Author Topic: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"  (Read 10501 times)

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Offline Taffy

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #75 on: April 23, 2011, 12:04:56 AM »
Quote
Adam was in the garden, but when he was locked out, he was hidden in Christ, and Christ and the garden hidden in him.

:icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #76 on: April 23, 2011, 12:05:20 AM »
Quote from: Taffy
ya Miss the POINT -- are you now saying HE planned satan who is supposed have had His creation but and fell although a SPIRIT--how on earth can you destroy a SPIRIT---the Mind boggles???-No The Lord never FAILED - you know the other day Iheard some one say Satan committed sucide-- Ive never laughed so much in my days--- of subject--- time to move on

I don't know what you just said.  I said God didn't goof when he created Adam.

But, you seem to be saying he did goof, because you are saying God created man with a carnal mind that would be at enmity to God.  Why would God do that?

Offline Taffy

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #77 on: April 23, 2011, 12:08:09 AM »
Quote
Revelation 13:8
And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

HOW does ONE become written in the BOOK of LIFE? hence those who entered the Lake werent WRITTTEN IN
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline thinktank

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #78 on: April 23, 2011, 12:11:43 AM »
Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #79 on: April 23, 2011, 12:12:27 AM »
Quote from: Taffy
ya Miss the POINT -- are you now saying HE planned satan who is supposed have had His creation but and fell although a SPIRIT--how on earth can you destroy a SPIRIT---the Mind boggles???-No The Lord never FAILED - you know the other day Iheard some one say Satan committed sucide-- Ive never laughed so much in my days--- of subject--- time to move on

I don't know what you just said.  I said God didn't goof when he created Adam.

But, you seem to be saying he did goof, because you are saying God created man with a carnal mind that would be at enmity to God.  Why would God do that?
WRONG premise Molly No i didnt meAN That  Satan usurped that role. from your stand point i continued with satan the so called ENTITY
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #80 on: April 23, 2011, 12:15:02 AM »


Uncovered, the carnal mind is at enmity with God.
In Christ it is not.
He did this so that we can be like Him.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #81 on: April 23, 2011, 12:16:19 AM »
Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
YOU MEAN THROUGH THE POWER of the CROSS right-- ? so to be written in you have to go terough The Cross, those who go through it are the CARNAL mmnded - the Liars, the theives, the Murderers ect--- so the LOF fire being the 2ND death which is HIS death which becomes OURS we pass through the FLAMES---- :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #82 on: April 23, 2011, 12:20:34 AM »
SOME ONE ASKED - WHAT IS THE KINGDOM of GOD like
It seems a Man PLANTED a Mustard seed in a GARDEN and it GREW like a GREAT TREE#

songs of Solomon SPEAK a Lot about aa GARDEN---


 Sgs 4:15   A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon. 
Lebanon is indeed a tree/wood.
But it's also a name Jews gave to the Holy (of Hollies) because It was made of those trees.
So perhaps that verse is better translated using sanctuary?

Also interesting is the root word of Lebanon.

לבן
lâban
BDB Definition:
1) to be white
1a) (Hiphil)
1a1) to make white, become white, purify1a2) to show whiteness, grow white
1b) (Hithpael) to become white, be purified (ethical)
2) (Qal) to make bricks
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1074b, 1074h
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #83 on: April 23, 2011, 12:26:35 AM »


Uncovered, the carnal mind is at enmity with God.
In Christ it is not.
He did this so that we can be like Him.
Was Adam created 'uncovered'?  Or when/how did Adam lose his cover?  What do you mean by 'covered'?

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #84 on: April 23, 2011, 12:34:23 AM »


Not Clothed With Christ.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #85 on: April 23, 2011, 12:35:26 AM »
SOME ONE ASKED - WHAT IS THE KINGDOM of GOD like
It seems a Man PLANTED a Mustard seed in a GARDEN and it GREW like a GREAT TREE#

songs of Solomon SPEAK a Lot about aa GARDEN---


 Sgs 4:15   A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon. 
Lebanon is indeed a tree/wood.
But it's also a name Jews gave to the Holy (of Hollies) because It was made of those trees.
So perhaps that verse is better translated using sanctuary?

Also interesting is the root word of Lebanon.

