Author Topic: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching  (Read 7824 times)

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Offline Gary Amirault

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Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« on: September 12, 2007, 08:22:34 PM »
I had Ted Jones go through comments on his site to show the fruit of what Hell-fire teachings have done to people. Perhaps you can add a short testimony yourself to this list:

1. One of the most valuable aids to my own recovery from crippling depression is Universalist thought and God saving all His creatures.

 

2. I had the same torment as you as a teen because I'd heard about all those terrible after life things. The panic and fear was so bad I thought I would physically die. But, like you, God used the brokenness to open my heart. I saw a panoramic view of God's plan of the ages, the resurrection from this present darkness and death and saw the glory of God cover the entire earth like a rainbow.
I told my kids the truth when they were young so they wouldn't have that torment!

 

3. I also had breakdowns and was hospitalized because of the spiritual abuse I suffered at the hands of the cult in which I was raised. But - Praise God! All I went through was part of the bigger plan - and now, slowly I am beginning to see the light! I no longer believe in that eternal hell which tormented my mind for so long...It seemed like eternity while I was there - but now I'm free!

 

4. The idea of eternal torment bothered me terribly, too, for a long time. Worse are those people who look forward to sitting in the grandstands in heaven for eternity watching those in hell burn.
The book most helpful to me was Thomas Talbott's 'The Inescapable Love of God,' with which I'm sure you're familiar.

 

5. My story is very like yours, along with the journey into searching out what God REALLY had to say on the subject. I have never before. How wonderful that you are getting this message out to people. The idea of an angry God capable of mass eternal torture was the subject of childhood nightmares and a long adult search before I could truly believe that God was good, and not just big. Praise Him, that He IS good!

 

6. I too suffered much from the eternal torment teachings of men. I suffered severe depression and anxiety attacks. If God hadn't had his hand on and in my life I would have killed myself a long time ago. But, praise to His name, He led me to a website that explained the lake of fire, hell, judgment, justice, wrath and all the other words that institutional churches use to cram their hate filled God down our throats.
Now, I hear these men and they sound so immature and childish. They contradict themselves whenever they open their mouths. It is truly sad that the only way they can make a living is by threatening people with their twisted and demented idea of a "loving" God. Do they ever truly listen to what they say? Or do they care? Most of them I have talked to don't seem to care at all about their doctrines on eternal torment. Anyway, I can just be grateful that God got me out of that trash before I did myself in.

 

7. How wonderful to hear the Good News... if the new covenant is a better covenant (than the old) then it follows that eternal hell could not be a reality! I too have struggled with severe anxiety over my family going to hell if they don't "say the prayer"... many of them love Jesus but are what you call "new agers" so they don't believe the prayer is necessary. After 15 years of trying to change them, I believe God has shown me that He has saved New Agers and loves them dearly - as much as anyone who claims His name! I have found many websites about universal salvation and it rings true with the God I know as love.

 

8. I can certainly identify with some of the things that you have said. I know what it is like to come close to a nervous breakdown, because of the "Hell" (eternal torment) teaching.
The problem was greatly aggravated by the psychological, emotional, and spiritual abuse that I suffered in the "institutional church" (especially, the fundamentalist movement).
I have been studying UR since February 2004, and I'm grateful to God for the healing that it has brought to me.

 

9. I appreciate your testimonial. I've been on "this journey" for about a year now and everything to me has changed. I see everything differently: God, the scriptures (can't get enough of them now), the "lost", everything!

 

10. Had I discovered the truth of universal salvation sooner, I wouldn't have had to go through nearly two years of torment and anguish. I hope that those who need it most will find out about it too.

 

11. Your road of previous suffering encourages me for those I love who are suffering in any way right now, because they still have problems with a Father Who would forever punish any of us and refuse His Presence and Love to the same. Thank you again for your loving gift of your insights and life.

 

12. The belief in eternal torment may be partially to blame for a severe anxiety disorder I have suffered since age 17. I have seen testimonies of people that have gone nearly or completely insane due to this horrible teaching. Don't let it happen to you.
Explore the wonderful truths of the salvation of all mankind found in properly translated Bibles. Learn what Christ meant when He said on the Tree of Crucifixion, "It is finished." Discover the wonderful promises He left for you, your friends, relatives, and loved ones.
Seeing a God who lets people be tormented forever breeds contempt for our fellow man and turns a person into a hypocrite.
Seeing a God of Love without hypocrisy, breeds forgiveness and sincerity.
I've been there. It's your choice. Check out http://www.tentmaker.org and the materials available without price. It's not too late to love and be loved.

