Thrust Out

[CHB]

Why did Jesus say he was the Son of Man which is in heaven???

PeaceTroll,

I don't understand your reasoning here. Jesus was human and born of a woman, legally Joseph was his father while he was on earth,  of course he was the Son of man and Son of God. Yes, Jesus was a man, now what are you saying here? 

CHB

[reFORMer]

The "slops" to which I refer is dumping Paul (though I don't see what that has to do with it) and diametric opposition to Jesus' doctrine by holding what flesh you're born with determines who you are, profiting everything or condemning in being born.  You noticeably never answered whether you considered Jews or Negroes to be examples of "Tare" humanoids, unsavable Satan's spawn.  Even if you did not subscribe to such wicked error yourself, what you teach is right up Nazi's and Skinhead's alley.

[Peacetroll]

I don't know which individual person is a tare. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits.

1 Corinthians 4:5
Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.

Matthew 7:16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

 17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

 18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

21Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

 22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

You do not even hear what I teach, let alone are you a judge of it's source.

As for Paul being opposed to most of Jesus says, that is not true. If you don't know what Paul is really talking about then you make that a fact.
 The flesh does profit nothing, for it falls short of being and doing perfectly, and can not please God. But there is a bloodline from Adam, the son of God by His breath that was the wheat, the crop He planted. This crop will be perfected in Jesus Christ, when He is all and in all.
 There is a bloodline from the enemy, the tares, planted to destroy the crop, who's end is foreordained, as you know Jesus said plainly.

 I noticed you did not answer the question I posed to you about who said all men would be saved, Paul or Jesus, so which one do you think is the authority, the actual word of God?

[CHB]

I noticed you did not answer the question I posed to you about who said all men would be saved, Paul or Jesus, so which one do you think is the authority, the actual word of God?

I have noticed that you quote Paul sometimes to prove your point of view but then talk as if Paul's teachings are not valid or the word of God. Since you feel like Paul's words are not the word of God or not valid why even use his words in your post?

I don't think you have answered a single question I have asked. Is it because you don't know the answers? I post these questions mostly for the benefit of others.

CHB

[reFORMer]

The "slops" to which I refer is 1.) dumping Paul (though I don't see what that has to do with it) and 2.) diametric opposition to Jesus' doctrine by holding what flesh you're born with determines who you are, profiting everything or condemning in being born.  3.) You noticeably never answered whether you considered Jews or Negroes to be examples of "Tare" humanoids, unsavable Satan's spawn.  Even if you did not subscribe to such wicked error yourself, what you teach is right up Nazi's and Skinhead's alley.

I numbered the 3 principle points in the quotation above that I see you verified, though you misunderstood point two which describes your position toward Jesus, not Paul's or mine.

I don't know which individual person is a tare. Jesus said you will know them by their fruits.

Your still not answering whether you believe certain commonly identified people groups like Jews or negros are some of your "tares."

You do not even hear what I teach, let alone are you a judge of it's source.

I hear well enough.  I simply disagree.  Specially your racism.  Like who is Godly or antichrist is determined by the flesh's DNA.  This is precisely what I said in point "2.)" above:  "diametric opposition to Jesus' doctrine by holding what flesh you're born with determines who you are, profiting everything or condemning in being born."

As for Paul being opposed to most of Jesus says, that is not true. If you don't know what Paul is really talking about then you make that a fact.
 The flesh does profit nothing, for it falls short of being and doing perfectly, and can not please God. But there is a bloodline from Adam, the son of God by His breath that was the wheat, the crop He planted. This crop will be perfected in Jesus Christ, when He is all and in all.
There is a bloodline from the enemy, the tares, planted to destroy the crop, who's end is foreordained, as you know Jesus said plainly.

REPEAT:  I hear well enough.  I simply disagree.  Specially your racism.  Like who is Godly or antichrist is determined by the flesh's DNA.  This is precisely what I said in point "2.)" above:  "diametric opposition to Jesus' doctrine by holding what flesh you're born with determines who you are, profiting everything or condemning in being born."

I noticed you did not answer the question I posed to you about who said all men would be saved, Paul or Jesus, so which one do you think is the authority, the actual word of God?