לבן
lâban
BDB Definition:
1) to be white
1a) (Hiphil)
1a1) to make white, become white, purify1a2) to show whiteness, grow white
1b) (Hithpael) to become white, be purified (ethical)
2) (Qal) to make bricks
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1074b, 1074h
:icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
Psalm 92:12 "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree; he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon."
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #86 on: April 23, 2011, 12:36:16 AM »


Not Clothed With Christ.
So when Adam left the garden, he lost his cover [of Christ] and was clothed with the skins of beasts?

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #87 on: April 23, 2011, 12:45:32 AM »


Adam was hedged in for good reason (body and garden).
God never leaves us.
The plan of God requires a learning process.
Glory to glory as we go.
The cross is the Way of Christ.
While Jesus did it for us by no means instead of us, we too must pick it up and follow.

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #88 on: April 23, 2011, 05:12:12 AM »
SOME ONE ASKED - WHAT IS THE KINGDOM of GOD like
It seems a Man PLANTED a Mustard seed in a GARDEN and it GREW like a GREAT TREE#

songs of Solomon SPEAK a Lot about aa GARDEN---


 Sgs 4:15   A fountain of gardens, a well of living waters, and streams from Lebanon. 
Lebanon is indeed a tree/wood.
But it's also a name Jews gave to the Holy (of Hollies) because It was made of those trees.
So perhaps that verse is better translated using sanctuary?

Also interesting is the root word of Lebanon.

לבן
lāban
BDB Definition:
1) to be white
1a) (Hiphil)
1a1) to make white, become white, purify1a2) to show whiteness, grow white
1b) (Hithpael) to become white, be purified (ethical)
2) (Qal) to make bricks
Part of Speech: verb
A Related Word by BDB/Strong's Number: a primitive root
Same Word by TWOT Number: 1074b, 1074h
:icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower: :icon_flower:
Psalm 92:12 "The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree; he shall grow like a cedar in Lebanon."

palm branches were used for making the booths during the feast of tabernacles

HartleyIrvinDamboiseII

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #89 on: April 24, 2011, 03:30:38 AM »
    Jesus said "fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna".     My thought on this is that its referring to physical death only.   Thats what death is. The destruction of body and soul.  The body goes back to dust. The soul, which is the senses and feelings for the body,  ceases to exist with no living body.  And the spirit of the person goes into the "unseen" back to God who gave it,  without consciousness or awareness.   Sort of like being asleep I would think.  The person will not exist again until they are resurrected by God. At which time, God will bring the person's body up again, restore the spirit, bringing life again which restores the soul. 
    I did a study on the words resurrection, rouse, vivify, soul, and spirit,  from the CLT  and it led to me having this view on death.   My point is,  so many people think that Jesus is referring to unending punishment in the next life here when it says "destroy body and SOUL"  and it doesn't.   The soul is destroyed whenever the body is destroyed.  Again its just physical death is all.


This is so on target for ME,  :thumbsup:

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #90 on: April 24, 2011, 04:21:27 AM »
    Jesus said "fear him who is able to destroy both body and soul in Gehenna".     My thought on this is that its referring to physical death only.   Thats what death is. The destruction of body and soul.  The body goes back to dust. The soul, which is the senses and feelings for the body,  ceases to exist with no living body.  And the spirit of the person goes into the "unseen" back to God who gave it,  without consciousness or awareness.   Sort of like being asleep I would think.  The person will not exist again until they are resurrected by God. At which time, God will bring the person's body up again, restore the spirit, bringing life again which restores the soul. 
    I did a study on the words resurrection, rouse, vivify, soul, and spirit,  from the CLT  and it led to me having this view on death.   My point is,  so many people think that Jesus is referring to unending punishment in the next life here when it says "destroy body and SOUL"  and it doesn't.   The soul is destroyed whenever the body is destroyed.  Again its just physical death is all.


This is so on target for ME,  :thumbsup:

That goes for me too  :thumbsup:
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #91 on: April 24, 2011, 04:33:37 AM »
Matthew 10:28 (King James Version)

 28And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell [geenna].



Let's see, one can kill the body but not able to kill the soul--the other is able to destroy both body and soul--which should I fear?  Neither because it's just death?

Jesus is pointing out to them the power of God vs man.
 
He is also pointing out by the very wording that the soul survives the body.

Offline shawn

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #92 on: April 24, 2011, 04:58:46 AM »
The story that always gives me pause when thinking about the devil or demons as merely the carnal mind of men...is the one about Jesus casting demons into the pigs.  Casting the carnal mind of men into the pigs?  I don't think it fits.