 

13 I know many people who have been through similar experiences as yours because of the false teaching of endless hell although they would not have been as intense as yours seems to have been  
Also I have a friend here who believes the same as you and I am inclined to go along with what you believe.

 

14 Concordant Publishing Concern was a lifesaver for me about 5 years ago when I found one of their pages on the internet. http://www.concordant.org/
I wasn't having a nervous breakdown, but I was getting quite depressed and ready for something different than what I was seeing in Christianity or in my Bible.

 

15. I have seen people, happy productive people who knew a measure of peace, start going to endless-hell churches, join these churches, and within 6 months to a year, gain 50 or 60 pounds, can't sleep, chain smoking, on "nerve pills", families broke up, seeing a psychiatrist, and finally end up in the psych-ward or worst! And is it any wonder why??!

 

16 I was on Paxil for nearly 6 years then Wellbutrin for two years because of the doctrine of eternal suffering in hell, but now I'm off both because I know that God loves all unconditionally and will eventually save everyone, not just a few. It has cleared my head of being judgmental and fearful.

 

17. I have suffered from severe anger and depression because of the teachings of an "eternal" hell and suffering. I also found myself unable to truly love or respect a god that could send anyone to such a place. It has been said also that "we send ourselves to hell" but how can that be, if God is totally sovereign and in total control? Your website is a blessing. Thank you for spreading the True Good News. May you be blessed always.

 

18. I want to thank you for all the great sites. I only recently embraced Christian universalism so I am being completely re-wired. This is a joyful and painful all at the same time experience if you know what I mean?

 

19. I remember when I was a young man, camping out and sitting around the fire, I would look intently into the flames and glowing embers and ask my friends just how is it possible that people can go to a place like that for eternity. No one ever had an answer. My conscience was so stirred by the nightmarish scenes conjured up in my mind that I could not rest until I had a good answer.
Not until a friend, years later, handed me a Concordant Literal New Testament and some of the writings from THE CONCORDANT PUBLISHING CONCERN, were my fears put to rest. My conscience exulted at the wonderful truths! It could not side with the doctrine of demons called "eternal torment."

 


Offline Gary Amirault

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2007, 08:23:20 PM »
20. If I had not learned about universal salvation  theology, there is no doubt in my mind that I would be locked up in a mental hospital for the rest of my life. Until I learned about this theology I did not want to go on living any more. There were times during my life that if I had had a gun in my hand, I would have used it on myself and thrown myself on the mercy of a God Whose mercy I could not recognize inside of endless-hell theology. The suffering was that intense.

 

21. Now that I know the true nature of God, I don't have to worry that being conformed to God is like being conformed to a hateful sadist. I can trust that my Role Model in life is perfect in every way, and He loves without ceasing even the most dreadful, heinous sinners this world has ever known.

 

22. It would take more space than is allowed to tell the whole story of the effects that the teachings of eternal damnation have had on my life and the lives of others that I care for. But, if there is only one tormented soul that finds comfort in knowing they are not alone in this struggle and that I may help another find the truth of God's all-embracing, never-failing, love and character, as well as the strength to face the enemy with the truth, then it would be worth it all!

 

23. Since I truly began to understand how awesome is the absolute sovereignty of God, there has been a more comprehensive work done in my heart. My love for my Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ is greater than it has ever been. Knowing that He will reconcile His entire creation to Himself just makes Him more precious. His love for us is beyond human understanding.

 

24The words my son spoke cut me like a knife and I will never forget them:
"Daddy, I try to be a good boy, but I can't be good like you. The devil is going to take me down to hell with him and I'll never see you and mommy any more."
He believed in his heart that if some people weren't going to make it, it could be him.
I had already started studying about the love of God and the salvation of all mankind just previous to this, but had not yet shared it with my son. That night I shared the true Gospel with him and swore I would never go back to a life of false teaching and fear. That night I allowed my little boy to be a child again, and allowed myself to have the faith of a little child also. NO church will ever take that away from us.

 

25. My confidence that God will win everything and everyone by His love has grown into certainty. Previously I used to feel I ought to "witness", or I'd want to do it so that they would be saved from eternal torture, but now I'm itching to say, look, everything's going to be all right in the end. He's the God of creation, not just a little god for Christians: He's going to revive, He's going to bring back to life, He's going to restore the whole creation, He won't fail to save and reconcile everyone because everyone from all time and from everywhere is whom His salvation was intended for. He is God, and we are not little gods who can spoil His plan by sending ourselves to hell forever.
This revelation of God's nature and purpose has totally changed the way I perceive everything. Even through the darkest times, when I have nothing to offer him, I know He is there, that He continues to love me, and that nothing can change that. And, at last, I have stopped crying out in my sleep.
God was in Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not charging their trespasses to them (2 Corinthians 5:19).
In other words, the action of reconciling the whole world and not charging them with their wrongdoing has been completed. Like a rock pushed over a cliff, the action is completed. The result is inevitable, even though all the effects are not yet evident.

