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Offline Nathan

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Bread alone
« on: October 13, 2011, 04:00:14 PM »
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

What is the "bread alone"?

Offline redhotmagma

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2011, 04:05:13 PM »
stones are the laws written, satan told him to turn them into bread, bread alone is the written word

Offline Nathan

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2011, 10:05:52 PM »
Absolutely agree . . .so . . .then what you'd have to then also say is that the written word isn't ENOUGH .. .yes?  That basing a belief according to what is written would be ill-advised . . .yes?

Without the "proceeding" word a "flowing/moving/breathing" word.  One that isn't already written in a book, but instead, one that is written upon the hearts . . .which goes back to "UPON THIS ROCK".  It's the INWARD unveiling in us that Christ builds his church on . . .his church consists of direct revelational truth from God to man.  "That" word is what leads us to ascended places from which we enter into different perspectives of kingdom principles . . .from which . . .when we do read what "is" written, we see it to be saying completely different things than reasoning and logic has taught.

The proceeding word is a Word that moves, that flows "from" us.  The kingdom of God does not come by observation, it's "in you". 

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2011, 10:23:32 PM »

"For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life...."

Yahweh wrote on the tablets of stone; Jesus in the earth.

Ezekiel 36:26;
I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit in you; I will remove from you your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh

2 Corinthians 3:3;
You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

Ephesians 2:15;
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2011, 10:48:35 PM »
Absolutely agree . . .so . . .then what you'd have to then also say is that the written word isn't ENOUGH .. .yes?  That basing a belief according to what is written would be ill-advised . . .yes?

Without the "proceeding" word a "flowing/moving/breathing" word.  One that isn't already written in a book, but instead, one that is written upon the hearts . . .which goes back to "UPON THIS ROCK".  It's the INWARD unveiling in us that Christ builds his church on . . .his church consists of direct revelational truth from God to man.  "That" word is what leads us to ascended places from which we enter into different perspectives of kingdom principles . . .from which . . .when we do read what "is" written, we see it to be saying completely different things than reasoning and logic has taught.

The proceeding word is a Word that moves, that flows "from" us.  The kingdom of God does not come by observation, it's "in you".


I'm pretty much with you, although I pause just a little with your statement "basing a belief according to what is written would be ill-advised.."  I think I may understand what you truly believe, but I'd personally say it is important to base our beliefs on what is written, ALONG WITH the Spirit's enlightenment and revelation - what He writes on our heart - remembering the written and revealed work together. 

Amen, not JUST the Bread, but also "every word proceeding".  IMO, if a person doesn't have the written, they can still know God, because He can reveal Himself any way He pleases.  But to those of us who have been given the written (one  of the ways He reveals Himself) I believe it behooves us even more to handle with care.  By His grace may I do so.  Because to whom much is given, much is required. 

Offline Nathan

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2011, 12:05:35 AM »
You're right, this is where we differ and I challenge.

It's not that I don't embrace Scripture.  I do.  But I don't embrace "my' understanding of what I "think" it's saying.  I don't embrace what I think the original text and meanings state . . .there are too many variables.  The carnality in my own mind can take things completely out of context and deceive me into embracing something that shackles me rather than liberates me in my relationship with the Father.  I take them all under consideration, but without the original author "revealing" the meaning, it's all just a bunch of religious jargon.  It's clear, and I've stated this before but most continue to brush it off, but even Scripture makes it clear that those who "thought" they knew it best back when Jesus literally walked amongst them, they didn't have a clue what Jesus was telling them then, anymore than the professors of our day can comprehend spiritual truth now. 

There are many instances where the principles and patterns make it clear that we're not to rely on the tangible . . . I find it interesting that on one hand, you agree with what I was implying, while at the same time, you disagree with what I was implying.

Do we think that without a Bible in our hand that we can't hear what God is saying?  That we won't know what God is doing or wanting us to do?  Sometimes I wonder if many out there haven't done with the Bible what many others have done with everything else God has given them in that they've taken what was created to bring freedom into their lives and they've made a bondage out of it.  I believe Scripture should "add to" my relationship with God, not be the foundation of my relationship.  I believe the foundation should be God directly revealing Christ to my spirit . . .the Word written upon my heart . . ."that" should take precedence over the word translated many times over, only to be then "interpreted" by the filtering system in my own head.

