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Offline Nathan

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #125 on: October 28, 2011, 08:00:14 PM »
Taf, as usual, you're right on track.

Just previously to this, Jesus told the disciples to go and sell what they had so they could buy swords for themselves.  The time for his capture was drawing near.  The disciples just happened to have two swords amongst them and his response was . . .out of TWELVE DISCIPLES they came back with TWO SWORDS and his response was . . .that'll do.

Luke 22
36Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one. (hmmm, could it be that the "sword" was to take the place of the garment that covers?)
 37For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
 38And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.


Then, just a breath later, the disciples are trying to connect the dots in the midst of terror and fear.


49When they which were about him saw what would follow, they said unto him, Lord, shall we smite with the sword?
 50And one of them smote the servant of the high priest, and cut off his right ear.
 51And Jesus answered and said, Suffer ye thus far. And he touched his ear, and healed him.


I like that "somebody" is asking while Peter is already swinging.

But we're looking for patterns here . . .so what are the players?  The sword of course is the Word.  The disciples, the followers of the New and Living Way were just instructed to make the obtainment of a sword their top priority.  The ear that was severed.  Not an arm, not someone's head, but specifically and ONLY an ear.  Does not the Spirit constantly cry out through Scripture "he that hath AN EAR let him hear"?  Is not one's faith originate with HEARING?  As opposed to "seeing"?  The sheep are known by recognizing the SOUND of his voice as opposed to SEEING the manifestations of his power.

What exactly is Peter trying to accomplish?  Is he not DEFENDING Jesus?  Does Jesus "need" our aid?  This accomplished two major things, and both are not good.  One, Jesus rebuked him for it.  And two, the result of his attempt to defend Jesus was only to deafen the one he thought he needed to defend Jesus "from".  Who was "that" guy?  Another player.

He wasn't a soldier, he wasn't even armed.  He was the SERVANT (slave of) of the High Priest . . .Again, the disciples represent the followers of the New Covenant, this guy that got his ear cut off was a guy that represented the opposite . . .he represented the supporters of the Old Covenant.  So . . .you have the Old Covenant taking captive the seed of Life and those who have already been resurrected by that seed take it upon themselves to try to defend the seed.  The result?  Keep in mind the Sword is a key player in all of this.  It was Peter's MISUSE of the Sword that brought deafness to the servant of the high priest . . .see where this is all going?

The guys ear is cut off, Jesus rebukes Peter and tells him to PUT AWAY THE SWORD that he had just told them to sell all they owned in order to obtain.  So . . .Jesus, who is, as John states, "the Word", he picks up the ear and HEALS THE SERVANT . . .notice Peter didn't heal anyone here, but Jesus was the one doing the healing.

This brings it all around full circle to THIS particular thread . . .man can not live by BREAD ALONE.  It didn't do Peter any good to rely on the sword alone because he didn't comprehend it's purpose.  It takes a PROCEEDING WORD to illuminate the power of the sword that RIGHTLY DIVIDES flesh from spirit.  What if God told "you" to lay down your Bibles for a while until you matured into a place where it's placement and usage grew "in" you FIRST???

Rather than arguing against the very thought, can you imagine the kind of power that could manifest through you because you were actually willing to do the unthinkable???  Does this not provoke one to think?  What is really most important here . . .that we use the Sword in the effectiveness of which the Father originally intended?  Or that we just swing away at whoever appears to be against us?

Offline thinktank

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #126 on: October 28, 2011, 08:00:39 PM »


Holy of Holies:  The Sons
Inner Court:     The Bride
Outer Court:     The world

WOW i WAS THINKING ABOU THIS YESterday.

I was thinking that perhaps the church should operate at this operation.

So that in the inner court are the holy peculiar people of God, but the outer court is another part of the church where the saved gentiles go.
These are the people that have come to Christ but still are idolaters etc.

This solves the problem of the church of reconciling two challenges.

