Author Topic: Why does the letter of the law kill  (Read 4459 times)

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Offline Universalist Catholic

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Why does the letter of the law kill
« on: February 18, 2010, 04:21:42 PM »
and can the letter apply to stuff outside the bible, like the dogmas of other religious organizations?

Offline jabcat

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #1 on: February 18, 2010, 06:37:57 PM »
I think they think they're getting their beliefs from inside the Bible.  Such as the Pharisees - they in fact knew the scriptures very well.  They just didn't a) know what they meant (what the Spirit in/of the scriptures were) and b) their view and true practice of those scriptures was veiled and then distorted by the hardness of their hearts.

I think any of us can potentially do that.  Without great detail, there's a person I know that lives a lifestyle I personally detest and that I can find evidence in the scriptures against their lifestyle.  I can take those scriptures in isolation, and then feed the situation with my own disgust and anger, and end up hating the guy.  But that would be neglecting to allow the Spirit of God to soften my heart towards him and bring myself to repentance over my own sinful attitudes - neglecting the other scriptures that talk about love and forgivenss, my own faults and sins, tne spirit of grace and mercy in those same scriptures.  It may be a poor example, but it's what came to mind as I was typing.  Anyway, as much as I will take a stand and dig my heels in regarding the absolute trustworthiness of the scriptures and the respect they deserve, I also realize some of the most hard-hearted people know much of the scriptures, but their (our) own blindness gets in the way of truly practicing the Spirit and truth within them sometimes.  My  :2c:.
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Paul Hazelwood

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #2 on: February 18, 2010, 07:10:03 PM »


I do not know that the letter of the law inherantly kills,  Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.  I believe it is how we use the law against others that kills.

Offline jabcat

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #3 on: February 18, 2010, 07:23:32 PM »
 :thumbsup:
Neither should there be vulgar speech, foolish talk, or coarse jesting--all of which are out of character--but rather thanksgiving.  Eph. 5:4  **  Saved 1John 3.2, Eph. 2:8, John 1:12 - Being saved 2Cor. 4:16 2Peter 3:18 - Will be saved 1Peter 1:5 Romans 8:23

Offline sheila

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #4 on: February 18, 2010, 07:48:58 PM »
 the commandment was unto life..in order that the utter

sinfullness of sin be manifest..it slayed me by that which is

good

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2010, 07:54:42 AM »
The letter kills when it is not enlivened by the Spirit.....the letter(void of Spirit) kills, the Spirit (enlivening the Word as the sword of the Spirit) gives life. Any system of letters (dogma, doctrine, ordinance, gnostic system, systematic theology) that acts as a veil between men and Christ- kills. The Spirit is the Lord, and "we all with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image by the Spirit, who is the Lord". Whoever is in gnosis(knowledge base) or legalism is in death. Only the Spirit gives life.
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Offline rosered

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #6 on: February 27, 2010, 09:52:04 PM »
   
  good stuff guys  :thumbsup:   Jab / James
  that was a good example  :icon_flower:
 
  made me think of How Jesus said "forgive thme Father for they know not what they do "
as He Hung on the Cross ...........

  and we have this  also to compare   John 8 all of it
 
 
Jhn 8:37 I know that you  are Abraham's seed; but you seek to kill me, because my word has no place in you
 
 Luk 24:7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again. 

 
 1Jo 1:1 That which was from the beginning,
 
  which we have heard,

 which we have seen with our eyes,
 
  which we have looked upon,

 and our hands have handled, of the Word of life
 
 (For the life was manifested, and we have seen [it], and bear witness, and shew unto you that eternal life, which was with the Father, and was manifested unto us;)
 
  they could not KILL  the Word of Life !!!   but Glorified the Father  though it !!!
 
 Jhn 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was. 
 
  wow!!  the letter kills but the Word is Life   :HeartThrob:

Offline Pierac

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2010, 02:28:54 AM »
Rom 13:8  Owe no one anything, except to love each other, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.

Rom 13:10  Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Yep,

Gal 5:14  For the whole law is fulfilled in one word"You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

Now James...

Jas 2:8  If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, "You shall love your neighbor as yourself," you are doing well.

And John...


1Jn 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8  Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.


Paul

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2010, 04:12:01 AM »


1Jn 4:7  Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves has been born of God and knows God. 8  Anyone who does not love does not know God, because God is love.


