Shut up, again

[NinjaWizards777]

I tried making a diffrent account over at Bible fourms...just to talk about some verses and ask honest questions about them. but the SECOND a moderater suspects a "ultimate reconcilliation" lean to it...BAM they delete the thread and instead "encourage" you to check out their "many other edifing topics"

my question is...if there so right...WHAT are they afraid of? If its so "wrong" and ungodly...blow it out of the water with something to prove. I mean cant we at least talk about what verses mean? Why do people treat christianity like its a dictatorship amoung MEN?

Do we still live under the roman catholic church 1549 or what?

sorry i just needed to rant...

[Cardinal]

Do we still live under the roman catholic church 1549 or what?

  Only if we choose to......sad but true......

[claypot]

I tried making a diffrent account over at Bible fourms...just to talk about some verses and ask honest questions about them. but the SECOND a moderater suspects a "ultimate reconcilliation" lean to it...BAM they delete the thread and instead "encourage" you to check out their "many other edifing topics"

my question is...if there so right...WHAT are they afraid of? If its so "wrong" and ungodly...blow it out of the water with something to prove. I mean cant we at least talk about what verses mean? Why do people treat christianity like its a dictatorship amoung MEN?

Do we still live under the roman catholic church 1549 or what?

sorry i just needed to rant...

NW, I so know where you are at. Hang in there.

Isn't it interesting how we so want to share what we have? It is a burning desire in many of us. To be thwarted by people especially people who claim to want to know the truth is tough to handle.

Can you imagine Jesus trying to get things across to people especially His own disciples? Man He got frustrated. You are in good company NW.

God and His message is so multi faceted. It is seen on so many levels. It seems that one level is all some can handle at any given time. When another level or angle is presented to them it is just too much imput. The only thing I can think of as to why that is, is we all are growing which means we are all at different levels which means we all handle things in different ways.

I know I was at the place where some of those you are trying to talk to are at. In no way could I or would I receive what I take for granted now.

Just my 

cp

[claypot]

Has anyone tried this approach.................This is how I might present myself at a forum like NW is talking about here..................

I might go there and really emphasize how people are going to be tormented. I'd be subtle yet energetic. Start out slow. Don't be obvious. Really zero in on the eternal torment aspect of their teachings. Ya know, how cool it will be, as Jonathan Edwards suggests, to see the suffering of the damned so we can be encouraged and feel good we made the right choice.

Then just keep pushing. Just get to the point where you get them either rejoicing like crazy over people being brought into existence for the purpose of being tormented or where you get them really questioning the sanity of what they really are preaching and teaching.

Then if you are patient and you are to the point of really being a hyper torture em, turn em or burn em kind of guy, then do this..................start questioning them, start saying things like "Man, Brothers, are we really right? I am feeling a bit bad here about feeling so good about so many people being tortured." Start subtly questioning them. Now you are one of them so it may take a while for them to throw you out. When you feel the heat coming too close just go back to preaching with great joy how wonderful God is to know who should be tortured and who should not be and regain your status as one of them.

I could do this, I may do this. I am not always proud of my gift of subtlness and covertness but God hides much and pretends ignorance and often comes to our level to teach us things so I could do this.

cp

[WhiteWings]

Then if you are patient and you are to the point of really being a hyper torture em, turn em or burn em kind of guy, then do this..................start questioning them, start saying things like "Man, Brothers, are we really right?

Or bring up the death of a relative that was an humanitarian but not religious.

[IceDash]

I tried making a diffrent account over at Bible fourms...just to talk about some verses and ask honest questions about them. but the SECOND a moderater suspects a "ultimate reconcilliation" lean to it...BAM they delete the thread and instead "encourage" you to check out their "many other edifing topics"

my question is...if there so right...WHAT are they afraid of? If its so "wrong" and ungodly...blow it out of the water with something to prove. I mean cant we at least talk about what verses mean? Why do people treat christianity like its a dictatorship amoung MEN?

Do we still live under the roman catholic church 1549 or what?

sorry i just needed to rant...

fear, that's all I have for the answer is: fear

They don't want to doubt God for even a second...

[claypot]

I mean it Gang.

To go to a forum or anyone and then bring up an opposing idea you got to know that immediately if not sooner major defenses pop up. What needs to be done is to win their confindence, become one of them, mingle with them, laugh with them, lift up the goodness of God with them and then you might have a chance.

