Author Topic: THINK.  (Read 16486 times)

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Offline reFORMer

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #50 on: January 26, 2008, 06:28:12 AM »
Excuse me, I'll be back in a moment.  Rod Serling's at the door.

Maybe I wasn't clear (Twilight Zone?). I'm not trying to say He's not the Son of Man...I'm saying wrt the fact(?) that He wasn't in Heaven at that moment, He was still the Son of Man (man) but also still divine (heavenly)...just trying to resolve a difficult verse to understand...

I was referring to Peacetroll saying He's not man because He's in the heavens.

According to 2 Cor 11 there are 3 heavens.  I understand them to correspond to the 3 dimensions in which we exist:  spirit, soul and body.  When we are regenerated our spirits are raised out of identification with the psychical or soulical dimension and elevated into the 3rd heaven or spiritual realm.  As that happens there is also "the merismos," the separation of spirit from soul.  Jesus was speaking of His being in the celestials while those around Him, because the Spirit had not yet been given, were still animalistic, born with death and without Divinely quickened spirits.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

jabcat

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #51 on: January 26, 2008, 06:52:45 AM »
Excuse me, I'll be back in a moment.  Rod Serling's at the door.

Maybe I wasn't clear (Twilight Zone?). I'm not trying to say He's not the Son of Man...I'm saying wrt the fact(?) that He wasn't in Heaven at that moment, He was still the Son of Man (man) but also still divine (heavenly)...just trying to resolve a difficult verse to understand...

I was referring to Peacetroll saying He's not man because He's in the heavens.

According to 2 Cor 11 there are 3 heavens.  I understand them to correspond to the 3 dimensions in which we exist:  spirit, soul and body.  When we are regenerated our spirits are raised out of identification with the psychical or soulical dimension and elevated into the 3rd heaven or spiritual realm.  As that happens there is also "the merismos," the separation of spirit from soul.  Jesus was speaking of His being in the celestials while those around Him, because the Spirit had not yet been given, were still animalistic, born with death and without Divinely quickened spirits.

Not sure I know enough about this particular topic to be able to absolutely agree with you, but it does make sense and is helpful..thanks!

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #52 on: January 26, 2008, 06:15:48 PM »
 I didn't say he's not man because he is in the heavens.  I quoted Jesus saying  He was the  son of Man which is in heaven.:sigh:

Jesus did not have inherited sin from Adam.  He was the son of God.  Think about this concerning man.

1 Corinthians 15:21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.

 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

And this.

1 Corinthians 15:45And so it is written, the lThe first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.  



« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 07:14:50 PM by Peacetroll »
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #53 on: January 26, 2008, 07:09:55 PM »
Peacetroll:
I don't know if we've met before or not--nice to chat with you!

I actually wanted to respond to your initial question about why anyone would go to death for the Gospel if he believes that all will be saved anyway. (I haven't read all the responses to this thread, so forgive me if I write something that is a repeat of someone else..!)

And so the verses came to mind where it says (1 Cor. 3:13-15) that all will be put through the fire and saved. At least that's how I read it. (Other opinions are always welcome!)

Then I thought of how wonderful it would be to die for love....!!

And then an article written by the late Bill Britton (which I never read till now) came to mind. I'm posting it below, although the website I found it on is: www.dimensionsoftruth.org 

His writing is poignant, and he even goes so far as to say to his enemies, "I love you." This is the Spirit of Sonship, I think..



My Beloved Enemy - A Word To My Enemies
YOU are not really my enemies at all. in reality you are some of the best friends I have. You who have lied about me, and about this ministry, who have tried to destroy people's faith and confidence in me, who have spread false and damaging rumors about my life and teachings. through your efforts there has been a work of grace wrought in this heart of mine that could never have happened without you.

My friends have been many, and loyal, and faithful to stand with me in many hours of trial and need. They have been strength to my weakness, added joy to my heart in time of sorrow, and have girded up my faith amidst raging doubts. They have brought me before the throne of grace innumerable times in their seasons of prayer. I could not have continued long in this spiritual conflict without these wonderful friends.

But, believe me, I speak in sincerity and truth, there can be no perfection in the lives of God's elect without the chastising work of a real enemy. For when a bitter vicious person begins to do all they can to destroy me and my work for God, then there is a work done that brings out all the wrong and evil attitudes and spirits that lie hidden and deeply rooted in my heart. When a friend extols all my good virtues and praises me from their heart of true friendship, I feel nothing but love for them. But, when I hear of an enemy who has unjustly brought shame upon me, there rises up a spirit of defending myself, and a spirit of "righteous indignation" to refute the enemy. It is then that the precious Holy Spirit does His office work and reveals to me the wrongness of my own spirit. I see in me then, the things I did not know were there before. With repenting and sorrow of heart I cry to God, and He delivers me from that which I have seen in my life. It was hidden, lying dormant, until you, my beloved enemy brought it to light with your crucifying process. The prophets of old would never have had the glory of being stoned for the Word of God-and no martyr's crowns could ever have been won by the early Christians without real enemies.