I didn't write the verse that was originally written in Deuteronomy, nor did I quote it, to emphasize it's truth as Jesus was doing.  I merely created a conversation to not just cause a pause about what "I'm" saying, but to cause a pause about what many have already assumed as fact.  And you've taken the bait.   :Sparkletooth:  The "fact" is, Jesus quoted this passage that was originally talking about manna . . .which like the bread, we understand it's not about literal manna "or" bread, but it's representing a "type".  Bread "alone" is not gonna cut it.  When I first saw this, the first thing that came to mind was Goliath, believe it or not . . .but all the symbolism that oozes from that story . . .the stones that David hand-picked out of the stream . . .they represent Christ who is the rock and cornerstone within every one of us.  But it wasn't enough that the stone entered the forehead (the mind) of Goliath, just as it's not enough to have bread alone . . .but his head had to be removed entirely . . .Eating bread of the kingdom without God revealing it's depth's only results in religious banters.

Definitions and word discussions isn't what transforms death to life.  They are accompaniment pieces of the orchestra, but they're not the primary instruments that carry the melodic truths.  Yet many will rely on them so much that they want to rewrite the entire song of the Spirit based on a word definition, rather than see it for what it is and embrace the spiritual patterns that are unlocked through the harmony of each instrument under the primary instruments carrying the melody.   What is written only comes to life when the Spirit breathes upon it and REVEALS to us the depths of it's truths.  Flesh and blood can not teach us spiritual truth, yet most will go to great lengths defending flesh and blood tactics.

Man can not LIVE on bread alone . . . but by every "proceeding word" of God.  I want to be totally free from every limitation.  I want to be like the wind, you can't tell from where it comes or to where it goes .. . I believe that is what God desires for all who follow after him.  He is outside the confines of natural understanding . . .and he's created a place there for us to flourish in as well, but I can't do that if I continue to emphasize what natural eyes can already see.  I'm no longer satisfied with the bread alone. I want the proceeding word of God to flow through me.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2011, 03:03:15 AM »
Nathan:
You're right, this is where we differ and I challenge.


Where are you saying we differ, and what are you challenging?  I challenge that we need to be very careful with statements we make as far as how we handle the written Word - that we need to be as sure as we can be that we don't make ambiguous or half-statements that leave things appearing that we don't embrace scripture.  I also challenge that Jesus didn't say we don't live by bread.  He said we don't live by bread ALONE, which is what I believe I clearly posted.

Nathan:

  But I don't embrace "my' understanding of what I "think" it's saying.  I don't embrace what I think the original text and meanings state . . .there are too many variables.  The carnality in my own mind can take things completely out of context and deceive me into embracing something that shackles me rather than liberates me in my relationship with the Father.  I take them all under consideration, but without the original author "revealing" the meaning, it's all just a bunch of religious jargon.  It's clear, and I've stated this before but most continue to brush it off, but even Scripture makes it clear that those who "thought" they knew it best back when Jesus literally walked amongst them, they didn't have a clue what Jesus was telling them then, anymore than the professors of our day can comprehend spiritual truth now. 

There are many instances where the principles and patterns make it clear that we're not to rely on the tangible . . . I find it interesting that on one hand, you agree with what I was implying, while at the same time, you disagree with what I was implying.


While we're talking about our mind, thanks for bringing that up.  I also believe we can think we're hearing from God "inside", then base our beliefs on that - apart from scriptural support - and be off base too.  There are thousands of examples.  Search the net, go to different churches, see what people are "hearing from God".  Some of it is, some of it's not.  How do I know?  One way is if they speak things against what's written.

Not sure what you find interesting.  I thought I was pretty clear that I agreed with much of what you're saying, i.e., that's the scripture needs Spirit-revelation.  Don't know how many times I've said that - over and over.  I just think we need to not make statements and teach things that appear that we're cavalierly dismissing the scriptures.  That why I said I believe I know how you truly believe, but suggested a little different angle of view.  You're not the only one that can challenge, and I hope you don't believe you've gone beyond being able to learn from others, and are only here to teach and challenge.