Paul

I just love that verse...... people can go...."but...but....but..." all day long but there it is, just as pretty as you please. "...whoever loves has been born of God and knows God" The Samaritan loved the wounded man by the road, showing that he was born of God. The Pharisee and the Levite passed the man by, demonstrating that in all their learning, they "never knew Him."
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline Molly

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2010, 05:07:51 AM »
Quote
The Pharisee and the Levite passed the man by, demonstrating that in all their learning, they "never knew Him."

Then WHO is HE?

Acts 22:7
And I fell unto the ground, and heard a voice saying unto me, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?



24Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
--Gen 2

Offline Pierac

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2010, 05:29:41 AM »
Let me share a few comments on this one.


Luk 10:25  And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 26  And He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" 27  And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 28  And He said to him, "You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE." 29  But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" 30  Jesus replied and said, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. 31  "And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32  "Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33  "But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, 34  and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35  "On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.' 36  "Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?" 37  And he said, "The one who showed mercy toward him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do the same."


The message of this parable reaches the audience on different levels.  The parable of the Good Samaritan teaches a clear message on the level of a child.  But does it challenge the minds of the learned?  Because Christian scholars often misunderstand the Jewish background to the teaching of Jesus, they frequently miss the deeper level of meaning in the story of the Good Samaritan. 

In the Lukan context of the parable of the Good Samaritan, the Torah scholar approach Jesus and ask him a question, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"  Jesus answered him by asking another question, "What is written in the Torah?  How do you read?"  Because of the way Jesus presented his questions, the Torah scholar could arrive at the proper approach, "love the Lord your God" and "your neighbor as yourself."

The dialectic discussion between Jesus and the scholar was not characterized by hostility or confrontation, as many New Testament scholars have assumed.  The question is a genuine inquiry.  Jewish learning involved asking questions and answering questions with more questions.  In regard to the conclusion of the parable of the Good Samaritan.  When Jesus asked him who was the neighbor to the man in need, the Torah scholar answered correctly, "The one who showed mercy."  He concluded that even one's enemy, could be a neighbor.  The astonishing conclusion of the parable demonstrates that the Torah scholar was sincere, because he arrived at the proper answer after hearing the parable.

The colorful cast members of the mini-drama provided insight into the plot of the story.  A man is stripped and left half dead.  With out identifying clothes, one cannot recognize to which cultural community he belongs.  Is he a Pharisee?  Is he a priest?  Is he Roman?  Jesus does not tell listeners.  He is simply a dying man in urgent need.

The inner structure of the parable is seen in the other three characters.  The Lukan context of the parable would indicate that the Torah scholar asking Jesus questions was one who accepted the oral law, perhaps a Pharisee.  In contrast, the first two characters who passed by the injured man do not embrace the oral tradition.  The priest and the Levite were probably Sadducees, who would have not accepted the validity of the Oral Torah.  They would, however, follow the written law with literal exactitude.  Here one begins to appreciate the artistry in the parable.

 The three key actors, the Priest, the Levite, and the Samaritan, have both similarities and distinctions within the diverse religious cultures of the first century C.E. The original audience of the parable would have been keenly aware of these distinctions.

The religious men make no effort to help him because of their understanding of biblical law.  The leading characters of the story play significant roles in the structure of the parable's plot. The Priest and the Levite continue the actions of the robbers; the robbers abandoned him to die and they passed by in a like manner.  The Samaritan, however, reverses the actions of the thieves and makes every effort to restore the man whose life was at risk.

The tremendous importance given to the oral interpretation of the Torah in Pharisaic teachings can hardly be overemphasize.  The Torah was delivered to Moses with its oral commentary and practical application in every aspect of human experience.  The Sadducees rejected the teachings of the oral law.  They were literalists in the sense that they followed only the written law.

The difference between the scholar asking Jesus a question such as "Who is my neighbor?"  And the leading characters in the parable is decisive.  The oral interpretation of the written law, which were so very important to Jesus and the Torah scholar, have little meaning for the Priest and the Levite.

The people listening to the parable are keenly aware that the Sadducees in the priestly service are extremely concerned about their ritual purity.  In the eyes of a Sadducean literalist, the prohibition in the written Torah (Lev 21:1) "And the Lord said to Moses, 'speak to the Priests, the sons of Aaron, and say to them that none of them shall defile himself for the dead among his people'" superseded all humanitarian concerns.