You see, I cannot crucify myself, and friends will not do it. So it takes you, my enemy, to bring me to the cross. And to the cross I must come, if ever I am to come to the glory of perfection. But I have much progress yet to make before coming to the image of my lovely Jesus. There is so much I must yet learn. And, my enemy, you are teaching me. I have learned that the road to glory is by way of the cross. Without you I would not have found the way. Someone had to crucify my Jesus. Not his friends, not his disciples, and He could not do it Himself. So Satan and the princes of this world stirred up hatred in the hearts of His enemies, and the work was done. Had they known that they were bringing Him into His glory, and bringing about the salvation of lost mankind, they would not have done it. And I'm sure that if you knew the good your efforts are working out in my life, you would not want to help me so much. But the work is being done, and I have learned to love you because of it. "Love thy enemies," He said, and I wondered how I could do it. But you have taught me. For because of you I have grown in God, increased in His Grace, and partaken of His divine nature.

Also because of you many have been turned away and refused to hear the truths imparted unto this vessel. Their ears have been filled with lies, and no doubt have thought that "no good thing could possibly come from such a one." But even here I have seen the hand of God. For those who have had ears to hear the voice of the Spirit have not believed the lies you have told them, and they have opened their hearts to the message for these last days. Thus, God has weeded out the chaff from the wheat, and is in the process of separating His own unto Himself. All things are working together.

So, my friends, for in reality I have no enemies in flesh and blood, your work has been sharp and cutting, and many times I was hurt and wounded deeply. But out of these trying experiences I have come forth a better Christian, and further on my way to being an overcomer. I doubt that you will receive any rewards for your lies and your efforts to destroy me, for "Woe unto them through whom these offences come." But I want you to know that though your loss may be great in the day of judgment, I love you and appreciate the ministry you have had in perfecting this life of mine.

NOW JUST A WORD TO ALL WHO HAVE READ THIS. I trust that you have understood that this word has not been applicable to me only, but should apply as well to all of God's dear children. May the Spirit speak to your heart and open your eyes to this great truth. that without chastisement and the work of enemies we can never come into full Sonship. And when we see how much our persecutions and afflictions mean to us in maturing our spirits and bringing us into His image, then we can truly "Love our enemies," and "bless them that curse us." Praise God for His marvelous plan! And remember. all the enemy can destroy in the fires of persecution is "hay, wood and stubble," and all they will melt and bring into His image is the "gold, silver and the precious stones." So let us be willing to burn that which will burn, that those things which will not burn may stand forever!


Love to all,
Brian

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #54 on: January 27, 2008, 07:58:54 PM »
 Our work that we build on the foundation of Christ is what is tried by fire,the Spirit of truth, when we stand before the judgement seat of Christ.As paul wrote.

1 Corinthians 3:11For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.

 12Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble;

 13Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.


2 Corinthians 5:10
For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.


Blessing those who curse you is a proof that you are one of the children of God.For what is said about God's treatment of the ones who hate Him?

Matthew 5:44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

 46For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #55 on: January 27, 2008, 10:35:47 PM »
Yes:
blessing those who curse you. loving those who hate you. offering life to those who kill you.

Isn't this the love of God for us?

Brian

Offline Cardinal

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #56 on: January 27, 2008, 11:31:31 PM »
PT, when you propose such questions it demonstrates why God cannot and does not reveal UR to the masses.  Not everyone can handle it or be trusted with it.  It seems that if you were convinced of UR, it would drive you mad. God is preserving your mind until you are ready.  :HeartThrob:

 :cloud9: You know, I really think that is true.  :thumbsup:
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #57 on: January 29, 2008, 04:26:16 PM »
Forgiving one's enemies is what the Son's and daughters of God do.

But to forego one's life just because your pleading for UR is also ignoring the life and hardships your sons and daughters will have without you.

I don't see any martyrs today dying for UR.  Nor do I believe you will see any in the future in my opinion.

At anyrate, if everyone's going to be saved, I just don't see much point in proselytizing myself.  But if all men are not by defacto saved, it seems to be a much bigger motivation to preach that their is Salvation in Christ to those who don't believe in him.

