Author Topic: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture  (Read 226 times)

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Online Seth

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Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« on: December 18, 2014, 08:46:43 PM »
This might be a topic having already been discussed but, the famous phrase "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" has usually been understood to mean that there is a "conscious literal torment" in literal fire. I always assumed the same when I was in ET. But when Christ uses the phrase "gnashing of teeth" I submit that it does not suggest a gritting of teeth due to physical pain or torture. Rather, the term is a figure of speech meaning to be mocking, or to be set against. Here are more examples from the OT:

Psalm 35
16 Like the ungodly they maliciously mocked; they gnashed their teeth at me.

Job 16:9
God assails me and tears me in his anger and gnashes his teeth at me; my opponent fastens on me his piercing eyes.

Lamentations 2
16 All your enemies open their mouths wide against you; they scoff and gnash their teeth and say, "We have swallowed her up. This is the day we have waited for; we have lived to see it."


In Christ's parables, he says that there shall be "gnashing of teeth" in the "outer darkness." But, Christ himself also says that "men love the darkness" and they do not come into the light, for fear that their wicked works will be exposed. I believe that when anyone is cut off from the blessings of Life (the Spirit) "gnashing of teeth" is an expression for the way that the carnal man is set against God in his nature. I believe that the Prodigal Son gnashed his teeth against God's way for a while in his own actions, his sin, not literally because he was being tortured.

Paul warned "God will not be mocked." Another way of saying that is that God will not allow people to gnash their teeth at him by trodding under foot the son of God through willful sinning. I believe that God's method to deal with that, is to allow the sin to naturally bring them to a low place and thus to lead them to repentance.

Offline rosered

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2014, 09:12:04 PM »
 
 I agree Seth


Acts 7
 
 54Now when they heard this, they were cut to the quick, and they began gnashing their teeth at him. 55But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God;
 
 also means  enraged angry and frustration of   failure
 
 I believe     many "become angry  when they have no control  "    over   what they believe they do have control over
 power  tripping
Jesus is the reward  !!

Online Seth

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2014, 09:13:26 PM »
 :iagree:

Offline Tom

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2014, 09:46:59 PM »
This might be a topic having already been discussed but, the famous phrase "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth" has usually been understood to mean that there is a "conscious literal torment" in literal fire. I always assumed the same when I was in ET. But when Christ uses the phrase "gnashing of teeth" I submit that it does not suggest a gritting of teeth due to physical pain or torture. Rather, the term is a figure of speech meaning to be mocking, or to be set against. Here are more examples from the OT:

Psalm 35
16 Like the ungodly they maliciously mocked; they gnashed their teeth at me.

Job 16:9
God assails me and tears me in his anger and gnashes his teeth at me; my opponent fastens on me his piercing eyes.

Lamentations 2
16 All your enemies open their mouths wide against you; they scoff and gnash their teeth and say, "We have swallowed her up. This is the day we have waited for; we have lived to see it."


In Christ's parables, he says that there shall be "gnashing of teeth" in the "outer darkness." But, Christ himself also says that "men love the darkness" and they do not come into the light, for fear that their wicked works will be exposed. I believe that when anyone is cut off from the blessings of Life (the Spirit) "gnashing of teeth" is an expression for the way that the carnal man is set against God in his nature. I believe that the Prodigal Son gnashed his teeth against God's way for a while in his own actions, his sin, not literally because he was being tortured.

Paul warned "God will not be mocked." Another way of saying that is that God will not allow people to gnash their teeth at him by trodding under foot the son of God through willful sinning. I believe that God's method to deal with that, is to allow the sin to naturally bring them to a low place and thus to lead them to repentance.

I think "gnashing of teeth" could be considered literally too, bro, because I think it simply means grinding your teeth due to anxiety, fear, anger, etc., but I understand what you're saying. I think the only reason it's associated with torture is because it's just another example of how folks who believe that make false assumptions about a lot of things they read that those of us who now know the truth interpret completely differently. I kind of doubt anybody getting tortured is just going to grind their teeth because I think they'll probably be hollering especially if you're talking about be burned in fire forever while you're alive never able to die from it like you would in a minute in the real world. It's just crazy to think a soul which is not a material thing could burn forever especially because scripture says souls die (Ezekiel 18:4,20).

Offline joeteekay

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2014, 09:56:32 PM »
A few quick thoughts:

I thought the weeping and gnashing of teeth could also refer to those who initially experience the LoF in the White Throne Judgement. Those really rebellious against God would wake up and may initially be angry, but they also weep (lament). Those described in Acts 7 do not weep at all.

And the scriptures also refer to being "cast" or "thrust" (G1544) which would be an occurrence of something being expelled. Into the LoF?

I can see this as being figurative in Matthew and Luke as told by Christ. But I cannot see the connection between outer darkness and the LoF. Darkness befor the occurence of the LoF???