 

26. Before I met the evangelicals I had thought Jesus liked me just as much as I liked him. Now they told me squarely that He hated me, that He had prepared an endless hell of suffering for me and would send me there if I wasn't born again. It was a shock like finding out your beloved husband is planning to murder you!
I guess you have heard this story a thousand times already. I have forgiven those people and don't want to be reminded of them. I lived with them for years in constant fear and oppression, years in which I was constantly afraid of the "invisible forces" around me and afraid of God, who - as evangelical literature has it - loves to send all sorts of dreadful unhappiness to his children and then demand that they praise Him all the same.

 

27. It is impossible to portray the anguish I went through as a child. I was so afraid to go to sleep at night, for years and years of fearing death, fearing to face an eternal torment and judgment.
You see I feared God all right, not out of love or respect, but out of a fear that of an eternal judgment and damnation. And in MY CHILDLIKE MIND, I knew I dared not question the authority of the men of the church. After all, these were supposed to be men of God. These were men who supposedly knew and studied the Scriptures. These were the people to whom I was supposes to respect, honor and obey.

But AH, our God is faithful, He is so wonderfully faithful unto His creation, especially unto those living under fear. So, during this same time of confusion and fears, I also received divine insight, I also knew, that I knew that God loved me. This knowledge and understanding of God's love wasn't so much taught unto me by men, but came from my loving Heavenly Father Himself.
This love, His love, is what kept me going, kept me pressing on, kept me striving, kept me longing for more of God, to get closer and closer unto Him.

I am now convinced of the truth of Ultimate Reconciliation of ALL by the abundance of Scripture and the love that God has for His creation.
Upon learning that Christ did not sacrifice in vain for anyone, I was set free. Free to learn, free to explore, free to question, free to imagine, free to worship in spirit and in truth.

 

28I didn't know that universal salvation was even a possibility until a couple of years ago after my near suicide. It was during the years that I was coming out of the cult and the deep depressions that the experience brought to me and the thoughts of ending my own life, that made me think about my two sons that I would leave behind me if I did take that way out of life. When I was contemplating taking my life I kept thinking about what kind of God I would be leaving my two precious sons in the care of.  What would He do to these precious lives I had brought into world? What kind of God were they expected to love?
I embraced the joy of universal salvation about two and a half years ago, when I found out for the first time in my life that there actually are other people in the world who believe it and have for a very long time. It was the same day that I was going to hang myself in the garage that I found websites that talked about universal salvation.

 

29. I was tortured to the point of suicide, because I could not resolve in myself how to love a God who would torment or annihilate my fellow human beings who got to the end without 'passing the test' by choosing God! I had "God cannot violate our 'free will'" rammed down my throat and it was making me sick and I just wanted to die! To someone "out there" who may be being tormented in their heart and mind just as I was - that is a very important message. And there may be someone out there who needs to hear - for the first time in their life - about the true character of God, the God who doesn't give up on any of us, who wouldn't think of abandoning us to our sick and distorted 'free wills', and who will heal us of every misconception and lie that we have ever been taught and believed.

 

30The doctrine of "eternal torment" has always caused me much trouble, and adding predestination to it caused me a lot grief in trying to reconcile the two.
My understanding of the fullness of who God is simply could no longer abide it, and I began to search out the scriptures with open eyes and a heart wanting to know the truth. The Holy Spirit has taken me on a journey through the scriptures in a most wonderful way concerning this issue, and after extensive prayer, scripture reading, and looking up passages in the original Greek and Hebrew, I have become utterly convinced in the reconciliation of all through Jesus Christ.

 

31. The absurdity of the doctrine of endless hell started to set in. The lack of  "common sense" of it all. Things such as "If endless hell is true, why is Christ considered the victor when he could save only a few?"
"Why would God create people strictly to burn? (Even if you believe in free will He still created them to burn in hell because He knew before He created them that they would reject Him)?"
"He tells me to love my enemy yet He will burn them forever and ever."
If your readers have had these same questions then I urge them to read J. Preston Eby's articles.

