Typical

[Paul]

Ahh Yes, I have seen that Universalist Tent Make site before, Teaching that God in essence has Given men a Lic. To sin, It is othing more than satanic Heresy, Deluding the Gospel with false Infromation and Verses taken Out of Context and twisted to make it say what is comfortable to everyone, typical. I reject it, But, who won't listen as You have made up you mind on the Topic already, Though I do Not agree with Carm on all issues, I do agree with Matt on the Topic of Univaersalism, Your site is not the first to attack CARM and it won't be the Last, The Atheist have their own called AARM.org and I am familiar with that one as well, It is no threat and neither is Tentmaker

[martincisneros]

A license to sin, eh?  That means that we're on the exact same page with St. Paul because he had to face that accusation, more than these traditionalists ever will.  If you're not being accused of giving people a license to sin, then you're not preaching St. Paul's Gospel.  You'd think that Romans chapter 6 would be enough for these folks, but no, they feel the need to resort to the spiritual rape version of the Gospel where Christ is evidently saying "Love Me or ELSE!!!"

I can trust God to deal with any misunderstandings about a license to hunt for various indulgences of the flesh, emotions, and mind more under this paradigm, than I could deal with all of the ramifications of the "Love Me or ELSE!!!" (per)version of the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The "Love Me or ELSE!!!" (per)version of the Gospel of Jesus Christ has destroyed more lives than the message that every sin and disobedience will receive a just recompense of reward ever could.  Which is more faithful to the Spirit of the Scriptures?  The belief that the 99 aren't enough for Him, or the belief that the 99 are too many for Him and that He'll start trimming it back as needed to suit His own eternal glory which relishes the perdition of ungodly sinners?  Does He not say in Ezekiel that He takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked would turn away from their sin and live?  If this is His pleasure, then shall He indeed be robbed of it?

It's sad to think that there are Christians among us who only have hope in this life where reaching the people of the world is concerned.  Is the message that Jesus Christ will indeed receive all that He paid for genuinely the message of licentiousness?  When has Jesus Christ become the minister of sin?  Was the father in the prodigal son story giving his boy a license to sin?  When God reclaimed all of Ephraim at the close of the book of Hosea from "Hell," was He giving them a license to sin?  When God regathered Israel to their land, per His Word in Ezekiel 37, was He giving them a license to sin -- though they persist in their unbelief to the present hour?  When Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead, was He giving him a license to sin?  When did the goodness of God become a license to sin?  When did the finished work of Jesus Christ become a license to sin?  When did the Blood of Jesus Christ become a license to sin???

He's not seated at the right hand of God so that people can have a license to sin in Hell for all of eternity, that's for sure!

[reFORMer]

Out there on the web I feel a sort of embarrasment to even try to answer these sorts of posts.  Sometimes when I do they keep responding with proud and ignorant short little posts of what they heard or think about it.  I try to answer with thorough, Scriptural and well-reasoned essays that I suspect are just too long for their lazy selves to bother reading.  At least they give little indication they read what I post, repeating the same verses, for instance, that I several times had already pointed out contain nothing of what they're saying.

Hey, when Jesus talks about prayer He can tell us to do it WITHOUT CEASING!  How come when there's talk about the lake of fire (whatever that is) He forgets His vocabulary and we have to add words for Him so everybody will know He really meant to say "UNCEASING" torment and apply it to ever so many humans though the torment was only concerning the beast (spirit of physical flesh nature?) and the false prophet (spirit of religious flesh nature?) and the devil (adversarial spirit)?

[jabcat]

God will lift the veil and show you someday, either in this age or in the age to come.  In the meantime, be careful throwing stones because come time to answer for our deeds, it could be embarrassing for you.  Remember, some few stripes, some many.  James.

[martincisneros]

Remember, some few stripes, some many.

