satan is saved?

[NinjaWizards777]

Forgive me if this is already a topic somewhere, but im in and out of this forum too much to know, anyway.

I noticed (and its been this way) any time I talk about UR with someone they like to play the "ARE YOU SAYING SATAN CAN BE SAVED?" as if that somehow trumps Gods all inclusive love. Have yet to understand why people really have a problem with that. they say naturally, that if we take "all in all" in 1 Corinthians 15 to be a literal all that Satan would have to be saved too!

While I dont disagree or necessarily agree (im undecided, I could frankly care less haha), id be interested to know what you think.

Oh and another thing I thought about is if "the last enemy to be destroyed is death" also includes all evil (including satan, if there is no good to be fostered from him), you could *perhaps* make a case that he doesnt necessarily have to be saved, but simply destroyed because there is no good in him and he served Gods purpose(unlike humans)

[Raggedy Anne]

Well, who really has the definitive answer to any such questions?  People can't even agree on who/what Satan is.   My short answer that I conclude is that Satan/Evil/Death is destroyed which is apparently the result of a NEW CREATION when the 'former things' have passed away.   I have come to the conclusion that some things may always be mysterious to our limited minds.   God will do what is right.

Welcome to Tentmaker.

Anne

[aspiring son]

Well, who really has the definitive answer to any such questions?  People can't even agree on who/what Satan is.   My short answer that I conclude is that Satan/Evil/Death is destroyed which is apparently the result of a NEW CREATION when the 'former things' have passed away.   I have come to the conclusion that some things may always be mysterious to our limited minds.   God will do what is right.

Welcome to Tentmaker.

Anne

We know satan is recorded as this

"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in truth, because there is no truth in him. Whe he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it." John 8-44

I agree with Anne. Through the word we have our origins of him, but how God will deal with him when all is said and done?

Eph 2 says he is the prince of the power of the air- a spirit. God will destroy all of the air that is not of him.

"So the Lord God said to the serpent:

Because you have done this, You are cursed more than all cattle,and more than every beast of the field;on your belly shall you go, and you shall eat dust all the days of your life"  Gen 3 14
right now he feeds on dust(or the flesh); what will he feast on when all dust is conquered by the spirit? Perhaps he will starve and die.

Brandon

[WhiteWings]

Forgive me if this is already a topic somewhere, but im in and out of this forum too much to know, anyway.

I noticed (and its been this way) any time I talk about UR with someone they like to play the "ARE YOU SAYING SATAN CAN BE SAVED?" as if that somehow trumps Gods all inclusive love.

Forasmuch, then, as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he, also, Himself, took part of the same, that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death that is, the devil. Heb. 2:14

For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil. I John 3:8

[marie glen]

To me this fits under the verse Colossians 1:20 - New King James Version (NKJV) - "and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."
- And whenever I read Psalm 41:9 (NKJV) "Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted up his heel against me." Which David wrote and Jesus quoted at the last supper as being then fulfilled, I can't help also thinking of God and His once high angel Lucifer..

[micah7:9]

To me this fits under the verse Colossians 1:20 - New King James Version (NKJV) - "and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."
- And whenever I read Psalm 41:9 (NKJV) "Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted up his heel against me." Which David wrote and Jesus quoted at the last supper as being then fulfilled, I can't help also thinking of God and His once high angel Lucifer..

"I can't help also thinking of God and His once high angel Lucifer.."  that is a bogus an assumed speculation, birthed in the imagination of religious theology,  with no biblical proof what so ever. (please do not offer Ezk. 28 or Isa. 14 that IS the exact imagination, assumption within religious theology. There is in not ONE verse of scripture that verifies that theological view, denominational BS.
I for one am weary of the false teaching.

[sheila]

 well the way He reconciled the Heavens was to cast satan out....... there was 'war' in heaven because

  of his presence...Jesus rising was satans falling......he is named the dragon in heaven...

   the original serpent in the garden..the beast when operative..the false prophet where active there..

   satan when abyssed and set free...gog's armies when encamped around/against the camp

  of the Holy city...son of perdition when he entered Judas...offspring of vipers when he dwelt

  in the Pharisees sadducees...man of lawlessness when he entered/slipped in amongst the church


   he is a tool...Father has consistently cut him down to size little by little.God raises the humble/lowly

  and lowers the prideful..as leviathan he is king over all the prideful


 
  thinking he was equal to God but just of another nature..........