 

32I'd read about the incredible love that God supposedly had. At the hour of my greatest pain and so close to checking myself into a psych ward I confronted God and told Him I needed an answer NOW. God took me back to the times of intense peace and love that I had felt previously. He showed me that He loved everyone as much as He loved me. He made it so absolutely clear in my heart and mind through the scriptures and His voice speaking inside me that He was not the monster that He was made out to be. He was not the two-headed out of control love/hate creature that I had been taught all of my life. The more scripture I read and studied the more God brought peace to my mind. He showed me that He will be all in all, that His love knows no end.
I understood that my earlier conversion experience was not so much the moment that I accepted Christ, but rather the joyful time when I first realized it fully. Christ had chosen me, and everyone else, long long ago.
Certainly, it took a long time of relearning. When you have had a concept drilled into your head for many years it takes a long time to go back through the scriptures and realize where you have erred.
But now my heart is so converted to this message of truth that there is nothing you can do to ever change my mind.........not even if I'm the last man standing.

 

33I went to the Lord in my agony of spirit and told Him that if there was such a place where people will eternally be tormented and tortured, than I asked Him to PLEASE TAKE ME INSTEAD OF MY BOYS. (I have 3 sons)
I cried out to Him over a period of about a week concerning this and I was as honest about this as I could ever be. I mean, I really would VERY GLADLY go to this abominable place for eternity than see my precious, deeply loved sons go. I would take their place with NO hesitation!
So, in my agony, I reached out to my trusty computer and typed in "hell." Lo and behold, it brings me to a paper entitled "Can This Be True" and other works by J. Preston Eby.
Well, I couldn't believe my eyes! As I read I had to stop from time to time because of the tears and gut sobs of incredulity intermixed with surprising bursts of laughter.
I kind of felt a little insane. I mean, could this really be true?!
Could it be, Lord, could it be? My world had been rocked violently. It seemed as if the Lord was saying to me, "How do you think you can love your sons more than I do?"

 


Offline Gary Amirault

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2007, 08:24:04 PM »
34.After long years of torturing doubts, God had mercy on me and turned my darkness into light, my despair into joy and my misery into exultation.
He brought me into touch with His revelation, just as He had written it, apart from most of the mistranslations of well-meaning men, who were bound by creeds and tradition.
Not only will He bring all of earth's inhabitants back into the sunlight of His love, but, through the blood of Christ's cross, He will reconcile all to Him, whether those on the earth or those in the heavens (Col.1:20).
The present enmity toward God on the part of terrestrial and celestial creatures will, in due time, be used as a background to display His unfailing love for all fallen creatures.
That is why I no longer have torturing doubts, but revel in exultant faith.

 

35. I also had a brief crisis when [I'm catholic] a priest asked me to give catechism to a few adults before they could commune. I read the literature from the Vatican about God's plan to throw all non-believers, non-Catholic Christians, etc. into eternal hellfire. After that I had a nervous breakdown IN mass!
I politely and quietly left, and since then have become a firm Universalist in my heart. How could God send an individual to ETERNAL hell after only 80 years of earthly life? Justice? I can't fathom it.
And what about God's accountability...didn't He make us? Is He then unable to remedy original sin? Of course He can - that is why Jesus said "If I be lifted up, I will draw all men to me (John 12:32)." Surely, Christ is the good shepherd and will save all men. There are too many ambitious people out there using the name of Jesus to make money and manipulate and control others by fear for their own welfare.

 

36.I also lost much of my sanity for many years because of the eternal torment teaching. I lived in the Christian "mainstream" for most of my adult life. In the last six months I have had my eyes opened to the true Gospel.
I just wanted to introduce myself, and say that you are an encouragement. Blessings and Peace to you.

 

37. I used to walk around in a daze... convinced that almost every person around me was going to hell. I found that utterly horrifying - and that led to my huge breakdown. According to Mike Williams, who spent time in a mental institution, a HUGE percentage of people in those places are Christians who love Jesus with all their heart - but simply cannot reconcile the God of love with the God of eternal Hell Fire.
God bless brother!

 

38.I thank God you have seen this truth. I was as you were also. But for me, at 16, I saw, by God's grace and light, the absurdity and darkness of this idea of an endless hell. When God told me, and I SAW this truth in blazing wonderful glory, I leaped for joy at this most wonderful news. The good news of the Gospel! Peace and GOOD WILL to ALLLLLLL MENNN!!!!!!!!
Over the years, in my walk with him, I see HIM more and more clearly and everything else is fading away. There is only light and life and truth and good things in him. There is no bad news. Only good.

 

39. I was under a heavy burden for many years due to the 'Hell' thing. The release was beyond words when I came into the knowledge of Universal Reconciliation - many tears were shed - tears of joy, this time.

Peace and blessing in your life and ministry.