It seems pointless answering a faulty question that points to the enquirer's ignorance, specially considering his past record.  Jesus and Paul speak this that is God's will.  It is also personally known by those who love Him and His creation.

This bogus doctrine, not in the Holy Scripture (not subject to what is written,) is truly disgusting.  Being thoroughly carnal, besides wrong, it is of death and at war (enmity) with God according to His Word:

5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
---Romans 8:5-8

[Molly]

24 The Jews surrounded him. They asked him, "How long will you keep us in suspense? If you are the Messiah, tell us plainly." 25 Jesus answered them, "I've told you, but you don't believe me. The things that I do in my Father's name testify on my behalf. 26 However, you don't believe because you're not my sheep. 27 My sheep respond to my voice, and I know who they are. They follow me, 28 and I give them eternal life. They will never be lost, and no one will tear them away from me. 29 My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than everyone else, and no one can tear them away from my Father. 30 The Father and I are one."

--John 10



Who are the sheep?



Matthew 15:24

24He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

[Molly]

27 My sheep respond to my voice, and I know who they are. They follow me, 28 and I give them eternal life. They will never be lost, and no one will tear them away from me. 29 My Father, who gave them to me, is greater than everyone else, and no one can tear them away from my Father. 30 The Father and I are one."

--John 10



Who are the sheep?  They've always been the same people.




Genesis 17:4
As for me, behold, my covenant is with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations.



Genesis 17:5
Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham ["father of a multitude"]; for a father of many nations have I made thee.



"nations"

H1471
גּי    גּוי
gôy gôy
go'ee, go'-ee
Apparently from the same root as H1465 (in the sense of massing); a foreign nation; hence a Gentile; also (figuratively) a troop of animals, or a flight of locusts: - Gentile, heathen, nation, people.



Romans 4:18
Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

[Molly]

21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them.--Genesis 3

"skin"


H5785
עור
‛ôr
ore
From H5783; skin (as naked); by implication hide, leather: - hide, leather, skin.



He hid them in the skin of beasts, in nakedness.


36Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
 37And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: --1 Cor 15



They are hidden from the foundation of the world until the resurrected Christ.



Colossians 1:26
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

27To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:

[Peacetroll]

 I didn't say what Paul said was true, if you understand what he said. If you don't understand much of what he says becomes a deciever, as it was designed to do.
Peter warned of Pauls teachings and none takes it to heart.

1 Corinthians1:30But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

 31That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

2 Corinthians 5:20Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God.  

21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

2 Corinthians 6: 1We then, as workers together with him, beseech you also that ye receive not the grace of God in vain.

 2(For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.)

 3Giving no offence in any thing, that the ministry be not blamed:

 4But in all things approving ourselves as the ministers of God, in much patience, in afflictions, in necessities, in distresses,

 5In stripes, in imprisonments, in tumults, in labours, in watchings, in fastings;

 6By pureness, by knowledge, by long suffering, by kindness, by the Holy Ghost, by love unfeigned,

 7By the word of truth, by the power of God, by the armour of righteousness on the right hand and on the left,

 8By honour and dishonour, by evil report and good report: as deceivers, and yet true;

 9As unknown, and yet well known; as dying, and, behold, we live; as chastened, and not killed;

All the questions you say I have not answered are all over the various posts I have made, yet you don't seem to see or hear it. Do you read them? If you do then why would you be asking the same things all the time?
 You did not answer the question about who said all men would be saved or who's word was the authority, Jesus, or Paul, in scriptural truth.
 You have staked your future on what you believe, as have I.
 

[Paul Hazelwood]

  You did not answer the question about who said all men would be saved or who's word was the authority, Jesus, or Paul, in scriptural truth.

The question has a false premise, it implies that only Jesus or Pauls words have authority on the matter.

God's will is the final authority, this is why Jesus was not allowed to have the "cup" pass.

God wills that all mankind be saved.   Either the bible contradicts itself, or any verse that appears to contradict Gods absolute will is not understood properly.

[Peacetroll]

I have a little question for you. You said Jesus was refused by the Father to have the cup pass. Since all the apostles were asleep, how did one of them hear what was going on in the garden?? There is only one reference to this event, and by Luke who was not present in the olive grove.
 