 :dontknow:

3 John 4 - I have no greater joy than to hear that my children walk in truth.

Offline rosered

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2014, 10:05:11 PM »
Quote
I think "gnashing of teeth" could be considered literally too, bro, because I think it simply means grinding your teeth due to anxiety, fear, anger, etc., but I understand what you're saying. I think the only reason it's associated with torture is because it's just another example of how folks who believe that make false assumptions about a lot of things they read that those of us who now know the truth interpret completely differently. I kind of doubt anybody getting tortured is just going to grind their teeth because I think they'll probably be hollering especially if you're talking about be burned in fire forever while you're alive never able to die from it like you would in a minute in the real world. It's just crazy to think a soul which is not a material thing could burn forever especially because scripture says souls die (Ezekiel 18:4,20).

 Hi Tom
  I know what you are saying and   believe that    in the literal sense to with a literal body     in the here and now phase of  learning righteousness 
 

 and I do believe there will be a   huge frustration  in the core of their being when the realize what they have done
   the man of sin/ Lawless one  is  going to suffer loss   , great losses     and that will cause  EXTREME  agony   

  there is a  lot more to human beings that the   outer shell   , the flesh amounts  to  nothing  with  God and whatever the flesh works are as dead/ nothing  to HIM  as well
 
 
Jesus is the reward  !!

Online Seth

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2014, 10:05:19 PM »
A few quick thoughts:

I thought the weeping and gnashing of teeth could also refer to those who initially experience the LoF in the White Throne Judgement. Those really rebellious against God would wake up and may initially be angry, but they also weep (lament). Those described in Acts 7 do not weep at all.

And the scriptures also refer to being "cast" or "thrust" (G1544) which would be an occurrence of something being expelled. Into the LoF?

I can see this as being figurative in Matthew and Luke as told by Christ. But I cannot see the connection between outer darkness and the LoF. Darkness befor the occurence of the LoF???

 :dontknow:



I personally believe that darkness and the LOF are associated by the kind of death Paul describes in Timothy.

1 Tim 5:6
The widow who seeks after pleasure is dead though she lives.


I associate "gnashing of teeth" with how Paul said that "you were enemies of God in your mind through wicked works." I believe the LOF symbolizes that kind of death and to me goes along with gnashing of teeth in that way. Those who trod the son of God underfoot I believe are essentially mocking him, or gnashing their teeth against him.


Offline rosered

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2014, 10:14:52 PM »
A few quick thoughts:

I thought the weeping and gnashing of teeth could also refer to those who initially experience the LoF in the White Throne Judgement. Those really rebellious against God would wake up and may initially be angry, but they also weep (lament). Those described in Acts 7 do not weep at all.

And the scriptures also refer to being "cast" or "thrust" (G1544) which would be an occurrence of something being expelled. Into the LoF?

I can see this as being figurative in Matthew and Luke as told by Christ. But I cannot see the connection between outer darkness and the LoF. Darkness befor the occurence of the LoF???

 :dontknow:



I personally believe that darkness and the LOF are associated by the kind of death Paul describes in Timothy.

1 Tim 5:6
The widow who seeks after pleasure is dead though she lives.


I associate "gnashing of teeth" with how Paul said that "you were enemies of God in your mind through wicked works." I believe the LOF symbolizes that kind of death and to me goes along with gnashing of teeth in that way. Those who trod the son of God underfoot I believe are essentially mocking him, or gnashing their teeth against him.

  The widow   to me is   Babylon         you have   a name   that you are alive but are dead


Rev 3 "To the angel of the church in Sardis write: He who has the seven Spirits of God and the seven stars, says this:


'I know your deeds, that you have a name that you are alive, but you are dead.


2'Wake up, and strengthen the things that remain, which were about to die; for I have not found your deeds completed in the sight of My God.
 
  dead works are flesh works  always in error and sin seeking the praises of men and Not God   making them dead  in Gods eyes  , He is the God of the living  not the dead 
 
 Gal 3
 
 2This is the only thing I want to find out from you: did you receive the Spirit by the works of the Law, or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4Did you suffer so many things in vain-- if indeed it was in vain?




7"Yet you said, 'I will be a queen forever.' These things you did not consider Nor remember the outcome of them. 8"Now, then, hear this, you sensual one, Who dwells securely, Who says in your heart, 'I am, and there is no one besides me. I will not sit as a widow, Nor know loss of children.' 9"But these two things will come on you suddenly in one day: Loss of children and widowhood. They will come on you in full measure In spite of your many sorceries, In spite of the great power of your spells.

Revelation 18:7
Give her as much torment and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself. In her heart she boasts, 'I sit enthroned as queen. I am not a widow; I will never mourn.'
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 12:56:04 AM by rosered »
Jesus is the reward  !!