And if our traditionalist brethren are right that punishments shall be for all of eternity, inspite of the Biblical revelation to the contrary, make sure that it's only your nose getting rung out for blood for all of eternity rather than your whole head being hit with a baseball bat for all of eternity 'cause the bat for all of eternity would hurt!  Whereas getting your nose rung out for blood for all of eternity or having diarrhea for all of eternity would be more merciful, would be "fewer stripes" than being eternally beaten with a baseball bat   Eternal punishment is nothing if not mercifully proportioned to one's deeds, after all, right?  Maybe for some people it'll only be eternally craving alcohol or drugs for all of eternity, right?  You never know.  Some people may adjust to eternally liquifying in octillion degree heat after a few quadrillions upon quadrillions of years, right?  If not, they deserved what they got, just as we received our heavenly reward for making our wise and timely decision in favor of Jesus Christ before it was forever too late!  After all, if Jesus enjoys torching His enemies for all of eternity, who's to say that the Bible is right in saying the contrary.  It could [genuinely] be as the Hellangelists assert.  After all, Christ only died for the seed of Abraham; for those that believe, whether Jew or Gentile, and His death should never be held in contrast to the death of disobedient, unbelieving Adam as the Bible erroneously asserts!  Adam had his warning of what he would deserve if he crossed GodFather, so let him and his seed be damned for all of eternity, right?  God has no mercy upon the wicked.  Only upon the pious:  those that know what filthy rotten sinners that they are -- who want everyone else to know what filthy rotten sinners that they are, because they realize that they're such filthy rotten sinners -- and God forbid that Christ would have provided something better than Adam had left us in.  That would be unconstitutional in the Kingdom of God!  I mean, after all, if the Blood of Christ were to acheive it's ends -- or at least it's Biblical ends, that would be too ungodly to speak of, right?  God hates sinners, after all, doesn't He?  There's no higher truth in the Bible than that, so hopefully nobody here has ever sinned 'cause otherwise when you pray, all you're going to get is a "We're sorry.  Your call cannot be completed as dialed.  Please check the number and try your call again."  because God is the great example of turning His back on sinners, right?  He's too pure to behold sin, after all.  So, they're probably right and the Bible's probably not, so everybody that believes the Bible probably should zip their lips and stop causing all of this confusion because where grace abounds, sin does much more abound.  Selah

[Paul]

More:

What is the point of being a Christian therefore. I might as well be a gay dope addict Satanist 'cos I'll get to heaven in the end.

 

[jabcat]

Do you love Jesus, or are you just using Him for fire insurance?  If it's the latter, doesn't that indicate an issue with your heart, rather than the victorious gospel of Jesus Christ and the reconciliation of all?  Also, you need to remember...we all stand before the judgment seat of Christ, all our deeds will be judged, and again, some will get few stripes and some will get many.  And that's scripture.  James.

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PAUL... 

Hope you didn't "post & run"... 

Ahh Yes, I have seen that Universalist Tent Make site before, Teaching that God in essence has Given men a Lic. To sin, It is othing more than satanic Heresy, Deluding the Gospel with false Infromation and Verses taken Out of Context and twisted to make it say what is comfortable to everyone, typical. I reject it, But, who won't listen as You have made up you mind on the Topic already, Though I do Not agree with Carm on all issues, I do agree with Matt on the Topic of Univaersalism, Your site is not the first to attack CARM and it won't be the Last, The Atheist have their own called AARM.org and I am familiar with that one as well, It is no threat and neither is Tentmaker

And you Paul, are not the first to attack Universalism, and won't be the last...    And are not a "threat" to Tentmaker either...   :

Though you probably will not reply to any of the posts answering yours, ...here are a FEW FLAWS in your (and Matt Slick's) belief (and there are many, MANY MORE, not that YOU would hear them ):

(1)  Your view of Salvation (if it is other than ALL) is one which most surely includes YOURSELF... (which makes it kind of SELFISH -- dontcha think?) and,

(2)  It is shown to be SELECTIVE ...thereby making God PARTIAL when He says He is not in 5 different places in His Word... (Acts 10:34 / Rom 2:11 / Gal 2:6 / Eph 6:9 / Job 34:19)

(3)  Your view is based upon YOUR decision (for CHRIST), and/or YOUR deeds (obedience), then makes YOU your own SAVIOR, not CHRIST... for all He did was provide the Car, YOU ...are the driver... 