Luke 22:41And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

 42Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

 43And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

 44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

 45And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

 46And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

 If this verse were true why would the following statements have been made by Jesus. Who was, by the way, Immanuel, God with us.

Luke 12:50
But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

Mark 8:33
But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.

John 10:17Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

 18No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

 By the way, why do you think Jesus and the Father are seperate when they are one and the same?

John 10:29My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

 30I and my Father are one.

 31Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.

 As for God's will about who He will save.

Job 34:13Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed the whole world?

 14If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;

 15All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

[willieH]

I have a little question for you. You said Jesus was refused by the Father to have the cup pass. Since all the apostles were asleep, how did one of them hear what was going on in the garden?? There is only one reference to this event, and by Luke who was not present in the olive grove.
 
Luke 22:41And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed,

 42Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.

 43And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him.

 44And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

 45And when he rose up from prayer, and was come to his disciples, he found them sleeping for sorrow,

 46And said unto them, Why sleep ye? rise and pray, lest ye enter into temptation.

 If this verse were true why would the following statements have been made by Jesus. Who was, by the way, Immanuel, God with us.

More foolishness from the "troll"... GOD with US is YHVH IN His Son, ...CHRIST...

YHVH God ...IS... the FATHER and GOD of CHRIST...  CHRIST noted this FACT many times, including the moment just before His DEATH on the Cross...

By the way, why do you think Jesus and the Father are seperate when they are one and the same?

NO Scripture states that GOD and JESUS are ONE and the SAME... JESUS is the SON of GOD... GOD is HIS FATHER... A SON is an OFFSPRING of a FATHER...

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

 30I and my Father are one.

You don't even read what you "quote" troll... How can ONE GIVE something to oneself?  If one already HAS this, it is ridiculous to state one is GIVING it to oneself...

Verse 30 simply notes that CHRIST and YHVH are ONE (united) in SPIRIT... with the SAME agenda.  That agenda being the fulfillment of the WILL of YHVH...

For CHRIST always stated the WILL of the Father, was the WILL He was concerned with and was about fulfilling, NOT His own...

As for God's will about who He will save.

Job 34:13Who hath given him a charge over the earth? or who hath disposed the whole world?

 14If he set his heart upon man, if he gather unto himself his spirit and his breath;

 15All flesh shall perish together, and man shall turn again unto dust.

GOD makes an investment in each MAN of dust... the BREATH of LIFE... and THAT element notes the value of THAT DUST...

ALL flesh shall perish troll... for it is the NATURAL state of MEN... but the SPIRITUAL element which is the portion of BREATH given to each, is the SON in each of us, which ALWAYS is EVERLASTING!

...willieH 

[willieH]

  You did not answer the question about who said all men would be saved or who's word was the authority, Jesus, or Paul, in scriptural truth.

The question has a false premise, it implies that only Jesus or Pauls words have authority on the matter.

God's will is the final authority, this is why Jesus was not allowed to have the "cup" pass.

God wills that all mankind be saved.   Either the bible contradicts itself, or any verse that appears to contradict Gods absolute will is not understood properly.

 

 :omg:  Look who is DEMANDING ANSWERS to QUESTIONS!  ...The one (peaceTROLL) who never answers the questions of others... 

   Great post Paul!   

...willieH 

[Peacetroll]

No surprises, you'll can't read or reason or answer anything posted to you.
 You say nothing new and have no idea what scriptures really say, because to you your dogmas have much more credence than the words of Jesus Christ.
 YHVH is the God who spoke out of the gross darkness, Man which is in heaven dwells in the Light which no man has seen or can see.

John 14:8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?


John 16: 24Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

 25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

 26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

John 14:13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
 15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 20:27-29 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

   

 27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

 28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

 
29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

 What is the name of the Father?

Matthew 16:13
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 17:26
And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Isaiah 62:2
And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 I have shown who ever can hear the new name of God, from His own mouth. YHVH all you wish. The folling will still happen.

Zechariah 14:8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

 9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

And that name is all of the Adamic race. One as Jesus said, in the Father. MAN.
 Jesus Christ, the human being, was the first of many bretheren, Man, the beginning of the creation of God. God recreating Himself.

