Author Topic: St Faustinas Vision of Hell  (Read 2927 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Universalist Catholic

  • 300
  • *
  • Posts: 405
St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« on: January 27, 2010, 03:03:47 AM »
She has claimed that one of the miseries of Hell is that their condition does not change.  Could someone explain why she would have seen a hell, claiming that they would always be in terrible suffering forever?

Heres a link
http://www.divinemercysunday.com/

There is also a claim that Satan has been trying to fool us into thinking that the Fires of Hell are fake.

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9076
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2010, 03:13:03 AM »
Just one thought I have.  Any visions, dreams, doctrines, beliefs that are truth will be supported by the witness of scripture.  If I can go to accurately translated, Spirit-revealed scriptures and clearly show that the scriptures say something contrary to someone's personal claim, then IMO, I must go with the Spirit-revealed Word of God. 

600+ scriptures that "expound on the truth of the reconciliation of all things" Dr. Harold Lovelace

http://haroldlovelace.com/lovelacelist.php

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9076
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2010, 03:16:47 AM »
Example from the Faustinas site - "With so many (so-called) Catholics away from the practice of their faith, there is a great need for evangelization.  Not only are we all called to actively evangelize all peoples, we are called to bring home our lost and alienated brethren.  Our Lord has given us a great gift called Divine Mercy Sunday that if used properly, can restore our Church to overflowing.

Jesus gave us many parables that would set the standard for us to follow.  He told us how the Good Shepherd rejoiced at finding His lost sheep.  How so many more lost sheep need to be found today.  Not only does He rejoice today when the sheep are found, but He is very much saddened when even just one is lost.

In His revelations to Saint Faustina, which He gave for the world, Jesus remarked that "The loss of each soul plunges Me into mortal sadness" and that "The flames of mercy are burning Me, clamoring to be spent" (from the diary, entry #1397, 50).  If we love Jesus, then we must do everything that we can, to find His lost sheep.

Our Lord has given us a very simple way to bring our lost sheep back home.  It is called the "Feast of Mercy" or "Divine Mercy Sunday".  This great feast, which the Church has been celebrating universally since Pope John Paul II canonized St. Faustina, in the year 2000, has everything in it that we need to restore our Church.

Jesus requested that a Feast of Mercy be established in the Church on the Sunday after Easter and He has made a great promise to any soul that would turn to Him by going to Confession and then receiving Holy Communion on that feast-day."


Is this scriptural?


Offline Universalist Catholic

  • 300
  • *
  • Posts: 405
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2010, 03:47:24 AM »
Another interesting thing I would like to point out is the fact that St. Faustina stated that the souls that go to hell are those who did not believe in hell.  Interesting thing about this is that Clement of Alexandria, Clement of Rome, Gregory of Nyssa, and Marcione had all been canonized as Saints very quickly, yet they did not believe in Eternal Hellfires.  However, St. Augustine, the man who really forced the ideas of Eternal Torment into the Church was not canonized as a saint for about 700 years after his death.

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9076
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2010, 04:05:23 AM »
I saw the "no hell believers" part.  Interesting on the rest  :thumbsup:.  Some contradictions?  :bigGrin:

martincisneros

  • Guest
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2010, 04:25:10 AM »
Another interesting thing I would like to point out is the fact that St. Faustina stated that the souls that go to hell are those who did not believe in hell.  Interesting thing about this is that Clement of Alexandria, Clement of Rome, Gregory of Nyssa, and Marcione had all been canonized as Saints very quickly, yet they did not believe in Eternal Hellfires.  However, St. Augustine, the man who really forced the ideas of Eternal Torment into the Church was not canonized as a saint for about 700 years after his death.
Interesting. Interesting.  Very quickly verses 700yrs.  When did they start canonizing them for a true contrast on this?  I've never even looked into when they started all of that.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 04:28:38 AM by martincisneros »

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9076
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2010, 04:33:28 AM »
I found this at catholic.org


How does the Church choose saints?

Canonization, the process the Church uses to name a saint, has only been used since the tenth century. For hundreds of years, starting with the first martyrs of the early Church, saints were chosen by public acclaim. Though this was a more democratic way to recognize saints, some saints' stories were distorted by legend and some never existed. Gradually, the bishops and finally the Vatican took over authority for approving saints.

it does sound like there was a sort of "grassroots" system prior to the official system
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 05:04:22 AM by jabcat »

Offline jabcat

  • Admin
  • *
  • Posts: 9076
  • SINNER SAVED BY GRACE
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2010, 04:35:44 AM »
ah, looking at my copy/paste more closely, there apparently was a "less official" process right away..then the "big boys" took it over?   When the pope got involved, did that make 'em holier?   :mblush:

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2010, 05:59:06 PM »
 :cloud9: There is no such thing as a "feast of mercy" in the scriptures that Jesus supposedly instituted. The feasts Jesus and His disciples went to were the Jewish feasts established by God to Moses and again revealed in type and shadow in the Tabernacle.