(4)  Your view shows that God is not ALMIGHTY for He did NOT get His ETERNAL desire (which by the way DOES NOT CHANGE), that being... that ALL would come to repentence and NONE would PERISH (2 Pet 3:9)... and portrays  FINITE man as able to TRUMP that ETERNAL desire...  So you depict GOD as becoming (even though He doesnt change) ETERNALLY ticked off at man (hell)... And an ETERNAL failure, therefore NOT ALMIGHTY... only somemighty...

(5)  Your view shows Scripture to be full of lies, one of BIGGEST being:  That 16:41 / His MERCY endures FOREVER... (Ps 118:1,2,3,4,29 / 106:1 / 107:1 / 136:1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20,21,22,23,24,25,26 / Jer 33:1 /  1 Chron 16:34 / 16:41 / 2 Chron 5:13 / 7:3 / 7:6 / 2 Chro 20:21) tell that His MERCY endures FOREVER, to the "hell-dwellers", PAUL... 

His MERCY cannot be confined to the SAVED... it is a principle that is either enacted WHEREVER He IS, or it is not... and there is NO PLACE that He is NOT, including your proposed "HELL" (Ps 139:8)

(6)  CHRIST failed to accomplish His mission which was to SAVE the WORLD - that which was LOST... (John 3:17 / Luke 19:10)

(7)  CHRIST is found doing what He was NOT SENT to do (condemn)... (John 3:17)

(8)  The NT reports fallacy, because He did NOT TAKE AWAY the sins of the WORLD... They remain (John 1:29)

(9)  GOD does what His Word says He will not do: Hold the trespasses of THE WORLD  against them (2 Cor 5:19)

(10)  GOD's LOVE is shown NOT to be ETERNAL, rather is shown to CHANGE, when both YHVH and CHRIST are said to CHANGE NOT (Mal 3:6 / Heb 13:8)

(11)  John is shown to be a liar, saying that CHRIST is the propitiation (expiator=atonement) for not only "Christians" PAUL, but the WHOLE WORLD... (1 John 2:2)

(12)  Your view of Salvation is that MEN have the most vital part, and PERFORM it, in spite of Scriptures report otherwise: (Eph 2:8-9)

That's enough for now, more later! 

If you can find it PAUL...

peAce...
...willieH 

[Paul]

I was quoting someone from the internet. Those aren't my words! I'm for Universal Salvation 

[Paul]

Double post

[willieH]

willieH: Hi PAUL...

Sorry, you didn't note that you were quoting from another!  Praise the Lord that He has revealed the TRUTH to you! 

Here is commentary on your other "quote":

More:

What is the point of being a Christian therefore. I might as well be a gay dope addict Satanist 'cos I'll get to heaven in the end.

 

This one makes Salvation about US... Dear brother, ...it is about YHVH and His Son JESUS CHRIST...

We are the beneficiaries... but it is about HIS GLORY, not about our sorrowfully pathetic individual failures!  It is our failures which GLORIFY His WORK... which  restores what WE destroy... 

This is proposing that God's POWER is not able or cannot save a "gay, dope addict, satanist", ...eh? 

Don't know about anyone else, but MY Bible says:  NOTHING is IMPOSSIBLE for GOD... (Matt 19:26 / Mk 10:27)

Because any given person is unable to "see" this, does not mean that it is not "visible" to others... 

And btw...  in this proposition, this ONE stating HIM/HERSELF as more DESERVING of Salvation than that "gay, dope addict, satanist"... If HE/SHE is NOT... then HE/SHE had best "drop the rock"... (John 8:1-11)

peAce...
...willieH 

[reFORMer]

More:

What is the point of being a Christian therefore. I might as well be a gay dope addict Satanist 'cos I'll get to heaven in the end.

 

I thought that's what you were..............before you got "saved!!!"