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #93 on: April 24, 2011, 05:17:10 AM »
(KJV)  And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is

able to destroy both soul and body in hell ( gehenna.)

I am not sure of the significance but Jesus was speaking to the disciples, not to the masses. These are words for disciples and let us not forget that Jesus spoke only in parables.
It seems to me, perhaps there is more to Matt.10:28 than what religion and theology has offered up and we as searchers have not been revealed as yet?
I dont know, but it seems to me that there is more to glean. Certainly, when one says "He is also pointing out by the very wording that the soul survives the body."(Molly)

They do not take into consideration or they ignore its worth.... Ezk. 18:4 Lo, all the souls are Mine, As the soul of the father, So also the soul of the son--they are Mine, The soul that is sinning--it does die."

Eze 18:20 The soul that does sin--it does die. A son does not bear of the iniquity of the father, And a father does not bear of the iniquity of the son, The righteousness of the righteous is on him, And the wickedness of the wicked is on him."


 
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 05:38:54 AM by micah7:9 »
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #94 on: April 24, 2011, 06:47:54 AM »
Micah--Eze 18

Jesus comes to him and tells him to tell the Israelites to stop using the proverb that the sons will pay for the iniquities of the father.

1The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying,

 2What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge?

 3As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel.

Then he goes on to say, the soul that sins will die [for his own sins not his father's sins]

 4Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Then he goes on to list a series of caveats to this--

5But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,

...Three more verses of caveats...

9Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD.
--Eze 18


« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 06:54:56 AM by Molly »

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #95 on: April 24, 2011, 07:37:22 AM »
Molly, then this is not acceptable... ?"The soul that is sinning--it does die."  Ezk. 18.20

« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 07:49:52 AM by micah7:9 »
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #96 on: April 24, 2011, 08:19:33 AM »
Molly, then this is not acceptable... ?"The soul that is sinning--it does die."  Ezk. 18.20
Why not?

I would think you would be more interested in the caveats.  How to live rather than how to die.  Have you read them?

Offline micah7:9

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #97 on: April 24, 2011, 08:46:37 AM »
I live through Christ.  I believe as others that it is the simplicity of the Gospel.
Jesus died that all will live. When we die/expire/quit breathing, our body returns to dust and our breath(spirit) returns to the one who gave it.
That as far as I know means the person/soul has ceased to exsist on the earth as a living breathing creature, and the body will begin to return to dust, and the breath is with the Father/ the One who gave it.
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 08:53:53 AM by micah7:9 »
Mic 7:8  Thou dost not rejoice over me, O mine enemy, When I have fallen, I have risen, When I sit in darkness Jehovah is a light to me.

Offline Molly

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #98 on: April 24, 2011, 09:32:28 AM »
Interesting.  I see him as always offering salvation with both hands, even to Cain who is about to kill his brother.


6And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
 7If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted?

--Gen 4

And over and over again to the Israelites.

 31Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 32For I have no pleasure in the death of him that dieth, saith the Lord GOD: wherefore turn yourselves, and live ye.

--Eze 18



Why do men hate the thought of salvation?

But King David got it right.  He knew a good thing when he saw it.

 6Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD for ever.

--Psa 23


Offline Taffy

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Re: Matt 10:28 "destroy body and soul"
« Reply #99 on: April 24, 2011, 12:49:53 PM »
The story that always gives me pause when thinking about the devil or demons as merely the carnal mind of men...is the one about Jesus casting demons into the pigs.  Casting the carnal mind of men into the pigs?  I don't think it fits.
who are these swine and those who now have become the DOGS- just maye the pharisees etc?

ALL THINGS said in parables-Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

remember its THE feet which preach the Gospel- However, These FEET are those who preach the MINISTRYof DEATH-

the carnal mind is death and belongs where it will remain -IN DEATH--- Note the PIGS[ symbolic] were EATING from a MOUNTAIN, and it wasnt Zion-  -  SINIA means THORNY \=CURSE \=SIN- , OUR sins are cast into the SEA :HeartThrob:

The sea beneath is likened to the OC, \or the sea of HUMANITY
HE will turn again, HE will have compassion upon us;HE will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.   :icon_flower:

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away[old covenant - natural understanding]; and there was no more sea.  :2c:
« Last Edit: April 24, 2011, 09:03:07 PM by Taffy »
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.