The met mitzvah is a law concerning a dead person who has no one to bury him. The oral law require is even a high priest to pollute himself with ritual and purity in order to bury a met mitzvah. The written law states clearly, "The priest… shall not go into any dead body, nor defile himself, even for his father or for his mother" (Lev 21:11).  The priest in the Levite acted properly according to the literal meaning of the Torah.  In the Oral Law, however, as preserved in the later codification of the Mishnah, the early tradition presents a different approach for the met mitzvah.

In fact, even in pagan thought it was an acceptable ethic of civilized conduct to provide burial for an abandon corpse.  However, the more important issue was saving a life.
In the parable, Jesus criticizes a Priest and a Levite for not being willing to risk coming into contact with a corpse.  The point seems to be that they did not know whether or not the man by the side of the road was dead, when they were unwilling to risk incurring corpse-impurity simply on the chance that they might have been able to help.

The oral law teaches proper ethical conduct whether the man was dead or still alive. The priest in the Levite could ignore the teachings of the oral law in good conscience because of the literal approach to the Pentateuch.

In the Jewish oral tradition, the principal of saving life at all cost gained unsurpassed and uncompromised priority.  All written laws of the Torah must be violated to preserve life.  Clearly a dying man's life is more important than ritual purity.  The priest in the Levite treated the dying man as if he were already dead.  They did not except the oral tradition concerning the preservation of life at all cost, and they feared that their ritual impurity was at risk.

Clearly, when Jesus referred to the Samaritan in a positive manner, it was an ingenious shock element in the parable. Even a Samaritan cared more for human life than the Priest or the Levite.  The guardians of the Temple neglected basic human values.

The meaning of "neighbor" must include not only those who are near but even an enemy.  Jesus wanted the Torah scholar to understand the point.  He chose three characters to play leading roles in the parable.  He asked the scholar, "Which of these three, do you think, proved neighbor to the man who fail among the robbers?"

He did not respond by saying "the Samaritan" instead he answered with profound wisdom"The one who the showed mercy."  The Torah scholar did not categorize the Samaritan according to his cultural and religious community.  He saw him for what he did.  He realized from the story of Jesus that every human being, whether friend or enemy, is of inestimable value and must be esteemed according to the biblical commandment "you shall love your neighbor as yourself."  Jesus made his point clear enough for the Torah scholar; one should interpret the verse in the broadest sense: "you shall love even your enemy as yourself."


Paul


Offline Redlettervoice

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2010, 07:44:31 AM »


I do not know that the letter of the law inherantly kills,  Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.  I believe it is how we use the law against others that kills.

yes

Offline Molly

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2010, 11:38:58 AM »
Quote
"Which of these three, do you think, proved neighbor to the man who fail among the robbers?"

He did not respond by saying "the Samaritan" instead he answered with profound wisdom,  "The one who the showed mercy."

So is Christ something that we express with regard to others?  Or something that we are?


4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

--1 Cor 13




Matthew 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2010, 11:55:39 AM by Molly »

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2010, 04:15:35 AM »


I do not know that the letter of the law inherantly kills,  Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it.  I believe it is how we use the law against others that kills.

yes

The "letter" kills, the Spirit gives life. The law held in the letter kills. The law held in the Spirit gives life. The law written in stone was a shadow of the law written on tablets of human hearts.

Zec 7:12  "They made their hearts like flint so that they could not hear the law and the words which the LORD of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets; therefore great wrath came from the LORD of hosts.

Jer 31:33-34  "But this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days," declares the LORD, "I will put My law within them and on their heart I will write it; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. "They will not teach again, each man his neighbor and each man his brother, saying, 'Know the LORD,' for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them," declares the LORD, "for I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more."

Rom 9:30-33  What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, attained righteousness, even the righteousness which is by faith;  but Israel, pursuing a law of righteousness, did not arrive at that law.   Why? Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as though it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone,  just as it is written, "BEHOLD, I LAY IN ZION A STONE OF STUMBLING AND A ROCK OF OFFENSE, AND HE WHO BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED."

Therefore, Jesus is now the end of the law for righteousness unto all those who believe, since partaking of the divine nature through "Christ in you the hope of Glory" is the new law, the true law that the shadow pointed towards. It is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus.

2Co 3:2-4  You are our letter, written in our hearts, known and read by all men; being manifested that you are a letter of Christ, cared for by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts. Such confidence we have through Christ toward God.