All this can be done above board with no violence done to your conscience. We must be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, not charge like bulls with an agenda!

And I also mean that by really getting them to see what they are preaching by majorly overdoing it, you will get them to take a second look at their beliefs.

Those of you I see here at Tentmaker have so much knowledge and wisdom in handling the Word of God that I hate to see it wasted by charging up to another person or forum in such a way that makes others slap you away like a mosquito before you can share the life message you have.

cp

[NinjaWizards777]

You know the whole subtlety thing is actually really a smart idea. I remember the first couple years of being "saved"...I wanted to tell everyone, I just couldnt shut up about it. I was in middle school...and if i wasnt talking about japanese anime or the girl i liked, i was talking about God like he was coming back tomorrow. I charged onto non christian fourms and debated daily with athiests and agnostics trying to get them to see the truth...I even went on AIM and found random people to talk to about jesus.

and though my fire was good...it didnt take a whole lot of time before I ran out of steam and was just frustrated why no one I had told was coming to any kind of real repetence or wanting much of any connection with God. it happened now and then, but very rarely.

Then as time when on..i realized when i just focused on making good friendships with people ...and then not telling them "why their wrong and why im right"just telling them WHY i believed...they were alot more open.

Maybe thats the key....you shoudlnt be deceptive but...just like when your trying to gain anyones trust or even get a girl to like you...you just gotta start out friendly and slow...intrested...but not too intrested for anyone to catch on.

ive talked too much now but yeah lol

[WhiteWings]

To go to a forum or anyone and then bring up an opposing idea you got to know that immediately if not sooner major defenses pop up.

Is it different on this forum? Where Paul Cohen and Witness ignored?

What needs to be done is to win their confindence, become one of them, mingle with them, laugh with them, lift up the goodness of God with them and then you might have a chance.

You want to go undercover and then let things explode from the inside out.
I doubt Jesus would go undercover at a Parishee meeting place.

All this can be done above board with no violence done to your conscience. We must be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, not charge like bulls with an agenda!

We must also be not asshamed of Jesus.
1 Peter 4:16  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
I'm sure you are not really ashamed of UR; but I wonder if twisting it with good intentions is ashamed in the contex of that verse. Are lies told with good intentions fine according to the Bible?

Those of you I see here at Tentmaker have so much knowledge and wisdom in handling the Word of God that I hate to see it wasted by charging up to another person or forum in such a way that makes others slap you away like a mosquito before you can share the life message you have.

I would like to suggest to you to look who's online several times a day. You will notice that TM has more guests that posters/members. The real question is did other people see your posts. Did they start to think.
Jesus is killed; but before He died; He planted enough seed to let His thoughts live on without Him.

A lie is a lie. Repeat it 100 times and it has become truth. That's basicly how politics works 
Often the truth is see as a lie. But what if we repeat the truth a 100 times?

[claypot]

To go to a forum or anyone and then bring up an opposing idea you got to know that immediately if not sooner major defenses pop up.

Is it different on this forum? Where Paul Cohen and Witness ignored?

What needs to be done is to win their confindence, become one of them, mingle with them, laugh with them, lift up the goodness of God with them and then you might have a chance.

You want to go undercover and then let things explode from the inside out.
I doubt Jesus would go undercover at a Parishee meeting place.

All this can be done above board with no violence done to your conscience. We must be wise as serpents and harmless as doves, not charge like bulls with an agenda!

We must also be not asshamed of Jesus.
1 Peter 4:16  Yet if any man suffer as a Christian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify God on this behalf.
I'm sure you are not really ashamed of UR; but I wonder if twisting it with good intentions is ashamed in the contex of that verse. Are lies told with good intentions fine according to the Bible?

Those of you I see here at Tentmaker have so much knowledge and wisdom in handling the Word of God that I hate to see it wasted by charging up to another person or forum in such a way that makes others slap you away like a mosquito before you can share the life message you have.

I would like to suggest to you to look who's online several times a day. You will notice that TM has more guests that posters/members. The real question is did other people see your posts. Did they start to think.
Jesus is killed; but before He died; He planted enough seed to let His thoughts live on without Him.

A lie is a lie. Repeat it 100 times and it has become truth. That's basicly how politics works 
Often the truth is see as a lie. But what if we repeat the truth a 100 times?

