Author Topic: You can not serve the Lord your God.  (Read 2664 times)

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Offline Peacetroll

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You can not serve the Lord your God.
« on: June 13, 2008, 07:03:46 PM »
What do you believe Joshua was saying to Israel in the following verses? Who is he saying the people were serving and whom he himself was serving?

Joshua 24:15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

19And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.
 
 20If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

 21And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD.

 22And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #1 on: June 13, 2008, 07:27:29 PM »
Jsh 24:23 Now therefore put away, [said he], the strange gods which [are] among you, and incline your heart unto the LORD God of Israel.

Jsh 24:24 And the people said unto Joshua, The LORD our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.


Jsh 24:25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem.

Offline Molly

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #2 on: June 13, 2008, 08:41:07 PM »
Are you saying there are two different Lords in those passages, PT?  My e-sword always defines LORD as the same God there, Y'hovah.

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2008, 09:33:22 PM »
 The people were saying they would serve a God who would not forgive their sins, who would turn and do them hurt. A covenant with death.

Isaiah 28:15
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:

Or as the wisdom of Solomon tells us

WIsdom of Solomon 1:13: For God made not death: neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living.
14: For he created all things, that they might have their being: and the generations of the world were healthful; and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor the kingdom of death upon the earth:
 15: (For righteousness is immortal:)
16: But ungodly men with their works and words called it to them: for when they thought to have it their friend, they consumed to nought, and made a covenant with it, because they are worthy to take part with it.

The one Joshua followed said this of the future.

 Isaiah 10:20And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.

 21The remnant shall return, even the remnant of Jacob, unto the mighty God.


« Last Edit: June 13, 2008, 09:39:22 PM by Peacetroll »
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

martincisneros

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2008, 10:06:20 PM »
This is one of those small handful of places where we're sorta victims of the Hebrew Grammar, and it being just a teeny bit lacking in smoothness when moved over into English.

19And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.
 
 20If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

If we'd been writing the above in English as eye-witnesses of what happened out there that day, here's how we'd of constructed the sentence:

Ye cannot serve the LORD if ye forsake the LORD and serve strange gods: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins, but he will turn and do you hurt and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

Basically, in the Old Testament context, as you know, the penalty for chewing gum in Church was death.  As you read through the Mosaic law: death for this, death for that; death for this, death for that.  That's all that he was saying.  It was a reminder that if they chose to follow the Torah, then the penalty for "treason" would be death.  I could go through the rest of the Old Testament and demonstrate from Ezekiel, the Psalms, and various other passages that each of these death penalties weren't eternal death penalties, but that's not what you were asking.  It's just kinda trippy on the grammar, and even translations like the NASB still make you look at it for a while to unravel what's being said.

Offline Molly

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2008, 10:18:35 PM »
6He has made us competent as ministers of a new covenant—not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.

[The Glory of the New Covenant ]

 7Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious?--2 Cor 3

Offline Taffy

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2008, 10:35:08 PM »
Quote
That's all that he was saying.  It was a reminder that if they chose to follow the Torah, then the penalty for "treason" would be death

 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2008, 10:37:19 PM »
The covenant with death is a covenant with law.  These folks make their own laws that are suitable to them, so they can make a law that stealing brings the death penalty, and because it is a law they think it is righteous for them to carry out the death penalty for stealing on children as young as ten years old.  This is the insanity of the 'rule of law.'  Of course, Joshua knew they would never be able to keep God's law, let alone their own, and thus they would always require the mercy that they refused to give anyone else.  God's laws are at least just, man's laws are not.

[You Who Legislate Evil]

1-4 Doom to you who legislate evil, who make laws that make victims— Laws that make misery for the poor,
   that rob my destitute people of dignity,
Exploiting defenseless widows,
   taking advantage of homeless children.
What will you have to say on Judgment Day,
   when Doomsday arrives out of the blue?
Who will you get to help you?
   What good will your money do you?
A sorry sight you'll be then, huddled with the prisoners,
   or just some corpses stacked in the street.
Even after all this, God is still angry,
   his fist still raised, ready to hit them again.
--Isa 10


This is their covenant with death--their pride in the 'rule of law,' and their eagerness to lord themselves over helpless people using it like a club.  As David says, give me God's justice any day over man's.


Offline Peacetroll

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2008, 11:02:04 PM »
Molly, folks now do exactly what you have said, and rob the poor secretly because it is in their power to do so. Remember this? You KNOW who this family is.

Micah 2
 1Woe to them that devise iniquity, and work evil upon their beds! when the morning is light, they practise it, because it is in the power of their hand.

 2And they covet fields, and take them by violence; and houses, and take them away: so they oppress a man and his house, even a man and his heritage.

 3Therefore thus saith the LORD; Behold, against this family do I devise an evil, from which ye shall not remove your necks; neither shall ye go haughtily: for this time is evil.

 The same family this was said of. The tares.

Deuteronomy 28:43The stranger that is within thee shall get up above thee very high; and thou shalt come down very low.

