Author Topic: Revelation 21 and 22  (Read 2894 times)

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Offline CrossoverManiac

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Revelation 21 and 22
« on: September 16, 2012, 09:15:46 PM »
Revelation 21 and 22 says that the fearful, liars, idolters, etc will not enter into the New Jerusalem.  I've heard the Lake of Fire=refining fire of 1 Corinthians 3, but there's nothing in there that indicates the outcasts are made into the children of God and have their names written into the Book of Life.  Am I missing something?  There's still verses like 1 Timothy 4:10 showing salvation by all, but how does these verses and the last two chapters of Revelation fit together?

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2012, 10:57:35 PM »
My   :2c:

If you read Revelation you read about a whole lot of events. Wars. Resurrections. Judgements. And New Jerusalem coming down to earth. Obviously those INSIDE New Jerusalem are the saints. The saved ones.
But Jesus offers living water and leaves that heal the nations.
The people inside don't need such things. They already reached their saved and everlasting glorious state.
It's an offer for those outside.
Kings enter the city. It's near bedtime for me so I don't have time to look up verse and defenitions, but the Greek wording points to army like events. It's not just the kings visiting. It are kings with their whole nations.
And obviously not to wage war otherwise the Bible would end with the fall of New Jerusalem.
Inside + coming inside = all

Also read my scriblings here: http://tentmaker.org/forum/bible-verses-used-to-assert-not-all-will-be-saved/hebrews-927-after-death-comes-judgement/msg122137/#msg122137
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline CHB

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2012, 11:06:20 PM »
[quoteauthor crossoverManiac]
Revelation 21 and 22 says that the fearful, liars, idolters, etc will not enter into the New Jerusalem.[/quote]

None of these will enter the New Jerusalem, but that doesn't mean they won't once they are purified, of all these things.
When all is said and done God will be all IN ALL. That says it all.  :girlheart:

CHB

Offline sheila

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2012, 11:28:58 PM »
I beleive the purification process is Jesus and angels seperating the people one from another...goats/sheep wheat/tares....with scapegoats/tares/goats

  being burned...wicked tool no longer serve it's purpose and burned.   tie them in bundles for burning.........All men have tares sown in their field

   we all have an old man of sin son of perdition due for death....and a sheep/lamb saved of Christ that enters the city....

   scapegoat is to perish and never enter the holy city...scapegoat sent away to perish and seperated is Jesus Christ appearing again

   apart from sin

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2012, 11:32:47 PM »
So, Sheila, basicly you are saying everyone is two goats and/or a sheep and goat?
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline sheila

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2012, 11:43:14 PM »
 a sheep and a goat....  good evil mix  til no longer applicable and adversarial tool discarded....

/ now  some may be a little more 'smellier" a goat that others!!!.....the GOOD SHEPHERD SAYS  'COME INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED

  FOR YOU TO THE SHEEP'   and does away with the son of perdition or lawless ones..when He denies them in front of His angels...and they are bound up

  to be burnt in the lake of fire.....  .

Offline lomarah

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2012, 01:12:40 AM »
a sheep and a goat....  good evil mix  til no longer applicable and adversarial tool discarded....

/ now  some may be a little more 'smellier" a goat that others!!!.....the GOOD SHEPHERD SAYS  'COME INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED

  FOR YOU TO THE SHEEP'   and does away with the son of perdition or lawless ones..when He denies them in front of His angels...and they are bound up

  to be burnt in the lake of fire.....  .

 :laughing7:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #7 on: September 17, 2012, 08:32:49 AM »
a sheep and a goat....  good evil mix  til no longer applicable and adversarial tool discarded....

/ now  some may be a little more 'smellier" a goat that others!!!.....the GOOD SHEPHERD SAYS  'COME INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED

  FOR YOU TO THE SHEEP'   and does away with the son of perdition or lawless ones..when He denies them in front of His angels...and they are bound up

  to be burnt in the lake of fire.....  .
The stuff with goats is that the OT teaches God accepts them as an offer. So they can't be bad?
Goats are used on the day of Atonement. One of the, if not the, most holy days of the year. They can't be so bad then?

I didn't really look into this but a goat is a desert (Exodus) animal. When  the Jews arrived in Jerusalem they switched to sheep? As said I haven't really looked into it so I could be wrong. If not can it be that goats represent old habbits. Wrong side of the Jordan.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #8 on: September 17, 2012, 08:35:52 AM »
a sheep and a goat....  good evil mix  til no longer applicable and adversarial tool discarded....

/ now  some may be a little more 'smellier" a goat that others!!!.....the GOOD SHEPHERD SAYS  'COME INHERIT THE KINGDOM PREPARED

  FOR YOU TO THE SHEEP'   and does away with the son of perdition or lawless ones..when He denies them in front of His angels...and they are bound up

  to be burnt in the lake of fire.....  .