   Father made satan of everything He is not..everything that Father rejected is in satan...and will be rejected

  of Him eternally=everlasting cutting off=2nd death[p.s. he was first cutt off from heavens..then earth..

  now...He has shown forth through Adam that bears the image of the corrupt..what happens to corruption

  death/cutoff from life/God.  Judas also showed this..when satan entered him and he took on image

  of son of perdition[liar/theif/satn]  l...proselytesliar/theif is twofold child of hell......

   flesh man that served as examples of this adversarial tool spirit..always showed God's judgement

    it is the same principal as the election of God..before either did anything good or evil..the choice was God's

   I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy....mercy to man through Son to take away..into everlasting

  cutting off..our sins[adversarial opposition to God]

[Lazarus Short]

We can argue this and argue this, but God's Word is fairly silent on the subject.  I will say this much, that OUR salvation as human beings is wholly dependent on the sacrifice of Jesus and His having been born into the human race.  Thus, He is our kinsman and redeemer.  Satan and his host of fallen angels do not share that relationship with God, and cannot, because they do not reproduce, so Jesus cannot become their kinsman/redeemer.  If God is going to save them, it will have to be by other means, unknown to us.

BTW, I believe that all the strange biological probes being done by "aliens" are attempts by demons to insinuate themselves into the human gene pool - a desparate attempt to come under the umbrella of the redeemed kinsmen of Jesus.  It will not work.

[sheila]

WELL IF SATAN AND HIS FALLEN ANGELS 'DO NOT REPRODUCE' THEN WHO ARE THE OFFSPRING OF VIPERS?

  DWELLING IN MEN?   SEDUCING SPIRITS STILL ENTER IN AS SIN IN MANKIND TO THIS VERY TIME

  THAT IS WHY HE SEPERATES US FROM THEM.

   I WILL TELL YOU SOMETHING......WHEN SATAN'S ANGELS DWELT IN HEAVEN THEY WERE IN

  INCORRUPTIBLE BODIES THAT WOULD NOT RESPOND TO EVIL IMPULSES FROM EVIL SPIRIT

......THE NAKED FLESH OF ADAM AND EVE WAS LIKE 'JAILBAIT' TO THIS PERVERTED SPIRIT...

  CAUSING THEM TO LEAVE THEIR HABITATIONS IN HEAVEN[GARMENT OF INCORRUPTION]

  TO CARRY OUT THEIR EVIL LUSTS IN THE FLESH OF MEN..AND BECOME 'ONE' IN UNION

  WITH FLESH OF MAN..SIN IN FLESH CONDEMNED IN ALL MEN........

  TOKOGAE HAS MANKIND JOINED WITH EVIL SPIRIT CONTRAST AT WORK IN FLESH AS SIN

  ADAM 'KNEW" EVE=BECOME ONE FLESH/UNION TO BRING FORTH FRUIT...

   THERE IS ENMITY BETWEEN THE SEED OF THE WOMAN AND OF THE SERPENT

[sheila]

 BECAUSE OF THE ABOVE POST..DEMONS SAY 'I KNOW WHO YOU ARE JESUS,THE HOLY ONE OF GOD,

 DID YOU COME TO TORMENT US BEFORE THE TIME?' AND BECAUSE OF THIS JESUS WOULD SAY

  SUCH THINGS LIKE 'COME OUT OF HIM"..OR SUCH THINGS AS 'YOU OFFSPRING OF VIPERS

  WHO WILL SAVE YOU"

  WE ARE NOT TO JUDGE BY THE APPEARANCE OF THE EYES..BECAUSE THERE ARE THINGS

 IN THE UNSEEN/SPIRITUAL REALM THAT EYES OF MAN HAVE NOT SEEN...AND EARS OF MAN

  HAVE NOT HEARD...BOTH THE GOOD SPIRIT OF GOD AND THE EVIL SPIRIT CONTRAST

[sheila]

AND LAZURUS..THEY HAVE ALREADY 'ABDUCTED' THE FLESH OF MAN........WE KNOW IT AS

  SIN IN THE FLESH..  AND REV 6;16....THEN THE KINGS OF THE EARTH,THE PRINCES

 THE GENERALS THE RICH THE MIGHTY AND EVERY SLAVE AND EVERY FREE MAN HID IN CAVES

  AMONG THE ROCKS OF THE MOUNTAIN.  THEY CALLED  TO THE MOUNTAINS AND THE ROCKS..

  'FALL ON US AND HIDE US FROM THE FACE OF HIM WHO SITS ON THE THRONE AND FROM THE

  WRATH OF THE LAMB!.".THEY WILL HIDE IN PEOPLE'S FLESH.[AS HIDDEN SIN]..THUS IT  IS WISE TO CONFESS

  THESE BEFORE THE THRONE SO JESUS MAY CLEANSE YOU OF THEM.[REPENT]

   THE WRATH OF THE LAMB IS NEVER DIRECTED TOWARD MAN..BUT IS DIRECTED TO THE

  DEMONS AND EVIL SPIRITS THAT DWELL THERE AND ARE KILLING/MURDERING US

   FOR LOVE IS AS STRONG AS DEATH..IT'S JEALOUSY AS UNYEILDING AS THE GRAVE

   I COME THAT THEY MAY HAVE LIFE


   MANY YEARS AGO..IN THE MIDDLE OF THE NIGHT..I WAS AWAKENED BY AN ARGUMENT THAT HAD BECOME

  LOUD..SO LOUD THAT IT WOKE ME UP!!  THERE IS WRITTEN IN THE SCRIPTURE AN ACCOUNT

 CONCERNING MOSES BODY...REGARDING SATAN AND MICHAEL ARGUING OVER IT.......