Because scripture says to put out that unclean person form among you.
But also says to preach into the highways and byways and welcome all people.

Offline shawn

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #127 on: October 28, 2011, 08:49:01 PM »
Recently I was placed into a position that I knew was to be.  I couldn't prove it, I just knew it.  I wasn't specifically told why, but I made assumptions.   This was spiritual revelation vs natural logic working within me.  I get here and find a foreign world, something I didn't expect.  It was actually much different than I expected, but I knew that I was supposed to be here.  I am dealing daily with some people who are angry, belligerent, verbally abusive and very tough to love.  I struggled, because my natural logic couldn't figure out the plan...the why.  I was only told the place.

Again I used natural logic to "figure it out"...and the answers I came up with were not truth and I knew it.  Then like with everything else in spiritual revelation to me...I knew why...I didn't need to reason it out.  At one moment it wasn't there and the next moment it was...without effort and filled with peace.

I was being taught to love.  It was easy for me to love those who loved, respected and were kind to me.  I am able to reciprocate.  But, what about those who are disrespectful, abusive, and difficult?  I realized that I really didn't know what it is to love with the love of Christ.  And it fit together with the later chapters in Matthew that I am reading to my daughters.  Jesus loved those who abused Him, even to the point of giving His life for those who hated Him.  And at that moment of revelation I knew how my love for my neighbor is shallow and conditional.  It's nothing like my Saviors.  I had read about the love of Christ on many occasions.  I had read through Matthew on many occasions.  But,the understanding of my mind never fed my spirit truth.  It wasn't until I was given spiritual revelation that the verses I had read made sense to me.  Until this moment those verses didn't give true understanding.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 08:52:19 PM by shawn »

Offline Taffy

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #128 on: October 28, 2011, 09:01:48 PM »
Quote
I was being taught to love.  It was easy for me to love those who loved, respected and were kind to me.  I am able to reciprocate.  But, what about those who are disrespectful, abusive, and difficult?
the Fulness of HIS love is who we are becoming ~ When first shown Christ actually died for all not just the FEW# it opened my mind to greater depthof HIS MERCY and Compassion, then we come realise why HE SAIDlove your Enimies[ those still in Death] who will persecute you, as we SEE Christ In ALL men not the illusion they dream they are~ He Just lays sleeping until made awake~ ~ when the Lord is first Born within , we  are very much babes with much growing to do~ but in HIS TIME in us and By HIM#~ To LOVE your GOD with all your heart and SOUL and the Your neighbour as yourself~ is the fulfilment of the LAW#

We stcome to SEE ALL OTHERS  as we are in HIM, can you BLAME the Blind for not seeing~ or the lame canNOT yet walk~?or those in Ignorance[ Darkness] who can not SEE~This out our walk upon the Earth~

We walk in the Spirit, as In truth its only the flesh which takes Offence~thats doesnt mean one lies down as can to be Kicked , we still have the ability to move away~
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #129 on: October 28, 2011, 09:04:26 PM »
I really think 95% of those involved in this thread believe the Spirit is vital to us as believers.  Also, that we're sustained by EVERY WORD from the mouth of God, just as Jesus said.

However, I've been researching this a little bit, and although I'm sure there are things I've missed, I'm not sure when Jesus said "must not live by bread alone", was necessarily/solely talking about the written Word [scriptures] as has been assumed and therefor pursued in this thread.  I believe it entails a wider range of things than that.   :2c:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline sheila

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #130 on: October 28, 2011, 09:05:56 PM »
Right! if they persecute you in one city,flee to another.

Offline sheila

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #131 on: October 28, 2011, 09:09:29 PM »
can a book contain everything He says?