For instance, if you do the homework, the "last supper" was a Passover seder (the cups of wine and the timing of it mentioned in scriptures, give it away). Easter, was a tradition of men that the RCC started in lieu of the Passover, and it came from the goddess Ishtar paganism. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline Universalist Catholic

  • 300
  • *
  • Posts: 405
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2010, 06:30:55 PM »
If we could, could someone explain why this woman would have these hellish visions?

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2010, 06:39:43 PM »
 :cloud9: Well, I'll tell you what was given to me pertaining to why they sometimes have these "visions".........I'm sorry for the depth of this, but there is no other way I can explain it.

At death, we "ascend" or "descend" (think of Jacob's ladder) to whatever glory we have created while here. We were made in the Creator's image and likeness, which means we have creative capabilities as well. This is also why it says, by your OWN wickedness, you'll be reproved.

The soul of man is like a womb, in that it will reproduce whatever seed is planted in it. Christ is the good seed of the kingdom (Matt. 13) and even thought He has been "planted" in the soul of man, if that Seed has not been "tended", "weeded", "watered" and allowed to grow to maturity, then at whatever level of maturity they have attained to spiritually, that is the "garden" they will perceive (still looking thru the glass darkly = darkened soul) UNTIL He comes to "get" them and save them out of their own personal "glory". This is why it says to take care that the light within you is not darkness, ie. mind not renewed by the washing of the Word.

It is NOT permanent, anymore than our state here is permanent. Tears last but for the nighttime of the soul, but in the morning (when the Daystar comes; He is the bright and morning star), joy comes. Is is "real"? It is to them at the time. It's like a bad dream.  Did God create it? NO.

God put Adam to sleep but you can't find anywhere in the OT where He woke him up. The reason is, we are to AWAKE, shake off the dust, ARISE, and Christ will give us light (understanding of the TRUTH, which is not darkness).

Glory is essentially the condition or measure of His Spirit that has been allowed to manifest within the soul of man. Blessings....
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 06:50:09 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Zeek

  • Guest
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2010, 07:05:27 PM »
:cloud9: Well, I'll tell you what was given to me pertaining to why they sometimes have these "visions".........I'm sorry for the depth of this, but there is no other way I can explain it.

At death, we "ascend" or "descend" (think of Jacob's ladder) to whatever glory we have created while here. We were made in the Creator's image and likeness, which means we have creative capabilities as well. This is also why it says, by your OWN wickedness, you'll be reproved.

The soul of man is like a womb, in that it will reproduce whatever seed is planted in it. Christ is the good seed of the kingdom (Matt. 13) and even thought He has been "planted" in the soul of man, if that Seed has not been "tended", "weeded", "watered" and allowed to grow to maturity, then at whatever level of maturity they have attained to spiritually, that is the "garden" they will perceive (still looking thru the glass darkly = darkened soul) UNTIL He comes to "get" them and save them out of their own personal "glory". This is why it says to take care that the light within you is not darkness, ie. mind not renewed by the washing of the Word.

It is NOT permanent, anymore than our state here is permanent. Tears last but for the nighttime of the soul, but in the morning (when the Daystar comes; He is the bright and morning star), joy comes. Is is "real"? It is to them at the time. It's like a bad dream.  Did God create it? NO.

God put Adam to sleep but you can't find anywhere in the OT where He woke him up. The reason is, we are to AWAKE, shake off the dust, ARISE, and Christ will give us light (understanding of the TRUTH, which is not darkness).

Glory is essentially the condition or measure of His Spirit that has been allowed to manifest within the soul of man. Blessings....

that is almost identical to a "new age" book i'm reading, that talks about the ascending of consciousness; and whatever level of ascension obtained; will be continue on till the appointed day of ONENESS. 

I am amazed at the similarities between different "mystical beliefs" and those here who "spiritualize" the scriptures. 

very interesting to me.

Offline Taffy

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 4167
  • Gender: Male
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2010, 07:29:18 PM »
 :icon_flower:
Isa 29:18 And in that day shall the deaf hear the words of the book, and the eyes of the blind shall see out of obscurity, and out of darkness.

