Author Topic: The famous Unpardonable sin  (Read 3911 times)

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martincisneros

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The famous Unpardonable sin
« on: April 12, 2008, 01:21:16 PM »
Unpardonable doesn't mean unforgivable.  It just means that it can't be passed over with a simple act of forgiveness because of how horrendous of a crime involved.  If you've got a little kid that plays with a basketball in your house, inspite of your telling them not to, and they unwittingly break $100,000 worth of China, then you've got two options:  take it out of their hide via the withholding of allowances and provisions until the debt is paid, or take it out of your own hide and simply go and buy $250,000 worth of China so that the memory of the new surpasses the grief over the lost old stuff that may have had sentimental value, heirloom qualities, etc.  Forgiveness is EASY, but restitution is a different subject.

Another way of looking at it is that if you view the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit as being the attributing of the work of God to the work of Satan, then it would be like unforgiveness to where God couldn't forgive you WHILE you're still practicing this particular form of blasphemy.  Other sins, even against one's own bodily temple, God can forgive and work with you and work with you and work with you to bring you past that to where through sanctifying grace you're weaned from that (Hebrews 5:11-14), but while you're still thinking that every time He's approaching you that it's the Devil at work, then how could the offense cease in God's Heart?  If you're still equating Him with the mystery of iniquity, the father of lies, the murderer from the beginning, and accusing His works of being rooted in pride -- when He came to annul iniquity, pride, lies, the murderer, etc., then not only are you faithless and not allowing His Word to abide in you, but you're breaking down your own spirit which is your only way of conscious contact with Him.  Proverbs says that perverseness and profanity plucks up, breaks down, overthrows, destroys, and brings disaster to your own spirit.  James in his epistle warns against deceiving your own heart.  If you ever start attributing the works of God to the works of the devil, then you're essentially fulfilling what the Devil was after in the beginning with exalting him above the stars of God, exalting his throne over New Jerusalem, etc.  It's a viscious cycle of deception and self deception that religious people can get into because of their religion. 

So, ultimately, consequently, and inevitably, you could say that religion is the one sin that can never be pardoned because it does all of these things.

Elhanan Winchester in his dialogues on the Universal Restoration staked everything with regards to this sin to the fact that the lake of fire judgment was the second death, and St. Paul taught that there would come a time [in distant ages] when death would be abolished -- when all corruption will have put on incorruption, according to Thomas Whittemore's Plain Guide to Universalism; when all of the promises of restoration [that yet remained to be fulfilled after all of the promises of damnation and destruction had been fulfilled] would finally be fulfilled.  All of the promises of destruction and of restoration have to be fulfilled, according to Calvinism Improved by Joseph Huntington.  And if God's not happy with what He fishes out of the Lake of Fire in that day, in any particular instance, then He'll just throw it back in again and again and again -- however many times it takes, until His work on His pottery is accomplished, according to Charles Chauncy's book, Mystery Hid From Ages And Generations.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2008, 01:27:39 PM by martincisneros »

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2008, 08:51:38 PM »
No mortal man can commit the unpardonable sin. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, God's working Power, and fool people that it is God doing it.Only the antichrist can do this by the power of the Dragon. The decieved will think he is Christ.

Revelation 13:11And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

 12And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

 13And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

 14And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast;
saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline studier

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2008, 10:58:08 PM »
PT, I can see absolutely no relation in what you presented  in response to what Martin presented.

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2008, 12:38:09 AM »
Ofcourse you can't.
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline studier

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2008, 01:08:27 AM »
That is because it has nothing to do with anything, PT. What you see, is all in your imagination. It isn't real.

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2008, 06:18:16 PM »
We'll soon see. Do you think YOU can blaspheme the Holy Spirit? You don't know what it takes to do that evil. What do you believe it is?? Cursing Him??
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline studier

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2008, 08:04:49 PM »
So you are saying you know what it takes to do evil?

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2008, 09:45:10 PM »
I'm saying I KNOW what blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is, do you?
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Offline studier

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #8 on: June 09, 2008, 03:59:48 AM »
Yep. That is why I know, what you said has nothing to do with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, I have no basis to say it, think a bit before responding.

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #9 on: June 09, 2008, 05:25:34 PM »
 :2c:
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

martincisneros

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2008, 09:27:23 AM »
 :hijacked: :mrflo: :mock: :pointlaugh: :LH: :rolllol: :eek: :wacko2: :tease: :btongue: :fool: :doh: :blahgreen: :blah: :BangHead:

Offline fullarmor2

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #11 on: July 02, 2008, 08:51:56 AM »
     I had some thoughts on this topic the last couple weeks.    In the scriptures on this topic,  Jesus is talking to people who are under the law and not grace first of all. I think remembering this fact is very important to understanding what Jesus was talking about.  Now why were these folks accusing Jesus of being of Satan? It was because they rejected Jesus.  Their rejection was the root of the problem. It being caused by their religious traditions and blindness.  I think Jesus is saying that when a person knows of Jesus,  and rejects,  and are consequently rebellious enough to blaspheme they are not going to receive forgiveness or salvation. NOT because God will not forgive them. But rather because THEY reject Jesus.  People who are that hostile towards Christ are likely to never come to faith and forgiveness in this life.   I think Jesus was speaking against rejection and ignorance of the Truth,  because its these which prevent people from experiencing salvation, grace, or forgiveness.  And  when Jesus said this sin "has no forgiveness in the World to come"   I think it means two things. First,  it refers to rebellious people who died and still have not repented, so they do not experience forgiveness.  UNTIL they come to a knowledge of the truth by God's grace. God is a God of the "until"!  Somethings can seem set in stone, or unchangeable, or unforgivable,   but only "until"  God gets involved and fulfills his plan and purpose!  And second,  I think the statement is also prophetic and referring to some rebellion perhaps in the next World.   
For all those who live in the shadow of death,  a glorious light has dawned!  And for all those who stumble in the darkness,   behold,   your light has come!!

