Paul,A couple of years ago I put a paper together against the Westminster Confession Chapter XXXII
If you have additional quotes from more resources then please post them.
Of the State of Men after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead
I pulled from that paper... Here's some more but may seem disorganised as I'm not posting the Westminster Confession with it.The second problem is that the spirit is not the same as the soul.
(Gen 2:7) The Spirit is the breath of life (Psa 146:4) His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish
. (Job 7:21). "Why then do You not pardon my transgression And take away my iniquity? For now I will lie down in the dust
; And You will seek me, but I will not be
." Let's see what the scriptures say about the soul and death.
(Psa 78:50) He leveled a path for His anger; He did not spare their soul from death
, But gave over their life to the plague, (Psa 116:8) For You have rescued my soul from death
, My eyes from tears, My feet from stumbling. (Psa 115:17) The dead do not praise the LORD
, Nor do any who go down into silence
; (Ecc 9:10) Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no
work or thought
or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going. It appears death is a type of sleep too.
(Psa 13:3) Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death
, (1Th 4:13) But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep
, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. (Dan 12:2). "Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground
will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. (Act 7:60) And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." And when he had said this, he fell asleep
. Is it our bodies or soul that dwell in the grave?
(Joh 5:28-29) Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice and come out, those who have done good to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil to the resurrection of judgment. Do we have immortal subsistence?
(Job 10:5) 'Are Your days as the days of a mortal
, Or Your years as man's years, (Isa 13:12) I will make mortal man
scarcer than pure gold And mankind than the gold of Ophir. (1Co 15:53-55). For this perishable body must put on the imperishable
, and this mortal body must put on immortality. When the perishable puts on the imperishable, and the mortal puts on immortality, then shall come to pass the saying that is written: "Death is swallowed up in victory." "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" Psa 146:3 Do not trust in princes, In mortal man, in whom there is no salvation. And the telling verse is…
(1Ti 6:16) who alone possesses immortality
) and dwells in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see. To Him be honor and eternal dominion! Amen. Immortality is what we receive from the tree of life
). (Rev 22:14) Blessed are those who wash their robes, so that they may have the right to the tree of life and that they may enter the city by the gates. Who is in Heaven?
(Joh 3:13) No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.What does Paul tell us?
2Ti 2:18 men who have gone astray from the truth saying that the resurrection has already taken place
, and they upset the faith of some. John tells us Rev 20:5
The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were completed. This is the first resurrection
. Looks like we stay dead until the resurrection. Below is a small sample of scripture that clearly shows that when we die we stay dead until our resurrection. Our souls are not immortal!
Gen 3:19 By the sweat of your face you shall eat bread, till you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken; for you are dust, and to dust you shall return
Psa 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?
Psa 13:3 Consider and answer me, O LORD my God; light up my eyes, lest I sleep the sleep of death
Psa 22:15 my strength is dried up like a potsherd, and my tongue sticks to my jaws; you lay me in the dust of death
Psa 88:10 Do you work wonders for the dead? Do the departed rise up to praise you?
Psa 115:17 The dead do not praise the LORD
, nor do any who go down into silence.
Psa 146:4 When his breath departs, he returns to the earth; on that very day his plans perish
Job 7:21 Why do you not pardon my transgression and take away my iniquity? For now I shall lie in the earth; you will seek me, but I shall not be
Ecc 3:18-19 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts. 19 For the fate of the sons of men and the fate
of beasts is the same. As one dies so dies the other; indeed, they all have the same breath
) and there is no advantage for man over beast
, for all is vanity.
Ecc 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit (Breath rûaḥ
) returns to God who gave it. Notice it is God's Spirit that returns back to him. It is not our spirit, The word is rûaḥ: A feminine noun meaning spirit, wind, breath.
Ecc 9:4 But he who is joined with all the living has hope, for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
Ecc 9:10 Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going
Isa 26:19 Your dead shall live; their bodies shall rise
. You who dwell in the dust, awake and sing for joy! For your dew is a dew of light, and the earth will give birth to the dead.
Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake
, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Joh 5:28 Do not marvel at this, for an hour is coming when all who are in the tombs will hear his voice Who are in the tombs if we are with Jesus at death?
Joh 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. That means no one!
Joh 11:11 After saying these things, he said to them, "Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep, but I go to awaken him."
… 14 So Jesus then said to them plainly, "Lazarus is dead
Joh 11:24 Martha said to him, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection on the last day
." Notice it does not say on his last day!
Act 7:60 And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them." And when he had said this, he fell asleep
. Like Lazarus, dead!
Act 2:34 For David did not ascend into the heavens
, but he himself says, "'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand,
Act 2:29 "Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. And he is still there!
1Co 15:26 The last enemy to be destroyed is death
. The last not first!
1Th 4:13 But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. Asleep like Lazarus, dead
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise
. How can the dead rise if they are in heaven? Note it reads dead, not body!
2Pe 3:4 They will say, "Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since the fathers fell asleep
, all things are continuing as they were from the beginning of creation
1Ti 6:16 who alone has immortality
) who dwells in unapproachable light, whom no one has ever seen or can see. To him be honor and eternal dominion. Amen. Alone? Yes! This is what makes the resurrection such a big deal. The dead are raised back to life! The soul is not immortal. No such scripture exist that says so, it is only the tradition of men!
Rev 20:4 Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and
for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life
and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended
. This is the first resurrection
. They are dead not bodyless souls somewhere in heaven!
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But each in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, then at his coming those who belong to Christ
Job 14:12 So man lies down and does not rise
. Until the heavens are no longer, He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep
. That is until the heavens are no longer
Modern scholars realize that the view of death which has prevailed (and is now promoted in church constantly) is not biblical . Far from it, it is, amazingly, actually "pagan" and "Gnostic." In a standard text of Christian Dogmatics we read:
"...the hellenization process by which Christianity adopted many Greek [PAGAN] thought patterns led in a different direction as the eschatological hope came to be expressed in Hellenistic categories. Irenaeus said: 'It is manifest that the souls of His disciples also, upon whose account the Lord underwent these things shall go away in the invisible place
allotted to them by God. and there remain until the resurrection
, awaiting that event. Then receiving their bodies and rising in their entirety, that is bodily, just as the Lord arose, they shall come into the presence of God.' Irenaeus' statement contains the concept of an abode or purgatory in which the soul of the dead remains until the universal resurrection. We should not denounce this as a deviation from biblical teaching, since the point of the assertion is antignostic
. Irenaeus wanted to reject the Gnostic idea that at the end of this earthly life the soul immediately ascends to its heavenly abode
. As the early fathers fought the pagan idea
that a part of the human person is simply immortal, it was important for them to assert that there is no rectilinear ascent to God. Once we die, life is over" (CHRISTIAN DOGMATICS
, BRAATEN/JENSON, VOL. 2, p. 503, section written by Hans Schwartz, Professor of Protestant Theology, University of Regensburg, Federal Republic of Germany)
There is a further impressive protest against the popular idea that the dead survive as conscious "souls" in heaven. One might expect that such protest would initiate a wide-scale reform amongst the clergy. Alan Richardson writes in A Theological Word Book of the Bible
(pp. 111, 112, emphasis added): This is getting quite long so I better stop.