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2010, 07:35:01 PM »
 :cloud9: The New Age also has a fragment (compare with the 12 baskets of FRAGMENTS that were LIFTED UP after eating of the multiplication of fishes and loaves) of the truth that they are holding in UNrighteousness; unrighteousness = without the knowledge of Christ (knowledge as in Adam KNEW his wife and they were one), "flavoring" (as salt) or rightly dividing the Truth.

Fragments = this is my body which was broken for you (to eat communion worthily, ie. discerning the LORD'S body (which is the Spirit of Christ) within the body of others. Hereafter we'll not know Him after the flesh, but by the Spirit.

When He lowered Himself into His creation everyone got a measure that is revealed to them when they begin to turn toward the Lord and HIS righteousness. This is why it says we can eat of ALL the trees in the garden BUT the one (carnal mind/letter interpretation),and live in the presence of the Tree of life. This is also why it says He hides in the THICK DARKNESS.

BUT: we must be led of the Lord's Spirit in what we "eat" so that He makes it "clean" (Peter rise and eat/after the sheet was RAISED 3 TIMES) for us and distills out of it the portion of the Christ that is hidden in the darkness. Otherwise, if we "eat" without being led of His Spirit to do so, we have been led away of our OWN LUSTS, and "death" is the result. This is the essence of the feast of Tabernacles, in principle, spiritually.

This similarity to the things of God and Christ that exist in ALL things, is why people get dragged down sometimes instead of raised "up", because they ate without being led and therefore it profited them nothing, because we cannot by taking THOUGHT (like Eve, in the appearance realm of what LOOKS GOOD to eat) add one cubit to the measure of Christ. I can "eat" all things, but all things are not expedient (except what and when He would lead me to eat). As many as are led by the SPIRIT, they are the sons of God.

They obtained this corrupted Word (NOT "flavored" with salt) because the soul which is spiritual in nature also, can ascend into the second heaven as well and obtain knowledge; but without the covering that is Christ, it will not produce the life of the Spirit, and depending on the method they choose to "go there" it can literally produce death as well, not just spiritual death. Blessings....

PS. I also wanted to add that in the natural enough salt will kill the yeast (leaven) in bread. In the spiritual application of this truth, knowledge obtained from the Spirit which is Christ, does NOT puff up, as knowledge obtained with the leaven of the carnal mind, DOES. This is why the offerings were salted with salt.

So the admonition against "knowledge puffeth up", has NOTHING to do with knowledge gleaned in the prescribed manner, ie. thru the Spirit of Christ that quickens (raises up) and rightly divides (kneads like bread or clay into the desired form) the Word (bread) of Truth .
« Last Edit: January 27, 2010, 09:41:55 PM by Cardinal »
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline sheila

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3820
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2010, 07:42:15 PM »
  I recommend SOE ch 8, 9,10

   this pertains to the third heaven....I think you will be

  surprised at how it correlates.

        Sheila

Zeek

  • Guest
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #15 on: January 27, 2010, 07:52:02 PM »
  I recommend SOE ch 8, 9,10

   this pertains to the third heaven....I think you will be

  surprised at how it correlates.

        Sheila

what is SOE?

Offline sheila

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3820
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #16 on: January 27, 2010, 07:55:07 PM »
  Hi ZEEK,

   Secrets of Enoch


      Sheila

   

Offline gregoryfl

  • 500
  • *
  • Posts: 547
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #17 on: January 27, 2010, 07:55:27 PM »
Interesting, will have a look.

Ron

Offline Cardinal

  • < Moderator >
  • *
  • Posts: 8431
  • Gender: Female
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2010, 08:00:04 PM »
 :cloud9: PS. And no, I didn't get this from Enoch or any New Age writings; I got it from the Word, ie. the SOURCE of all things. Blessings....
"I would rather train twenty men to pray, than a thousand to preach; A minister's highest mission ought to be to teach his people to pray." -H. MacGregor

Offline lomarah

  • Silver
  • *
  • Posts: 2283
  • Gender: Female
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #19 on: January 31, 2010, 06:52:51 AM »
:cloud9: Well, I'll tell you what was given to me pertaining to why they sometimes have these "visions".........I'm sorry for the depth of this, but there is no other way I can explain it.

At death, we "ascend" or "descend" (think of Jacob's ladder) to whatever glory we have created while here. We were made in the Creator's image and likeness, which means we have creative capabilities as well. This is also why it says, by your OWN wickedness, you'll be reproved.

