Apologetics - Universal Reconciliation > Arguments Against Universal Salvation

The Problem with Problem Passages

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eaglesway:
When our revelation is mixed up with our ego, our self-esteem, our desire to be "somebody", or even our "career goals", we have a tendency to "build forts around points". Building a fort around a point can be dangerous, because it involves "preserving our view of the truth" rather than "Being led into all truth by the Spirit". Building forts around points is the way that towers(points) and strongholds(forts) that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God get erected. The surest deliverance from towers and strongholds are "problem passages". Problem passages seem like burrs in our saddle, but they can be the "secret entrance" into the hidden wisdom of God. They can also become the "secret passageway" out of doctrinal bondage; sectarianism; arrogance and selfish ambition.

Mat 13:45-46  "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls,  and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.

When we "hold a position" based on some scriptures- as if they opposed certain other scriptures- we are usually refusing to press in through the veil to a deeper truth. We are often splitting the two sides of one coin- when the "whole coin" is needed to "purchase understanding"- to come into the mind of Christ. Any point of view that "comes down from heaven" must incorporate all the scriptures. If we have to wrestle to much to excuse verses that seem to contradict our "point", we may be missing the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God altogether. If we are ever to move into the "unity of the faith", we cannot ignore the "problem passages" that assail the completion of our "citadel".

Joh 10:1-5  "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. "But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. "When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. "A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

Two things that will reveal whether we are trying to "build forts around points" or understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God are-
1) Am I able to abide in Christ, in the meekness and longsuffering of the Savior when challenged;
and
 
2) AmI willing to accept that the Logos is complete, it is just not completely understood by me, so I ought to tread somewhat lightly when in discussions with my brothers and sisters because maintaining "the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" is of way more importance to God than my name, my beliefs, my mission and my knowledge.

 The voice of the Lord will be heard in those who come through the "door"- Christ crucified", and the tinny sound of a religionist's dogma can be heard surrounding even some of the most beautiful doctrines of the faith when "held" in the flesh.

Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me". it is no wonder people flee the "church" and prefer to seek comfort elsewhere. How can a people who cannot love their own brethren be expected to be a city set upon a hil, a lamp set upon a Lampstand? It is THE LIGHT that draws men to God from out of the darkness. How do we kno if we are walking in the light"?

"If we walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin".

We teach methodology and will worship and very few get delivered and very few come into the "church" because we compete with one another rather than compel one another in the love of Christ.

We ignore, for instance, these "problem passages" as we go off on our "holy missions".

"By THIS they will kno you are by disciples, and that the Father has loved you......by your love for one another!

 By this you JOY WILL BE MADE FULL.....by your love for one another!

 When our joy is full then we are salt and light to the world. We have that inner witness that we are in the will of God and all men are drawn to the one who is being lifted up....Christ and Him Crucified. He is seen in us in this way.....when the veil of flesh is torn....when our pride becomes humility.....when our peace surpasses our understanding.

So, "speaking the truth in love" we can edify one another, building up the body, equipping the saints, and pressing into the "unity of the faith". The sheep know His voice, and they will not follow another- no matter how much knowledge that person has.

1Co 13:1-2  If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.  (2)  If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Now we see through a glass dimly.......Now we all stumble in many ways......Now we have some problem passages ;o)



micah7:9:
Well said. Amen :bigGrin: :HeartThrob:

SevanthDay:

--- Quote from: eaglesway on November 04, 2011, 08:48:19 AM ---When our revelation is mixed up with our ego, our self-esteem, our desire to be "somebody", or even our "career goals", we have a tendency to "build forts around points". Building a fort around a point can be dangerous, because it involves "preserving our view of the truth" rather than "Being led into all truth by the Spirit". Building forts around points is the way that towers(points) and strongholds(forts) that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God get erected. The surest deliverance from towers and strongholds are "problem passages". Problem passages seem like burrs in our saddle, but they can be the "secret entrance" into the hidden wisdom of God. They can also become the "secret passageway" out of doctrinal bondage; sectarianism; arrogance and selfish ambition.

Mat 13:45-46  "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls,  and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.

When we "hold a position" based on some scriptures- as if they opposed certain other scriptures- we are usually refusing to press in through the veil to a deeper truth. We are often splitting the two sides of one coin- when the "whole coin" is needed to "purchase understanding"- to come into the mind of Christ. Any point of view that "comes down from heaven" must incorporate all the scriptures. If we have to wrestle to much to excuse verses that seem to contradict our "point", we may be missing the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God altogether. If we are ever to move into the "unity of the faith", we cannot ignore the "problem passages" that assail the completion of our "citadel".

Joh 10:1-5  "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. "But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. "When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. "A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

Two things that will reveal whether we are trying to "build forts around points" or understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God are-
1) Am I able to abide in Christ, in the meekness and longsuffering of the Savior when challenged;
and
 
2) AmI willing to accept that the Logos is complete, it is just not completely understood by me, so I ought to tread somewhat lightly when in discussions with my brothers and sisters because maintaining "the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" is of way more importance to God than my name, my beliefs, my mission and my knowledge.

 The voice of the Lord will be heard in those who come through the "door"- Christ crucified", and the tinny sound of a religionist's dogma can be heard surrounding even some of the most beautiful doctrines of the faith when "held" in the flesh.

Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me". it is no wonder people flee the "church" and prefer to seek comfort elsewhere. How can a people who cannot love their own brethren be expected to be a city set upon a hil, a lamp set upon a Lampstand? It is THE LIGHT that draws men to God from out of the darkness. How do we kno if we are walking in the light"?