Revelation 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

[Paul Hazelwood]

Hi  PeaceTroll,   I quoted your question and have responded.

I have a little question for you. You said Jesus was refused by the Father to have the cup pass. Since all the apostles were asleep, how did one of them hear what was going on in the garden?? There is only one reference to this event, and by Luke who was not present in the olive grove.

First just let me say that it is important to see what the bible DOES NOT say as well as paying attention to the words it does have.

The bible does NOT say that ALL the disciples were sleeping,  this is your conclusion, not the conclusion of scripture.

In Matthew we must notice what takes place from one verse to the next.

Mat 26:36 Then Jesus is coming with them into the freehold termed Gethsemane, and He is saying to His disciples, "Be seated, till I come away and should be praying there."

Mat 26:37 And taking along Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, He begins to be sorrowful and depressed."
Mat 26:38 Then He is saying to them, Sorrow-stricken is My soul to death. Remain here and watch with Me."
Mat 26:39 And coming forward a little, He falls on His face, praying and saying, "My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass by from Me. However, not as I will, but as Thou!"


We see that the ones sleeping were the ones who Jesus told to stay,  but it does not say he told "all" of them nor does the bible say that "all" of them were sleeping. 

[Molly]

17(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

 18Who against hope believed in hope, that he might become the father of many nations, according to that which was spoken, So shall thy seed be.

 19And being not weak in faith, he considered not his own body now dead, when he was about an hundred years old, neither yet the deadness of Sarah's womb:

 20He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;

 21And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

 22And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

 23Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

 24But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

 25Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.

--Romans 4





3And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir.

 4And, behold, the word of the LORD came unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir.

 5And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be.

6And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness.

---Genesis 15





[out of thine own] "bowels"
H4578
מעה
mê‛eh
may-aw'
From an unused root probably meaning to be soft; used only in plural the intestines, or (collectively) the abdomen, figuratively sympathy; by implication a vest; by extension the stomach, the uterus (or of men, the seat of generation), the heart (figuratively): - belly, bowels, X heart, womb.




38 I am telling you what I saw when I was with my Father. But you are following the advice of your father."

 39 "Our father is Abraham!" they declared.

   "No," Jesus replied, "for if you were really the children of Abraham, you would follow his example. 40 Instead, you are trying to kill me because I told you the truth, which I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing.

--John 8

[willieH]

willieH: Hi readers...

I post an answer to Peacetroll here, but it is mainly for YOU... because he is UNWILLING and obviously incapable of answering even though he condemns others for not answering:

No surprises, you'll can't read or reason or answer anything posted to you.

Easily said of you... You NEVER answer any questions directed to you... or anything posted to you. 

This is easy for anyone to see, just REVIEW THIS THREAD, or any OTHER in which Peacetroll participates!

You say nothing new and have no idea what scriptures really say, because to you your dogmas have much more credence than the words of Jesus Christ.

More hypocritical blab...   You are just unable to see that ONE portion of the WORD of GOD does not hold a higher position than another. (i.e. the "GOSPELS" were written under the "SAME INSPIRER" as were the Letters and books of the NT, and prior to those, the entire OT  )

ALL the "Scripture" we have to research, is relegated to Translations done from Hebrew and Greek of COPIED texts... the Original Gospels, and letters are unavailable to those that would TRANSLATE them... and thereby UNAVAILABLE to us...

The TRUTH is found by any RESEARCHER, within the harmony contained in those AVAILABLE texts, when the MOST scrutiny which can be applied to them, is done, via the leading of GOD...

This process is not done via Peacetroll or willieH!  It is done via the INDIVIDUAL  ...which dedicates itself to GOD, seeking Him dilgently with that ENTIRE  : (Jer 29:13-14)

John 14:8Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us.

 9Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?

Your observation remains in the NATURAL... for CHRIST spoke both FROM and TO the SPIRIT... which is also WHY the Apostle PETER is not "satan" even though he was addressed as such...  CHRIST at times spoke from the position of YHVH (Son of GOD/Word/ETERNAL) and at times from the position of Man (son of man/offspring/sacrifice/finite)... Of course you cannot through blind eyes see these things... rather in the tunnel vision of pride see yourself... as the SOLE viewer of truth, while all others "stumble around" in the dark, ...please! 