 

40. God spoke into my heart when I was very young telling me that "hell" was not to torture and was certainly not eternal. What joy there was when my MIND finally caught up and knew what was already known in my heart.

 

41. I agree that the doctrine of endless hell makes people sick with fear and depression. The edification and peace which has come from hearing and believing truth is unspeakable. The truth is what has healed me. I am in constant awe. To God be the glory!

 

42. It is amazing how one's view of God changes when they are set free from the HELL doctrine. How well I remember growing up under it. The evangelists sure knew how to make that one work to increase their "souls saved" account.
I have also experienced the hell that it has created along with the "unpardonable sin" terror teaching.
When I was about 19, I had a strange experience one night as I lay in bed before I went to sleep. Some foul language went through my mind towards the Holy Spirit. Then the next thought was, "You've committed the unpardonable sin." For days I could hardly eat or sleep because I was sure I was headed for hell. It was a terrifying experience. Finally I went and told my father who prayed a simple prayer and I was free. In time I was to learn that salvation was for all without exception, but while my spirit rejoiced, my mind rejected it. It was some years later that I came to more fully understand and accept that it was never God's plan to torture anyone in the mythical fires of hell. Thank God for His glorious plan to bring us all into His glorious image in and through Christ!

 

43. I know what you mean about eternal torment getting you down...I was there. If it should prove to be true...I will need to go and pick out my own room in the mental hospital.......it would take some powerful drugs to numb my "big heart" . Wonder where that "big heart" came from...could it be the image of my creator????

 

44. An article that Gary Amirault wrote on his Tentmaker site was the best news that I have ever read. I usually don't like to read long articles, but this time I couldn't stop. When I finished reading it I knew that the cat was out of the bag. The lid was blown off the big lie. I've never been the same since. I've been set free. I sometimes walk around talking to myself about it and to anybody else who wants to hear about it. I like talking about it. I love this gospel, that through Jesus, everybody will be reconciled to God. I was ashamed of the churches "gospel".

 

45. I had a nervous breakdown too. Actually, two of them - the first one at 21 (not hospitalized) and the second one at 31 (hospitalized) both due to a constant dread that my loved ones were going to spend eternity in hell because they were not "born again."
I am amazed to have found your site Rodger, and amazed to read your story which is exactly like mine.

Would you like to add some yourself?

Offline B_T

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #3 on: September 14, 2007, 12:46:56 AM »
I was raised into an orthodox family and I was taught that when we die good people will go to heaven and bad people will go to hell. It was something I accepted and lived with it.
But when I met the evangelists I heard that there will be a lot of good people in hell. This thing stuck into my mind and I couldn't bear it. I have a lot of good friends and ... wait, do you want to say that when they die they will spend eternity into a literal fire, burning forever and ever? I know how horrible the pain is when you're burned by fire, I couldn't imagine that a good Lord will do this horrible thing to most of the people.
By the way the evangelists continue to preach some things like that: "God is good, God is love, God has a wonderful plan for your life! Oh, yeah, and God is going to send 90% of his creatures into an endless hell, amen!"
I had my "nervous breakdown", but I went even further. I almost expected God will give me horrible visions about the hell reality, or he will just tell me that hell is indeed eternal. I lived in fear, but somehow I accepted that God is not that good. I tried to serve him, but somehow I realized ... I didn't love him... It was so terrible... A lot of people have asked me: "Do you love Jesus?", and I have answered something like: "Yes, of course, he died for my sins"... But I always had the feeling that I was lying.
My life changed when I visited www.what-the-hell-is-hell.com ... Could this be real? Some of my friends rejected the teachings in the web site with the words: "These people don't obey the word of God and the Bible". I stopped going to their meetings and now I feel better. It's for good.
At least me and my girlfriend agree that our children should not be taught about the endless fire... That's very good!

Offline fullarmor2

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2007, 06:04:45 AM »
       Earlier today I was having a prayer/meditation time about a topic. I was thinking about the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance.  These attributes are experienced when a person receives the truth of the Gospel.  And I thought about how the doctrine of ET has such a negative effect on people. The opposite of the fruit of the Spirit! What a hindrance the doctrine of ET is to the ministry of the Holy Spirit!
« Last Edit: October 27, 2007, 06:06:33 AM by fullarmor2 »
For all those who live in the shadow of death,  a glorious light has dawned!  And for all those who stumble in the darkness,   behold,   your light has come!!

Offline AJ

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2007, 03:40:44 AM »
.
The following testimony was one of the first about UR that I read. 
It shook my traditional thinking to the core.
ENJOY !