 :laughing7:


Lomarah  :laugh:
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline lomarah

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #9 on: September 17, 2012, 09:00:06 AM »
HAHAHAHAHAHA you bugger!!  :rolllol:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline sheila

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #10 on: September 17, 2012, 06:09:48 PM »
   goats li8ke to lead...sheep are followers..thus the need for the good shepherd.  goats even prefer thorns and briars to munch on and

  do quite well...not so sheep.  goat hair..due to it's manner of composition  is not so easily trapped and bound in thornbushes and briars...sheep

   can become trapped easily and bound in such conditionds....and die.

    scapegoat and atonement day...High preist takes and transfe3rs all Isreal's sins onto selected scapegoat..and sends it away to perish in the wilderness

  thus signifying the generation of the wicked one that does not enterinto the Holy city/promised land etc

 


Offline rosered

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #11 on: September 17, 2012, 06:23:20 PM »
   goats li8ke to lead...sheep are followers..thus the need for the good shepherd.  goats even prefer thorns and briars to munch on and

  do quite well...not so sheep.  goat hair..due to it's manner of composition  is not so easily trapped and bound in thornbushes and briars...sheep

   can become trapped easily and bound in such conditionds....and die.

    scapegoat and atonement day...High preist takes and transfe3rs all Isreal's sins onto selected scapegoat..and sends it away to perish in the wilderness

  thus signifying the generation of the wicked one that does not enterinto the Holy city/promised land etc

 
:thumbsup:

  Goats by their very nature  are different  on many scales  compared to sheep 
 goats are smarter to their  surroundings and pillage able to jump and climb  going off alone   many times  and can surive , where as sheep are not as smart and wander more into danger  and not as agile  and more  prone to being prey when alone  and not with a flock  :dunno2:

Offline sheila

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #12 on: September 17, 2012, 06:34:59 PM »
yeah...the Word of God says that the children of the light are not as wise as the kingdom of darkness...spoken in the parable of the unjust steward

    thus we are cautioned to be wise as serpents" yet innocent as doves.....

     

Offline marie glen

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2012, 11:15:06 PM »
What people do not understand.. they think UR is a belief that folks will "inherit eternal life" if they do not "believe" in  the Lord Jesus. This, is not the point at all, of course! But! Everyone completely misses the fact that there will be two resurrections. There's the first one of all believers, then 1000 or so years later there is the second which is of all those who have never believed or perhaps even ever heard. The Bible itself says "how will they believe if they do not hear?"
 - Now my logic rests upon the Hebrew spring and fall holy days, for you see if the spring ones prophesied and fulfilled the first advent of Jesus, then surely, the fall holy days prophecy and will be fulfilled by the long 2nd advent of Jesus. Notice the numbers. The ancient and original fall holy days are #1-Trumpets, then 1O days later #2-Day of Atonement, then 5 days later, #3-Tabernacles. Now the peaks of the long 2nd advent are - #1-trumpet blown, angels sent forth to gather his elect from the four directions of the earth (& 1st resurrection of dead believers) then 1OOO years later, #2-Day of Judgement, if "1O days" in this prophecy equates to the 1OOO year millenium, then the "5 days" between Judgment day and Tabernacles-Revelation 21:3(KJ "God will Tabernacle with man") is 5OO years, making judgment day a long day of the review of all things, all human history, etc, lasting roughly 5OO years. Then note, the notorious words "those not believing will go to the 2nd death" is not said until all who have ever lived have experienced, #1, being resurrected out of their grave or the sea, etc.. and #2, have lived through, experienced and witnessed the long day of judgment. Who, after all that, isn't going to believe? This makes (surprise!) the day of judgment to actually be a GReat Day of Atonement!!
 - Besides, God can only be perfect, and perfection makes no mistakes! He, himself indirectly created all evil when he endowed thinking ability to angel and man, but hey, would we prefer to be a robot?? And since He did open the Pandora's box of choice, a by product of being able to think, he built the rescue into everything from the very beginning.. "from the foundation of the world". :Peace2:
- Is it written? no repentance after death? if resurrected still in ones sins (2nd Resurrection) will be weeping and wailing? Holy Days - Trumpets, Atonement, Tabernacles prophecy the three peaks of His long 2nd advent? Is weeping & wailing the beginning of the redemptive process?
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- "...aLL things new" Rev21:5 "A new heavens and a new earth" Rev 21:1 - Is 11:7 Micah 4:4 Is 30:25
http://www.bubblews.com/news/9080033 -revelation told in rhyme - 45 days

Offline englishman

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Re: Revelation 21 and 22
« Reply #14 on: April 30, 2013, 02:47:09 AM »
Admittedly I have only glossed over the posts Crossover M, when I read Revelation 21, the first few verses are about the new heavens and new earth, this points to the final fulfillment there is no death anymore, not even second death, God has wiped the tears from everyones eyes, the heavens and the earth and its subjects are completely renewed, the end of verse 4, the former things have passed away.

I believe verse 6, Is Jesus speaking in the present, to the reader the one wanting to discern, he is giving instruction to remind us that all will have to be clean, I will give of the fountain of the water of life freely to him who thirsts, by comparison those who carry on acting wickedly will learn the hard way, like us now if we continue to sin, his fire will keep on purging us and we will have to come back to his word his living water and allow his spirit to clean us. The subject changes again to the glory of the City of God  and it will not be seen by the wicked. Chapter 22, Shows the blessing that comes from that city and the throne of God and the lamb, from verse 7 onward Jesus, was carrying on his admonition for all to seek life and to not be outside the City Of God.

An the Spirit and the bride say come :declare: