Thank you CHB and Dreamer for your comments and input as well as your questions. I always appreciate conversation regarding scripture and most of all discussion on the truths regarding the true God expressed and manifested in the flesh as Jesus Christ.
I'll try to take each of your concerns and points in chronological order, and I'll do my best to answer with the logic that has been given to me and at the same time try as much as I can to see things once again from your point of view (For I was a URist without even knowing the term from a child until I was 36 years old, so I understand where you are coming from and I also empathize with your tenacity and grip you have on your current ideology).
First to reply to CHB and his comments/questions.
Think about this, why were they tortured, sawn asunder and the like? Because of what they believed.
CHB. I mean absolutley no offence, but you revealed the obvious. Obviously they are killed for their belief. The belief that you and I confess to be striving to learn and obtain.I'm simply saying, IF they believed that 'all homo-sapiens were going to ultimately be saved' then why did they bother arguing with others to the point of being murdered? To the point of leaving their wives widows and their children fatherless, when they could have just shut-up and beared it, seeing how in the end they too would be saved and all things would be clear and content?
I'm saying it is counter-intuitive and I'm amazed I never realized it for 36 years, so I'm not counting on you all grasping my position, yet.
We today would be done the same if all of us who believed in the salvation of all proclaimed it to the world
I don't think so. First off URist have a tendency to be bashful when calling evil deeds evil and/or opposing evil men (their fruits being exposing who they are). The true prophets and apostles died because they hated evil, exposed it and pointed their finger at the rich and greedy of the world and said 'you vipers, how shall you escape the damnation of hell??'.
I don't believe for one second that the rich and elite of John the baptists days could care less about what he actually believed. Herod had John killed (or allowed it), because of his INFLUENCE on others and indirectly his influence on Herod and the Pharisee's money machine.
Paul preached grace, not law, Jesus broke the law that is why they killed him. We who believe in the salvation of all preach grace without works.
Paul did preace grace, and mercy and predestination too. Jesus broke the law???????????????????????? That's why they killed him???????????????
I could write a whole chapter on that, but I'm not gonna. The 'earthy' reason Jesus died was because he harmed the Pharisee's money making scheme in the Temple
. The 'spiritual' reason was because the principalities of the air way thought he was the heir and they could kill him and gain his inheritance which is ETERNITY.
PeaceTroll, do you believe in grace with out works? Do you believe that there is something that you do that saves you?
I believe in Grace first and foremost. By Grace we are saved, this not of ourselves, but it is a GIFT FROM GOD. NO man comes to Christ without the Fathers predestinating him/her.What we must have to be saved is Christ in us and us IN Christ. How do we know if we are IN Christ and not IN Darkness?? When we have faith in him
(Again I could write a chapter on what faith in him is about, but I'll not do that now).
Are you saying dying for a god that would have unbelievers on their knees begging not be be roasted and obliterated is more worthy of your sacrifice and endurance than a God that would have those same people, now in the image of Christ, not on their knees begging for mercy, but on their knees thanking Him for His mercy?
no one is getting roasted. no one is gonna beg Jesus to not be obliterated. No where does Christ say all will be in his image. God will save all those who are of him. The spirits who are not of him but are of Satan (Jesus told you about these but some don't hear him), will have all blame for all the rightouess blood ever shed on their shoulders, which is punishment by condemnation to the second death.
Jesus never jested or talked in vain, and did he not say the following??
Do not be afraid of them who kill the body (Satan or tare-men). They are not able to kill the soul
. But fear Him Who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell (In this he speaks of the True God of whom he is the express image).
We tend to pattern ourselves (or at least strive to) after the god we worship.
I agree. But some people, scattered here and there have been given the truth metaphoric of being 'sealed'. And we all must try our best to understand scripture, run the race and seek him. For we should seek the Kingdom of God (Jesus) first and foremost.
Am I a man, of course. Do I profess to know all scripture and prophecy? Not by a looooooooooong shot. I am prone to fallacy as much as most anyone. Regardless I must try. I am driven too.
You seem like a patient, somewhat gentle person -- in the sense that I've never seen you go off even in the midst of all the people here that disagree with you, so I'm puzzled as to why the god you've fashioned seem so different from you.
I wasnt' always as patient. When I was a URist I use to get really mad, write things I regreted all the time and so on. But since I realize who I am, and how I am a child of Light, I realize now I MUST try my very best to be patient, just and kind to all men, specially those who seek Christ. My works should be a reflection of my faith to the best of my ability, but I fail every day, every hour. Thank God Jesus Christ is my salvation and righteousness (if he be my Lord and I a lowest servant of the lowest servants).
I believe that Christ is the Savior of the world. Why should that fact cause me not to endure? Why would it cause our forebrothers not to endure?
Because if you think all men are saved in the end, why would you be tortured and have your legs broke into 1000 pieces and your skin flayed as well as your childrens skulls crushed etc., when you know all you ahve to do is relax, shut up and not be controversial to the elite, and you would live. If all men are saved, I don't think anyone would be highly motivated to preach the philosophy in the face of death.
Let me ask you -- what is your motivation for enduring? Is it love for God and your wanting to please Him or is it just to save your hind particles?
So that perhaps one day I may be a floor scrubber in the House of the Lord, and all those in my house may be in Jesus' House as well as all those who ever were kind to me. I run the race not only for myself, but for my whole house, friends and even aquantenaces,....even this is not of my doing, but of the Lords.
Peace to all IN