I've been on both sides of the fence, I should know :dontknow:
Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #58 on: January 29, 2008, 09:56:54 PM »
Isn't there a saying that says something like, "the heart has its reasons, that reason knows nothing of."?

Bri

Offline Reverend G

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #59 on: January 29, 2008, 11:19:01 PM »
Personally, I think the concept of telling everyone that you will find salvation, Jesus is why, check it out and find Him today is a much better and and more readily shared message than "Find Him or live an afterlife of eternal torment".  Better to not believe in Him, maybe it won't come true then?

jabcat

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #60 on: January 30, 2008, 05:16:19 AM »
Personally, I think the concept of telling everyone that you will find salvation, Jesus is why, check it out and find Him today is a much better and and more readily shared message than "Find Him or live an afterlife of eternal torment".  Better to not believe in Him, maybe it won't come true then?

Been sharing UR with a friend, got that question from him last night...you know the one..."then what's our motivation to serve and worship here and now"?  I was tempted to go into a lot of stuff...could quote things like "perfect love casts out fear, fear [is linked to] punishment, we love Him because He first loved us"..., "do we only serve Him now out of fear of hellfire and punishment?", etc.  The Holy Spirit just prompted me to use one word as an answer at that time...."Love".....I think when we truly see, when the veil is lifted, and we can see the depth and the breadth and height of what Jesus truly did for us on that cross, and when God places in our hearts that blessed spirit of reconciliation, we can do nothing else but love Him and want to please Him..."as the deer panteth for the water"...God is SO good...thank you Jesus.

Offline reFORMer

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #61 on: January 30, 2008, 08:38:15 AM »
LOVE is such an apt and comprehensive answer I hesitate to do anything other than magnify it.

I had written something elsewhere I wanted to post on this common objection.  I searched for it as a seperate topic here, as I thought it was, but without finding it.

Before shutting down the thread, removing it and banning me at "Christ Centered Forums" (very strange, since this "ET vs. UR" topic was not at all included in their statement of faith and they have demoniational "rooms" where those that register as with a specific sect can talk withother denizens of that organization, and Eastern Orthodoxy still teaches UR) --- as I say, before, when I could post there, this question # six by "Deacon Dean" was asked and my answer follows.

question:
If the Greek word you are advocating here aiwv-aion, does mean simply an "age," then I submit you do an injustice to the Holy Scriptures. If it does mean simply an "age" then where is the motivation to be saved in the first place? For if it does mean an "age," why not just sin as one wills, go into the lake of fire, and after a certain amount of time has passed, state of things marking an age or era; then I will burn up into nothing, and essentially escape from the lake of fire. I have escaped "eternal" punishment. This is the very core of the argument for "annilationism."

answer:
Nothing and no one escapes judgment.  We who have been regenerated are already "come unto...God the Judge of all." (Heb 12:22-23)     In Luke 15 there are three parables.  In the first one the 1 lost sheep is sought until found.  It isn't accidentally here in Jesus's words.  99 plus 1 equals 100.  What percent will he save?  Because of His death and resurrection He says, "I will draw all men unto me."  Is He going to be some other Jesus that the one we've met?  Maybe He's a two-faced God with one law for certain people and another for others?     The first parable here is of the Shepherd (Jesus, God the Son) who lost a sheep first and the Father (God) who lost a son, the Prodigal son last.  What aspect of deity is remaining in the middle?  Father, mother and son makes a family.  The middle allegorical tale was the woman (God the Holy Spirit, spirit being feminine in both Hebrew and Greek) who lost a coin!  The Greek word here of the "lost" coin is the same Greek word over which the case is attempted to be made that it represents destruction, as in "annihilation."  While better than the idea of Everlasting Torment, it's just not Biblical.  She found the coin and had a party.  You can't find what's annihilated.  Are you ready for the Wedding Party of the Lamb?  You're invited to the celebration of the Holy Spirit.

These experiences with a God who rejoices over His people is certainly enough motivation to turn from sin which prevents us from obtaining from His Kingdom,  where God is both the realm and the Ruler of that realm.  A thing that comes about from following the leading of the Holy Spirit and believing Jesus's words is to get away from pain and misery, whether in this life or beyond, which any reasonable person would want.  To teach too much suffering is as wrong as too little suffering.  Yes, God has made a way of escape.  Take heed how you build, for everyone's work will be tried by fire.  Strive to enter into the rest, for only the Overcomers are promised to not be hurt by the 2nd death.