Fifteen Bombs That Sank My Theological Ship - by V.E. Jacobson.

http://p199.ezboard.com/fjesusthelightoftheworldfrm22.showMessage?topicID=8.topic


Peace, AJ
"Pretty soon, everybody will get what they deserve, which is ..."Salvation"..."Reconciliation"..."Restitution"..."Restoration"..."Immortality"... and "Incorruption" --- now ain't that the coolest thing?

Offline Pierac

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2007, 06:14:57 AM »
I love it AJ!    :2thumbs:

Good post! I enjoyed the read!    So short and so sweet!  :thumbsup:


Paul

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2007, 07:13:35 AM »
Awesome AJ, and that bomb is being carried
by my blog right now. May it hit it's target.

jenna

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2008, 01:48:39 AM »
I wish others who believe in ET could see this. :thumbsup:

jabcat

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2008, 02:20:30 AM »
I wish others who believe in ET could see this. :thumbsup:

Wow, Jenna!  I just came across your post and followed the link.  Fantastic!  I saved it, got'ta use it.  To God be the glory!  He's so much bigger than our puny imaginations.

jenna

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2008, 02:30:16 AM »
I wish others who believe in ET could see this. :thumbsup:

Wow, Jenna!  I just came across your post and followed the link.  Fantastic!  I saved it, got'ta use it.  To God be the glory!  He's so much bigger than our puny imaginations.
I'm glad you saw it, but all credit goes to Gary. :thumbsup:

jabcat

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2008, 06:48:00 AM »
Nah, Gary gets enough credit :wink:       :spank:  Oh, OK, thanks to Gary too.  It's really good..and useful.  God's blessing. 

jenna

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2008, 07:27:33 AM »
Nah, Gary gets enough credit :wink:       :spank:  Oh, OK, thanks to Gary too.  It's really good..and useful.  God's blessing. 
:omg: :spank: :pointlaugh: :laugh:

jabcat

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2008, 07:30:01 AM »
Nah, Gary gets enough credit :wink:       :spank:  Oh, OK, thanks to Gary too.  It's really good..and useful.  God's blessing. 
:omg: :spank: :pointlaugh: :laugh:

Love your reaction, without you saying a word..LOL.

jenna

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2008, 07:30:49 AM »
Nah, Gary gets enough credit :wink:       :spank:  Oh, OK, thanks to Gary too.  It's really good..and useful.  God's blessing. 
:omg: :spank: :pointlaugh: :laugh:

Love your reaction, without you saying a word..LOL.
Yeah, words fail me... :thumbsup:

Offline 97531

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2008, 08:15:15 AM »
I wish others who believe in ET could see this. :thumbsup:

You first need to pry their eyelids open, dewax their ears and give them a  :punish:

Or just pray, seed falls on ground that will one day germinate.


Blessings
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Offline hopeful

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2008, 01:41:22 PM »

Or just pray, seed falls on ground that will one day germinate.


Blessings

Yeah, I think I'll go with that one!   :Sparkletooth:
You're welcome to visit http://toknowhimmore.blogspot.com/

jbs

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2008, 11:09:49 AM »
"The single most important cause for the Western World's great defection from Christ has been the church's teaching of a literal hell. For if we examine the last three centuries of Western history, we can see very clearly how the central atheistic figures of this period were turned away from Christianity basically because of the teaching of hell. And by now we can also see far more clearly the nihilistic and catastrophic results of this atheism. For example, from people like Nietzsche and Wagner we have seen the fruits of Hitler and the entire Nazi period. And what was the teaching of Christianity that turned Protestant Nietzsche and Catholic Wagner against Christianity? A literal hell.

From people like Feuerbach, Marx, and Lenin, we have seen the fruits of people like Stalin and Mao and the misery of Communism throughout the world. And what was the "Christian" teaching which more than any other caused Feuerbach, Marx and Lenin to see Christianity as an "opiate"? The fact that Christians preoccupied with getting to heaven and avoiding hell were willing to turn their backs on the body politic and let it go to here-and-now hell--the only real hell there is. And why did Freud debunk religion in general and Christianity in particular as "illusion"? Again, it's a matter of historical record. Freud had a Christian governess who terrified him with threats of hellfire when he was barely old enough to talk. Therefore Freud couldn't wait to fashion an interpretation of human life that would completely eliminate the need for religion and its terrifying denials of the human body."
Rev Robert Short, U.S. Catholic published by Claretian Publications



jenna

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 07:07:06 AM »
I wish others who believe in ET could see this. :thumbsup:

You first need to pry their eyelids open, dewax their ears and give them a  :punish:

Or just pray, seed falls on ground that will one day germinate.