Nathan:

Do we think that without a Bible in our hand that we can't hear what God is saying?  That we won't know what God is doing or wanting us to do?  Sometimes I wonder if many out there haven't done with the Bible what many others have done with everything else God has given them in that they've taken what was created to bring freedom into their lives and they've made a bondage out of it.  I believe Scripture should "add to" my relationship with God, not be the foundation of my relationship.  I believe the foundation should be God directly revealing Christ to my spirit . . .the Word written upon my heart . . ."that" should take precedence over the word translated many times over, only to be then "interpreted" by the filtering system in my own head.


Did you read my post?  I said people can know God without what's written.  Don't just preach.  Listen.


Nathan:
I didn't write the verse that was originally written in Deuteronomy, nor did I quote it, to emphasize it's truth as Jesus was doing.  I merely created a conversation to not just cause a pause about what "I'm" saying, but to cause a pause about what many have already assumed as fact.  And you've taken the bait.   :Sparkletooth:  The "fact" is, Jesus quoted this passage that was originally talking about manna . . .which like the bread, we understand it's not about literal manna "or" bread, but it's representing a "type".  Bread "alone" is not gonna cut it.


Call it biting if you want.  But again, Jesus didn't say we don't live on bread.  He said we don't live on bread alone - meaning the bread is important - even vital.  Tell the Israelites they didn't need the manna.


Nathan:

Definitions and word discussions isn't what transforms death to life.  They are accompaniment pieces of the orchestra, but they're not the primary instruments that carry the melodic truths.  Yet many will rely on them so much that they want to rewrite the entire song of the Spirit based on a word definition, rather than see it for what it is and embrace the spiritual patterns that are unlocked through the harmony of each instrument under the primary instruments carrying the melody.   What is written only comes to life when the Spirit breathes upon it and REVEALS to us the depths of it's truths.  Flesh and blood can not teach us spiritual truth, yet most will go to great lengths defending flesh and blood tactics.

Man can not LIVE on bread alone . . . but by every "proceeding word" of God.  I want to be totally free from every limitation.  I want to be like the wind, you can't tell from where it comes or to where it goes .. . I believe that is what God desires for all who follow after him.  He is outside the confines of natural understanding . . .and he's created a place there for us to flourish in as well, but I can't do that if I continue to emphasize what natural eyes can already see.  I'm no longer satisfied with the bread alone. I want the proceeding word of God to flow through me.


I'm not sure what you're addressing.  I've emphasized over and over the need for the Spirit and Spirit-revelation.  And I don't believe you or either one will ever be without limitation, until we've taken on immortality.  Without limitations, we're likely to mix things in with what really is Spirit-inspired, that really aren't of the Spirit at all, but of our own imagination.

Offline Molly

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2011, 05:34:07 AM »
26Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.

27Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

28Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

29Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

30They said therefore unto him, What sign shewest thou then, that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?

31Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written, He gave them bread from heaven to eat.

32Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven.

33For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.

34Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.

35And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.

36But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.



47Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.

48I am that bread of life.

49Your fathers did eat manna in the wilderness, and are dead.

50This is the bread which cometh down from heaven, that a man may eat thereof, and not die.

51I am the living bread which came down from heaven: if any man eat of this bread, he shall live for ever: and the bread that I will give is my flesh, which I will give for the life of the world.

52The Jews therefore strove among themselves, saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat?

53Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him.

57As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

58This is that bread which came down from heaven: not as your fathers did eat manna, and are dead: he that eateth of this bread shall live for ever.

--John 6

Offline Molly

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2011, 05:40:05 AM »
Quote from: BelovedServant
Ephesians 2:15;
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations.
His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace

Does this mean he is uniting Grace and Law in one new man?

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2011, 05:41:18 AM »
Sorry Nathan, but those are some of my honest understandings brother.   

Molly, that's interesting.  With Jesus saying not to live on bread alone, but then saying HE's the manna/bread, that's a bit of a head scratcher.  He must be talking about two different "breads"?  Because obviously He's the Alpha and Omega, in Him we live, breathe, etc....
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 05:48:56 AM by jabcat »

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2011, 05:49:58 AM »

Well, yes Molly, He fulfilled the law in His flesh, His own flesh, which no other mere mortal could do.
He came to do the Will of God the Father, who never desired sacrifice.