I hear ya WW and good warnings to me and us all. Handling the Word of God is the most dangerous thing I have ever done and do in my life.

As to Jesus going undercover, my experience with Jesus is He is the most undercover Person I know. He spoke in parables for a reason. God Himself hides as much as He reveals. I like to call God, most respectfully, the Divine Fox. It fits Him perfectly.

Who are Paul Cohen and Witness? I truely love opposing ideas. They either strengthen my stand and cause it to crumble and both are helpful to me.

We should never be ashamed of Jesus, I agree!

As to your other comments, I again thank you and I am reminded strongly about being wise as serpents yet harmless as doves. I do not fear offending God. I know He understands me and my ways. I will become all things to all people in order that I may win some. I will experiment to the fullest always seeking our Heavenly Father in these most important matters.

cp

[martincisneros]

Do we still live under the roman catholic church 1549 or what?

That was an interesting year:

Although trade existed between the two beforehand, in this year the Portuguese begins to send regular seasonal maritime trade missions to Ming Dynasty China at Sao João Island (also known as Shangchuan Island) near Macau.

Petrus Canisius starts the Counter-Reformation in Bavaria.

John Rainolds, English scholar and Bible translator was born.

Ogawa Suketada, Japanese warlord was born.

Don Martín García Óñez de Loyola was born in Azpeitia, Guipuscoa and he lived to be a Spanish Basque soldier and Royal Governor of Chile.

Nikola Vitov Gučetić was born. He was a statesman, philosopher, science writer and author of one of the first scientific dissertations regarding speleology.

Princess Elizabeth of Sweden was born.

Pope Paul III died.

Elia Levita, the Yiddish writer died.

Marguerite of Navarre, queen of Henry II of Navarre died.

Daniel Bomberg, the printer, died.

Robert Kett, the English rebel was executed.  His rebellion begain in July of that year, and by December, he was no longer in this world.


Anyway, Jesus said to shake the dust from your feet, didn't He?  Perhaps from your fingers would be more appropriate when you're dealing with an online forum.  Jesus said that if they didn't believe Moses and the prophets, then they wouldn't be convinced by signs and wonders regarding this truth.  He also said that if they've continued in His Words, then they'll continue in yours as well.  So, cast the care of it on the Lord and absolutely refuse to give it another thought until God either opens that door between you and them, or 'til the Lord brings it up at the resurrection. 

Lots of folks that I'm genuinely called to have in my life and to work with would be utterly stunned at the fact that I genuinely and sincerely haven't given them another thought since I [and especially my Words] was rejected.  One of them, it's a little more difficult to do that with and God has to deal with me about letting go on nearly a daily basis.  But really, He shouldn't have to.  Casting all of the pressures on God and giving Him every thought of it, while refusing it to your own imagination [and just continuing to do everything else that He tells you to do in the meantime] opens the door to the Holy Spirit to rush in there and to do what needs to be done.  Otherwise, His work in their lives is a trickle while you're still carrying it and not letting it be on His Cross instead of yours.

[claypot]

You know the whole subtlety thing is actually really a smart idea. I remember the first couple years of being "saved"...I wanted to tell everyone, I just couldnt shut up about it. I was in middle school...and if i wasnt talking about japanese anime or the girl i liked, i was talking about God like he was coming back tomorrow. I charged onto non christian fourms and debated daily with athiests and agnostics trying to get them to see the truth...I even went on AIM and found random people to talk to about jesus.

and though my fire was good...it didnt take a whole lot of time before I ran out of steam and was just frustrated why no one I had told was coming to any kind of real repetence or wanting much of any connection with God. it happened now and then, but very rarely.

Then as time when on..i realized when i just focused on making good friendships with people ...and then not telling them "why their wrong and why im right"just telling them WHY i believed...they were alot more open.

Maybe thats the key....you shoudlnt be deceptive but...just like when your trying to gain anyones trust or even get a girl to like you...you just gotta start out friendly and slow...intrested...but not too intrested for anyone to catch on.

ive talked too much now but yeah lol

NW, you got the spirit of my thoughts. Handling Gods Word is an amazing adventure in and of itself. There are so many ways to communicate it. Our 'flesh' likes to get caught up in the praise and acceptance of people so we get discouraged when our books don't sell or people don't make us Pastors of their churches or we get ignored in any way. As the flesh dies literally and figuratively these fleshly desires die too. Patience and wisdom are good friends to have while waiting!

cp

[WhiteWings]

As to Jesus going undercover, my experience with Jesus is He is the most undercover Person I know. He spoke in parables for a reason.