   I TELL YOU THIS IS A SPIRITUAL TRUTH AND I KNOW IT...ALWAYS THE ENMITY BETWEEN THE SEED

  IS THERE.

   I WAS DELIVERED OF GREAT SPIRITUAL DARKNESS SHORTLY AFTER I HAD THIS HAPPEN..

  INTO THE KINGDOM OF THE LOVE OF THE SON..AND THE SALVATION OF ALL MANKIND

[sheila]

DANIEL 5  THE WRITING ON THE WALL.......V 2 STOLEN TEMPLE VESSELS[GOD MADE MAN FOR

  HIS SPIRIT TO DWELL IN/DO YOU NOT KNOW THAT YOUR BODY IS THE TEMPLE OF THE HOLY SPIRIT

    WHILE BELSHAZZAR WAS DRINKING HIS WINE,HE GAVE ORDERS TO BRING IN THE

 GOLD AND SILVER GOBLETS THAT NEBUCHADDNEZER HIS FATHER HAD TAKEN FROM THE TEMPLE IN

  JERUSALEM. SO THAT THE KING AND HIS NOBLES HIS WIVES AND HIS CONCUBINES MIGHT

  DRINK FROM THEM.  .....AS THEY DRANK THE WINE THEY PRAISED THE GODS OF GOLD SILVER

BRONZE IRON WOOD AND STONE......................

  SUDDENLY THE FINGERS OF A HUMAN HAND APPEARED AND WROTE ON THE PLASTER OF THE WALL

 NEAR THE LAMPSTAND IN THE ROYAL PALACE.........

   MENE MENE TEKEL AND PARSIN......THAT VERY NIGHT BELSHAZZAR KING OF THE BABYLONIANS

  WAS KILLED......

[lomarah]

FOR LOVE IS AS STRONG AS DEATH..IT'S JEALOUSY AS UNYEILDING AS THE GRAVE

 

Your posts blessed me greatly Sheila.

[jabcat]

We can argue this and argue this, but God's Word is fairly silent on the subject.  I will say this much, that OUR salvation as human beings is wholly dependent on the sacrifice of Jesus and His having been born into the human race.  Thus, He is our kinsman and redeemer.  Satan and his host of fallen angels do not share that relationship with God, and cannot, because they do not reproduce, so Jesus cannot become their kinsman/redeemer.  If God is going to save them, it will have to be by other means, unknown to us.

BTW, I believe that all the strange biological probes being done by "aliens" are attempts by demons to insinuate themselves into the human gene pool - a desparate attempt to come under the umbrella of the redeemed kinsmen of Jesus.  It will not work.

Interesting comments.  Including the part about alien probes.  Makes me think;  I wonder if any alien abduction/probing stories have ever included a truly spiritually reborn believer.  Somehow I doubt it, and if so, I believe it would have to have been specifically allowed by God for a specific purpose (re: Job for instance), otherwise, I don't believe they would have that kind of access.  Anyway, just an aside.  I found it interesting.

[Lazarus Short]

Jabcat, according to what I have read, Christians have stopped "aliens" cold by invoking the name of Jesus. 

Sheila, as usual, you write things somewhat difficult to understand, but I appreciate what you say.  Our subject in this thread is a bit beyond our sphere of understanding, and I offer only informed opinions, not Ultimate Truth.

[sheila]

thanks Lazarus, I will work on putting it more plainly.

  you know what I was thinking,guys?  I was thinking that just as God's Holy spirit gives visions of His

  workings with men..that just maybe...the evil contrast tool gives these visions and expierences of his dealings..

  and that just maybe..that is what these 'alien abductions' are all about.

  my little girl had one about the age of 5..........strange phenomena noted a blade of grass run through

  a gourd birdhouse outside her window..was the only 'physical' evidence? other than her telling me

  about it.

[Lazarus Short]

thanks Lazarus, I will work on putting it more plainly.

  you know what I was thinking,guys?  I was thinking that just as God's Holy spirit gives visions of His

  workings with men..that just maybe...the evil contrast tool gives these visions and expierences of his dealings..

  and that just maybe..that is what these 'alien abductions' are all about.

  my little girl had one about the age of 5..........strange phenomena noted a blade of grass run through

  a gourd birdhouse outside her window..was the only 'physical' evidence? other than her telling me

  about it.