The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline Beloved Servant

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2010, 04:29:21 AM »

Amen, eaglesway,
God made the law impossible for flesh to fulfill.
Through Him, with Him and in Him we partake of the fullness of the Godhead bodily.

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2010, 05:09:25 AM »
Yea, thats what I was trying to say :o)
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Theo Book

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #16 on: March 14, 2010, 11:40:54 PM »
Let me share a few comments on this one.


Luk 10:25  And a lawyer stood up and put Him to the test, saying, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?" 26  And He said to him, "What is written in the Law? How does it read to you?" 27  And he answered, "YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR STRENGTH, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND; AND YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF." 28  And He said to him, "You have answered correctly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE." 29  But wishing to justify himself, he said to Jesus, "And who is my neighbor?" 30  Jesus replied and said, "A man was going down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among robbers, and they stripped him and beat him, and went away leaving him half dead. 31  "And by chance a priest was going down on that road, and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32  "Likewise a Levite also, when he came to the place and saw him, passed by on the other side. 33  "But a Samaritan, who was on a journey, came upon him; and when he saw him, he felt compassion, 34  and came to him and bandaged up his wounds, pouring oil and wine on them; and he put him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn and took care of him. 35  "On the next day he took out two denarii and gave them to the innkeeper and said, 'Take care of him; and whatever more you spend, when I return I will repay you.' 36  "Which of these three do you think proved to be a neighbor to the man who fell into the robbers' hands?" 37  And he said, "The one who showed mercy toward him." Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do the same."


The message of this parable reaches the audience on different levels.  The parable of the Good Samaritan teaches a clear message on the level of a child.  But does it challenge the minds of the learned?  Because Christian scholars often misunderstand the Jewish background to the teaching of Jesus, they frequently miss the deeper level of meaning in the story of the Good Samaritan. 

In the Lukan context of the parable of the Good Samaritan, the Torah scholar approach Jesus and ask him a question, "Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?"  Jesus answered him by asking another question, "What is written in the Torah?  How do you read?"  Because of the way Jesus presented his questions, the Torah scholar could arrive at the proper approach, "love the Lord your God" and "your neighbor as yourself."

The dialectic discussion between Jesus and the scholar was not characterized by hostility or confrontation, as many New Testament scholars have assumed.  The question is a genuine inquiry.  Jewish learning involved asking questions and answering questions with more questions.  In regard to the conclusion of the parable of the Good Samaritan.  When Jesus asked him who was the neighbor to the man in need, the Torah scholar answered correctly, "The one who showed mercy."  He concluded that even one's enemy, could be a neighbor.  The astonishing conclusion of the parable demonstrates that the Torah scholar was sincere, because he arrived at the proper answer after hearing the parable.

The colorful cast members of the mini-drama provided insight into the plot of the story.  A man is stripped and left half dead.  With out identifying clothes, one cannot recognize to which cultural community he belongs.  Is he a Pharisee?  Is he a priest?  Is he Roman?  Jesus does not tell listeners.  He is simply a dying man in urgent need.

The inner structure of the parable is seen in the other three characters.  The Lukan context of the parable would indicate that the Torah scholar asking Jesus questions was one who accepted the oral law, perhaps a Pharisee.  In contrast, the first two characters who passed by the injured man do not embrace the oral tradition.  The priest and the Levite were probably Sadducees, who would have not accepted the validity of the Oral Torah.  They would, however, follow the written law with literal exactitude.  Here one begins to appreciate the artistry in the parable.

 The three key actors, the Priest, the Levite, and the Samaritan, have both similarities and distinctions within the diverse religious cultures of the first century C.E. The original audience of the parable would have been keenly aware of these distinctions.

The religious men make no effort to help him because of their understanding of biblical law.  The leading characters of the story play significant roles in the structure of the parable's plot. The Priest and the Levite continue the actions of the robbers; the robbers abandoned him to die and they passed by in a like manner.  The Samaritan, however, reverses the actions of the thieves and makes every effort to restore the man whose life was at risk.

The tremendous importance given to the oral interpretation of the Torah in Pharisaic teachings can hardly be overemphasize.  The Torah was delivered to Moses with its oral commentary and practical application in every aspect of human experience.  The Sadducees rejected the teachings of the oral law.  They were literalists in the sense that they followed only the written law.