John 16: 24Hitherto have ye asked nothing in my name: ask, and ye shall receive, that your joy may be full.

 25These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.

hmmm... I will SHOW you... plainly OF the FATHER... 2 entities mentioned here... "I" and the "Father"

I = SON of MAN which:

     a. Is FINITE
     b. Is able to be TEMPTED
     c. Is subject to GOD
     d. Is our brother human being
     e. Is capable of DYING
     f.  Is the UNBLEMISHED and obedient (to YHVH) sacrifice for Sin
     
the Father = YHVH God which:

     a. Is INFINITE
     b. Cannot be TEMPTED and does not tempt.
     c. Is OVER ALL
     d. Is our CREATOR
     e. Had to remove Himself from CHRIST on the cross to enable Him to die.
     f. Throughout the life of CHRIST was the "ALL" in the FIRSTBORN, that He is proposed to be in ALL at the conclusion of this process.

26At that day ye shall ask in my name: and I say not unto you, that I will pray the Father for you:

Again dusty... 2 SEPARATE entities are here noted... He didn't "pray to Himself"...

John 14:13And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.

 14If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.
 15If ye love me, keep my commandments.

Speaking above, as the WORD of GOD... not the son of man... get a clue...

John 20:27-29 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)
Public Domain

 27Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

 28And Thomas answered and said unto him, My LORD and my God.

This is the RESURRECTED CHRIST... He is ASCENDED... and YHVH is NOW (in the ETERNAL resurrected state) COMPLETELY invested IN Him, both in BODY and SPIRIT...

29Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

Prior to this portion of Scripture... CHRIST deferred such commentary... for He resided in FLESH which could be TEMPTED to exalt itself... In this passage, He is in a body which IS RISEN... and in which "body" YHVH permeates...

What is the name of the Father?

Matthew 16:13
When Jesus came into the coasts of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, saying, Whom do men say that I the Son of man am?

Well dusty?  You conveniently LEAVE OUT the answer...

What answer did they (Peter) give to this question...

(1) What they (Peter) DID NOT say:  thou art the CHRIST, ...the LIVING GOD...
(2) What they (Peter) DID say:  thou art art the CHRIST, ...the SON, ...of... the LIVING GOD (Matt 16:16)

John 3:13
And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which IS in heaven.

This is a TIME/ETERNAL notation, as was (John 8:58) ...both perspectives noted in the same NOTATION...

(John 8:58) Before Abraham WAS... I AM

CHRIST as the WORD, is an OMNIPRESENT entity...  This notation is from TIME and ETERNAL perspectives dusty... but is NOT impeded by TIME or its manifestations... ALL the Sons of men from the ETERNAL perspective ARE in Heaven, but FOLLOW the FIRSTBORN.

In TIME no man had ascended up to Heaven... but In ETERNITY, CHRIST, the FIRSTBORN, IS there ETERNALLY.

John 1:18
No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

This does not prove CHRIST to be the Father... He is DECLARING the WAY of the FATHER in the flesh... which makes the INVISIBLE (Father), ...VISIBLE (via the son)... to those who have NEVER seen Him... 

John 17:26
And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

Isaiah 62:2
And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the LORD shall name.

Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

 I have shown who ever can hear the new name of God, from His own mouth. YHVH all you wish. The folling will still happen.

Your arrogance is pitiful dusty...    the "name" JESUS CHRIST because of YHVH's statements in the Old Testament SCRIPTURES means "YHVH Saves"...  GOD Never CHANGED His NAME...

He REVEALS the GREATEST portion of it to those whom He has enables ONE by ONE, to see it:  SAVIOR... It is NEW to those who have not seen it... it is REVEALED, not invented, created and, ...especially NOT "RE-CREATED"... (as you propose below)

In the OT GOD (YHVH) says this:

(Is 43:11)  I, [even] I [am], YHVH... and beside ME, [there is] ...NO... SAVIOR...

2nd witness:  The very same statement is made in (Hosea 13:4)

The "man" JESUS CHRIST did not SAVE us dusty... YHVH God ...IN and THROUGH... JESUS CHRIST, did this... you so easily and arrogantly DISRESPECT the HOLY name of GOD... I find deep pity for you in this... 