Offline studier

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #12 on: July 02, 2008, 05:57:02 PM »
Their is a third age, after the age to come. It is when Jesus hands over the kingdom to the Father after the 1000 year reign. Then again, it says Jesus is the consummation of ages, means the ages end in Him, and therefore nullifying the "this age and age to come" logic. :P

Offline Reverend G

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #13 on: July 02, 2008, 11:18:40 PM »
A bit off the subject, but is any sin really "atoneable".  If we are expected to live sinless and perfect, and sin is straying from this, how does one atone?  Can one be "more than perfect" to make up for shortcomings?

I dare say "NO".  To that end, we can never "work" off our sins.  We can only be pardoned.  Our strayings are always forgiven by He who is all loving.  There, I brought myself back on subject.....no sin is unpardonable.

Offline fullarmor2

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #14 on: July 02, 2008, 11:41:16 PM »
     How can the unpardonable or unforgivable  sin be anything other than rejection of Jesus, which is what leads to blasphemy?  Rejecting Jesus is what prevents a person from experiencing God's forgiveness.
   It doesn't make sense that God would never forgive blasphemy when its committed   by people who simply do not know the truth about Christ. That would be like punishing a blind man for being blind!  The scriptures must mean that those who blaspheme will never be forgiven until they repent and accept Jesus. 
        It is religion which has taken what Jesus had to say on this topic and has made a big deal out of it. Misunderstanding what Jesus meant.  Understanding  what Jesus said in a way that contradicts other parts of the Gospel.  Not the first time religion has done this though!  Probably not the last either.
« Last Edit: July 03, 2008, 01:36:26 AM by fullarmor2 »
For all those who live in the shadow of death,  a glorious light has dawned!  And for all those who stumble in the darkness,   behold,   your light has come!!

Offline anti_nietzsche

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2008, 07:57:17 AM »
I've heard a lutheran friend say that the real unforgivable sin is not believing in forgiveness.

When you have the Holy Spirit, you have what it needs to be forgiven and, particularly, to be restored. Just continue to trust in forgiveness - but not in the human sense where you apologize and it's all good immediately, but in the christian sense which means that God wants to build you up in love so that you are restored and then will become so healthy that the same sin doesn't happen a second time.

My big problem was that I had started to fear the Holy Spirit. I felt, if it so easy that bad thoughts slip by, then I should stay away from the Holy Spirit lest I would blaspheme Him again and again. But that was utterly wrong. A christian must live in very close community with the Holy Spirit. He is to us what Jesus was to His disciples. A guide and a comforter. He also leads us into all truth as far as Jesus is concerned. I used to always want Jesus around, but it is by the Holy Spirit that Jesus is around. I love Jesus a lot, but I must learn to love the Holy Spirit.

What I rely on much is God's peace, patience and longsuffering. If you are a believer, it takes MUCH to make God really angry. God is way greater than our hearts.

It's quickening to experience the power of the Holy Spirit.

I have the gift of tongues, and in a bad time at the beginning of this year, I prayed much and one day noticed that I was always saying "dassela wodka". I suspected before that my tongue praying sounds like a russian dialect. I wondered what the words meant, until I realized that "wodka" means water. Jesus calls the Holy Spirit living water. And Spirit also means life. So I learned to trust both in the Holy Spirit, and in life. I pray much in tongues, and the sound of it always amazes me. It's so friendly, peaceful and loving.

It's like standing in a warm waterfall that I can enter whenever I want, I need but to trust in the Holy Spirit and pray in tongues.

So whoever fears this blasphemy, the resolution is to get closer and closer to the Holy Spirit. You must be a little courageous. God will NOT condemn you if a bad thought slips by, although you have to stand against that. Whenever you have bad thoughts, say loudly, "Those are evil thoughts!". Don't identify so much with your thoughts. That means, don't think too highly of yourself when you have splendid thoughts, and don't think too badly of yourself if you have an evil thought. Be like a kid and simply throw bad thoughts away without worrying. And never eat the trouble inside of yourself, talk about such matters quickly - the more quickly they are resolved. That is repentance like God wants it, and wherever there is repentance, there is forgiveness and quick healing following.

God bless!

autoimmune

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Re: The famous Unpardonable sin
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2008, 04:20:22 AM »
My 2 cents on the unforgivable sin:

After Jesus rose, He appeared to his apostles, blew on them, and said that whatever they loosed (forgave) on earth was loosed (forgiven) in heaven. Whatever they bound on earth was bound in heaven.

We are told in several places that in the end those of us in Christ will judge the world.

When He blew on them, Christ was giving his followers the authority they would need to do that.

People think the "unforgivable sin" is one that cannot be forgiven, ever, in any way.

I believe it simply means that a sin against the Holy Spirit is the only one Christ's apostles (and other later members of the Body) do not have the authority or power to loose or bind through Christ's presence in us. In essence, it is "unforgivable" in that respect.

We will be able to loose or bind any sin by MAN against man. But only the Holy Spirit, who was the one grieved, has the power to forgive or bind a sin by man against Him, God's Spirit.

pax,
Mary Ellen