There is physical evidence, and I recall something I saw in a photo, much like your blade of grass run through a gourd - straws imbedded in windowpane glass after a tornado.  Normal physics cannot account for things like that.  That said, I believe abductions happen mostly in the spiritual/psychic plane.  The "alien" aspect is a cover story for demonic activity, but most folks buy into it.  Happily, those of us who are covered by the blood of Jesus, are not subject to the "visions and expierences of his dealings" as you say.  It's a good call on your part, for every Godly thing, there is a Satanic counterfeit...

[sheila]

...another thing..she said they looked insect like..a praying mantis...mantis = prophet...and of course

  false prophet comes to mind.

[Lazarus Short]

...another thing..she said they looked insect like..a praying mantis...mantis = prophet...and of course

  false prophet comes to mind.

Scary stuff!  Of course, mantises are predators, so Preying Mantis is as correct as Praying Mantis.  God's Word tells us that Satan prowls as a lion seeking whom he may devour, but one day I realised that the implication is that there are those whom Satan may NOT devour. 

[thinktank]

To me this fits under the verse Colossians 1:20 - New King James Version (NKJV) - "and by Him to reconcile all things to Himself, by Him, whether things on earth or things in heaven, having made peace through the blood of His cross."
- And whenever I read Psalm 41:9 (NKJV) "Even my own familiar friend in whom I trusted, who ate my bread, has lifted up his heel against me." Which David wrote and Jesus quoted at the last supper as being then fulfilled, I can't help also thinking of God and His once high angel Lucifer..

That verse also reminds me of satan, it doesn't necessarily have to be Lucifer, in my opinion Lucifer is not Satan but the antichrist, you heard it here first.

There is also a verse which says about him being led, I simply cannot find it.
But it made me think of why Jesus was so angry at Peter by calling him Satan.
Why, because Satan used  to lead Jesus, and Jesus said, hey Satan you used to lead me for the glory of God, but now you are trying to savour things that be of man.
I was very excited when God showed me this at first, it seemed to click.

[omantodd2000]

Wow there is some interesting things said here. I would offer a bit of advice to put some study into the meaning of the words satan, devil, and lucifer in the bible. As a former believer in a physical satan I can understand how it can be confusing. Lucifer is really nothing more than the morning star and is only used once to refer to a King in the OT. Nothing to do with supernatural being. satan comes from the Hebrew and simply means adversary and can represent anything that opposes. There is no supernatural being called satan and anything that is an adversary can be a satan.  There is no reason for me to go into much detail as there is already plenty of information about these word studies available online from UR believers like E.H. Lake ( and non UR believers like the Christadelphians.  Here is a few links for anyone that is interested and reads this.

http://books.google.com/books?id=mdJ2Oa4h-hgC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://wrestedscripture.com/b07satan/satan.html 

[Molly]

You might call a man 'the prosecutor,' but he's still a man.  The Bible also calls him the nephesh, Lucifer, and leviathan.  The new testament calls him,

...the dragon, that ancient serpent, who is the devil, or Satan..

[and says he is bound for 1000 years.]

I'm just saying, there is a debate about who or what is Satan.

[micah7:9]

We know satan is recorded as this

"You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in truth, because there is no truth in him. Whe he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it." John 8-44 (Aspiring Son)

1Co 15:28  And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

Now ALL is All correct? And we know who satan/devil is and that ALL things will be subdued unto Him.

[eaglesway]

IMO there is way too much speculation about Lucifer/Satan/the adversary that goes on based on a few obscure prophetic verses of scripture that honest minds can read differently. At present we know that whoever he ever was, now he is the father of lies, author of confusion, murderer, ruler of the hosts of wickedness, spirit that works in the sons of disobedience, etc.

 I personally have never seen any scripture that indicates that the adversary evr led Jesus. I agree with Micah tho, one thing we know is that eventually all things will be reconciled, and Colossians pretty clearly defines that as everything He created, everything He is over, everything he came before.....hey, that's evryone and everything!

 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
 
 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation

[micah7:9]

IMO there is way too much speculation about Lucifer/Satan/the adversary that goes on based on a few obscure prophetic verses of scripture that honest minds can read differently. At present we know that whoever he ever was, now he is the father of lies, author of confusion, murderer, ruler of the hosts of wickedness, spirit that works in the sons of disobedience, etc.

 I personally have never seen any scripture that indicates that the adversary evr led Jesus. I agree with Micah tho, one thing we know is that eventually all things will be reconciled, and Colossians pretty clearly defines that as everything He created, everything He is over, everything he came before.....hey, that's evryone and everything!

 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
 
 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior. But now he has reconciled you by Christ's physical body through death to present you holy in his sight, without blemish and free from accusation

Amen. As for Jesus being led by the adversary, nope...Mat 4:1  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.