The difference between the scholar asking Jesus a question such as "Who is my neighbor?"  And the leading characters in the parable is decisive.  The oral interpretation of the written law, which were so very important to Jesus and the Torah scholar, have little meaning for the Priest and the Levite.

The people listening to the parable are keenly aware that the Sadducees in the priestly service are extremely concerned about their ritual purity.  In the eyes of a Sadducean literalist, the prohibition in the written Torah (Lev 21:1) "And the Lord said to Moses, 'speak to the Priests, the sons of Aaron, and say to them that none of them shall defile himself for the dead among his people'" superseded all humanitarian concerns.

The met mitzvah is a law concerning a dead person who has no one to bury him. The oral law require is even a high priest to pollute himself with ritual and purity in order to bury a met mitzvah. The written law states clearly, "The priest… shall not go into any dead body, nor defile himself, even for his father or for his mother" (Lev 21:11).  The priest in the Levite acted properly according to the literal meaning of the Torah.  In the Oral Law, however, as preserved in the later codification of the Mishnah, the early tradition presents a different approach for the met mitzvah.

In fact, even in pagan thought it was an acceptable ethic of civilized conduct to provide burial for an abandon corpse.  However, the more important issue was saving a life.
In the parable, Jesus criticizes a Priest and a Levite for not being willing to risk coming into contact with a corpse.  The point seems to be that they did not know whether or not the man by the side of the road was dead, when they were unwilling to risk incurring corpse-impurity simply on the chance that they might have been able to help.

The oral law teaches proper ethical conduct whether the man was dead or still alive. The priest in the Levite could ignore the teachings of the oral law in good conscience because of the literal approach to the Pentateuch.

In the Jewish oral tradition, the principal of saving life at all cost gained unsurpassed and uncompromised priority.  All written laws of the Torah must be violated to preserve life.  Clearly a dying man's life is more important than ritual purity.  The priest in the Levite treated the dying man as if he were already dead.  They did not except the oral tradition concerning the preservation of life at all cost, and they feared that their ritual impurity was at risk.

Clearly, when Jesus referred to the Samaritan in a positive manner, it was an ingenious shock element in the parable. Even a Samaritan cared more for human life than the Priest or the Levite.  The guardians of the Temple neglected basic human values.

The meaning of "neighbor" must include not only those who are near but even an enemy.  Jesus wanted the Torah scholar to understand the point.  He chose three characters to play leading roles in the parable.  He asked the scholar, "Which of these three, do you think, proved neighbor to the man who fail among the robbers?"

He did not respond by saying "the Samaritan" instead he answered with profound wisdom"The one who the showed mercy."  The Torah scholar did not categorize the Samaritan according to his cultural and religious community.  He saw him for what he did.  He realized from the story of Jesus that every human being, whether friend or enemy, is of inestimable value and must be esteemed according to the biblical commandment "you shall love your neighbor as yourself."  Jesus made his point clear enough for the Torah scholar; one should interpret the verse in the broadest sense: "you shall love even your enemy as yourself."


Paul






Absolutely the best explanation I have seen yet on that parable. Thank you!




Offline Universalist Catholic

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #17 on: June 13, 2010, 07:34:52 AM »
Now that I think about it, it makes more sense.  Fundamentalists seem to love to throw "Proof texts" at everyone to prove that their dogma is supreme.  They remove a passage from scripture out of context and tell us that it proves the belief in "Everlasting Punishment".  They take the proof texts of "Unquenchable fire", "More profitable to have your foot cut off than go to Gehenna", "A great Chasm no one can cross over", "Tormented day and night 'forever and ever'(age of ages)" "Worm does not die", as all proof that Hell is Eternal.  Problem is that the whole doctrine is extremely flawed when looking at the whole bible in its entirety. 
1.  Throughout the old and new testament, God has never cast total destruction on anyone, and every judgment that occurred has ended, but intended to teach righteousness. 
2.  The whole doctrine of hell completely taints Gods nature.  Considering the perfect love, it is very unloving to punish someone vindictively for no sole purpose but revenge.  And it is pure cruelty to force someone to endure unspeakable pains for all eternity.  Not loving at all. 
3.  The whole doctrine of hell demands contradiction of all the passages speaking of universal restoration, and the very nature of Christs redemptive work. 

Before I had gotten involved with strict Fundamentalist Catholicism, and Protestantism, I had understood all those things like Universal Reconciliation, a God of pure love, and one we could worship out of love instead of fear.  However I could not quote a single scripture, let alone know where the bible verses were. 