Matthew 9:13
But go and learn what this means: 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice.' For I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners."

But why? One would ask!
John 3:16

Pride and vanity of natural Adam sill thinks that the great plan of God is about the creation when the truth is just the opposite it's about Him!

Offline Molly

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2011, 05:51:35 AM »
Sorry Nathan, but those are some of my honest understandings brother.   

Molly, that's interesting.  With Jesus saying not to live on bread alone, but then saying HE's the manna/bread, that's a bit of a head scratcher.  He must be talking about two different "breads"?  Because obviously He's the Alpha and Omega, in Him we live, breathe, etc....
He's talking about two different breads, yes.

And, manna is a third thing.  It did not give the Israelites everlasting life.  But a shadow of Christ?

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2011, 06:00:47 AM »


1 Corinthians 10;
1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was CHRIST.

Offline Molly

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2011, 06:13:33 AM »


1 Corinthians 10;
1 For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers, that our forefathers were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea.
2 They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea.
3 They all ate the same spiritual food
4 and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was CHRISit T.

True.  But the spiritual food and drink must be the rock?
Because the manna they are given does not impart eternal life.  Jesus seems to distance himself from it.
Jesus was with them, but still at a distance, as most do not make it into the promised land.

It must have something to do with this verse:
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing.

[Heb 9:8]

The first tabernacle=Adam's body=Moses tabernacle in the wilderness

Offline Molly

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2011, 06:27:05 AM »
The Bread of Life and the Hidden Manna
By Gary Amirault

http://www.tentmaker.org/BreakingBread/2.html

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2011, 06:29:36 AM »

An omer of this manna was laid up in a golden pot, (Heb. 9:4), and kept before the testimony, or the ark, when it was made!


Then check this out!:

Joshua 5:12;
The manna ceased on the day after they had eaten some of the produce of the land,
so that the sons of Israel no longer had manna,
but they ate some of the yield of the land of Canaan during that year.


Offline Molly

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2011, 07:05:28 AM »
Yes, it was actually a miracle food.  They were only to take as much as they needed for the day.  A double portion only the day before the Sabbath.

The word manna means, What is it?  lol

But, I think, only a shadow of Christ, the true heavenly bread.

ps I think Nathan is talking about the hidden manna.

pps The golden pot signifies the sons of God containing the hidden manna of Christ.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2011, 07:09:11 AM by Molly »

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2011, 08:06:30 AM »
As you said, multiple types of bread.

Offline Nathan

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2011, 12:08:07 AM »
Nathan:
You're right, this is where we differ and I challenge.


Where are you saying we differ, and what are you challenging?  I challenge that we need to be very careful with statements we make as far as how we handle the written Word - that we need to be as sure as we can be that we don't make ambiguous or half-statements that leave things appearing that we don't embrace scripture.  I also challenge that Jesus didn't say we don't live by bread.  He said we don't live by bread ALONE, which is what I believe I clearly posted.


The difference is, it's assumed that we're to base our belief according to what we think Scripture is saying and "i'm' saying that we're not.  I'm saying that we're to base our belief according to the Word IN US.  Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes from the Word . . .Faith, wihch is where my belief originates, comes by "hearing"   . . .he that hath an ear let him hear . . . that's not talking about the visible and tangible, that's talking about invisible . . .inward . . .the still small voice in every one of us.  FROM THERE we read the Scriptures.  My challenge is to not become defensive against me, but rather taste and see for  yourselves.  Scripture already leaves all kinds of hints at the importance of NOT relying on our thinking but instead "receive" from God directly the revelation, the unveiling of the nature of who Jesus is.

It appears that every time I have this conversation, it's assumed I'm saying the Scripture is not important.  I've never once said it's not, nor have I said it's unnecessary to read.  My whole intent is to give A DIFFERENT perspective on how to go about applying it.  That's why I keep repeated "Everything is spiritual".  I know it's controversial.  I know you think much of my stuff is illogical and others even accuse me of "claiming" it's spiritual so I can put my own personal spin on everything and make it look like I'm the only one right.  But that's another thing I repeat often . . .it's not about being "right" as much as it is about being "one".  And in order to BE one with each other, there needs to also be an understanding that the oneness is not a MENTAL thing but a SPIRITUAL one.  Meaning that we don't have to agree with everything the other is saying in order to be at one with each other.  Another thing we've talked about before is every body REQUIRES opposites in order for there to be unity.  We can't all be right hands . . .some of us have to be left hands to balance out the right hands . . .but we're still hands.