Offline sheila

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2014, 10:40:45 PM »
my  :2c:  the tax collectors and harlots are entering the kingdom ahead of you...you don't go in and hinder those who attempt.

  it was the self-righteous hypocritical religious leaders that gnashed their teeth at Him...and were 'cut off' from the way of peace

  with God. there is a demonic self-righteous evil spirit..that appears as an angel of light[religious leader sitting on

throne..showing himself he is god]

   the demon said...'I know who you are Jesus,did you come to torment us before the time"   blind captive men are led astray

  of this religious evil spirit...they will kill you and think they are doing a service for God...  the Lord will do away this man

 of sin[he is not a man of God!] with the breath of HIS COMING IN POWER AND GLORY

Offline sheila

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2014, 10:45:48 PM »
Please note the above mentioned religious spirit was sitting in the congregation when the Christ was speaking about setting the

 captives free...........and note it's immediate objection.  we see this today..when by the spirit[of Christ] we proclaim the

salvation deliverance of all men...a good news gospel of grace........

Offline sheila

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2014, 10:56:51 PM »
...transgressing of the law had a built in covenant curse..of demonic possessed children.......Jesus message of comfort grace and

 forgiveness with healing to man was not happily received.  His authority over all...meant the authority of the evil spirits to

   plague man and all covenant curses of death through disobedience were finished.

     I will not always be wrathful..for then the very spirit would fail......

        O'death where is thy sting! O'death I SHALL BE THY PLAGUES.................Kingdom of darkness..........Kingdom of light

    a great light has come! when God causes His face to shine upon men.......

          HALLELUJAH!

Offline Tom

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2014, 11:00:45 PM »
A few quick thoughts:

I thought the weeping and gnashing of teeth could also refer to those who initially experience the LoF in the White Throne Judgement. Those really rebellious against God would wake up and may initially be angry, but they also weep (lament). Those described in Acts 7 do not weep at all.

And the scriptures also refer to being "cast" or "thrust" (G1544) which would be an occurrence of something being expelled. Into the LoF?

I can see this as being figurative in Matthew and Luke as told by Christ. But I cannot see the connection between outer darkness and the LoF. Darkness befor the occurence of the LoF???

 :dontknow:

I think the outer darkness is referring to exactly that because I think the kingdom of the heavens will be in Jerusalem where there will plenty of light, but those cast outside will not experience that. I don't think this has anything to do with the lake of fire.

Offline sheila

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2014, 11:03:51 PM »
...and they surrounded the camp of the Holy city  He loves...and fire come down from heaven and devoured[consumed] them

Online Seth

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2014, 11:41:22 PM »

  dead works are flesh works  always in error and sin seeking the praises of men and Not God   making them dead  in Gods eyes  , He is the God of the living  not the dead


Yes! I totally agree.

Galatians 5
19The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Online Seth

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2014, 11:43:27 PM »
my  :2c:  the tax collectors and harlots are entering the kingdom ahead of you...you don't go in and hinder those who attempt.

  it was the self-righteous hypocritical religious leaders that gnashed their teeth at Him...and were 'cut off' from the way of peace

  with God. there is a demonic self-righteous evil spirit..that appears as an angel of light[religious leader sitting on

throne..showing himself he is god]

   the demon said...'I know who you are Jesus,did you come to torment us before the time"   blind captive men are led astray

  of this religious evil spirit...they will kill you and think they are doing a service for God...  the Lord will do away this man

 of sin[he is not a man of God!] with the breath of HIS COMING IN POWER AND GLORY

I agree. What I believe happens to the harlot when she enters the kingdom is salvation from harlotry. And the reason I believe some of the Pharisees did not enter the kingdom, is because they didn't think they were sick. Or at least they attempted to hide their sickness because men love the darkness and do not come into the light, for fear that their works will be exposed. A physician comes to heal the sick, not the well.

Blessed are they who hunger and thirst for righteousness for they shall be filled.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2014, 11:54:09 PM by Seth »

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2014, 12:45:45 AM »
my  :2c:  the tax collectors and harlots are entering the kingdom ahead of you...you don't go in and hinder those who attempt.

  it was the self-righteous hypocritical religious leaders that gnashed their teeth at Him...and were 'cut off' from the way of peace

 the demon said...'I know who you are Jesus,did you come to torment us before the time"   

  of this religious evil spirit...they will kill you and think they r doing God a service

I see and agree that gnashing of teeth is an expression of anger and dismay. The wicked gnash their teeth upon the rigjteous but the Lord delivers the righteous and reproves the wicked. These reproofs come in this life and in the age to come as well. The last adversary is death. As long as there is death their will be some other as yet unsubjected, ungathered in adversaries gnashing their teeth (Eph 1, 1Cor 15, Phil 2:10,11) :2c:
« Last Edit: December 19, 2014, 12:55:15 AM by eaglesway »
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Offline micah7:9

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2014, 01:20:51 AM »
 :2c: :thumbsup:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Online Seth

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Re: Gnashing of teeth does not suggest torture
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2014, 04:29:23 AM »
 :iagree: