Apologetics - Universal Reconciliation > Arguments Against Universal Salvation

Unique Proof For The Doctrine Of Universalism

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marie glen:
I simply hAd to copy and paste all those great verses in your article, for ready reference! "It is impossible for God to lie"!
- Is God's GReat Plan of Salvation great enough to save all? To believe otherwise is to blaspheme His good and perfect nature! And perfection makes NO mistakes. How do we get into the "Lamb's Book of Life", according to Paul (and Jesus!) it is by "believing". Exactly when, does anyone hear the notorious words "those whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life will go to the 2nd death"? After all have experienced being resurrected, and after all have witnessed what must be a very long day of the examination of all things.. a long 'day' of review on all human history, etc, as to what went wrong.. what worked out well and what didn't (and never can).. WHO, after all that, isn't going to "believe"?

battle axe:
Im greatly disturbed by this comments fro mthe CARM website, it staes this & how can we say that forever & ever is not forever?  Am i missing something or am I deluded that if the scriptures say forever yet im thinking otherwise, how can we twist forever to not been forever?  My logic has to ask, but still my heart says for sure punishment is a period.

Im just basing what im saying there to these texts > Clearly, the phrase "forever and ever" is a correct translation of the Greek ""eis tous aionas ton aionon -- forever and ever" Every instance of the phrase shows eternality.
 
But, a word of caution. The Universalist may say that Rev. 19.3 is not eternal because it is the description of smoke from the City of Babylon. But, the judgment that is cast upon her is only the beginning of the eternal punishment of the wicked, indicated in the statement that the smoke from her goes up forever and ever.
 
The phrase is always speaking of eternal duration.
 
Universalism is incorrect because not all will be saved because:
 


"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," (Rev. 20:10).

battle axe:
AND  > Universalists place a great deal of weight on the word "aion," which means "age." From the Greek root "aion" we also have the word "aionion," which is translated in most instances in most Bibles as "eternal."
 
The significance of this is that Universalists maintain that there is no eternal punishment in hell fire. Therefore, they assert that the word "aionion" is in reference to "age duration" and can have temporal duration. With this assertion they try to substantiate their theological position that all people everywhere will ultimately be saved.
 
But, what do Greek Dictionaries and Lexicons have to say about the words and phrases used in Greek that are translated into the English "age", "world", "eternal," "forever", "forever and ever," etc.? Let's find out:
 1.aion - , - age, world A."for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity; the worlds, universe; period of time, age."1

2.aionion, aionios - - eternal A."aionios," the adjective corresponding, denoting eternal. It is used of that which in nature is endless, as, e.g., of God, (Rom. 16:26), His power, (1 Tim. 6:16), His glory, (1 Pet. 5:10), the Holy Spirit, (Heb. 9:14), redemption, (Heb. 9:12), salvation, (5:9), life in Christ, (John 3:16), the resurrection body, (2 Cor. 5:1), the future rule of Christ, (2 Pet. 1:11), which is declared to be without end, (Luke 1:33), of sin that never has forgiveness, (Mark 3:29), the judgment of God, (Heb. 6:2), and of fire, one of its instruments, (Matt. 18:8; 25:41; Jude


 :eek:    Forever is forever how from the above evidence can we say it anyother way?
Mayb the inner witness of the HS tells us otherwise, but with so many written proof texts of forever meaning forever in the bible how did u ever twist it to an age of time?   I know ur heart because it is mine too & i hope all will be saved :HeartThrob:
But this evidence is substantial :o

I hope someone is brave enough or man enough to challenge what is shared there in CARM

misszoolander:
"And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever," -

The words "will be tormented" in Greek is  βασανισθήσονται,  βάσανος or basanos (transliterated) refers to the word touchstone.

"touch·stone  (tchstn)
1. A hard black stone, such as jasper or basalt, formerly used to test the quality of gold or silver by comparing the streak left on the stone by one of these metals with that of a standard alloy.
2. An excellent quality or example that is used to test the excellence or genuineness of others"

misszoolander:

--- Quote from: battle axe on January 26, 2013, 09:04:59 AM ---AND  > Universalists place a great deal of weight on the word "aion," which means "age." From the Greek root "aion" we also have the word "aionion," which is translated in most instances in most Bibles as "eternal."
 
The significance of this is that Universalists maintain that there is no eternal punishment in hell fire. Therefore, they assert that the word "aionion" is in reference to "age duration" and can have temporal duration. With this assertion they try to substantiate their theological position that all people everywhere will ultimately be saved.
 
But, what do Greek Dictionaries and Lexicons have to say about the words and phrases used in Greek that are translated into the English "age", "world", "eternal," "forever", "forever and ever," etc.? Let's find out:
 1.aion - , - age, world A."for ever, an unbroken age, perpetuity of time, eternity; the worlds, universe; period of time, age."1

2.aionion, aionios - - eternal A."aionios," the adjective corresponding, denoting eternal. It is used of that which in nature is endless, as, e.g., of God, (Rom. 16:26), His power, (1 Tim. 6:16), His glory, (1 Pet. 5:10), the Holy Spirit, (Heb. 9:14), redemption, (Heb. 9:12), salvation, (5:9), life in Christ, (John 3:16), the resurrection body, (2 Cor. 5:1), the future rule of Christ, (2 Pet. 1:11), which is declared to be without end, (Luke 1:33), of sin that never has forgiveness, (Mark 3:29), the judgment of God, (Heb. 6:2), and of fire, one of its instruments, (Matt. 18:8; 25:41; Jude


 :eek:    Forever is forever how from the above evidence can we say it anyother way?
Mayb the inner witness of the HS tells us otherwise, but with so many written proof texts of forever meaning forever in the bible how did u ever twist it to an age of time?   I know ur heart because it is mine too & i hope all will be saved :HeartThrob:
But this evidence is substantial :o

I hope someone is brave enough or man enough to challenge what is shared there in CARM

--- End quote ---

I will copy and paste Youngs literal Translation of most of the verses provided by CARM. This translation is as close to Greek as you can get. "The Bible text designated YLT is from the 1898 Young's Literal Translation by Robert Young who also compiled Young's Analytical Concordance. This is an extremely literal translation that attempts to preserve the tense and word usage as found in the original Greek and Hebrew writings. The text was scanned from a reprint of the 1898 edition as published by Baker Book House, Grand Rapids Michigan. The book is still in print and may be ordered from Baker Book House. Obvious errors in spelling or inconsistent spellings of the same word were corrected in the computer edition of the text.
"

Rom. 16:26 and now having been made manifest, also, through prophetic writings, according to a command of the age-during God, having been made known to all the nations for obedience of faith -- God is indefinite when it comes to time, time is his, he is not of time

1 Tim. 6:16 16 who only is having immortality, dwelling in light unapproachable, whom no one of men did see, nor is able to see, to whom [is] honour and might age-during! Amen. - Same as above

1 Pet. 5:10 10 And the God of all grace, who did call you to His age-during glory in Christ Jesus, having suffered a little, Himself make you perfect, establish, strengthen, settle [you]; - Indefinite glory, unknown amount of glory. Who can put a figure or an estimation to Gods glory?

Heb. 9:1414 how much more shall the blood of the Christ (who through the age-during Spirit did offer himself unblemished to God) purify your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? - Same as above.

John 3:16 for God did so love the world, that His Son -- the only begotten -- He gave, that every one who is believing in him may not perish, but may have life age-during.- Life for indefinite amount of time.

Age during meaning? Indefinite amount of time.Unknown amount of time



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