CHRIST is the MEDIATOR ( substitute) and ADVOCATE (lawyer) between Man and GOD... (1 Tim 2:5 / 1 John 2:1)

He stands between us and GOD with His PERFECT life, and states to YHVH, that HIS OBEDIENT sacrifice was made, and STANDS FOR,  ...each individual presented before YHVH which is openly shown to have been, DISOBEDIENT...

He is that which is presented to cover ALL which has been done OUTSIDE the commanded WILL of YHVH...

Zechariah 14:8And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

 9And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.

And that name is all of the Adamic race. One as Jesus said, in the Father. MAN.
 Jesus Christ, the human being, was the first of many bretheren, Man, the beginning of the creation of God. God recreating Himself.

What a crock!  You state that GOD who claims to NEVER CHANGE, does exactly that!

RECREATING Himself???  :omg:  What a load of BS!  You must be filled with new wine dusty!

That which is PERFECT, is NOT in NEED of CHANGE, nor is in NEED of RE-CREATION!

What He in fact DOES is REVEAL... what is ALREADY (eternally) THERE dusty...

You note the following verse from the REVELATION of JESUS CHRIST... (which means the "REVEALING" of JESUS CHRIST)  Something that is REVEALED is ALREADY there bud...

Revelation 3:14
And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

That which is "ETERNAL" needs no "creation" or "recreation", ...IT already IS... 

The "creation" we find ourselves within, is a "TIME" classroom, in which the knowledge of GOOD and EVIL is being taught... It has a BEGINNING, and an ENDING...  Once the "lesson" is over, the "classroom" is become unecessary...

peAce

...willieH 

[Peacetroll]

Good and evil is not being taught, it's being separated. Carry on.

 Willy H, are you a crypto jewish infiltrator of christian movements? I see you are always squaking about YHVH, and not spelling the Name, of who you think God is. Only jews do this.

Paul, Jesus Christ and the Father are one. He is Emmanuel, God with us. His word is THE WORD, made flesh so that God could speak and live and be a Savior to all Adam. Paul is His agent.

[willieH]

willieH: Peacetroll... 

Good and evil is not being taught, it's being separated. Carry on.

Gen 3:22  And YHVH God said, behold the man is become as one of us, to KNOW good and evil

KNOWLEDGE is learned:

Is 26:9 with my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea with my spirit within me will I seek thee early... for WHEN THY JUDGMENTS are IN the EARTH, the INHABITANTS of the WORLD will ...LEARN righteousness...

Willy H, are you a crypto jewish infiltrator of christian movements?

Funny you should mention it... I was a CRYPTOGRAPHER in the US Army, what did YOU do in the Service PT?  BTW... I am a DISCIPLE of JESUS CHRIST, what are you?

I see you are always squaking about YHVH, and not spelling the Name, of who you think God is. Only jews do this.

Squaking? 

The notation is English letters, but the best we can do in translation from Hebrew to our alphabet... YeHoVaH = YHVH, there are no vowels in between the letters... they are inserted...

I note the name of MY GOD and FATHER (who was BTW, also CHRIST's GOD and FATHER), with as much respect as possible... Unlike yourself... 

Is this the best answer you can come up with?  Pretty weak there dusty... but its a start... 

...willieH 

[Peacetroll]

This little jewish girl HAS ears to hear who God is, and is begining to learn.  You return to YHVH's wallow. Are you a jewish infiltrator?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qNoKbxCj-k

[Paul Hazelwood]

Paul, Jesus Christ and the Father are one. He is Emmanuel, God with us.

 His word is THE WORD, made flesh so that God could speak and live and be a Savior to all Adam. Paul is His agent.

At first glance I do not necessarily disagree with this. However, how does that change Gods will for saving all mankind?

How does this stop God from "doing his delight"? 

Phl 2:13 for it is God Who is operating in you to will as well as to work for the sake of His delight.



I also agree that Jesus and the Father are one, as we all will be one with God the father at some point and time.  But there is more to it when considering these verses.