By "saved" many mean a "born-again experience."  But it is not based on what God does in us that we are "saved."  That is an outcome of what He has done "in Christ, reconciling the World unto Himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them." (2 Cor 5:19)  Often a strong emotion of joy or sorrow is mistaken for the presence of God.  Certainly it is right to have thought and emotions resulting from God manifesting; but, people's experience changes from day to day.  What is laid in the foundation of Jesus Christ cannot be undone.  Faith in Him and the gospel will never disappoint.  Salvation is the transformation of spirit, soul and body into the Image and Likeness of God.  It is not ultimately about what happens when you die which is a temporary kind of detour.  Jesus has opened the door into victory over death as Paul said his aim was. (Phil 3:11, 14, 20)

I'm very surprised so many people make the argument that if there is an end to the torment through ceasing to exist or by going on into transformation it is unreasonable to stop sinning all we want.  If sinning is what you prefer I wonder how really "saved" you are.  Is the reward of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not incentive enough?

Some of the weakness in the mind here is as I've indicated.  It is said that to be "saved" is from hell.  Transformation is not in the cartoon version here.  Consider, however, that, "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." (Rom 5:6)  We do not stay ungodly.  The Holy Spirit changes us.  Yet the idea that God would save some person renowned for wickedness who went into the 2nd death is often protested.  If they were "saved" they wouldn't have that wicked identity any longer.  But the protest is forgetting salvation is transformation, as if the wicked would somehow be "saved," as in "preserved," to continue in wickedness.
I went to church; but, the Church wasn't on the program!  JESUS WANTS HIS BODY BACK!!  MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP!!!

jabcat

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #62 on: January 30, 2008, 09:40:49 AM »
LOVE is such an apt and comprehensive answer I hesitate to do anything other than magnify it.

I Consider, however, that, "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly." (Rom 5:6)  We do not stay ungodly.  The Holy Spirit changes us.  Yet the idea that God would save some person renowned for wickedness who went into the 2nd death is often protested.  If they were "saved" they wouldn't have that wicked identity any longer.  But the protest is forgetting salvation is transformation, as if the wicked would somehow be "saved," as in "preserved," to continue in wickedness.

Amen...God's blessing, James.

Offline firstborn888

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #63 on: January 30, 2008, 11:09:57 AM »
If Universal Salvation were true,

Why did the prophets and apostles put their lives and their loved one's lives in jeapardy every day? :dontknow:

It's counter-intuitive to place your family, your children and your friends lives in harms way when all shall be saved in the end regardless of their actions and beliefs. :mshock:

What's counter-intuitive is for you to believe what you say you believe and yet spend your time here trying to convince saved/born again believers that not everyone is going to be saved. Shouldn't you be out trying to convert lost people? :dontknow:
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Offline hopeful

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #64 on: January 30, 2008, 01:27:13 PM »
  If sinning is what you prefer I wonder how really "saved" you are.  Is the reward of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not incentive enough?

Such a good point, reFORMer! 

It seems obvious to me that many are NOT experiencing the indwelling of the Holy Spirit.
You're welcome to visit http://toknowhimmore.blogspot.com/

whyiloveitaly.com

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #65 on: January 31, 2008, 11:33:24 AM »
Nice post, Jabcat.. (Jan. 29 post). Simply beautiful.


reFORMer: you got banned from a "Christ-centered forum" because of what you wrote above???
Has anyone else here been banned from other forums for similar writings? (I don't participate on other forums, I can hardly keep up with one thread here!!) -Forget about the "unbeliever," maybe we need to share the love of God with other "Christians" first!

Love to all,
Bri

jabcat

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #66 on: January 31, 2008, 08:50:58 PM »
Nice post, Jabcat.. (Jan. 29 post). Simply beautiful.

Forget about the "unbeliever," maybe we need to share the love of God with other "Christians" first!

Love to all,
Bri

Thank you, God's blessing.

This brings up a pertinent point for me...I believe God's showing me that some who are already believers are in fact part of the "the fields are white", but it's because they are ones with more open hearts and minds within which He has already begun to work to prepare them for His "next steps".  However, there are those who are either really sincere in their love for Christ yet still steeped in their traditions to the point of not being able to hear, as well as those we probably all know who have the spirit of the Pharisee..."don't bother", other than to love them and let them know Jesus loves them.  I've seen others post that say unbelievers are more open and willing to accept the true God of love, in fact, are relieved and enthusiastic to hear that God is actually good and not a God of torture...anyway, God's blessing.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 08:55:55 PM by jabcat »

Offline Peacetroll

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #67 on: January 31, 2008, 09:27:01 PM »
 You say saved,  from what?  You will not be saved until the event you are going to be saved from occurs.  What one has is the promise of God that you will be saved.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

 Born again is not an accurate translation of the scripture.It should be born from above.