 44He shall lend to thee, and thou shalt not lend to him: he shall be the head, and thou shalt be the tail.

 But now, the laws given on the mountain were not made up by those who swore to do them, but by the Darkness.

Ezekiel 44:24
And in controversy they shall stand in judgment; and they shall judge it according to my judgments: and they shall keep my laws and my statutes in all mine assemblies; and they shall hallow my sabbaths.

 This lawgiver is who the covenant with Death was sworn to.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline willieH

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2008, 11:06:25 PM »
What do you believe Joshua was saying to Israel in the following verses? Who is he saying the people were serving and whom he himself was serving?

Joshua 24:15And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

19And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve the LORD: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.
 
 20If ye forsake the LORD, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, after that he hath done you good.

 21And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve the LORD.

 22And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you the LORD, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses.

Men being EVIL, of themselves CANNOT serve an HOLY GOD...

Only via the POWER of GOD, which is given BY HIM (via His SON - the WORD) at HIS DESCRETION, in ANY FRAME of TIME, CAN any MAN serve the ONLY GOD... YHVH...

(John 6:44) No man CAN COME  to ME [the WORD], except the FATHER who hath sent ME, DRAW [drag] him, and I will raise him on the last day.

(Ps 19:7) The law [Torah / WORD of GOD] of YHVH is perfect, CONVERTING the SOUL... the TESTIMONY of YHVH is SURE making WISE, the simple [foolish]...

peaCe...
...willieH  :thumbsup:

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2008, 11:20:54 PM »
Ro 8:7 because the disposition of the flesh is enmity to God, for it is not subject to the law of God, for neither is it able.


Jsh 24:19 And Joshua said unto the people,  `You are not able to serve Yahweh, for an Elohim most holy He [is]; a zealous El He [is]; He does not bear with your transgression and with your sins.






Offline Molly

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2008, 11:26:37 PM »
Quote
Molly, folks now do exactly what you have said, and rob the poor secretly because it is in their power to do so.

Yes, they were doing it in Jesus day and they are still doing it.



23 "How terrible for you, teachers of the law and Pharisees! You pretenders! You give God a tenth of your spices, like mint, dill and cummin. But you have not practiced the more important things of the law, like fairness, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the last things without failing to do the first. 24 You blind guides! You remove the smallest insect from your food. But you swallow a whole camel!

 25 "How terrible for you, teachers of the law and Pharisees! You pretenders! You clean the outside of the cup and dish. But on the inside you are full of greed. You only want to satisfy yourselves. 26 Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish. Then the outside will also be clean.

 27 "How terrible for you, teachers of the law and Pharisees! You pretenders! You are like tombs that are painted white. They look beautiful on the outside. But on the inside they are full of the bones of the dead. They are also full of other things that are not pure and clean. 28 It is the same with you. On the outside you seem to be doing what is right. But on the inside you are full of what is wrong. You pretend to be what you are not.
--Matt 23


Offline Peacetroll

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2008, 11:26:56 PM »
What do you think Paul meant in the following?

2 Corinthians 3:7
But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

Who's ministration was that? Not the ministration of Jesus Christ!

2 Corrinthians 3:12Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:

 13And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:

 14But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.

 15But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.


 What is that vail?

Isaiah 25:7And he will destroy in this mountain the face of the covering cast over all people, and the vail that is spread over all nations.

 8He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.


The spotless death of Jesus Christ rent that vail between us and the Father forevermore for we who believe. We may pray boldly to Him, knowing who we pray to.

Matthew 27:51
And, behold, the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom; and the earth did quake, and the rocks rent;

Mark 15:38
And the veil of the temple was rent in twain from the top to the bottom.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 12:10:01 AM by Peacetroll »
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline Molly

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2008, 11:45:24 PM »
PT, but I see the law as a guidepost, yet we always see within the law of God justice and mercy.  It is not an unbending standard without mercy.   Jesus says he is not doing away with the law, he is fulfilling it--because against love there is no law--and those who love their neighbors will always treat them with mercy and justice.  But those who seek to justify themselves with the law cannot see this.



[Laws against usury]


25 "Suppose you lend money to one of my people among you who is in need. Then do not be like those who lend money and charge interest. Do not charge any interest. [someone should show this to the bankers]

 26 "Suppose your neighbor owes you money and gives you a coat as a promise to pay it back. Then return it to him by sunset. 27 That coat is the only thing he owns to wear or sleep in. When he cries out to me, I will listen, because I am loving and kind.


--Exodus 22



35 " 'Suppose one of your own people becomes poor. And suppose he can't take care of himself. Then help him just as you would help an outsider or someone who is living among you for a while. In that way, the man who is poor can continue to live among you.

 36 " 'Do not charge him interest of any kind. Instead, have respect for me. Then the man who has become poor can continue to live among you. 37 If you lend him money, you must not charge him interest. And you must not sell him food for more than it cost you.