Jn 14:28 You hear that I said to you,  `I am going, and I am coming to you.'  If you loved Me, you would have rejoiced that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I.



The following verses are worded in a unique manner.   Jesus came "out" of God (Jesus was created)  but when he returns he is going "to" the father rather than going the opposite of "out" which would be "in".

Jn 16:27 for the Father Himself is fond of you, seeing that you are fond of Me, and have believed that I came out from God.

Jn 16:28 I came out from the Father and have come into the world. Again, I am leaving the world and am going to the Father."



1Corinthians 15:28 Now, whenever all may be subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also shall be subjected to Him Who subjects all to Him, that God may be All in all.)


The point is that Gods Will and declaration that He will save all mankind takes precedence over the "appearance" that Jesus words say that not everyone will be reconciled. 






 

[Molly]

9 "How are these things possible?" Nicodemus asked.

 10 Jesus replied, "You are a respected Jewish teacher, and yet you don't understand these things? 11 I assure you, we tell you what we know and have seen, and yet you won't believe our testimony. 12 But if you don't believe me when I tell you about earthly things, how can you possibly believe if I tell you about heavenly things? 13 No one has ever gone to heaven and returned. But the Son of Man has come down from heaven. 14 And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up, 15 so that everyone who believes in him will have eternal life.



--John 3



"be lifted up"

G5312
ὑψόω
hupsoō
hoop-so'-o
From G5311; to elevate (literally or figuratively): - exalt, lift up.




G5311
ὕψος
hupsos
hoop'-sos
From a derivative of G5228; elevation, that is, (abstractly) altitude, (specifically) the sky, or (figuratively) dignity: - be exalted, height, (on) high.

[Molly]

Good and evil is not being taught, it's being separated.

I agree with this, but we are also to learn to discern good and evil, which is not as easy as it sounds.


Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.


The Judgment is now (good and evil separated).


18 "There is no judgment against anyone who believes in him. But anyone who does not believe in him has already been judged for not believing in God's one and only Son. 19 And the judgment is based on this fact: God's light came into the world, but people loved the darkness more than the light, for their actions were evil. 20 All who do evil hate the light and refuse to go near it for fear their sins will be exposed. 21 But those who do what is right come to the light so others can see that they are doing what God wants.

--John 3

Jesus Christ and the Father are one. He is Emmanuel, God with us.

I agree with this, too.



Isaiah 9:6
For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.


Matthew 1:23
Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

[Peacetroll]

 Jesus was not created, He is the Creator.

John 1
 1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

 2The same was in the beginning with God.

 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

 5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

 6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.

 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

 8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.

 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.

 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

Paul, this again is from Paul's letters, and is only stated once in the scriptures. Trust nothing that is not backed up by other scriptures saying the same thing. You must remember that the scriptures have been worked over by people with agendas of their own, mainly trinitiests of the early catholic church.

Matthew 18:16
But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

 Paul himself uses this phrase.

2 Corinthians 13:1
This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.

 Matthew 28:18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 What is that name? Peter gave us the answer.

Acts 2:38
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

 Why would God the Father have to give the authority of the Son back to Himself???

Willy H, you didn't answer the question.

I'll answer yours.  I was retired from the airforce, with a 40% disability.




 

[reFORMer]

Hebrews 5:14
But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

The Judgment is now (good and evil separated).

In Heb 5:14 the word "both" in the phrase "to discern both good and evil" is "besides."  Not only can it be saying maturity is to understand the difference between good and evil; I think more importantly, we are not confronted with a duality here, but that beside the tree of the knowledge of good and evil is another tree:  the tree of life!  Good is the opposite end of the same stick as evil and will beat you to death just as fast regardless which way it is held.  Maturity is authorized to eat of another tree, the tree of life.

The verse (13) before says:  "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe."  Immature people are in the outer court which deals with judgment and cleansing.  Their minds are much exercised about sin.  They see sin and righteousness as a sort of closed system, yin and yang.  They judge by "the law of sin unto death."  Growing more mature by obedient excercise of God's, doing what He says, brings us into exercising authority with Him according to His purpose.  The royal priesthood reigns according to "the law of life and liberty in Christ Jesus."

"But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern besides good and evil."