Offline Taffy

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #132 on: October 28, 2011, 09:10:34 PM »
Right! if they persecute you in one city,flee to another.
:icon_flower:
but we can always  return , shall we say ~"To test the AIR "~
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #133 on: October 28, 2011, 09:11:21 PM »
can a book contain everything He says?
NO~ theres far more then the Book~ :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #134 on: October 28, 2011, 09:12:31 PM »
Right! if they persecute you in one city,flee to another.

what do you mean, sheila?
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline sheila

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #135 on: October 28, 2011, 09:19:43 PM »
I HAVE MUCH TO WRITE TO YOU, BUT I DO NOT WANT TO USE PAPER AND INK,INSTEAD,I HOPE TO VISIT YOU AND TALK TO YOU FACE TO FACE

    2 JOHN VERSE 12

   TO jAB RE WHAT DO YOU MEAN?  WHEN IT BECOMES SO BAD THAT PEOPLE CAN'T HEAR THE WORDS OF THE SPIRIT..AND YOU FACE PERSECUTION..

   YOU CAN TAKE YOUR LEAVE,GO ELSEWHERE OR RETURN AND TRY AGAIN,AS tAFFY SAID.  oFTEN TIMES,WITH GROWTH, THEY CAN THEN ACCEPT

Offline sheila

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #136 on: October 28, 2011, 09:29:34 PM »
jOHN 21;25   jESUS DID MANY OTHER THINGS AS WELL,iF EVERY ONE OF THEM WERE WRITTEN DOWN, i SUPPOSE THAT EVEN THE WHOLE WORLD

  WOULD BE UNABLE TO CONTAIN THEM.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #137 on: October 28, 2011, 09:33:35 PM »
Hey Sheila

The Book of Thomas[ Twin] the HIDDEN Gospel BEING  Christ[ In US] being the 5th Tree  sprang to mind~  :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #138 on: October 28, 2011, 09:34:26 PM »
I really think 95% of those involved in this thread believe the Spirit is vital to us as believers.  Also, that we're sustained by EVERY WORD from the mouth of God, just as Jesus said.

However, I've been researching this a little bit, and although I'm sure there are things I've missed, I'm not sure when Jesus said "must not live by bread alone", was necessarily/solely talking about the written Word [scriptures] as has been assumed and therefor pursued in this thread.  I believe it entails a wider range of things than that.   :2c:

Just a reminder Jabcat . . . my intent and point was not trying to beat people over the head with the idealism that the written word is lacking.  My point was to try to point out the fact that "my perspective" as an "individual" greatly affects the overall effect of what Scripture says, does and how it applies.  So that if my perspectives emphasize a single piece rather than the whole picture, then my effectiveness in application will also reflect that.  This thing with the sword of Peter is merely another example of that.  Anyone "can" weld a sword, but how many of us understand it's actual purpose in our individual lives?

"If" Peter wasn't to use his sword . . .why did Jesus tell them to sell all they owned in order to purchase one?  I think that's a very important piece to anyone picking up a Bible, whether they intend to build a defense with it, use it as proof for what they believe, or merely as a threshold that leads into unimaginable truths that only the Spirit can reveal inwardly.  If Peter was to sell all he had to obtain a sword, why would he be told to put it away?

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #139 on: October 28, 2011, 09:37:16 PM »
I HAVE MUCH TO WRITE TO YOU, BUT I DO NOT WANT TO USE PAPER AND INK,INSTEAD,I HOPE TO VISIT YOU AND TALK TO YOU FACE TO FACE

    2 JOHN VERSE 12

   TO jAB RE WHAT DO YOU MEAN?  WHEN IT BECOMES SO BAD THAT PEOPLE CAN'T HEAR THE WORDS OF THE SPIRIT..AND YOU FACE PERSECUTION..

   YOU CAN TAKE YOUR LEAVE,GO ELSEWHERE OR RETURN AND TRY AGAIN,AS tAFFY SAID.  oFTEN TIMES,WITH GROWTH, THEY CAN THEN ACCEPT

I see, thanks.  I wondered if you were referring to my "broadening the scope" of what bread may mean.  Thanks for clarifying.   :bigGrin:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline sheila

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #140 on: October 28, 2011, 09:49:08 PM »
 hI nATHAN, i THINK IT REPRESENTED THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT. WE WAR NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD,BUT PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS...