"If we walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin".

We teach methodology and will worship and very few get delivered and very few come into the "church" because we compete with one another rather than compel one another in the love of Christ.

We ignore, for instance, these "problem passages" as we go off on our "holy missions".

"By THIS they will kno you are by disciples, and that the Father has loved you......by your love for one another!

 By this you JOY WILL BE MADE FULL.....by your love for one another!

 When our joy is full then we are salt and light to the world. We have that inner witness that we are in the will of God and all men are drawn to the one who is being lifted up....Christ and Him Crucified. He is seen in us in this way.....when the veil of flesh is torn....when our pride becomes humility.....when our peace surpasses our understanding.

So, "speaking the truth in love" we can edify one another, building up the body, equipping the saints, and pressing into the "unity of the faith". The sheep know His voice, and they will not follow another- no matter how much knowledge that person has.

1Co 13:1-2  If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.  (2)  If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Now we see through a glass dimly.......Now we all stumble in many ways......Now we have some problem passages ;o)

--- End quote ---

Hello eaglesway:

Let us keep this OP going because it is an important one. Please bring up some of these problematic scriptures and lets us discuss them.

God bless you,

SeventhDay

lastpost:

--- Quote from: eaglesway on November 04, 2011, 08:48:19 AM ---When our revelation is mixed up with our ego, our self-esteem, our desire to be "somebody", or even our "career goals", we have a tendency to "build forts around points". Building a fort around a point can be dangerous, because it involves "preserving our view of the truth" rather than "Being led into all truth by the Spirit". Building forts around points is the way that towers(points) and strongholds(forts) that exalt themselves against the true knowledge of God get erected. The surest deliverance from towers and strongholds are "problem passages". Problem passages seem like burrs in our saddle, but they can be the "secret entrance" into the hidden wisdom of God. They can also become the "secret passageway" out of doctrinal bondage; sectarianism; arrogance and selfish ambition.

Mat 13:45-46  "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls,  and upon finding one pearl of great value, he went and sold all that he had and bought it.

When we "hold a position" based on some scriptures- as if they opposed certain other scriptures- we are usually refusing to press in through the veil to a deeper truth. We are often splitting the two sides of one coin- when the "whole coin" is needed to "purchase understanding"- to come into the mind of Christ. Any point of view that "comes down from heaven" must incorporate all the scriptures. If we have to wrestle to much to excuse verses that seem to contradict our "point", we may be missing the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of God altogether. If we are ever to move into the "unity of the faith", we cannot ignore the "problem passages" that assail the completion of our "citadel".

Joh 10:1-5  "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. "But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep. "To him the doorkeeper opens, and the sheep hear his voice, and he calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. "When he puts forth all his own, he goes ahead of them, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. "A stranger they simply will not follow, but will flee from him, because they do not know the voice of strangers."

Two things that will reveal whether we are trying to "build forts around points" or understand the mysteries of the kingdom of God are-
1) Am I able to abide in Christ, in the meekness and longsuffering of the Savior when challenged;
and
 
2) AmI willing to accept that the Logos is complete, it is just not completely understood by me, so I ought to tread somewhat lightly when in discussions with my brothers and sisters because maintaining "the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace" is of way more importance to God than my name, my beliefs, my mission and my knowledge.

 The voice of the Lord will be heard in those who come through the "door"- Christ crucified", and the tinny sound of a religionist's dogma can be heard surrounding even some of the most beautiful doctrines of the faith when "held" in the flesh.

Jesus said, "If I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me". it is no wonder people flee the "church" and prefer to seek comfort elsewhere. How can a people who cannot love their own brethren be expected to be a city set upon a hil, a lamp set upon a Lampstand? It is THE LIGHT that draws men to God from out of the darkness. How do we kno if we are walking in the light"?

"If we walk in the light as He is in the light we have fellowship with one another and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin".

We teach methodology and will worship and very few get delivered and very few come into the "church" because we compete with one another rather than compel one another in the love of Christ.

We ignore, for instance, these "problem passages" as we go off on our "holy missions".

"By THIS they will kno you are by disciples, and that the Father has loved you......by your love for one another!

 By this you JOY WILL BE MADE FULL.....by your love for one another!

 When our joy is full then we are salt and light to the world. We have that inner witness that we are in the will of God and all men are drawn to the one who is being lifted up....Christ and Him Crucified. He is seen in us in this way.....when the veil of flesh is torn....when our pride becomes humility.....when our peace surpasses our understanding.

So, "speaking the truth in love" we can edify one another, building up the body, equipping the saints, and pressing into the "unity of the faith". The sheep know His voice, and they will not follow another- no matter how much knowledge that person has.

1Co 13:1-2  If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but do not have love, I have become a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.  (2)  If I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing.

Now we see through a glass dimly.......Now we all stumble in many ways......Now we have some problem passages ;o)

--- End quote ---

This is well said friend, thank you indeed
                                       :dsunny:

dajomaco:
I used to say all I know is Jesus the Christ and him crucified.
Then continue on arguing and debating my point, or some passage that I thought
the Holy Spirit had shown me and I was to enlighten and debate with any one
who saw it differently.

UR. And specifically this site has led me into a different field.
so I have let go and bought into the foundation.

Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant seeking fine pearls, 
and upon finding one pearl of great value,
he went and sold all that he had and bought it.

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