But the contents/meaning of His parables where 100% correct. Thats different from:

What needs to be done is to win their confindence, become one of them,

Of course you can chat about what a cool guy Jesus is. But punishment/hell/etc is such a big part of the Bible that it's impossible to avoid it more than a handful of verses.

We should never be ashamed of Jesus, I agree!

But you have to if you want to become one of them...
If you play along by saying hell is real etc. aren't you ashamed of Jesus? A better word word be "minimizing".
But I'm sure you get my drift.

As to your other comments, I again thank you and I am reminded strongly about being wise as serpents yet harmless as doves.

Take that back man. Never confess with the devil. I'm just wearing sheepskin...

Claypot, when are you going into the oven to be baked? 

[martincisneros]

BTW NinjaWizard,

Did you know that this dude's growing very, very strong as a Christian? 



Not everybody knows yet, so just asking if you knew.

[claypot]

As to Jesus going undercover, my experience with Jesus is He is the most undercover Person I know. He spoke in parables for a reason.

But the contents/meaning of His parables where 100% correct. Thats different from:

What needs to be done is to win their confindence, become one of them,

Hey WW,   for being free from all men, to all men I made myself servant, that the more I might gain;  20  and I became to the Jews as a Jew, that Jews I might gain; to those under law as under law, that those under law I might gain;  21  to those without law, as without law--(not being without law to God, but within law to Christ) --that I might gain those without law;  22  I became to the infirm as infirm, that the infirm I might gain; to all men I have become all things, that by all means I may save some.  23  And this I do because of the good news, that a fellow-partaker of it I may become; 1cor9.19

Of course you can chat about what a cool guy Jesus is. But punishment/hell/etc is such a big part of the Bible that it's impossible to avoid it more than a handful of verses.

To some people punishment and hell are a big part of the Bible but to me Love is and what it can do.

We should never be ashamed of Jesus, I agree!

But you have to if you want to become one of them...

Please see Pauls words above.

If you play along by saying hell is real etc. aren't you ashamed of Jesus? A better word word be "minimizing".
But I'm sure you get my drift.

Me thinks you are afraid of something here WW. Spill it. You sound like an adversary running scared. Do you think these tactics I am introducing might work?

As to your other comments, I again thank you and I am reminded strongly about being wise as serpents yet harmless as doves.

Take that back man. Never confess with the devil. I'm just wearing sheepskin...

Oh you don't know me that well Brother. I will do what it takes and more to carry out the works of my Lord Jesus Christ, Great Son of the Most High God, our Creator.

Claypot, when are you going into the oven to be baked? 

If I'm not in the oven now then I wonder where I am. Although you could be right, I do feel as if I am so blessed as to seem not real.

cp

[WhiteWings]

If you play along by saying hell is real etc. aren't you ashamed of Jesus? A better word word be "minimizing".
But I'm sure you get my drift.

Me thinks you are afraid of something here WW. Spill it. You sound like an adversary running scared. Do you think these tactics I am introducing might work?

You mean I try to stop you to protect ET?

As to your other comments, I again thank you and I am reminded strongly about being wise as serpents yet harmless as doves.

Take that back man. Never confess with the devil. I'm just wearing sheepskin...

Oh you don't know me that well Brother. I will do what it takes and more to carry out the works of my Lord Jesus Christ, Great Son of the Most High God, our Creator.

Mmm, sounds somewhere something has gone wrong in our communication but I have no clue where.
(unless it links back to teh first quote in this message)

[claypot]

If you play along by saying hell is real etc. aren't you ashamed of Jesus? A better word word be "minimizing".
But I'm sure you get my drift.

Me thinks you are afraid of something here WW. Spill it. You sound like an adversary running scared. Do you think these tactics I am introducing might work?

You mean I try to stop you to protect ET?

As to your other comments, I again thank you and I am reminded strongly about being wise as serpents yet harmless as doves.

Take that back man. Never confess with the devil. I'm just wearing sheepskin...

Oh you don't know me that well Brother. I will do what it takes and more to carry out the works of my Lord Jesus Christ, Great Son of the Most High God, our Creator.