   OF WHICH THE POWER OF THE HOUR OF DARKNESS WAS COME UPON jESUS.   tHAT SWORD WAS USED AS A TEACHING TOOL TO THEM ALL...

  AND TO US.rISE pETER,KILL AND EAT.

     

Offline Nathan

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #141 on: October 28, 2011, 09:55:07 PM »
hI nATHAN, i THINK IT REPRESENTED THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT. WE WAR NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD,BUT PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS...

   OF WHICH THE POWER OF THE HOUR OF DARKNESS WAS COME UPON jESUS.   tHAT SWORD WAS USED AS A TEACHING TOOL TO THEM ALL...

  AND TO US.rISE pETER,KILL AND EAT.

     

Hmm . . . Okay, I can see that because Peter raised his sword against men of flesh, that would represent the flesh and blood you speak of.  So . .in that light of things, if the battle isn't outwardly in the flesh . . .where is it?  Does the sword fight it's own battles?  Do we personally play a role in the "when" and "where" and "how" the sword is to be used?

Offline shawn

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #142 on: October 28, 2011, 10:02:38 PM »
Quote
I was being taught to love.  It was easy for me to love those who loved, respected and were kind to me.  I am able to reciprocate.  But, what about those who are disrespectful, abusive, and difficult?
the Fulness of HIS love is who we are becoming ~ When first shown Christ actually died for all not just the FEW# it opened my mind to greater depthof HIS MERCY and Compassion, then we come realise why HE SAIDlove your Enimies[ those still in Death] who will persecute you, as we SEE Christ In ALL men not the illusion they dream they are~ He Just lays sleeping until made awake~ ~ when the Lord is first Born within , we  are very much babes with much growing to do~ but in HIS TIME in us and By HIM#~ To LOVE your GOD with all your heart and SOUL and the Your neighbour as yourself~ is the fulfilment of the LAW#

We stcome to SEE ALL OTHERS  as we are in HIM, can you BLAME the Blind for not seeing~ or the lame canNOT yet walk~?or those in Ignorance[ Darkness] who can not SEE~This out our walk upon the Earth~

We walk in the Spirit, as In truth its only the flesh which takes Offence~thats doesnt mean one lies down as can to be Kicked , we still have the ability to move away~

Wonderful.  I was blessed by that.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #143 on: October 28, 2011, 10:08:56 PM »
Does the sword fight it's own battles?  Do we personally play a role in the "when" and "where" and "how" the sword is to be used?
WE are HIS sword Nate~ the sword bringing LIFE~but if the Ground is Hard ~ we Move on~ :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #144 on: October 28, 2011, 10:11:38 PM »
I really think 95% of those involved in this thread believe the Spirit is vital to us as believers.  Also, that we're sustained by EVERY WORD from the mouth of God, just as Jesus said.

However, I've been researching this a little bit, and although I'm sure there are things I've missed, I'm not sure when Jesus said "must not live by bread alone", was necessarily/solely talking about the written Word [scriptures] as has been assumed and therefor pursued in this thread.  I believe it entails a wider range of things than that.   :2c:

Just a reminder Jabcat . . . my intent and point was not trying to beat people over the head with the idealism that the written word is lacking.  My point was to try to point out the fact that "my perspective" as an "individual" greatly affects the overall effect of what Scripture says, does and how it applies.  So that if my perspectives emphasize a single piece rather than the whole picture, then my effectiveness in application will also reflect that.  This thing with the sword of Peter is merely another example of that.  Anyone "can" weld a sword, but how many of us understand it's actual purpose in our individual lives?


 :thumbsup:  anything that God considers bread [which might be a good exploration], He addresses by saying not just that, but by every word...it all works together.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline Molly

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #145 on: October 28, 2011, 10:12:19 PM »
hI nATHAN, i THINK IT REPRESENTED THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT. WE WAR NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD,BUT PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS...