--Lev 25


The whole world as we know it would come to a grinding halt if we just practiced these two laws above.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 12:01:10 AM by Molly »

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2008, 11:59:01 PM »
The Most High God's covenant was his friend Abraham, not with Moses on the Mount, the laws/covenenants given on the Mount to Moses were delivered by Death, the covenenant with Death!

 The law could not bring life, therefore I see nothing positive about it's end result.  The laws are good in that they are what we should do...but they were death...because no one but the Most High could fullfill them.  Satan (death) knew this...and so did Jesus Christ (Life). 

The covenenant from death was for his people, his children, those with his nature...just as the promise/covenent to the Most High's children was sealed with Abraham by promise, and completed by the Most High coming down himself to confirm and to prove that the God of This world (Death), was a liar, murderer, and therefore unfit for leadership as well as proving that the only place Death or the Darkness belonged forever away from his and his childrens presence.

Galatians 3
1O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

 2This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 3Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

 4Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.

 5He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

 6Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.

 7Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

 8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

 9So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.

10For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.

 11But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

12And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.

 13Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree:

 14That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

 15Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.

 16Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.

 17And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ,

(you see it was the covenant between God and Abraham that was confirmed by the Most High, the other by implecation was NOT)

the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

 18For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.

 19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

 20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

That 'mediator' who delivered 'the laws' was death.

(Many wonder why God would allow such evil and misery to go on in this world, the fact is that the God of this world is death, he runs the show down here, and thus you have the reason that we have deformed, sick and horrible crime etc. existing in this world..the world that David clearly called..."The valley of the Shadow of Death".)

 21Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.

 22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 12:11:01 AM by Peacetroll »
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline Molly

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #15 on: June 14, 2008, 12:10:11 AM »
Quote
Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;


Right, because you do not need an external law if God has written his law on your heart and mind, and love is the fulfillment of the law.  The legislators of evil have written so many new laws that we are probably breaking them all the time without even knowing it, but whether we keep them or break them has nothing to do with righteousness or truth.



9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.

 10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

 11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
--Hebrews 8



« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 12:24:06 AM by Molly »

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #16 on: June 14, 2008, 12:14:18 AM »
Remember Paul was deceptive, yet true...and we can conclude from Isaiah and Solomon (Wisdom of Solomon), as well as Paul himself (see Galatians verse), that the covenents were handed down NOT by the Love of God which is Christ!

Galatians 3
19Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made (to whom?  To Abraham the promise was made and to the children of Seth ..see Targum of Palestine!); and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

20Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.

Isaiah 28:15
Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves:
 
WIsdom of Solomon 1:13:

For God made not death: neither hath he pleasure in the destruction of the living.

14: For he created all things, that they might have their being: and the generations of the world were healthful; and there is no poison of destruction in them, nor the kingdom of death upon the earth:

(Death is Satan, and God did not make Satan...SEE verse 13 ..back up and read it again!)

 15: (For righteousness is immortal:)

16: But ungodly men with their works and words called it (Death or Satan) to them: for when they thought to have it their friend, they consumed to nought, and made a covenant with it, because they are worthy to take part with it.

And we know that the covenants handed down by Death (or Satan), were for his children..and his children are murderers at heart!


1 John 3:15
Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Jesus (Who IS the Most High in the flesh) did not give out the commandments on the mount...his commandment has always been the same...

John 15:12
This is my commandment, That ye love one another, as I have loved you.

Romans 13:8
Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.

He who loves did not fullfill Deaths commandments, but the Most Highs!

1 John 4:7
Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.

2 John 1:5
And now I beseech thee, lady, not as though I wrote a new commandment unto thee, but that which we had from the beginning, that we love one another.

Who is the 'lady' John spoke of?

the elect lady and her children

Who is the 'lady' supposed to Love?

Paul tells us who this 'lady' is...and if we can, we are to realize that the first commandments were given for one group (tares), another commandment to another (wheat)...both in the name of God, one from darkness, one from the light...

Galatians 4
 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.

 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.

24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar.

 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children.

 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

(obviously Paul didn't mean 'all' people period, he meant all who are in Christ)

 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.

 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.

 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.

How is the bondwoman and her sons (children) cast out?  Jesus tells us...

Matthew 8:12
But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

And who should the freewoman and her children love (the 'lady' spoken of by John)...

1 Peter 2:17
Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.

Who is the true brotherhood???

Matthew 12:50
For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.

Hebrews 2:11
For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren,

« Last Edit: June 14, 2008, 12:38:53 AM by Peacetroll »
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline Molly

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Re: You can not serve the Lord your God.
« Reply #17 on: June 14, 2008, 01:25:46 AM »
These are the children of the freewoman--

Romans 4:13
For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.


Like Isaac, we are the miracle children of the promise.  We are the seed of Abraham with whom the everlasting covenant was made.


But look at this--did we start out  that way?--



1Now I say, That the heir, as long as he is a child, differeth nothing from a servant, though he be lord of all;

 2But is under tutors and governors until the time appointed of the father.

 3Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements of the world:

 4But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law,

 5To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.

 6And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

7Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.


--Galatians 4