Blessings
Yeah, I actually tried this. And got banned... :msealed: One day they will know the truth of the matter! :sigh:

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #19 on: July 22, 2008, 10:07:28 AM »
Jesus is often symbolized as the sacrificial Lamb to pay for the sins of the believers.
God the Father is symbolized by a fire that purifies from sin.

Fire (in the Bible) is a positive thing in many cases.
Cooking food
Sterilizing
Heating a house
Fire breaks down complex elements (religion/doctrines) to the most basic elements (childlike faith)
Purifying.
Genesis 15:17  ....  behold a smoking furnace (God), and a burning lamp (God) that passed between those pieces (cut up sacrificial animals).
Deuteronomy 4:24  For the LORD thy God is a consuming fire, even a jealous God.
Ezekiel 1:27  And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, ....  saith the LORD, will be unto her a wall of fire round about ....
Psalm 104:4  Who maketh his angels spirits; his ministers a flaming fire:
Hebrews 1:7  And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
Isaiah 4:4  .... and shall have purged the blood of Jerusalem from the midst thereof by the spirit of judgment, and by the spirit of burning.
Isaiah 4:5  ....  a cloud and smoke by day, and the shining of a flaming fire by night: for upon all the glory shall be a defence.
Malachi 3:3  And he shall sit as a refiner (uses fire) and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi (priests), and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.
Acts 7:30  And when forty years were expired, there appeared to him in the wilderness of mount Sina an angel of the Lord in a flame of fire in a bush.
Judges 6:21  Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight.
1 Chronicles 21:26  And David built there an altar unto the LORD, and offered burnt offerings and peace offerings, and called upon the LORD; and he answered him from heaven by fire upon the altar of burnt offering.
2 Kings 6:17  And Elisha prayed, and said, LORD, I pray thee, open his eyes, that he may see. And the LORD opened the eyes of the young man; and he saw: and, behold, the mountain was full of horses and chariots of fire round about Elisha.
Psalm 18:8  There went up a smoke out of his (God) nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.
Hebrews 12:29  For our God is a consuming fire
Matthew 3:11  .... whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Mark 9:49 - 10:1  or every one shall be salted with fire .... Salt is good ....
1 Corinthians 3:13  .... for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.
1 Corinthians 3:15  If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Romans 12:20  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him (=love); if he thirst, give him drink (=love): for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire (=love) on his head.
1 Peter 4:12  Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
James 3:5  Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!


The lake of fire is God teh Father Himself. :HeartThrob:
« Last Edit: July 22, 2008, 10:14:02 AM by WhiteWings »
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

LCDuplatt

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #20 on: July 22, 2008, 10:29:38 PM »
The fruit of hell-fire teaching is "fear."  Fear never frees a person, but only imprisons people. 

This is how we know what is of truth...of love, and what is false.  Fear is false and so any religion or teaching based upon it cannot stand.  Attack the eternal hell doctrine, and the religious become mad, because you attack the roots of their false propaganda. 

Hell would be better described as the mind of man believing things which are false.  Such beliefs bring about a self-created torment until the person lets go of such ludicrosity.

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #21 on: July 24, 2008, 05:29:42 AM »


Although for me personally I have never in my whole life been afraid of hell.  I was more afraid of all the people ready to cast retribution my way for my behavior.

My mother constantly reminded me that the "devil was inside of me".   My Dad was never really outspoken when it come to God and religion.  My Dad never missed church unless there was an emergency or was just too sick to go. However I think there might have been an influence towards correction that was amplified (being nice here about my discipline as a youngster)due to the thought that my bad behavior was a gateway to the possibility of damnation.

Through life I have witnessed the lack of any greater righteousness between the average church person and the justice expected by people in the world.  In fact,  sometimes the acceptance of hell as just punish for someone simply not believing being their greatest crime does have a more hateful ring to it.

There are many people that do not really claim to be religious or believers that wish to see criminals fry or be tortured, this usually is reserved for the most heinous of crimes.  The typical "worldy" person would not agree that a complete stranger they never met should get the death penalty for stealing from them.

As I witnessed hearing church people almost gleefully tout that the unbeliever will "GET THEIRS" at judgment day.  They try to qualify this wretched mindset by saying all sorts of things, most notably, love the sinner hate the sin.  Of course, then,  this so called LOVE will accept that the "sinner" be fried for all of eternity rather than "JUST THEIR SIN"

Of course, as I walked through religion I saw people trying to make sense of it by watering down the eternal consequences by saying there are different levels of hell, deep sorrow, etc.


Growing up in this caused the most damage, it was not my fear of hell, it was the mindset that I could never be good enough for those I was supposed to have love for.