   OF WHICH THE POWER OF THE HOUR OF DARKNESS WAS COME UPON jESUS.   tHAT SWORD WAS USED AS A TEACHING TOOL TO THEM ALL...

  AND TO US.rISE pETER,KILL AND EAT.

     

Hmm . . . Okay, I can see that because Peter raised his sword against men of flesh, that would represent the flesh and blood you speak of.  So . .in that light of things, if the battle isn't outwardly in the flesh . . .where is it?  Does the sword fight it's own battles?  Do we personally play a role in the "when" and "where" and "how" the sword is to be used?

The battle is in the heavenlies against the rulers of this dark age and wickedness in high places.

Therefore, pray without ceasing, and put on the full armor of God, so that in the day of evil, having done all, you can stand.

Offline Taffy

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #146 on: October 28, 2011, 10:16:01 PM »
hI nATHAN, i THINK IT REPRESENTED THE SWORD OF THE SPIRIT. WE WAR NOT AGAINST FLESH AND BLOOD,BUT PRINCIPALITIES AND POWERS...

   OF WHICH THE POWER OF THE HOUR OF DARKNESS WAS COME UPON jESUS.   tHAT SWORD WAS USED AS A TEACHING TOOL TO THEM ALL...

  AND TO US.rISE pETER,KILL AND EAT.

     

Hmm . . . Okay, I can see that because Peter raised his sword against men of flesh, that would represent the flesh and blood you speak of.  So . .in that light of things, if the battle isn't outwardly in the flesh . . .where is it?  Does the sword fight it's own battles?  Do we personally play a role in the "when" and "where" and "how" the sword is to be used?

The battle is in the heavenlies against the rulers of this dark age and wickedness in high places.

Therefore, pray without ceasing, and put on the full armor of God, so that in the day of evil, having done all, you can stand.
the battle is Indeed in the heavenlies, but equally so it is upon this Earth~WE are HIS SWORD of TRUTH,what HE IS is who WE ARE, for we are ONE in Spirit and soul~
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Molly

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #147 on: October 28, 2011, 10:19:59 PM »
 11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

 14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

 15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

 16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

 18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 19And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,


--Eph 6

Offline sheila

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #148 on: October 28, 2011, 10:28:01 PM »
  ALL WE CAN DO IS SPEAK THE TRUTH IF HE GIVES IT TO US. ALL WE CAN DO IS LISTEN IF WE HAVE EARS TO HEAR..THAT HE GIVES US...

   WE CAN DO NOTHING OF OURSELVES....IT IS ALL HIS SPIRIT. HOW CAN YOU FOLLOW HIM IF YOUR BLIND,HEAR HIS VOICE IF DEAF.

  SEEDSOF RIGHTEOUSNESS ARE SOWN IN PEACE[FOR THIS REASON DAVID DIDN'T BUILD THE lORD'S HOUSE]

     THE SWORD OF THE sPIRIT IS THE PEARL IN THE FEILD...EVEN THE kINGDOM OF HEAVEN.   

    WE ARE NOT TO THINK BEFORE HAND WHAT WE ARE TO SAY, IT WILL BE GIVEN IN THAT HOUR,FOR IT IS THE SPIRIT SPEAKING
 

Offline Taffy

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #149 on: October 28, 2011, 10:28:49 PM »
11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

 13Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

 14Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;

 15And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;

 16Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.

 17And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

 18Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

 19And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,


--Eph 6
the Helmet is slavation~ its HIS VERY MIND in US~ Recall the Helmet of Goliath being BRASS[ judgment] the Lords Judgment fell upon HIM= the carnal mind and slew him~ but its a Picture of DEATH unto Life~we no longer have a Carnal mind~its been slain~ we NOW HAVE HIS, we are HIS SWORD bringing OTHERS to the WORD of TRUTH~
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.