 Are you born from above?

John 1:12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.





Matthew 7:14
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

jabcat

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #68 on: January 31, 2008, 09:48:21 PM »
You say saved,  from what?  You will not be saved until the event you are going to be saved from occurs.  What one has is the promise of God that you will be saved.

Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.


Peacetroll, who are you responding to, and what's your purpose?  I ran up a few posts, including mine, and didn't see where anyone had said 'saved'... not saying they didn't.  Are you saying God hasn't individually begun the process of salvation within believer's hearts?

Oh I see, probably firstborn...anyway, still I'll ask the last sentence...God's blessing.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 09:51:08 PM by jabcat »

Offline firstborn888

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #69 on: February 01, 2008, 01:00:21 AM »
Romans 10:9
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Yes, walk us down the Roman road. That's what we need here PT, to be walked down the Roman road....
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Re: THINK.
« Reply #70 on: February 01, 2008, 06:28:18 PM »
PT

All are already saved.  It is us who have had a John 6:44 experience know about it.

Saved from what?  Simple our sins.  Read Matt 1:21.

I agree the Born again stuff is misrepresented and wrongly emphasised.  There is more to it.

Blessings
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Offline studier

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #71 on: February 13, 2008, 07:23:34 PM »
If Universal Salvation were true,

Why did the prophets and apostles put their lives and their loved one's lives in jeapardy every day? :dontknow:

It's counter-intuitive to place your family, your children and your friends lives in harms way when all shall be saved in the end regardless of their actions and beliefs. :mshock:

THINK.

No it isn't. It is counter-productive to not tell people of the truth. These men and women did not commit suicide, they were murdered by those who do not want people to know the truth.

Dante

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #72 on: February 13, 2008, 09:15:21 PM »
Peacetroll states:

There is only way way to the Kingdom of God and that is through that narrow gate which is Christ.

The other gate you speak of does not lead to the Kingdom of God, but to destruction (which you mention but apparently are failing to comprehend)

.,...........But who will listen to Jesus Christ over others???????  Who will believe the TRUTH over the lies of men????????


Dante says: Peacetroll, do you know what GREEK word was that was translated into the ENGLISH Word DESTRUCTION????

Well, I will tell you. The GREEK word is APOLLUMI!

"Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to DESTRUCTION (The GREEK word APOLLUMI ), and there are many who enter through it. "For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. (Matt. 7:13)

And do you know what the GREEK word is that we got the ENGLISH word "LOST" from in the passage below.

"For the Son of man is come to SAVE that which was LOST (The Greek word APOLLUMI)" (Matt. 18:11)!

The GREEK word for the "LOST" is APOLLUMI! It is the same APOLLUMI that is translated in Matt. 7:13 as DESTRUCTION.

So follow the LOGIC please.
Jesus came to SAVE, and WILL SAVE, that which has been DESTROYED (Or APOLLUMI)!!!!

« Last Edit: February 14, 2008, 02:52:57 PM by Dante »

Bethany

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #73 on: February 13, 2008, 09:48:39 PM »
If Universal Salvation were true,

Why did the prophets and apostles put their lives and their loved one's lives in jeapardy every day? :dontknow:

It's counter-intuitive to place your family, your children and your friends lives in harms way when all shall be saved in the end regardless of their actions and beliefs. :mshock:

THINK.

Not really. Quality in the now and in the future for the many fars outweighs the lives of few. That kind of thinking only exposes a self-centered world view.

Bethany

Bethany

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Re: THINK.
« Reply #74 on: February 13, 2008, 10:28:13 PM »
PT-

I think you need to conduct some research on the Lake of Fire. Your whole argument seems to be based in a literal interprtation of scripture. The title of this thread comes to mind as to what needs to be applied to your own question. Except that I would add- "outside of the box".

I have a question for you. Are you familiar with the first Law of Thermodynamics? If not, a basic description might read something like "all energy in the universe is held constant". It may change form through kinetics, but it is never destroyed- only converted. So, even if all unbelievers are resigned to burn in hell then it begs the question to make the assumption that you seem to be making about what that means. And to add to that, I think it needs to be remembered that fire has always been representatve of God. AND- when fire burns something that something becomes part of the fire- in fact becomes fire itself (changes to the form of the mechanism by which it is being converted). So with all of these factors in play then one can deduct what "all in all" means- symbolically speaking of course.

Bethany