Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Bible Threatenings Explained

No man enters heaven

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Nathan:
I've heard this comment made from time to time in various conversations over the couple of years I've been on the forum and I guess originally it just struck me kinda funny that there are those who actually beleive that when one dies, one doesn't go to heaven . . .I'm a bit baffled by this due to the understanding that there are only two places where we exist, spirit or flesh and heaven is clearly not flesh which leaves it to be in the spirit . . .so when our spirits leave our mortal bodies, how can we "not" pass on into heaven?

There are a couple of passages that seem to me, to clearly affirm this.  One of which is Hebrews 12, which is actually the conclusion of chapter 11's thought.  But it's speaking to us being surrounded by a cloud of witnesses, we can't see them because we're still in this flesh, yet they're there . . .how can they "not" be in heaven and yet be in a heavenly state?  For me, heaven isn't so much a literal place as it is the spiritual realm opposite of "this" realm.  The other passage is where Paul talks about when he's no longer "here" he'll be with the Lord . . .either "here" or "there" which again seems to be clearly stating that we "do" go to heaven once our lives in this realm are complete.

Throw me a bone here if ya would.

Lefein:
Our life is hidden away with (in) Christ - who is Life.  We are one with him here and now, and forever more, we are his body afterall.  When we leave our fleshly fallen tent, that fleshly fallen tent which acts as a barrier or veil between us and the Lord (unlike our glorified bodies which will be sinless, and not like the flesh with which we wrestle with now) will be no longer a barrier, and we will behold our Lord with a more wholesome clarity.  And we will be with him, and more aware of being with him in and as spirit than we were in beholding and experiencing him through the veil of our flesh.

I like to say this - "Where ever Christ is, Heaven is also"

We are seated in heavenly places, and we are alive - embodied or not, because Christ makes us alive, and did not fail in this by any means, we are alive here and now because we are indeed alive here and now drawing nourishment form the Divine-vine, as branches, in union with Life himself.

It is just that with the fall of the fallen, sinful, body into dust, yet another barrier between us and our Lord is extinguished - though it shall be raised again and made holy in the resurrection for what ever purpose or another.

This is what I believe (I do not believe in soul-sleep at all) because soul-sleep seems to me to say that we are not alive, but are infact pretending to be alive...Heaven is about being Alive and in the presence of God, before it is ever about clouds, harps, and halos.  Honestly, that's just a bonus, what ever it might be.

There is more to say about this subject, but I'd have to have some time to lay out a more detailed thesis on it.

shawn:

--- Quote from: Nathan on March 11, 2011, 10:49:43 PM ---I've heard this comment made from time to time in various conversations over the couple of years I've been on the forum and I guess originally it just struck me kinda funny that there are those who actually beleive that when one dies, one doesn't go to heaven . . .I'm a bit baffled by this due to the understanding that there are only two places where we exist, spirit or flesh and heaven is clearly not flesh which leaves it to be in the spirit . . .so when our spirits leave our mortal bodies, how can we "not" pass on into heaven?

There are a couple of passages that seem to me, to clearly affirm this.  One of which is Hebrews 12, which is actually the conclusion of chapter 11's thought.  But it's speaking to us being surrounded by a cloud of witnesses, we can't see them because we're still in this flesh, yet they're there . . .how can they "not" be in heaven and yet be in a heavenly state?  For me, heaven isn't so much a literal place as it is the spiritual realm opposite of "this" realm.  The other passage is where Paul talks about when he's no longer "here" he'll be with the Lord . . .either "here" or "there" which again seems to be clearly stating that we "do" go to heaven once our lives in this realm are complete.

Throw me a bone here if ya would.

--- End quote ---

I am opening up to new ideas of what heaven could be.  We live in flesh which can experience 3 of the 11 known dimensions of the universe.  What if death allows us to experience all 11, in the twinking of the eye?  We think with 3D minds, that is why our perspective is compromised from the start.  Something to ponder.

shawn:
I am opening up to new ideas of what heaven could be.  We live in flesh which can experience 3 (4 if you count time) of the 11 known dimensions of the universe.  What if death allows us to experience all 11, in the twinking of the eye?  We think with 3D minds, that is why our perspective is compromised from the start.  Something to ponder.

micah7:9:
Imagination. It is a fantastic word and it has a forming attitude in the mind of us...man....it takes hold of ones mind.

Joh 3:13  and no one hath gone up to the heaven, except he who out of the heaven came down--the Son of Man who is in the heaven.

the question is just what is it you believe and expect "heaven" to be. Is it a place of physical logistics? Just what is heaven to you? Is it a real place that is physical like Eden?

I repeat this verse of Jesus...Joh 6:63  the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;

This is our living life, can we understand that what heaven is much greater and much stonger than our imagingation? I will say this, that most of what christianity has done to bring forth its religion and offered it to men who are very susceptible to the imagination of their minds and they can be played with(its a shame, but true) in there minds they are given to believe what ever religion offers for they do not care to find out who Jesus is, this life is more important, they do not see nor do they believe or care to understand that as Jesus said...
Luk 17:21  nor shall they say, Lo, here; or lo, there; for lo, the reign of God is within you.' (or among you)
It is quite important in our walk t know that the "reign or kingdom on God is within(among) you, without that knowledge and believing we will not climb the mountain or walk through the valley. HE IS

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