While we're talking about our mind, thanks for bringing that up.  I also believe we can think we're hearing from God "inside", then base our beliefs on that - apart from scriptural support - and be off base too.  There are thousands of examples.  Search the net, go to different churches, see what people are "hearing from God".  Some of it is, some of it's not.  How do I know?  One way is if they speak things against what's written.
Not sure what you find interesting.  I thought I was pretty clear that I agreed with much of what you're saying, i.e., that's the scripture needs Spirit-revelation.  Don't know how many times I've said that - over and over.  I just think we need to not make statements and teach things that appear that we're cavalierly dismissing the scriptures.  That why I said I believe I know how you truly believe, but suggested a little different angle of view.  You're not the only one that can challenge, and I hope you don't believe you've gone beyond being able to learn from others, and are only here to teach and challenge.


Yeah, the thing about hearing the noise of one's mind and thinking it's the sound of truth . .to your example . . .going to all the different churches around and seeing they are totally convinced "they" have heard from God even though their message  TO US is more destructve than it is inspiring.  And that's the whole point . . .you can TELL the differnce between what is spiritual and what is natural by the end results.  It's not because they believe differently that reveals whether it's of God or man, it's the fact that the result has restriction rather than liberation.  God is infinite and it's always his desire to bring that infinity in to us . . .so when the message becomes one of caution and limitation, for me, that's a signpost that someone went off track.  But it's not because I don't understand them or that their opinion is confusing to me. 

The suggestion that I would think that I'm the only one that can challenge and assume I'm here to only teach others . . .again, I"ve never said, nor purposefully indicated any such thing.  I'm not the only one here that pushes the spiritual emphasis on things, there "are" others here who can also embrace these things.  I sense that my comments about the order of how I embrace Scripture has hit a nerve . .again . .

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2011, 12:49:50 AM »
Nathan, I guess I could say more, but I don't think you would hear them. 

Blessings, James.

Offline WhiteWings

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2011, 01:21:30 AM »
Then check this out!:

Joshua 5:12;
The manna ceased on the day after they had eaten some of the produce of the land,
so that the sons of Israel no longer had manna,
but they ate some of the yield of the land of Canaan during that year.
I think it means they entered Canaan on First Fruits.
1 Timothy 2:3-4  ...God our Savior;  Who will have all men to be saved...
John 12:47  And if any man hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but to save the world.
Romans 4:5 But to the one who does not work, but believes in the one who declares the ungodly righteous ...

Offline onlytruth

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2011, 03:47:58 AM »
My  :2c:
I feel pulled in the same way....waiting for my spirit to lead,sensing the spirit to move and me to pick-up on it.
the word is good but is an outward manifestation of what has already occured.I'm waiting for it to be dropped in my spirit for something new between me and the Father.
My search led me to different teachers ,who led me to different things in the scriptures that allowed me to grow in maturity.Jesus did the same thing but eventually only did what the Father showed him
We all have to go through a process,some of us might go quicker but no matter where we are, we can be a blessing and in God's plan
blessings :icon_king: 

Offline jabcat

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2011, 03:56:34 AM »
that's the thing onlytruth, i've never said we shouldn't be Spirit-led or be spiritual, etc.  just to be clear. we definitely should be.    :thumbsup:  blessings.

Offline CHB

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #23 on: October 16, 2011, 08:12:36 PM »
Matthew 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

What is the "bread alone"?

Maybe I am thinking in the physical flesh again but my understanding of this verse is.

Our bodies should not live by food alone, it also needs God's word to sustain it. I kind of think of it as growing up. Our bodies need food/bread to help us grow up to be healthy human beings and the word of God helps us to grow up to be spiritually minded. When I say spiritually minded I mean to, think on things that are good, (Phil. 4:8) and have the fruits of the Spirit.

CHB

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Bread alone
« Reply #24 on: October 16, 2011, 09:35:02 PM »



If it were His intention

and He withdrew His Spirit and Breath,

all mankind would perish together

and man would return to the dust.