willieH: Hi X...
Please KNOW that I address YOUR WORDS, and mean no personal offense to YOU... (that is, if you take offense at "my words"
ok! first of all, I want to thank tentmaker for bringing all of this subject up. As of course most the folks in here, I was at one point or another in the traditional way of thinking about salvation and hell. Now I do not fully embrace the theology of universalism and neither do i fully embrace the traditional teachings of the church.
So what do you "fully embrace" there X?
At this very moment I am extremely confused because tentmaker proclaims that there is no such thing as Hell. And has much evidence to proof the case, in which i said: "ohh ok, great, what's next?" But then they post an audio conversation of the Stetson vs Strange Debate. Which I believe tentmaker supports Mr. Stetson, which is fine, but Mr. Stetson explains and shows strong evidence of evangelism in Hell, and that Hell is a real place.
Don't know "Stetson"... nor do I personally believe that TENTMAKER aligns with this thinking... on the contrary... Gary Armiault (site owner) has written many articles quite to the contrary!
So my question is, what is going on?
Well, let's see if we can help there X...
My experiences so far have taken me to see demon possesed persons, both me and my family have encountered many occasions where we were faced with visual demonic presence, and no we were not on drugs or drunk or had bad pizza the night before, what i have experienced, i have experienced and there is not one person in this world that can convince me otherwise.
First, might I state that it is NOT my agenda to "convince you
" of anything!
That you "believe" you saw SPIRIT beings (which by the way, ARE INVISIBLE)... is the beginning of the deception you submitted to... Many in Christianity submit to it... and thereby get their wish... to "see" with PHYSICAL EYES... SPIRITUAL BEINGS...
I been there done that on all that kind of garbage... and you are welcome to believe that you "SAW" ...INVISIBLE SPIRIT BEINGS... if you wish, that is your right... and though I find this manifestation of the FLESH... I hold no judgment against those who believe it to be of the SPIRIT...
there is NO "God"... that is their right... however, because they believe
this, CERTAINLY does NOT, establish "atheism" as TRUE!
I am just trying to be honest and giving you my prespective on all of this, here are some questions that you may find interesting that i have come up with from both sides of the hall:
* Why does the bible say: with out holiness no man shall see the Lord?
The JUDGEMENT of FIRE
, removes ALL unholiness in men... (1 Cor 3:11-15 / Mark 9:49)
and ALL MEN must experience that JUDGMENT...
* Where is satan and his demons?
In your mind X...
satan is NOT a "being"
... it is the principality of adversity... which brings with it, the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL... by trancending or disobeying, the command(s) of YHVH
satan is NOT a NAME... it is a Hebrew word
which means ADVERSARY or ADVERSITY... look it up X... It is found in Strongs Ex Concordance in the Hebrew dictionary #7854
satan is the principality or power of adversity (disobedience to holiness) which was created in MAN... that he might DISOBEY the command of GOD, which opened the KNOWLEDGE of GOOD and EVIL to him...CHRIST
Himself addressed the Apostle PETER as "satan"... do you think PETER
was actually "satan" X? (Matt 16:23 / Luke 4:8 / Mk 8:33)
Or is it that CHRIST
addressed the words of PETER, which were found to be ADVERSE to the mission He was sent to accomplish?
* Where are the fallen angels?
There are no such things... Fallen angels is a MYTH concocted by Christian Theology... The idea in itself is foolish... for if there are "fallen angels"... then GOD is NOT ALMIGHTY, rather is found to be a "tinkering" creator, just not quite getting it right.
Furthermore... as another noted... if 1/3 of the angels "fell"... what is to keep the other 2/3's from eventually succumbing to this ANGELIC, character flaw?
The truth is that the ALL
the HOLY ANGELS of GOD, are ETERNAL and HOLY... NONE have FALLEN from Heaven, as Christianity falsely supposes...
* What about the scientists that found hell in the center of the earth? with sound and everything, they even said that they are still atheist but yet believe in hell?
...scientists who DO NOT BELIEVE in the SPIRITUAL, have found "HELL"
... a (supposed) SPIRITUAL place... come on... don't you know when your leg is getting pulled X?
What scientist has been there and is an "eye witness" X? Do you just swallow this garbage without questioning it?
They found a SPIRITUAL "place" called "HELL"
in the midst of a PHYSICAL entity called EARTH?
Do you not see through
* What about the book "the divine revelation of hell"?
Don't know of such a book, and it is HARDLY a "Divine revelation"... whoever has the audacity to name such a thing "Divine" is welcome to show me and prove it with the WORD of GOD... otherwise... it is HARDLY "Divinely" revealed...
* What about the belief that if you believe in heaven then you must also believe in hell?
On what is this DUMB equation based? You base the very existence of HEAVEN on the existence of HELL
... as if it cannot EXIST without it...
* What about the book "Talmud Immanuel: The Original Book of Matthew"?
Sorry, I missed my copy... can you tell me where to buy one? And if this book exists, WHAT of its teachings, do you object to?
* What about "www.zeitgeistmovie.com"?
Zeitgeist? What the "HELL"
* And last but not least, why doesn't God just wipe us all to Hell and save us all there?
Now there's a grand idea!
Why doesn't GOD just "wipe us all to HELL
I can give you ONE good reason X... Areya ready? ...because HE LOVES US... Go JESUS
, go JESUS
...oh yeah, oh yeah,
, Go JESUS
Ok guys, those are some of the questions that are in my little head as i challenge my upbringing in the pentecostal system of belief. I do very much believe in the messiah Jesus Christ, and that He is the saviour of all of mankind. I believe that in order to meet God you must withstand His presence through His Son Jesus of Nazareth. I also believe that the bible has so many miss interpretations and leads many to wrong believes for the simple mistake of translation errors found all over the bible specially the KJV. I am also extremely afriad of falling into a certain parttern of belief for the very special reason that Christ warned of these new teaching at the end of the Age, false prophets and doctrines! And as far as i can see universalism comes just in time to tell everyone that everybody is going to be just fine!
Okay X... here's the deal... First
, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, ...willieH loves you
, you are a child of the MOST HIGH, and I always endeavor to look upon ALL His Children with HIS EYES and HIS HEART.Second
, ...If you wish to find TRUTH, dont be so ready to accept what "Scientists" say
... and what "movies" state
... and what self-titled books might claim
(being a "Divine revelation")...Third
, ...Put your nose into the WORD... PRAY without CEASING... dig, and dig and when you're done, ...dig some more... and THEN... you shall be an open vessel into which GOD might pour massive amounts of TRUTH... which are INSPIRED, ...not in the PHYSICAL realm (HELL
in the middle of the Earth
)... rather... are UNVEILED within the HEART... WHICH is an entity of INFINITE CAPACITY...peACe