The soul of man is like a womb, in that it will reproduce whatever seed is planted in it. Christ is the good seed of the kingdom (Matt. 13) and even thought He has been "planted" in the soul of man, if that Seed has not been "tended", "weeded", "watered" and allowed to grow to maturity, then at whatever level of maturity they have attained to spiritually, that is the "garden" they will perceive (still looking thru the glass darkly = darkened soul) UNTIL He comes to "get" them and save them out of their own personal "glory". This is why it says to take care that the light within you is not darkness, ie. mind not renewed by the washing of the Word.

It is NOT permanent, anymore than our state here is permanent. Tears last but for the nighttime of the soul, but in the morning (when the Daystar comes; He is the bright and morning star), joy comes. Is is "real"? It is to them at the time. It's like a bad dream.  Did God create it? NO.

God put Adam to sleep but you can't find anywhere in the OT where He woke him up. The reason is, we are to AWAKE, shake off the dust, ARISE, and Christ will give us light (understanding of the TRUTH, which is not darkness).

Glory is essentially the condition or measure of His Spirit that has been allowed to manifest within the soul of man. Blessings....

Thanks for this post!  :cloud9:
From Him and through Him and to Him are all things.

Offline Universalist Catholic

  • 300
  • *
  • Posts: 405
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #20 on: May 26, 2010, 07:15:40 PM »
If you ask me, it seems like the so called Mysticism is nothing more than another End of the World, Damnation scare that has been portrayed in a way to look all merciful, but I could see right past all of the scare.

Its no different than Mejudgorge.  All advertised as something all sweet, but in reality is just some End of the World scare. 

Offline Nathan

  • Gold
  • *
  • Posts: 3053
  • Gender: Male
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2010, 10:57:31 PM »
Interesting thread you have going here.  For me, to answer the original question, the reason people can have these "visions" is much like the same reasons why a person can have nightmares after watching a scary movie. 

Our minds are a bottomless pit of activity.  Our consciousness shuts down for our bodies to rest, but our subconsciousness continues to be active.  How many times have you had a dream that felt "so real" that you could swear it really was real?  A belief of spiritual things can affect what we see when we sleep.   It can get dangerous when it becomes our focal point of interest.  And for me also, there is the subject of discerning sound and noise. 

Sound may not always make sense, but it is always edifying.  Noise may seem to make sense, but it's merely a distraction from truth. In my opinion, this lady's visions are more noise than sound.

Offline Isaac

  • Reg
  • *
  • Posts: 11
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #22 on: December 18, 2010, 03:07:27 PM »
Sorry to reactivate an old topic, but I may have something interesting to say:

There are a few visions of hell in Catholic tradition and the Church is always keen to point out that visions are figurative and metaphorical often, and are not meant to be literal, current TV pictures, as it were.

So a vision of people in Hell doesn't necessarily mean that this is what is happening right now or even what definitely will happen.

Some Catholic visions of hell even offer hope of UR. For instance, at Fatima, Mary give the three children a vision of hell, but she also gave them a prayer to say which included the line lead all souls to heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.

So, this revelation warns of hell but instructs prayers for UR!

Hilarion Alfeyev - the great Eastern Orthodox Metropolitan - also saw rays of UR hope in Sr. Faustina's visions too.

PaoloNuevo

  • Guest
Re: St Faustinas Vision of Hell
« Reply #23 on: December 18, 2010, 03:15:35 PM »
Folks I promise you the Divine Mercy jesus is a WRONG Jesus and a false christ who preaches purgatory, the idolatrous eucharist and the worship of Mary:

We can rest ASSURED that these "visions" are from Satan in aiding the massive spread of the heresy of Romish faith AND thereby contaminating other sectors of christendom as well...

Jesus said it himself:

Matthew 24:24-29 (New International Version, 2010)

24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

   26 "So if anyone tells you, 'There he is, out in the wilderness,' do not go out; or, 'Here he is, in the inner rooms,' do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.


And to refute Faustina's ghastly fantasies (not hers, but actually visions from the devil):

Isaiah 45:22-24 (New International Version, 2010)

 22 "Turn to me and be saved,
   all you ends of the earth;
   for I am God, and there is no other.
23 By myself I have sworn,
   my mouth has uttered in all integrity
   a word that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow;
   by me every tongue will swear.
24 They will say of me, 'In the LORD alone
   are deliverance and strength.'"
All who have raged against him
   will come to him and be put to shame.