Mmm, sounds somewhere something has gone wrong in our communication but I have no clue where.
(unless it links back to teh first quote in this message)

I may be wrong but I sense something but again I may be wrong. Let's start over. I respect you, WW.

cp

[WhiteWings]

I can tell you, you sensed things wrong. If I believe anything ET is last in the row.
I think you can't even find 1 post on this forum that shows me being an ET.

You want to go undercover and when trusted you start leaking the truth. That your plan; right?
On a forum with 3 members you are known fairly quickly. And on such a forum quoting a hell verse might do the trick. But on a larger forum you need to be high profile to get known (and trusted)
I doubt you can avoid twisting things while getting known. Just like when the a policeman infiltrates the underworld he'll get dirt hands too.
My other point is would Jesus just sit quitetly an listen to twisted interpretations of would He confront them?

My whole point was and still is:
Are lies, bending the truth, holding back the truth permitted to defend the truth?

Let me get this straight I'm not claiming a holier than you are attitude. That's why I wrote "I'm just wearing sheepskin" Not because I'm an undercover ET.

[claypot]

I can tell you, you sensed things wrong. If I believe anything ET is last in the row.
I think you can't even find 1 post on this forum that shows me being an ET.

You want to go undercover and when trusted you start leaking the truth. That your plan; right?

Kind of. I would say right from the start I would be making what they say they believe big as life so it is right out there in front of them. If they believe most are going to hell then let's get out there save em. Let's preach it from the high hills. Let's tell fathers and mothers that their kids are most likely in hell if they obviously didn't measure up. Let's preach it at funerals. Why all the nicey nicey and cover up about hell, let's preach it!!!!!!! if Jesus preached it so openly why don't we???!!!

On a forum with 3 members you are known fairly quickly. And on such a forum quoting a hell verse might do the trick. But on a larger forum you need to be high profile to get known (and trusted)
I doubt you can avoid twisting things while getting known. Just like when the a policeman infiltrates the underworld he'll get dirt hands too.

I'm not afraid to get dirt on my hands. Have before and will again in the service of Christ as I see it.

My other point is would Jesus just sit quitetly an listen to twisted interpretations of would He confront them?

I think He does both. He is a Master at hide and seek, Brother.

My whole point was and still is:
Are lies, bending the truth, holding back the truth permitted to defend the truth?

No. But wisdom is and wisdom dictates many covert things sometimes, not always, but sometimes.

Let me get this straight I'm not claiming a holier than you are attitude. That's why I wrote "I'm just wearing sheepskin" Not because I'm an undercover ET.

Like I said WW, I respect you and I think the feeling's mutual of which I am happy.

Now as to doing as Paul says.....

for being free from all men, to all men I made myself servant, that the more I might gain;  20  and I became to the Jews as a Jew, that Jews I might gain; to those under law as under law, that those under law I might gain;  21  to those without law, as without law--(not being without law to God, but within law to Christ) --that I might gain those without law;  22  I became to the infirm as infirm, that the infirm I might gain; to all men I have become all things, that by all means I may save some.  23  And this I do because of the good news, that a fellow-partaker of it I may become; 1cor9.19

I never said it was easy. As a matter of fact I said it is a very dangerous undertaking to do this but it can be done. Jesus was extremely covert in many ways and still is. He loves us. If we go to others with this same love we can work miracles.

cp

[WhiteWings]

Like I said WW, I respect you and I think the feeling's mutual of which I am happy.

I have no negative feeling about you. If I had the skills I possibly would have done the same

[NinjaWizards777]

BTW NinjaWizard,

Did you know that this dude's growing very, very strong as a Christian? 



Not everybody knows yet, so just asking if you knew.

yep I bought his book a few months back, it was kindof the thing that inspired me to get serious about God again. Just shows how God can really change people for the better

[Cardinal]

  For those of us of another generation, who is this guy? 

[WhiteWings]

http://www.brianheadwelch.net/bio.html

[reFORMer]

I can't imagine anything worse than ceaseless torture for ever.  Since this is what God does, and we are supposed to be imitators of God as dear children, then we are to become torturers also.  He is making us in his image and likeness, so He'll help us, leading us and giving us the opportunity to torture.  I'm wondering if I might get anywhere with that on CARM?  You become like your God!

[martincisneros]

But don't forget, reFORMer, people are getting what they've chosen and what they deserve.  Grace dries up at the grave.  Didn't you know that verse from Isaiah 70:19??