Offline thinktank

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #18 on: June 18, 2010, 06:40:13 PM »
and can the letter apply to stuff outside the bible, like the dogmas of other religious organizations?


I think the letter is a bunch of rules that nobody can keep. e.g the 10 commandments and the law of Moses, nobody was perfect enough to keep those laws and so we have no hope, but Christ came to fullfill the law and was tempted in each way as we are, but he trumphed. So we are no longer under the law(letter) but under grace(Living word, Jesus who has power to forgive sins)

A bit like the goverment today that has so many rules that potentially everyone is a criminal, but sometimes it is the graceful police officer that allows us to break the speed limit in order to get the pregnant lady to hospital in time. The law would never allow this, but the good police officer would.


Offline sheila

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #19 on: June 14, 2011, 11:47:31 PM »
Because the Law is written on tablets of stone       and Proverbs 30;19,,,,,,,,,,,

     THE WAY OF A SERPENT ON A ROCK


    you see a serpent is a cold blooded animal.....and when the sun[SON] shines upon the rock and warms it.....then the serpent also warms his blood and becomes more

 lively[active]""""'for this reason Paul said.....once I was alive apart from law...and when thecommandment came came[Romans 7;9]SIN SPRANG TO LIFE AND

  I DIED.   I found that the very commandment that was INTENDED TO BRING LIFE,ACTUALLY BROUGHT DEATH.......for [sin/serpent] seizing the opportunity

  afforded by the commandment,DECEIVED ME.........AND THROUGH THE COMMANDMENT PUT ME TO DEATH


   So then the Law is HOLY and the commandment is Holy,righteous and good


    Did that which is good then,become death to me?  By no means!...but in order that sin[serpent] might be recognized as sin[serpent]...IT produced death

  in me,through what was good,SO....THAT....THROUGH THE COMMANDMENT.........SIN/SERPENT MIGHT BECOME UTTERLY SINFUL.


   WE KNOW THAT THE LAW IS SPIRITUAL; BUT I AM UNSPIRITUAL.....SOLD AS A SLAVE TO SIN[serpent]


         I do not understand what I do.........for what I want to do,I do NOT do...but, what I HATE, I DO....and if I do what I do Not want to do

   I agree.....THAT THE LAW IS GOOD...and IT IS NO LONGER MYSELF WHO DO IT[sin]   BUT IT IS SIN/serpent,LIVING IN ME......


   v24  what a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body of death?  Thanks be to God,through Jesus Christ Our Lord

Offline eaglesway

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #20 on: June 15, 2011, 06:36:09 AM »
you will bruise his(serpent) head, he(serpent) will bruise your heal
The Logos is complete, but it is not completely understood. hellisamyth.com

Offline sheila

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #21 on: June 15, 2011, 05:48:21 PM »
 :thumbsup:

Offline sheila

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #22 on: June 15, 2011, 06:12:55 PM »
Yes,let none of us say it is a stone bruise of the rock of stumbling...call it what it is....the bite of the serpent.

   the righteous stumble many times...and Christ is a rock of offense to the serpent in us....serpent will go to the left or go to the right around that rock


   I will no longer hide your teachers from you,you will hear a voice from behind you say, neither turn to the right or turn to the left,this is the way

  you go.

 

Offline rosered

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Re: Why does the letter of the law kill
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2012, 11:14:45 PM »

 

   the letter of the law  that kills
  this is death for all

but
7 Now if the ministry of death, chiseled in letters on stones,

 came with glory, so that the Israelites were not able to look directly at Moses' face because of the glory from his face—a fading glory—



8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?



 9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory,



the ministry of righteousness overflows with even more glory.



10 In fact, what had been glorious is not glorious now by comparison because of the glory that surpasses it.




11 For if what was fading away was glorious, what endures will be even more glorious.



 
 12 Therefore, having such a hope, we use great boldness.
 

13 We are not like Moses, who used to put a veil over his face so that the Israelites could not stare at the the end of what was fading away,




 14 but their minds were closed. For to this day, at the reading of the old covenant,

 the same veil remains; it is not lifted, because it is set aside only in Christ.



15 Even to this day, whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their hearts,



16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord[/b], the veil is removed.


17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.


18 We all, with unveiled faces, are looking as in a mirror at the glory of the Lord

and are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory;

 this is from the Lord who is the Spirit.