Discussions Relating to Universal Reconciliation > Bible Threatenings Explained

Judas better if he had not been born?

(1/72) > >>

Universalist Catholic:
Mark 14:21 (King James Version)

21The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man is betrayed! good were it for that man if he had never been born.

Many Churches use this bible verse to claim Judas is doomed to eternity in hell. 

On a side note, some Exorcists did an exorcism on a little Girl, and the Demon was "Identified" as Judas Iscariot.  Is this just more Satan twisting scriptures, and messing around with popular beliefs?

Beloved Servant:
Yeah, Ok, lets dump on Judas, the big bad wolf that took Jesus by surprise. pathetic.

jabcat:
There's a pretty big discussion on Judas here -   http://www.tentmaker.org/forum/index.php?topic=7703.msg89480#msg89480     - may glean something useful from it.

jabcat:

--- Quote from: Universalist Catholic on March 13, 2010, 06:35:24 AM ---On a side note, some Exorcists did an exorcism on a little Girl, and the Demon was "Identified" as Judas Iscariot.  Is this just more Satan twisting scriptures, and messing around with popular beliefs?

--- End quote ---

Also, could be man's imagination getting the better of him again...In all the scriptural accounts, I don't think I ever saw anything that would back up their claim.  Sometimes demons spoke, but I don't remember them ever being a proper name, per se.  Setting aside all the other things I personally believe about him (one of the 12 with thrones, to be or already reconciled/restored etc.) Judas wasn't a demon, anyway.  The Master chose him as one of the 12.

WhiteWings:
TCBMark 14:21 For the Son of Humanity is going away, just as it has been written concerning Him; yet how terrible it is for that human through whome the Son of Humanity is delivered over! It would have been ideal for that human if he hadn't been born.

The red words are clearly about Jesus. Note that those words caps. I think everyone agrees with this part?
But what about the blue/green words? They have no caps so they can never refer to a devine person.
God, Father, Him, Son, HS etc are always written with caps. So the fact that human is written without caps clearly shows it's not a divine human. But I have to add here that using caps is a decision of the translators. Most of the times it's very obvious but this verse seems not that obvious....
The verse 'indentifies' Jesus as "Son of Humanity" and "Him" So why half way during the verse switch "title"
(Son of Humanity is some sort of title imo)
I think it's also clear the blue human (no caps) delivers over the Son of Humanity. Jesus didn't handover Himself.
That leaves the green human (no caps)
First note that in KJV a ! is in the middle of the sentence. In TCB a new sentence starts.

a] No caps -> not divine -> not Jesus
b] The green human is in a second sentence so clearly points to the blue human.
c] "yet how terrible it is for that human" + "It would have been ideal for that human if he hadn't been born." ==> The second part just describes in other words how terrible it is.


Also not that TCB uses 'delivered' instead of 'betrayed'.
Betrayed is clearly something that Jesus didn't approve.
But 'delivered' is a much more difficult word. It can range from something very positive like "deliver a baby" to betrayal. Personally I think Judas acted by orders of Jesus. It may sound weird Jesus was seeking His own death but it was all part of the big plan.


transitive verb 
1 : to set free from restraint : set at liberty : release or liberate especially from control : rescue from actual or feared evil : FREE, SAVE *he that taketh warning shall deliver his soul— Ezek 33:5 (Authorized Version)* —  often used with from or out of *delivered him from captivity*
2 : GIVE, TRANSFER : yield possession or control of : make or hand over : make delivery of : COMMIT, SURRENDER, RESIGN —  often used with up or over, to or into *thou shalt deliver Pharaoh's cup into his hand— Gen 40:13 (Authorized Version)* *the constables have delivered her over— Shakespeare*
3 a : to assist (a parturient female) in giving birth *she was delivered of a fine boy* *the doctor has delivered several thousand women in his long career*;  also   : to aid in the birth of *sometimes it is necessary to deliver a child with forceps*  b : to give birth to *she delivered a pair of healthy twins after a short labor*
4 a : to disburden (as oneself) in words : give forth in words : UTTER, SPEAK, ENUNCIATE *he delivered his speech effectively*  b : to make known to another : COMMUNICATE *they delivered their ultimatum to the enemy*
5 : to send (something aimed or guided) to an intended destination *delivering a short uppercut to the jaw* *the frigate delivered a smashing broadside* *the pitcher delivered a curve to the batter*
6 archaic   : to unload (as a ship) of cargo : EMPTY
7 : to bring (as votes) to the support of a particular candidate or cause *couldn't deliver the votes of his ward*
intransitive verb 
1 : to set one free : DISBURDEN *a deliverance which does not deliver— R.W.Emerson*
2 : UTTER, DISCOURSE *he delivered beautifully but his speech had little real content*;  sometimes   : to express an opinion or judgment
3 : to give birth to offspring *patients that repeatedly deliver prematurely present special problems*
synonyms see FREE, RESCUE
  –deliver a jail : to clear a jail by bringing all the prisoners to trial
  –deliver the goods : to give results that are promised, expected, or desired

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

Go to full version