "In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations."

And who are those "NATIONS" being healed?

  • Revelation 20:7 "And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
    Revelation 20:8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea."

And:

  • Psalms 22:27 "All the ends of the world shall remember and turn unto the LORD: and all the kindreds of the nations shall worship before thee.
    Psalms 22:28 For the kingdom is the LORD'S: and he is the governor among the nations.
    Psalms 22:29 All they that be fat upon earth shall eat and worship: all they that go down to the dust shall bow before him: and none can keep alive his own soul."

  • Genesis 28:14 "And thy seed shall be as the dust of the earth, and thou shalt spread abroad to the west, and to the east, and to the north, and to the south: and in thee and in thy seed shall all the families of the earth be blessed."

  • Luke 13:20 "And again he said, Whereunto shall I liken the kingdom of God?
    Luke 13:21 It is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened."


« Last Edit: January 19, 2013, 12:39:43 AM by Illuin »
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Offline sheila

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Re: Parable of the rich man and Lazarus - Christ is the Lazarus
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2013, 12:04:15 AM »
yep, the saints were overcome..and then come the Ancient of days..and the kingdom was given unto the saints.

  a dashing of the power of the holy ones