If I did not believe exactly as my parents then I was treated hatefully, people at church let their heart be known by similar statements and as a youngster I realized that if any one of them saw who I really was, they could not accept me.

Once I left home, I felt the need to go to church, but I could never be me for fear that I would be treated badly.

The last church I was in I put things to the test,  I was me,  I allowed myself to speak and react to things that revealed who I really was.  And low and behold,  what I feared came to pass.   I could not be me without invoking the contempt of people around me.  Most of it was subtle, being hidden behind a false sense of friendship, correction, and many times disguised as a joke.

I won't detail it all.  But I went from "a great faithful man" to someone who was rarely spoken to other than what concerned the duties I had in the church.   

This test was a great step towards defeating my codependance, up until that point I was afraid to be me for fear that people would not like me.  This step was God dragging me along to show me that I really had nothing to fear and that the truth I saw was a freedom that has allowed me to love people more.

I could probably write a few more pages detailing this emotional mechanism, but  the main point is that my emotional problems were indeed fueled by ET and it was not even from me believing in it.

Thats a powerful adversary that should not be taken lightly.


It is universalism that has allowed me to begin learning not to hate people and learning not to disguise my contempt for people I do not like behind false platitudes and religious cliches.







joyful1

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #22 on: July 24, 2008, 03:10:34 PM »
One of the most agonizing moments of my life, was when a fellow nurse and myself attended a dying woman of the Catholic faith who was convinced that she was going to hell for some reason. She literally cried out and grabbed our arms and pleaded for us to keep repeating scriptures to assure her that there might be some hope for her! She had only hours to live and wanted us to give her complete arguments against what she had been taught all her life long in the Catholic church!! It was AWFUL! Her eyes were WILD with fear, and the increased blood pressure and heart rate only hastened her impending death! We prayed with her, did our best to reassure her that if she would but say the "sinner's prayer" she would be okay! (*its all we knew back then!) She repeated it several times, and then would question it again because of her teaching!! She had no relief from the agony right up to the moment of her death. I thank God that she went to sleep finally to rest and that her "awakening" will not be in "ET" as she feared!
Joyce

Offline B_T

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2008, 10:41:15 AM »
I decided to show out some of the comments of several clips in YouTube about hell and rapture:

And the point of this idiotic clip is....???
We know that all self-absorbed, self-serving, blaspheming, credulous zealots of whatever religion are, by definition, stark raving mad & stupid to boot. That's a given.
If these lunatics believe this kind of unadulterated crap is going to make normal, sane & reasonably intelligent people do anything other than sneer derisively, then they're even more deranged than I thought.
More than anything, it's the time frame that gets me.
Everything comes down to this brief moment in time, their lives, a mere microsecond in universal time which extends infinitely in both directions. What mindless, self-deceiving arrogance to believe that 'ultimate happenings' will occur precisely during my lifetime...
It's like their notions of hell & everlasting damnation. I remember as a kid being appalled at the horror of vast numbers of people being incinerated instantly in the midst of a nuclear firestorm. And then wondering how it was that people could burn in hell for eternity & not die!! This made no sense to my agile, 9 year-old brain.


next one:

You have got to be kidding me. All my life I have been told I am going to hell. I grew up with it with my father.
I never understand why some religious people preach hate and fear, rather than peace and understanding.
And in the end, all of the worlds evils were created by man... Just like those who create videos like this!


next one:


just a question, if God really loves all of us, if he is so omnipotent, and if Jesus died to save us, why would he consign people to hell forever for not believing in him? again, more hypocrisy. the idea of hell is a poisonous concept, after all if they can't threaten people with punishment in an afterlife, what purpose is there for the existence of organized religion in its present form. none.


This is the sickest piece of disguisting propaganda I've ever seen. - after a "Letter from hell" clip

Has the Christian religion really fallen so far that the need to resort in mer scare tactics to scare people into "God"? It's disgusting!
and not only that, but the people that defend it honestly think that this will change the minds of the "sinners". I smoke pot and I'm 15! I've had sex and I still Know that Whatever "God" there may be still LOVES ME!!!



LCDuplatt

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Re: Fruit of Hell-fire teaching
« Reply #24 on: September 25, 2008, 10:40:17 PM »


just a question, if God really loves all of us, if he is so omnipotent, and if Jesus died to save us, why would he consign people to hell forever for not believing in him? again, more hypocrisy. the idea of hell is a poisonous concept, after all if they can't threaten people with punishment in an afterlife, what purpose is there for the existence of organized religion in its present form. none.


Better yet, why would a "loving god" create something he foreknew he would destroy?  To get his jollies?